Ball/Pass Trajectory

[Whammer]

I thought EA said they had worked on ball trajectory? Well I guess they didn't work hard enough. I'll have a WR 10 yds. behind a LB and because the ball is release so low he can easily jump up and swat it.
That doesn't happen in real life. The ball would easily have a trajectory that would keep it out reach of the LB.

Am I overreacting by calling the game broken? I don't think so. This problem makes it almost impossible to have any confidence in passing over the middle. You hesitate and then you almost always get sacked. You start to limit yourself to calling plays that are a little more safe (note- the other plays are only risking because of the faulty trajectory issue).

I just don't know how this crap exists year after year in EA's football games.

[steelerfan]

I get a few knocked down, sure. But, it's usually because I'm hurried or I don't see the defender. When I have time, and see the defender, I can usually put the appropriate amount of touch on it to drop it in.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

[Whammer]

I get a few knocked down, sure. But, it's usually because I'm hurried or I don't see the defender. When I have time, and see the defender, I can usually put the appropriate amount of touch on it to drop it in.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk


Can you explain "touch" to me? Obviously I don't get it. Hard button press for bullet pass and quick tap for a lop. Is there and "In between" press to get more touch?

[ram29jackson]

I get a few knocked down, sure. But, it's usually because I'm hurried or I don't see the defender. When I have time, and see the defender, I can usually put the appropriate amount of touch on it to drop it in.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk


the truth is the trajectory is flawed- what do you mean- appropriate amount of touch ? its not up to you. You either bullet or lob and the AI decides its flight. medium long balls that a QB should be able to through to his receiver over the head of defender always end up at defenders waist

[steelerfan]

I believe there is an in-between. Also, you can use the left stick.

[JBHuskers]

I believe there is an in-between. Also, you can use the left stick.

Exactly...if you combo a tap of the button with down on the left stick, that might help...I haven't tried it yet....but it might help you out.

[BCEagles]

I used to have the same problem it irritated me to the point that I would focus my offense on the running game, I use steelerfan's technique and put touch on it. Also try running routes where your runningback goes out to the left or right. If the D is in man coverage or a certain zone they will go out and follow the runningback leaving the middle open for a pass. Also, try running more out routes to your receivers and outside handoffs to the hb. If you do this enough the cpu will spread their lb's making a pass over the middle much easier. I would not reccomend the last idea but it is worth trying. Finally, yes this does happen in real life, I am a starting middle linebacker for my high school and about 3 times a game a qb will not put enough touch on the ball and I will either intercept it or tip it in another direction. I also notice this happens quite frequently in college football. (not so much the nfl unless alex smith is your qb.)

[skipwondah33]

I thought EA said they had worked on ball trajectory? Well I guess they didn't work hard enough. I'll have a WR 10 yds. behind a LB and because the ball is release so low he can easily jump up and swat it.
That doesn't happen in real life. The ball would easily have a trajectory that would keep it out reach of the LB.

Am I overreacting by calling the game broken? I don't think so. This problem makes it almost impossible to have any confidence in passing over the middle. You hesitate and then you almost always get sacked. You start to limit yourself to calling plays that are a little more safe (note- the other plays are only risking because of the faulty trajectory issue).

I just don't know how this crap exists year after year in EA's football games.

Same type of issue for me as I posted about it in the Impressions thread.

Trajectory has been a problem for sometime. People mistake it for LB's having super jumping ablity but its not that the ball just sails too low. There is no medium other than to hope the LB isn't in position or there is no defender over top so you can just lob 10 yards more than you have to.

[ram29jackson]

Exactly...if you combo a tap of the button with down on the left stick, that might help...I haven't tried it yet....but it might help you out.


um..which down..down forward or down backward- down towards me or down away from me ?

[I OU a Beatn]

Agreed, trajectory on anything beyond 15 yards or so is way too low. I've tried directional passing with the left stick and I've tried all kinds of pressure when pressing the receiver button, but it's pretty much the same result. It definitely needs to be tweaked.

[FedEx227]

I've found it happening quite often. I can't say all my passes are perfect but it does seem the ball sails far too low and LBs have an easy opportunity to swat it down. I've never really used the LS perhaps I'll try that.

[skipwondah33]

I use the directional pass stick on every throw I make, but I have tried without it to no avail. I've tried light pressure, medium pressure, full pressue...same result. Its a hit a miss type thing it seems but it is being magnified due to zone coverage being improved with players in their correct spots. This was an issue back on the 08 and 09 versions when zone and interceptions were king.

The trajectory only gets worse if you have a user who knows how to manual strafe catch interceptions. I've been able to cut off passes intended for WR's 20 yards behind me in both NCAA and Madden due to this.

[ram29jackson]

I use the directional pass stick on every throw I make, but I have tried without it to no avail. I've tried light pressure, medium pressure, full pressue...same result. Its a hit a miss type thing it seems but it is being magnified due to zone coverage being improved with players in their correct spots. This was an issue back on the 08 and 09 versions when zone and interceptions were king.

The trajectory only gets worse if you have a user who knows how to manual strafe catch interceptions. I've been able to cut off passes intended for WR's 20 yards behind me in both NCAA and Madden due to this.

uuuuu youre eeeviill

[umhester04]

Yeah I agree. Can this even be fixed with a patch? Also on the thread over at OS about super human linebackers someone posted a video of i think it was an Oregon linebacker running to the left of the screen and the user had a reciever running a slant behind the guy about 5 yards and also 5 yards deeper down the field and once he throws the ball the linebacker just jumps backwards and levitates a few yards and knocks the pass down. I believed everybody saying that the super human LB's were gone until I saw that. WOW

[jaymo76]

Agreed, trajectory on anything beyond 15 yards or so is way too low. I've tried directional passing with the left stick and I've tried all kinds of pressure when pressing the receiver button, but it's pretty much the same result. It definitely needs to be tweaked.

It needed to be tweaked in 07 and we're still waiting. It's downright awful that this still plagues the game. I just had four blocks by Tulane today. LB ten yards down the field five feet in the air.Pretty much every law of physics gets violated by EA sports linebackers!

[morsdraconis]

Sliders fix everything that you are having an issue with.

Also, if you think the ball trajectory is incorrect, you know absolutely nothing about physics, aerodynamics, and the strength required to throw a 20-25 yard pass higher than 7-8 feet in the air.

LBs that are knocking down these passes are simply doing what any defender would do in zone coverage. They're watching the QB's eyes, timing their jumps, and swatting down the ball. The reason why you don't see it in real life most of the time? Because QBs in real life don't throw dumb ass passes into coverage.

I've played 10+ games since Tuesday and have had probably 3 LBs swat down a pass like you're talking about and I throw the ball anywhere from 25-60 times a game (depending on what offense I'm running).

[ram29jackson]

..I just hate how the deep ball looks in general..you tap the button and its like,..boom, it just disappears at the top of the screen :D where the hell did it go ? and then once in a while it comes down to a receiver on the sidelines doing his matrix body contort,super balance, sideline catch:fp:

[steelerfan]

The reason why you don't see it in real life most of the time? Because QBs in real life don't throw dumb ass passes into coverage.

Well said.

[AustinWolv]

LB ten yards down the field five feet in the air.
I'd like to see a screenshot of that. Feet are 60" off the ground, awesome.

Feel free to debate the link if someone has a different opinion of basic measurements: http://www.thegamingtailgate.com/forums/showthread.php?2522-NCAA-Football-12-Demo-Share-Your-Impressions&p=73104&viewfull=1#post73104

[steelerfan]

I'd like to see a screenshot of that. Feet are 60" off the ground, awesome.

+1

[ram29jackson]

Sliders fix everything that you are having an issue with.

Also, if you think the ball trajectory is incorrect, you know absolutely nothing about physics, aerodynamics, and the strength required to throw a 20-25 yard pass higher than 7-8 feet in the air.

LBs that are knocking down these passes are simply doing what any defender would do in zone coverage. They're watching the QB's eyes, timing their jumps, and swatting down the ball. The reason why you don't see it in real life most of the time? Because QBs in real life don't throw dumb ass passes into coverage.

I've played 10+ games since Tuesday and have had probably 3 LBs swat down a pass like you're talking about and I throw the ball anywhere from 25-60 times a game (depending on what offense I'm running).

no, its because real life linebackers dont jump 3 ft in the air

[griffin2608]

As far as the ball movement and path it is flawed but there is ways to improve your ball placement. The buttons and stick are pressure sensitive. If you quickly tap the button you will have an over done, inaccurate lob, if you hold the button down the entire time the qb is in the windup through the release you will have a very hard inaccurate bullet ( depending on the qbs acc ). If you press the button and release between the two extremes you will have a accurate pass depending on the target. The stick works the same way, if you barely move the stick in the direction you want to go you will not have much effect, if you hold the stick to the farthest extreme you will have a over or under thrown pass. You can call it broken if you want to or you can go into practice mode and try it for yourself. You will be surprised. I was.

[jaymo76]

I'd like to see a screenshot of that. Feet are 60" off the ground, awesome.

Feel free to debate the link if someone has a different opinion of basic measurements: http://www.thegamingtailgate.com/forums/showthread.php?2522-NCAA-Football-12-Demo-Share-Your-Impressions&p=73104&viewfull=1#post73104

I appreciate your argument... BUT... you have neglected a key set of variables... SPEED and VELOCITY of the ball. I don't disagree that an LB can jump and snag the ball. However, use the baseball example: a pitcher throws the ball... just because you are at the plate and swing the bat does not mean you will make contact. You almost never see these types of blocks in high school/community/college etc because all of the variables put together don't often add up. However, I do appreciate the mertis of your theory.

[Whammer]

The reason why you don't see it in real life most of the time? Because QBs in real life don't throw dumb ass passes into coverage.



I don't consider it coverage when my player is 10 yards beyond the LB. Do you? That's an open man in my book.

[skipwondah33]

Sliders fix everything that you are having an issue with.

Also, if you think the ball trajectory is incorrect, you know absolutely nothing about physics, aerodynamics, and the strength required to throw a 20-25 yard pass higher than 7-8 feet in the air.

LBs that are knocking down these passes are simply doing what any defender would do in zone coverage. They're watching the QB's eyes, timing their jumps, and swatting down the ball. The reason why you don't see it in real life most of the time? Because QBs in real life don't throw dumb ass passes into coverage.

I've played 10+ games since Tuesday and have had probably 3 LBs swat down a pass like you're talking about and I throw the ball anywhere from 25-60 times a game (depending on what offense I'm running).

I would personally not want to bother with hundreds of different slider combinations to make the game what it should already be out of the box IMO of course..."if it's in the game..it's in the game"...oops my bad "It's in the game".

Every pass I throw isn't in coverage. I admit some should be batted down. The ones I'm upset about are actually to WIDE open targets without any defenders within range but an LB who is 15-20 yards in front of him. If there is a whole bunch of Brian Urlacher's with the awareness of Ray Lewis in college right now then hey I have nothing to say but that isn't the case. And a reason you don't see it in real life is because players have limitations, they can't perform like computers and have perfectly time twitch reflexes. Their actual movements are based on height and weight..and above all else a skill set.

I will go back to what I posted in the Impressions thread that batting down a ball at the LOS or anywhere else like the LB position takes a few factors. Height, jumping ability, timing, type of throw and awareness. It appears in this game though that more times than not the CPU possess all of these regardless their size and skill set. I'm not a physics or aerodynamic expert by any means but I know that a 6'-0" DT who is 6 yards away from my 6'-3" QB throwing a pass intended 25 yards downfield shouldn't be able to bat the ball down....not to mention he was getting blocked by two lineman and had another DT time his jump EXACTLY the same time as the other.

The ones that should be batted down aren't batted down. I had a game against Oneback where his safety was in position to bat a ball down with ease, he actually could have picked as he was just sitting there waiting for the route and the ball. His safety goes into this 4 foot leap forward and swat animation for no reason at all thus letting the ball sail right over his head.

In the end its a computer program, not actual football players. I get it and have to enjoy it as such just wanted to air my concern as a fellow purchaser of the product.

[JBHuskers]

...in all honestly setting up a set of sliders takes less than five minutes to do.

[Dr Death]

Sliders fix everything that you are having an issue with.


LBs that are knocking down these passes are simply doing what any defender would do in zone coverage. They're watching the QB's eyes, timing their jumps, and swatting down the ball. The reason why you don't see it in real life most of the time? Because QBs in real life don't throw dumb ass passes into coverage.


In defense of the OP, I will respectfully disagree w/ the bolded part. I'm sure there are those who throw dumb passes... ie; Ben Haumiller, but I am someone who knows how to read a defense and knows when and where to make the throw and I still am seeing this stuff. Not as prevalent as '11, but when I am in 5-Wide, and my inside WR on the Trips side runs a post pattern and is 20 yards downfield and the LB is 8 yards beyond the line of scrimmage, and I hit UP {away from me} on the left stick and the LBer still jumps up and swats the pass down, it's not reflective of me throwing a dumb pass.

The D was in Cover-2 and my guy was wide open, I threw just as he was turning into the post part of the route... it should have gained at least 30 yards... but that LBer looked like Superman.

I'll see if I can diagram this:

.................................................. .........................{WR}

............................FS.................... ............................................SS

.................................................. .................................................. ...........

.................................................. .........MLB...................................... ............

...CB..................CB................DE....... ..DT........DT..........DE..................CB.... ..CB

...WR.....................................LT...... LG......C.....RG.....RT......WR................... ........
.........................WR....................... .................................................. ..WR......WR

.................................................. .............QB

Now picture the WR in red running straight to the SS and then hitting the post route... there is no way the MLB should be able to swat/bat that ball down. The red WR at the top, beyond the FS/SS is where the guy was at when I threw the ball.

So... while I agree that there are a lot of people that throw dumb passes, even when you have the perfect play-call against the perfect defense, and "try" to throw the ball w/ loft, the Leaping LBer still is present.

So far, playing 4 games on Heisman and 3 games on Steelerfan's sliders, I have thrown 2 interceptions and I throw 55-70 passes a game. MY QB's usually are in the 70-77% range on completion percentage. I use a lot of short throws, but when things like the play above gets blown up by someone who is in no position to make that play, it does get very frustrating.

[umhester04]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0Ydz7QlDGQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=67s

Check that out at the 1:07 mark.

The LB doesnt jump he just flails (check the replay at about the 1:29 mark). The WR is about 5 yards behind the LB, plus maybe another yard or 2 to the side. The trajectory on this ball is not a bullet pass and it is also not a lob. Also keep in mind the WR catches it in the stomach area.


In NCAA this is swatted into the 3rd row of the stands.


EDIT: he does "jump" I guess but his feet barely come off the ground. Its more like a hop and a stretch at the ball. He just doesn't jump like he is jumping on a trampoline.

[skipwondah33]

...in all honestly setting up a set of sliders takes less than five minutes to do.
True but then I'll feel that the CPU is being slighted. I'd rather just put it on the hardest difficulty and play. Then you have the CPU rush is getting in extrememly fast so you drop that slider a bit. Then its their QB is on point and having all day to throw then you have to drop those sliders. Then now its too easy to pick off the CPU and get pressure on him so you up the sliders back. Now the your defenders are dropping interceptions left and right while the CPU is catching everything put up in the air....you see what I'm getting it.

I've heard of people putting in very hard work for sliders and getting them just right. Its why when someone does nearly everyone uses them.

And the last thing I'll add to this game vs real life scenario. When is the last time you've seen a QB throw a perfect pass from one sideline to the other 25-30 yards downfield to a WR running the opposite direction? I'm sure there will be some highlight of it happening but not very frequently lol

[AustinWolv]

I appreciate your argument... BUT... you have neglected a key set of variables... SPEED and VELOCITY of the ball. I don't disagree that an LB can jump and snag the ball. However, use the baseball example: a pitcher throws the ball... just because you are at the plate and swing the bat does not mean you will make contact. You almost never see these types of blocks in high school/community/college etc because all of the variables put together don't often add up. However, I do appreciate the mertis of your theory.

I don't disagree that the reaction/awareness of the defenders in the NCAA series is off-base. That wasn't what the point was. The point was people claiming LBs super-jump 5ft or whatever, that the ball should be so high in the air....no way a LB could get to it, and all that. I disagree on the measurements, heights, etc.

I don't disagree that the reaction and awareness of a defender all of a sudden changing course or jumping backwards to get at a ball is suspect. But that isn't what was being discussed earlier and not what my response was addressing.


SPEED and VELOCITY of the ball
Sure, if something is going fast enough, it could go through an obstacle. That isn't going to happen with a football constrained to the constraints of human physiology.
Again, the measurements I laid out are just fine and do exist. It is the reaction time and awareness of the defenders that are off, as the ball velocity is probably modeled ok. (haven't ever tried to estimate it in the gameplay)

Speed and velocity are the same thing when applied to a football since they don't stop in mid-air and change directions. While they have different meanings since velocity is vector-based, they are same in every day use for practical purposes. Velocity is just speed with a specific direction.


This post touches upon that point IMO of reaction time/awareness of the defender with the example NFL game shown:

The LB doesnt jump he just flails (check the replay at about the 1:29 mark). The WR is about 5 yards behind the LB, plus maybe another yard or 2 to the side. The trajectory on this ball is not a bullet pass and it is also not a lob. Also keep in mind the WR catches it in the stomach area.

Right, that LB looks physically capable of getting to that ball. However, human reaction time and awareness make that not feasible when weighed against the player's momentum in whatever direction he was going, the velocity of the pass, etc. It doesn't have to do with his height, his jumping ability, length of arms, how high the ball was, etc.........because it definitely looks like he is capable of obstructing the path of that pass. Where the game has it wrong is his awareness and reaction time to get in position to get to that ball.

[griffin2608]

Agreed that there should be way more jumps and misses and there are super jumping lb's in the game, I have seen them but with a good set of sliders (steelerfan) and practice placing the ball I squeeze that ball in there more often than not. I use temple and last night I had 3 beautifully placed balls that were caught. If I get some more gaming in tonight I'll try to post some pics. Another thing that seems to help me is I don't pass a ton. I run a balanced offense and the game will adjust to remain competive (ex. Super lbs) when you are throwing all over the field over and over again.

I would personally not want to bother with hundreds of different slider combinations to make the game what it should already be out of the box IMO of course..."if it's in the game..it's in the game"...oops my bad "It's in the game".

Every pass I throw isn't in coverage. I admit some should be batted down. The ones I'm upset about are actually to WIDE open targets without any defenders within range but an LB who is 15-20 yards in front of him. If there is a whole bunch of Brian Urlacher's with the awareness of Ray Lewis in college right now then hey I have nothing to say but that isn't the case. And a reason you don't see it in real life is because players have limitations, they can't perform like computers and have perfectly time twitch reflexes. Their actual movements are based on height and weight..and above all else a skill set.

I will go back to what I posted in the Impressions thread that batting down a ball at the LOS or anywhere else like the LB position takes a few factors. Height, jumping ability, timing, type of throw and awareness. It appears in this game though that more times than not the CPU possess all of these regardless their size and skill set. I'm not a physics or aerodynamic expert by any means but I know that a 6'-0" DT who is 6 yards away from my 6'-3" QB throwing a pass intended 25 yards downfield shouldn't be able to bat the ball down....not to mention he was getting blocked by two lineman and had another DT time his jump EXACTLY the same time as the other.

The ones that should be batted down aren't batted down. I had a game against Oneback where his safety was in position to bat a ball down with ease, he actually could have picked as he was just sitting there waiting for the route and the ball. His safety goes into this 4 foot leap forward and swat animation for no reason at all thus letting the ball sail right over his head.

In the end its a computer program, not actual football players. I get it and have to enjoy it as such just wanted to air my concern as a fellow purchaser of the product.

[I OU a Beatn]

Sliders fix everything that you are having an issue with.

Not online it doesn't. Besides, the only thing sliders do is make the defenders less aware, or dumber. Whichever phrase you want to use. It doesn't change the fact the ball is thrown way too low on anything over 10 yards or so. I said this during the demo and I don't see that anything has been changed.


The reason why you don't see it in real life most of the time? Because QBs in real life don't throw dumb ass passes into coverage.


Well said.

I don't know whether to give you guys :D, :smh:, or :fp:. You guys either simply do not understand the issue here(I don't see how you couldn't) or you're simply choosing to not notice it, which I'd say is the issue.

I can't speak for everyone else, but I know where I can fit passes into and I know where I can't. That's not the problem. The problem is that the ball is thrown so unrealistically low that Linebackers are able to make plays they have no business being able to make. I mean, if you HONESTLY believe a LB 10 yards off the line of scrimmage should be able to tip a pass that is thrown 20+ yards down the field, then :D:D:D:D:D.

[AustinWolv]

OU, I wonder if it has to do with button sensitivity/tuning as I swear I'm seeing different results sometimes.......I've hit those deep middle passes just fine where the receiver is truly much deeper than the LB (people complaining about the receiver being only 5-10 yards past the LB and being mad that the LB can reach the pass don't count), but I have seen a couple instances of having the ball knocked down by a LB also. I remember thinking the pass trajectory looked different. If I can get examples, I'll try to take video as time permits.

[souljahbill]

I think trajectory is a problem also. I don't think there are super LBs anymore but it doesn't seem like you can go behind the LB and in front of the safeties like you should. The LBs in the game knock down far more passes via swat then what happens in real life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[skipwondah33]

OU, I wonder if it has to do with button sensitivity/tuning as I swear I'm seeing different results sometimes.......I've hit those deep middle passes just fine where the receiver is truly much deeper than the LB (people complaining about the receiver being only 5-10 yards past the LB and being mad that the LB can reach the pass don't count), but I have seen a couple instances of having the ball knocked down by a LB also. I remember thinking the pass trajectory looked different. If I can get examples, I'll try to take video as time permits.

When I speak about it I'm not saying its an every down, every throw type deal. Its time where it doesn't happen BUT at the sametime it happens more than it should. And I'm not just saying more times than I personally think it should but realistically more times than it should across the board regardless if I am facing an LB from Alabama versus an LB from Akron.

[morsdraconis]

no, its because real life linebackers dont jump 3 ft in the air

Yeah they do.

Just this past year, at the combine, there were 8 LBs that jumped 35.5" or higher in the Vertical Leap workout, and that's flatfooted with no momentum at all. Hell, the top performer was Rocky McIntosh from 2006 with a 42.5" vertical.

[AustinWolv]

I think trajectory is a problem also. I don't think there are super LBs anymore but it doesn't seem like you can go behind the LB and in front of the safeties like you should. The LBs in the game knock down far more passes via swat then what happens in real life.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And as I mentioned earlier, I think that has to do with awareness/reaction time, not trajectory. The measurements examples don't add up to it being about the ball being over a LB's reach, but examples shown earlier indicate that game LBs are simply able to magically react faster than real humans can.

[morsdraconis]

In defense of the OP, I will respectfully disagree w/ the bolded part. I'm sure there are those who throw dumb passes... ie; Ben Haumiller, but I am someone who knows how to read a defense and knows when and where to make the throw and I still am seeing this stuff. Not as prevalent as '11, but when I am in 5-Wide, and my inside WR on the Trips side runs a post pattern and is 20 yards downfield and the LB is 8 yards beyond the line of scrimmage, and I hit UP {away from me} on the left stick and the LBer still jumps up and swats the pass down, it's not reflective of me throwing a dumb pass.

The D was in Cover-2 and my guy was wide open, I threw just as he was turning into the post part of the route... it should have gained at least 30 yards... but that LBer looked like Superman.

I'll see if I can diagram this:

.................................................. .........................{WR}

............................FS.................... ............................................SS

.................................................. .................................................. ...........

.................................................. .........MLB...................................... ............

...CB..................CB................DE....... ..DT........DT..........DE..................CB.... ..CB

...WR.....................................LT...... LG......C.....RG.....RT......WR................... ........
.........................WR....................... .................................................. ..WR......WR

.................................................. .............QB

Now picture the WR in red running straight to the SS and then hitting the post route... there is no way the MLB should be able to swat/bat that ball down. The red WR at the top, beyond the FS/SS is where the guy was at when I threw the ball.

So... while I agree that there are a lot of people that throw dumb passes, even when you have the perfect play-call against the perfect defense, and "try" to throw the ball w/ loft, the Leaping LBer still is present.

So far, playing 4 games on Heisman and 3 games on Steelerfan's sliders, I have thrown 2 interceptions and I throw 55-70 passes a game. MY QB's usually are in the 70-77% range on completion percentage. I use a lot of short throws, but when things like the play above gets blown up by someone who is in no position to make that play, it does get very frustrating.

Well, playing on Heisman is your problem right there. Heisman cheats. Plain and simple.

[morsdraconis]

And as I mentioned earlier, I think that has to do with awareness/reaction time, not trajectory. The measurements examples don't add up to it being about the ball being over a LB's reach, but examples shown earlier indicate that game LBs are simply able to magically react faster than real humans can.

Thank you.

It is NOT the trajectory of the ball NOR how high the players leap in the game. It's ALL about the awareness/reaction time of the players to the ball in flight, which can very simply be fixed with sliders.

For those of you that are playing online random games, well, you're playing against retards 95% of the time anyway so I don't know why you're still complaining about these things when you subject yourself to 4 Verts all day every game.

[psuexv]

no, its because real life linebackers dont jump 3 ft in the air

Actually the good ones jump over 3ft. :D

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#year=2011&workout=VERTICAL_JUMP&position=QB-RB-WR-TE-S-DL-CB-OL-SPEC

[AustinWolv]

Hey mors, on a sidenote, Heisman plays really good right out of the box this year. I don't feel that cheat stuff at all like in '10 and earlier. '11 wasn't too bad IMO, but will still suspect on some stuff, but Heisman in '12 so far has me really impressed.


Yeah they do.

Just this past year, at the combine, there were 8 LBs that jumped 35.5" or higher in the Vertical Leap workout, and that's flatfooted with no momentum at all. Hell, the top performer was Rocky McIntosh from 2006 with a 42.5" vertical.
Damn straight, glad you guys chimed in with that.
In that measurements example post I linked to earlier, I had actually downplayed a real LB's ability and only assumed 12" due to being off-balance or what have you (and that is fairly supported by the video to the Colts/Jags game linked earlier) but that goes to show that human LBs are very capable of knocking down passes from a pure measurements standpoint.
As you were helping to lay out..........it is about awareness and reaction time.

[JBHuskers]

Thank you.

It is NOT the trajectory of the ball NOR how high the players leap in the game. It's ALL about the awareness/reaction time of the players to the ball in flight, which can very simply be fixed with sliders.

For those of you that are playing online random games, well, you're playing against retards 95% of the time anyway so I don't know why you're still complaining about these things when you subject yourself to 4 Verts all day every game.

:nod: times :infinity:

[JBHuskers]

Hey mors, on a sidenote, Heisman plays really good right out of the box this year. I don't feel that cheat stuff at all like in '10 and earlier. '11 wasn't too bad IMO, but will still suspect on some stuff, but Heisman in '12 so far has me really impressed.

Hmmmmmmm....may have to try to give it a fair shake. In the past eff no. AA + sliders were always good for me.

In all honesty, the "the game shouldn't have to have sliders used" line is kinda hollow when it fixes your issues....

[morsdraconis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0Ydz7QlDGQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=67s

Check that out at the 1:07 mark.

The LB doesnt jump he just flails (check the replay at about the 1:29 mark). The WR is about 5 yards behind the LB, plus maybe another yard or 2 to the side. The trajectory on this ball is not a bullet pass and it is also not a lob. Also keep in mind the WR catches it in the stomach area.


In NCAA this is swatted into the 3rd row of the stands.


EDIT: he does "jump" I guess but his feet barely come off the ground. Its more like a hop and a stretch at the ball. He just doesn't jump like he is jumping on a trampoline.

Again, it's all about awareness and not how high the LB is jumping. LBs in NCAA are jumping before the ball even get's close to where they are because they know where it's going right as the ball leaves the QB's hand. That's the problem. Not how high they jump, the trajectory of the ball, or anything else.

[I OU a Beatn]

It has nothing to do with awareness. The reason why mors and steelers aren't seeing it is because of the awareness. I haven't looked at the sliders, but if you guys aren't seeing it, then the sliders have basically dumbed down the awareness of the defenders. That's the way EA's sliders work. When you lower awareness, the LB simply will choose not to jump. However, with default sliders(which is not optional for online play) they don't have that programming. They're basically programmed to go for everything they can get their hands on.

So in that situation, they get their hands on it because the ball is thrown way too low. This isn't some new issue. This has been an issue with just about every game I've played this generation, but it's way worse this year. Is it an every down thing? No, but it happens entirely too often. This isn't the super human LB issue, either. The jump appears to be realistic to me. The problem is the ball being thrown too low. If I really have to waste my time and effort to capture several instances of this, I can. Of course, that would be a huge waste of my time since other excuses would be made when it's blatantly obvious the ball is thrown too low in several situations.

[I OU a Beatn]

In all honesty, the "the game shouldn't have to have sliders used" line is kinda hollow when it fixes your issues....

It's not hollow. If EA were to put sliders in the online portion of the game then it'll be hollow. Until then, it's a legitimate complaint that the only way to get the game to function correctly in this aspect is to use sliders, which is something online players can't do.

[Sven Draconian]

Ball trajectory is fine. If you can't time the throw, that's your own problem. Adding lob to a pass, or holding it a second to change the angle is part of passing. You can just throw a bullet over a LB's head and expect them not to do anything.

Are some of the animations ugly? Yes (especially the back to the ball jump swat), but that doesn't make the result wrong. It just means they need to change up their animations .

[Dr Death]

Well, playing on Heisman is your problem right there. Heisman cheats. Plain and simple.

You'll note that I have played 3 games w/ Steelerfan's AA sliders... the play I diagrammed was in a game w/ those sliders.

[JBHuskers]

It's not hollow. If EA were to put sliders in the online portion of the game then it'll be hollow. Until then, it's a legitimate complaint that the only way to get the game to function correctly in this aspect is to use sliders, which is something online players can't do.

Kinda gives me an idea....an online lobby that uses custom sliders for the host. Granted I'm sure someone has come up with that idea along the way.

[AustinWolv]

LBs in NCAA are jumping before the ball even get's close to where they are because they know where it's going right as the ball leaves the QB's hand. That's the problem. Not how high they jump, the trajectory of the ball, or anything else.
And to that point, I think it applies to safeties as well. On Heisman at least, I had a safety in dead man's decision as he was split between covering a post and a corner route on the same side of the field. No CB help as he was playing the short zone/flats. Safety turned his shoulders towards the sideline and started drifting outside following the corner route, so I threw the post and damn if he didn't immediately turn back inside, cover the ground, and get the INT. I call shenanigans.


Hmmmmmmm....may have to try to give it a fair shake. In the past eff no. AA + sliders were always good for me.

In all honesty, the "the game shouldn't have to have sliders used" line is kinda hollow when it fixes your issues....
Historically, I'm a Heisman guy but always dumbed down CPU sliders on Heisman and bumped human, pretty much what most Heisman guys do. Even with difficult AA sliders, AA has been easy for me, and the game played flat/muted with AA sliders hard enough to make it a challenge. Usually, by this time, I'm driving myself nuts messing with sliders, but I haven't touched anything until last night when I bumped pass block to 60 on human. However, that isn't the game's fault. That is my fault for thinking too arcadey and thinking I should have time to hit 20 yard routes on 3rd and longs which is BS by me, as well as not yet practicing enough to know the routes for my playbook. Not sure what AA is doing this year, but the ball needs to be gone in 4 seconds, just like Sports Science showed is realistic for NFL QBs. I actually think that human pass block could go back down to 50, but CPU pass awareness should be dropped per this very thread is my thinking as the coverage is damn good so a lot of times, it sure seems like 4 seconds isn't enough......

[AustinWolv]

It has nothing to do with awareness. The reason why mors and steelers aren't seeing it is because of the awareness. I haven't looked at the sliders, but if you guys aren't seeing it, then the sliders have basically dumbed down the awareness of the defenders.
I'm not using sliders, I'm at default settings. My opinion is that the pass awareness likely NEEDS to be dumbed down. The ball trajectory height, until someone decides to post field level video/screenshots of the game and real human passers, is not the problem.

My opinion is you are wrong, and the measurements example that I linked to earlier in the thread diagrams it out (well, types it out since there aren't pictures) for humans. Does the game correlate the ball height to within 12" of what a ball would do in real life? Don't know yet. Time to watch replays, I guess.

[I OU a Beatn]

Kinda gives me an idea....an online lobby that uses custom sliders for the host. Granted I'm sure someone has come up with that idea along the way.

It kind of presents a nightmare scenario for EA Sports, which is I'm sure why we don't have anything like that yet. I think Tuner Sets are kind of their idea for sliders for online play, but I don't see how they would monitor things if people could use their custom sliders online.

[I OU a Beatn]

Took all of 30 seconds in practice to replicate it:

http://i55.tinypic.com/axhdly.jpg

Post route thrown against cover 2 with just a slight press of the button and directional stick up and to the right to lead the receiver. The LB who is approximately 13 yards in front of where the ball should be thrown, EASILY gets his paws on the ball.

[I OU a Beatn]

Same picture, better angle:

http://i54.tinypic.com/35j02kw.jpg

I mean, look at that! The ball is clearly going down, in which case it's going to fall about 7 yards short of where it should be. That ball should land right around the 10 yard line and if you look at it, the LB gets his hands on it because in reality, it's probably going to land around the 18 yard line.

[morsdraconis]

Looks like a bullet pass to me man and would equate to that with the thrown up and away usage (making it have to be thrown lower to bullet it in there at that distance).

[I OU a Beatn]

It's whatever you want to call the middle pressure. It's not a lob, and it's not a bullet, which is exactly how a route like that should be thrown. That ball should have easily cleared the LB, and it wasn't even remotely close to doing so.

[psusnoop]

Good pics interesting to see, I want more and I want vids to see though.

I'm also not seeing this happen often enough to draw my attention to it, and I've got 14 online lobby games thus far.

I think some proper see it happen more for a couple of different reasons.
1. They try and force a throw into an opening that would make Brett Farve cringe.
2. The next thing is that I see users online throwing between the hashes more in a video game then it happens in real life. The reason is simple but people need to realize the consequences for doing it too.
3. I often catch myself forcing throws in the middle of field due to pressure, if I get it off it is almost always a laser to the WR.

[I OU a Beatn]

I can do a video, but it takes time to render and upload. I'll see what I can do.

[psusnoop]

Save a highlight of it and let's look at it. Show bullets, pushes and taps onthe same route from same plays.

I would but I won't be online for another 2.5 hrs.

OU that did look like a bullet, but I'm willing to look at more.

I still think the reasons so many people see it is because they are constantly throwing in the middle of the field.

[skipwondah33]

It's not a forced pass if the WR is 20 yards down field with NO ONE around him in against a cover 2 zone zone but an LB who is 5-10 yards in front of him... the deep middle and outsides are the weaknesses of.

I wish people would stop saying it like we're throwing passes all over the place

[psusnoop]

If u looked at statistics I'm sure you would see players with there slot and TE as there leading receivers which tells the story there.

[cjg225]

If u looked at statistics I'm sure you would see players with there slot and TE as there leading receivers which tells the story there.
Devon Smith and Kevin Haplea are pretty much the only two guys who catch passes for me, so, yeah, I agree. lol

Justin Brown gets one occasionally, and I almost never see Moye open. Anytime I throw to Moye, his 6'5" body makes no attempt whatsoever to go up and get a pass while the 5'10" DB covering him just jumps up and snags a pick.

[I OU a Beatn]

It's not a forced pass if the WR is 20 yards down field with NO ONE around him in against a cover 2 zone zone but an LB who is 5-10 yards in front of him... the deep middle and outsides are the weaknesses of.

I wish people would stop saying it like we're throwing passes all over the place

Exactly, look at the picture. It's a cover 2 where the receiver has beaten the under neath coverage. The safeties are playing the sidelines meaning there's no one in the middle of the field, so that should be an EASY TD if it's thrown with a little air under it, which is exactly how it's thrown. If I throw a bullet, the underneath coverage is going to get their hands on it, and if I throw a lob, the safety has a play on it.

There's no ands, ifs, or buts about it, the trajectory of the ball is far too low.

[Dr Death]

It's not a forced pass if the WR is 20 yards down field with NO ONE around him in against a cover 2 zone zone but an LB who is 5-10 yards in front of him... the deep middle and outsides are the weaknesses of.

I wish people would stop saying it like we're throwing passes all over the place

This!!! ^^^ +1,000,000 I know this a message board and nobody here truly knows me, outside of being the annoying guy who uses bold and team logo's... :D But I KNOW football. I've studied the Run & Shoot for 20 years, the Air Raid for the past 6 years and I know how to read defenses and route progressions.

And I also know when I have a WR streaking down the middle of the field, wide the #### open and a LBer does something that would make Ray Lewis envious, it infuriates me no end. And it just keeps happening. Year after year. :smh: :fp: :(

[PeteyKirch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0seCYifZLMg

I was able to get a decent arc on this deep pass.

[I OU a Beatn]

That was a lob and you can easily see it was brutally under thrown and the DB just missed the ball. The only issue I have with lob passes is just that - they're almost always under thrown. I invite anyone to test it out. Call a streak down the sideline. Let the receiver get about 15 yards down and wait for him to get a step on the DB. Give it a nice little lob and watch as what should be a catch is under thrown and picked off by the trailing safety. This happens at an alarming rate.

[Dr Death]

Whilst we're talking about trajectory, this is different but the same in that it's screwed up, in the demo the Bubble Screen worked really well. But in the game, it's just like last year. The WR runs too slow and you never know where the QB is going to throw the ball. I went into Practice Mode to work on this and the timing has to be down to with-in a gnats ass to complete the pass and have it actually gain yardage. You choose this play against a blitz or a Cover 3 or 4 and if you don't nail it just perfectly, the pass is woefully overthrown... as in the QB throws it upfield or, if you do complete it, the WR once again takes too long to get going, resulting in a 1 or 2 yard gain at best.

In real life, this play is quick... the WR runs it quick, the pass gets to him and he takes off up the field. In the game it's just... :fp: The demo worked perfectly... why did the game revert back to '11???

[Whammer]

That was a lob and you can easily see it was brutally under thrown and the DB just missed the ball. The only issue I have with lob passes is just that - they're almost always under thrown. I invite anyone to test it out. Call a streak down the sideline. Let the receiver get about 15 yards down and wait for him to get a step on the DB. Give it a nice little lob and watch as what should be a catch is under thrown and picked off by the trailing safety. This happens at an alarming rate.

Agreed. It's surprising how many long throws are either under thrown or over thrown. Few every drop right into a receivers hands. I don't think it's bad thing, it's not easy to throw the deep ball accurately.

Again my big complaint is lack of arc on medium passes. With an LB 10 yards in front of me and a WR 10 yards BEHIND him I should be able to arc it EASILY over his head without him being able to swat it away. Also consider that my WR is running AWAY from where the LB is STANDING, thus putting even more distance between himself and the LB. It seems pretty easy that the QB should easily be able to put the ball over the LB's head. TRAJECTORY is the problem.

[cjg225]

I have noticed some WRs move incredibly slowly after the catch in this game, while the defenders can sprint with ease.

[Whammer]

Whilst we're talking about trajectory, this is different but the same in that it's screwed up, in the demo the Bubble Screen worked really well. But in the game, it's just like last year. The WR runs too slow and you never know where the QB is going to throw the ball. I went into Practice Mode to work on this and the timing has to be down to with-in a gnats ass to complete the pass and have it actually gain yardage. You choose this play against a blitz or a Cover 3 or 4 and if you don't nail it just perfectly, the pass is woefully overthrown... as in the QB throws it upfield or, if you do complete it, the WR once again takes too long to get going, resulting in a 1 or 2 yard gain at best.

In real life, this play is quick... the WR runs it quick, the pass gets to him and he takes off up the field. In the game it's just... :fp: The demo worked perfectly... why did the game revert back to '11???

Yeah, these are plays that are pointless to ever call. When you call it you know it's basically going to get blown up. Why risk it?
Here's a REALLY odd play I came across today.....5 WR spread, NO ONE in the backfield, qb in shotgun. The play IS A PLAY ACTION pass! LOL.
The QB fakes the hand off to NO ONE!!!!! I suppose it's possible he's actually pretending to tuck the ball and run but it didn't look like it to me.

[JeffHCross]

There certainly is more possibility to put air under the ball this year, but there's room for improvement. The fact that the game lets you "bullet" the pass (though, if you watch closely, a bullet that goes 30+ yards is not the same trajectory as a bullet that goes 10 yards, for example) is probably a bad idea, since there's no method available for a player to "learn" besides trial and error. Certainly something to keep our collective eyes on in the future.


The play IS A PLAY ACTION pass! LOL.Without knowing the play name, I'd assume it's a Play Action of a Draw. That's what every PA in 5-wide I've seen is.

[ram29jackson]

Hey mors, on a sidenote, Heisman plays really good right out of the box this year. I don't feel that cheat stuff at all like in '10 and earlier. '11 wasn't too bad IMO, but will still suspect on some stuff, but Heisman in '12 so far has me really impressed.


Damn straight, glad you guys chimed in with that.
In that measurements example post I linked to earlier, I had actually downplayed a real LB's ability and only assumed 12" due to being off-balance or what have you (and that is fairly supported by the video to the Colts/Jags game linked earlier) but that goes to show that human LBs are very capable of knocking down passes from a pure measurements standpoint.
As you were helping to lay out..........it is about awareness and reaction time.

oh for crying out loud- what the F does this have to do with anything ? comparing a human who puts all his energy into one jump with no fatigue from before in real life.. to an animation that never gets fatigued running around like a tazmanian devil doesnt prove diddly..one does not help prove the other in any way shape or form.

[ram29jackson]

Yeah, these are plays that are pointless to ever call. When you call it you know it's basically going to get blown up. Why risk it?
Here's a REALLY odd play I came across today.....5 WR spread, NO ONE in the backfield, qb in shotgun. The play IS A PLAY ACTION pass! LOL.
The QB fakes the hand off to NO ONE!!!!! I suppose it's possible he's actually pretending to tuck the ball and run but it didn't look like it to me.

it was in last years game and is a real life play call as well..Tebow lived off that :)

[jwallace0317]

The problem with this trajectory issue is that NCAA 11 fucked up guys' perceptions of what passing over the middle should be like, and made it a lot easier than it should be. When you get down to it, there are generally three types of intermediate-or-deeper passes which go over the middle: streaks, posts, and deep ins. Deep ins generally require a harder throw to get the ball into the window, and for these passes the quarterback is taught to be aware of his passing lanes and not to throw the ball when an LB is in the passing lane. For those who haven't been able to see these passes from the ground level on a sideline, your best reference would be to look at these passes on a highlight show (like, NFL Films style). In that kind of replay, you can actually see defenders (often, linebackers) on either side of the passing lane and you can see that if one of those linebackers was in the passing lane he would deflect the ball. You take a 6-2 linebacker, his reach goes at least a couple feet over the top of his head, and he usually has at least a couple feet of rise. That's more than 10 feet in the air folks, and it's 12 feet for a really athletic and tall linebacker. On a deep in route the ball does not spend a lot of time above that ten foot level, if it all, because of how much power has to go into the throw, and the lower release point (deeper throws have a higher release point of course). Ditto this for streaks, which despite how lobby ballers use them are usually designed for hitting the receiver in the 10-12 yard range in stride. For deep posts, I haven't seen any LB's get their hands on the ball, at least in the games I've played.

Anyway, in '11, the bullet/lob was calibrated so that it was easy to throw a sort of "hard lob" to the deep in. By "hard lob" I mean that you'd put just enough touch on the ball so that it would get loft, but the force/speed on the ball was way more than what you would expect if you lofted it that way in real life. The "super LB's" of NCAA 11 actually prove this, because the whole reason we called them super LB's is because the ball was so friggin elevated when they got their hands on it. Hard passes don't go that high, and linebackers don't jump that high....that was the dual problem in '11. Now, the super LB thing has been significantly decreased in '12. But guys still want to be able to throw the "hard lobs" to receivers running deep ins! lol

[I OU a Beatn]

Deep in, sure. Post route that is led, no.

[skipwondah33]

Deep in, sure. Post route that is led, no.

Exactly how are posts being batted down for WR's 20 yards down field

[Whammer]

Exactly how are posts being batted down for WR's 20 yards down field

I think when EA said they tightened up zone defense for NCAA 12 they actually took the easy route- they lowered the trajectory of the ball. Thus making it very difficult to pass the ball in the middle.

I've never been a deep ball guy. I've always played a more ball control type of game and never just air it out. But because of the trajectory problems I'm finding myself have to air it out more. To me it just feels a bit cheesy to have to do that. Hopefully EA can come up with a solution that most of us can live with.

[Rudy]

Yeah they do.

Just this past year, at the combine, there were 8 LBs that jumped 35.5" or higher in the Vertical Leap workout, and that's flatfooted with no momentum at all. Hell, the top performer was Rocky McIntosh from 2006 with a 42.5" vertical.

That's a poor argument imo. Those guys are jumping in track shoes when they are planning to jump as part of a track competition. They aren't wearing 40 pounds of equipment and moving in opposite directions. Momentum, reaction times, equipment are big reasons why you rarely see a LB leave the field at all in an attempt to defend a pass. I'd love to see anyone post a picture of a real LB jumping high off the ground to pick off a pass. No LB comes close to achieving his combine vertical leap numbers on the actual field.

I personally believe the passes need more arc and that it's too hard to drop balls over a LB to a wide open WR. It's better than NCAA 11 but it still needs more work. I don't see how sliders affect this at all either. We used to have a knockdown slider that could be used to adjust how well a DB/LB can play the ball in the air but they removed it. There are no sliders in the game currently to affect trajectory, jumping ability or how well a DB actually plays the ball when in position.

[Oneback]

Took all of 30 seconds in practice to replicate it:

http://i55.tinypic.com/axhdly.jpg

Post route thrown against cover 2 with just a slight press of the button and directional stick up and to the right to lead the receiver. The LB who is approximately 13 yards in front of where the ball should be thrown, EASILY gets his paws on the ball.

Just to reiterate this here are the receivers rules on a post route:

Explode to a depth of 12 to 14 yards, sprint for four steps out of the break, and turn your "eyes to the sky," anticipating the ball at a depth of 40 yards.

A LBer sitting at 10-15 yards has no business swatting down a ball that will be completed at 40 yards. The post route is a play for the corner\safety to break up.

[I OU a Beatn]

Exactly, which is also why you can't put a whole lot of touch on the ball. The longer the ball is in the air, the better the chance the DB has to come over and make a play on the ball. Because of this issue, I've all but had to completely stop throwing post routes. Nearly every time I throw one, it's either unrealistically tipped by the under neath LB, or I hold the ball too long trying to get some extra space between the LB and receiver(as if 15+ yards isn't far enough) and end up throwing it to the safety.

[Dr Death]

Yeah, these are plays that are pointless to ever call. When you call it you know it's basically going to get blown up. Why risk it?
Here's a REALLY odd play I came across today.....5 WR spread, NO ONE in the backfield, qb in shotgun. The play IS A PLAY ACTION pass! LOL.
The QB fakes the hand off to NO ONE!!!!! I suppose it's possible he's actually pretending to tuck the ball and run but it didn't look like it to me.

That play you are referring to, the QB ducks down as if he's going to run, then he stands up and scans the field to throw. I agree... it's rather stupid unless you have a Tim Tebow and the defense actually honored play-action fakes...

As for the Bubble Screen... I only call it as an audible... and playing my first dynasty game as the OC at :Wyoming: I actually hit one for an 85 yard TD! The WR made one helluva catch and a DB blew right past him trying to get the pick, then one block later and he was gone. I'll upload a photo of the catch.

Here's the photo:

http://i51.tinypic.com/5lz6zo.jpg

[Pig Bomb]

im currently experimenting with pulling down on the stick and pushing the button medium hard....has anyone else tried using different combos of stick and pressure to get a better lobbed ball that LB's cant jump up and get?

[Oneback]

So in looking at this further which is what I knew was the case a long time ago....the angle at which the recievers break is wrong. The landmark for a post route is the goal post no matter where the receiver makes his break at on the field. This is because the closer the reciever gets to the backside hash mark the greater the chance of the backside safety making a play on the ball. When you are able to complete this pass it is typically around the 25-30 yard mark which means a dropping linebacker at 15 yards could possibly make a play on the ball.

[Oneback]

Another problem I am seeing which people have said for a long time....the defensive backs (safeties really) are reacting at the exact second you hit the button to throw. I went back into instant replay and watched the safety and as soon as the QB takes his step forwards to throw the ball the safety turns and runs to the exact spot the ball is being thrown....in this instance the safety was playing a seam receiver and standing on the 47-48 yards line on the opposite side of the field and reacted as soon as I pressed the button, at the exact second the quarterback releases the ball the safety has now covered 6-7 yards and is in a dead sprint to the exact location the ball is being thrown.

[cjg225]

Another problem I am seeing which people have said for a long time....the defensive backs (safeties really) are reacting at the exact second you hit the button to throw. I went back into instant replay and watched the safety and as soon as the QB takes his step forwards to throw the ball the safety turns and runs to the exact spot the ball is being thrown....in this instance the safety was playing a seam receiver and standing on the 47-48 yards line on the opposite side of the field and reacted as soon as I pressed the button, at the exact second the quarterback releases the ball the safety has now covered 6-7 yards and is in a dead sprint to the exact location the ball is being thrown.
This seems in-line with what I've seen, as well. Except my safeties don't do that when I am playing D! lol

[I OU a Beatn]

Another problem I am seeing which people have said for a long time....the defensive backs (safeties really) are reacting at the exact second you hit the button to throw. I went back into instant replay and watched the safety and as soon as the QB takes his step forwards to throw the ball the safety turns and runs to the exact spot the ball is being thrown....in this instance the safety was playing a seam receiver and standing on the 47-48 yards line on the opposite side of the field and reacted as soon as I pressed the button, at the exact second the quarterback releases the ball the safety has now covered 6-7 yards and is in a dead sprint to the exact location the ball is being thrown.

Yep, and it ticks me off unlike anything else.

[AustinWolv]

oh for crying out loud- what the F does this have to do with anything ? comparing a human who puts all his energy into one jump with no fatigue from before in real life.. to an animation that never gets fatigued running around like a tazmanian devil doesnt prove diddly..one does not help prove the other in any way shape or form.

If you are going to type something, try making sense within the context of the conversation.


They aren't wearing 40 pounds of equipment and moving in opposite directions.
Football players don't weight 40lbs of equipment. Stop being ridiculous.

[ram29jackson]

If you are going to type something, try making sense within the context of the conversation.


Football players don't weight 40lbs of equipment. Stop being ridiculous.

it made perfect sense. You cant compare reality to a video game in the context you are trying to do it in. The video game players dart around in an unrealistic fashion as an excuse for better coverage. ...and I still love you and will play this game all season :)

[souljahbill]

Another problem I am seeing which people have said for a long time....the defensive backs (safeties really) are reacting at the exact second you hit the button to throw. I went back into instant replay and watched the safety and as soon as the QB takes his step forwards to throw the ball the safety turns and runs to the exact spot the ball is being thrown....in this instance the safety was playing a seam receiver and standing on the 47-48 yards line on the opposite side of the field and reacted as soon as I pressed the button, at the exact second the quarterback releases the ball the safety has now covered 6-7 yards and is in a dead sprint to the exact location the ball is being thrown.

I noticed this too. In fact, I saw a replay where as soon as I passed to a receiver who had his man beat, the opposing safety, WHO HAD HIS BACK TURNED TOWARDS ME THE ENTIRE TIME, turned, leaving the man he was covering, and ran across the field to make an over-the-shoulder interception. I already can't pass very well but I was punished for making the correct read/throw and it's frustrating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rudy]

Football players don't weight 40lbs of equipment. Stop being ridiculous.

I guess Darryl Johnston was being ridiculous when he said he weighed 46 pounds heavier when dressed in his full gear while playing. Maybe equipment is lighter now than when he played but when you add real cleats, helmets, and all your pads it's more than people realize.

[SmoothPancakes]

I guess Darryl Johnston was being ridiculous when he said he weighed 46 pounds heavier when dressed in his full gear while playing. Maybe equipment is lighter now than when he played but when you add real cleats, helmets, and all your pads it's more than people realize.

It might have weighed 40 pounds in the 1980s, but it definitely doesn't anymore.

[Rudy]

It might have weighed 40 pounds in the 1980s, but it definitely doesn't anymore.

To be fair, Moose loaded up on every pad he could wear but I still bet LBs equipment weighs quite a bit. I'd love to see them do their combine drills in full gear instead of spandex and track shoes.

[SmoothPancakes]

To be fair, Moose loaded up on every pad he could wear but I still bet LBs equipment weighs quite a bit. I'd love to see them do their combine drills in full gear instead of spandex and track shoes.

Yeah, that definitely would have added some extra weight. But at least in my own personal experience, the last time I played football 6 years ago, the helmet, pads, and everything, definitely did not feel anywhere close to 40 pounds. Maybe around the 25 pound range, anywhere from 20-30 depending on what position and how much extra padding you might wear as opposed to another player, etc. But it's definitely less than 40.

Plus, with the advancement in technology over the years, EVERYTHING has become lighter than what it used to weigh 10-20+ years ago, so football pads would certainly be something that would also get lighter with better technology and production methods.

[AustinWolv]

I guess Darryl Johnston was being ridiculous when he said he weighed 46 pounds heavier when dressed in his full gear while playing. Maybe equipment is lighter now than when he played but when you add real cleats, helmets, and all your pads it's more than people realize.

If you are suggesting that football equipment weighs nearly as much as the full rigs that soldiers weigh, I have some oceanfront property in Nebraska that you would love (fully loaded magazines, front and back armor plates, tactical rig, bunches of misc items).

http://www.livestrong.com/article/366551-what-do-football-pads-weigh/


The video game players dart around in an unrealistic fashion as an excuse for better coverage. ...and I still love you and will play this game all season
Good job not understanding the thread.
That was the point I made explicitly earlier in the thread.
The point is this, that you missed: People whine that the game's defenders can jump too high, blah, blah. Not true, as real human video and measurables show that the video game modeling of those physical capabilities isn't terribly off. What is off is the game defenders' reaction time and awareness compared to real humans.
Go turn down CPU pass coverage to 40 on Heisman and compare it to being at 50. Noticeable difference and you can wing passes over the middle past a LB's shoulder and he doesn't magically react all the time.

[AustinWolv]

I noticed this too. In fact, I saw a replay where as soon as I passed to a receiver who had his man beat, the opposing safety, WHO HAD HIS BACK TURNED TOWARDS ME THE ENTIRE TIME, turned, leaving the man he was covering, and ran across the field to make an over-the-shoulder interception. I already can't pass very well but I was punished for making the correct read/throw and it's frustrating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I mentioned that earlier in the thread also. Turn down CPU pass coverage.

[xMrHitStickx904]

trajectory for passes in between 15-20 yards does need to be tweaked. The directional passing can only do but so much, even when hurried, most QB's will end up sailing it over the head of a receiver, rather than actually throw right at a linebacker.

Quick question : can this be tuned for online games?? If so, that would change a lot about the way I pass the football. Personally, I think zones react fine. People say it's fast, but if you make the quick decision, I can out stick the quickness of the defense.

Also, take into the account of how far LB's are dropping into zones. In all of the game i've played online, guys have been throwing it right over my linebackers when my LB's drop 5 to 8 yards from the LOS, which I like. It needs work, but I think there is some overreacting though. * shrugs *

[xMrHitStickx904]

It might have weighed 40 pounds in the 1980s, but it definitely doesn't anymore.

exactly, my equipment in high school ( graduated a year ago ) was maybe 25 pounds, didn't feel like anything. After a certain point, you don't even notice.

[Pig Bomb]

I guess Darryl Johnston was being ridiculous when he said he weighed 46 pounds heavier when dressed in his full gear while playing. Maybe equipment is lighter now than when he played but when you add real cleats, helmets, and all your pads it's more than people realize.

these days it's 10-18 pounds

[Rudy]

I remain defeated lol!

[Whammer]

It is crazy how the deep men break on the ball AS SOON AS the ball is being released. And that's on VARSITY level!!!! AA was becoming too frustrating for me (with a 3 star team) so I went down to varsity level. I replayed the Safety breaking as soon as my arm was in motion. The next play I decided to see how they would react to the pump fake- they didn't! They held their positions and only broke when I started to release an actual pass.

EA CLAIMS they have fixed pass coverage but they have fixed nothing. They just jacked up awareness and reflexes. Very disappointing that EA calls that "fixing" pass coverage.

[cjg225]

It is crazy how the deep men break on the ball AS SOON AS the ball is being released. And that's on VARSITY level!!!! AA was becoming too frustrating for me (with a 3 star team) so I went down to varsity level. I replayed the Safety breaking as soon as my arm was in motion. The next play I decided to see how they would react to the pump fake- they didn't! They held their positions and only broke when I started to release an actual pass.

EA CLAIMS they have fixed pass coverage but they have fixed nothing. They just jacked up awareness and reflexes. Very disappointing that EA calls that "fixing" pass coverage.
Yeah, I never used Pump Fake before, but since it is now right-stick (instead of R2, I think, as it was in '03 and '08), I have tried it a few times. Doesn't seem to do anything.

[shockscape]

I was having a problem with my passing game, but I decided if I can't get rid of the ball after 5 seconds to take off. Eventually, the defense will have a LB spy you and this opens up the middle for me. Plus, my QB gets some nice runs in before the passing game gets going. I have taken my share of sacks and thrown some interceptions, but it's all a learning process with a new game. The defense plays a lot of zone, so you should be able to find someone open...if not, RUN!

[jaymo76]

I ran an interesting experiment last night. Before playing Rutgers I decided to look at the starting LB's JUMP POWER. 69/86/69 were the jump attributes for the three starting LB's. Then i decided to edit the jumping power. So, I dropped JUMPING down to 25. Here's the kicker.... NOT ONE PASS WAS BLOCKED OVER THE MIDDLE VIA LINEBACKERS AND NOT ONE INTERCETPION VIA LINEBACKERS!!!! This is easy to replicate... try it yourself and you will see. I am seriously considering editng JUMP for every single linebacker I play against before each game.

[Pig Bomb]

I ran an interesting experiment last night. Before playing Rutgers I decided to look at the starting LB's JUMP POWER. 69/86/69 were the jump attributes for the three starting LB's. Then i decided to edit the jumping power. So, I dropped JUMPING down to 25. Here's the kicker.... NOT ONE PASS WAS BLOCKED OVER THE MIDDLE VIA LINEBACKERS AND NOT ONE INTERCETPION VIA LINEBACKERS!!!! This is easy to replicate... try it yourself and you will see. I am seriously considering editng JUMP for every single linebacker I play against before each game.

nice idea

[ram29jackson]

I ran an interesting experiment last night. Before playing Rutgers I decided to look at the starting LB's JUMP POWER. 69/86/69 were the jump attributes for the three starting LB's. Then i decided to edit the jumping power. So, I dropped JUMPING down to 25. Here's the kicker.... NOT ONE PASS WAS BLOCKED OVER THE MIDDLE VIA LINEBACKERS AND NOT ONE INTERCETPION VIA LINEBACKERS!!!! This is easy to replicate... try it yourself and you will see. I am seriously considering editng JUMP for every single linebacker I play against before each game.

thats interesting, but by default, their ratings shouldnt be that high anyway

[baseballplyrmvp]

thats interesting, but by default, their ratings shouldnt be that high anyway

agreed. i wish they'd lower em across the board; it give a better sense of who the elite players are.

[jaymo76]

thats interesting, but by default, their ratings shouldnt be that high anyway

I have been looking at a lot of MLB and most are between 70-90 for jump power. That is absolutely ridiculous. Look in detail at some ratings and you just shake your head. Editing rosters is an even bigger blessing that first appears.

[ram29jackson]

thats another part I dislike...it seems going into rosters and altering takes longer now, waiting for it to load each time you change to the next category

[PeteyKirch]

The editing of the jump rating does help a lot.

I pretty much maxed out the athletic LBs at 55 Jump, and most are now rated between 35-45.

I won't bother to edit every team, but just the 11 I end up playing each year in my Dynasty.

Luckily with the global dynasty editing it won't be in vain as soon as the original players on the roster graduate.

[souljahbill]

The editing of the jump rating does help a lot.

I pretty much maxed out the athletic LBs at 55 Jump, and most are now rated between 35-45.

I won't bother to edit every team, but just the 11 I end up playing each year in my Dynasty.

Luckily with the global dynasty editing it won't be in vain as soon as the original players on the roster graduate.

There's global dynasty editing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pig Bomb]

they can tuner this i bet

[Cipher 8]

I wouldn't say it ruins the game but they definitely need to find a way to make lob passes work better, right now the defenders just have too much time to catch up and the normal trajectory of the passes is stupid. I throw the ball over a corner that my receiver clearly has beat and there is no way he should be able to get the ball but because there's only two options low flying fast ball or slow high arc lob pass it's almost always knocked down. They need to make normal passes have more arc. That's what would take this gameplay to the next step IMO.

[Unconquered]

NCAA 06 had near-perfect pass trajectory. Members of the dev team should go back and play it for a week or two while working on NCAA 13.

[PeteyKirch]

There's global dynasty editing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well not like mass edits, but I mean you can edit every player in dynasty mode even if they aren't on your team.

[ram29jackson]

Well not like mass edits, but I mean you can edit every player in dynasty mode even if they aren't on your team.

and its about time this was possible

[Jayrah]

If you learn to throw into the windows this entire argument is void... EXCEPT the lb jump ratings. That's a good argument.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

[Cipher 8]

I do throw into the windows, i know when to throw, before they are open, i know how to lead my guys and certain plays that create confusion on the corners like a guy coming in motion but another guy going on a corner post type route that it totally behind him but I cannot throw the ball with any arc to get it over him and if I lob it it just gives them too much time to catch up. Lob passes rarely ever work and bullet passes on certain routes will almost always be knocked down.

[Jayrah]

I do throw into the windows, i know when to throw, before they are open, i know how to lead my guys and certain plays that create confusion on the corners like a guy coming in motion but another guy going on a corner post type route that it totally behind him but I cannot throw the ball with any arc to get it over him and if I lob it it just gives them too much time to catch up. Lob passes rarely ever work and bullet passes on certain routes will almost always be knocked down.

I had this issue too but now I have lowered the player speed variance to 40. Its has made a difference in how the windows create when wrs run away from lbs or slower corners. I havent run into an lb knockdown I didn't understand or like yet.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

[skipwondah33]

I have a few highlights that I will post up possibly later this evening. What I've noticed is that LB's don't even need to jump according to the trajectory of the ball. The game simply puts them into the jump animation to make it look good I suppose. Judging by the flight of the ball in the instances I have seen they could accomplish a swat just by putting their hand up. I noticed that the receiver will go into a jump animation as well for a ball no higher than 6 feet in the air.

More weight or sensitivity has to be put on passing so that I can throw a pass where if my receiver can't get to it then no one can. There are times when I want to lead to the pylon on corner posts but instead it is either absurbly underthrown right to the DB or if I lob it I lead my receiver out of bounds by 10 yards.

[cjg225]

I have a few highlights that I will post up possibly later this evening. What I've noticed is that LB's don't even need to jump according to the trajectory of the ball. The game simply puts them into the jump animation to make it look good I suppose. Judging by the flight of the ball in the instances I have seen they could accomplish a swat just by putting their hand up. I noticed that the receiver will go into a jump animation as well for a ball no higher than 6 feet in the air.

More weight or sensitivity has to be put on passing so that I can throw a pass where if my receiver can't get to it then no one can. There are times when I want to lead to the pylon on corner posts but instead it is either absurbly underthrown right to the DB or if I lob it I lead my receiver out of bounds by 10 yards.
Your receivers JUMP!?

[roccogator]

What happened to "Procedural Awareness" or whatever EA called it a couple of years ago, is it still in the game?

Last night, I came out in Strong Close against 5-2 defense had a WR running a slant with the FB releasing to the flats. QB makes a quick drop, I wait for the strong side LB to commit to the WR or FB, and as soon as he makes his break on the FB, turning his head and running with full momentum to the flats I fire it to the WR on the slant. The ball passes a good three to four yards behind the LB, but defying all laws of physics the LB leaps in the opposite direction he was traveling to make a one hand swat. He looked like he bounced off an invisible trampoline, stopping on a dime and immediately reversing momentum to travel in the opposite direction through the air faster than he had been running.

Unbelievable! Literally, unbelievable, impossible, and shouldn't be in the game. The physics are bad enough, but shouldn't "Procedural Awareness" have made him unaware of a pass that was thrown after he locked on to the FB.

[Deuce]

This is how I feel...I think we should be careful about what we ask for. Granted, we want realism and we want things to continually improve towards realism. BUT, if we get a CPU that does all of the proper reads and reacts realistically we'd be beating the CPU by 50 points a game. The CPU will always have to 'cheat' to make the game a challenge. I think that EA can always improve hiding the 'cheats' but it will always be there. It has to be IMHO. I know it's frustrating when it happens but be thankful that it does. How fun would it be to complete every pass b/c u know exactly how the CPU is going to react.

What I've found, and this is just speculation, is that the adaptive AI is much better this year. You get rewarded for calling different plays and shutdown when you rely on too many of the same plays. That's when I see the CPU cheats the most...when I use a certain play too much. The more diverse my play calling is the less 'cheating' I see.

[jaymo76]

This is how I feel...I think we should be careful about what we ask for. Granted, we want realism and we want things to continually improve towards realism. BUT, if we get a CPU that does all of the proper reads and reacts realistically we'd be beating the CPU by 50 points a game. The CPU will always have to 'cheat' to make the game a challenge. I think that EA can always improve hiding the 'cheats' but it will always be there. It has to be IMHO. I know it's frustrating when it happens but be thankful that it does. How fun would it be to complete every pass b/c u know exactly how the CPU is going to react.

What I've found, and this is just speculation, is that the adaptive AI is much better this year. You get rewarded for calling different plays and shutdown when you rely on too many of the same plays. That's when I see the CPU cheats the most...when I use a certain play too much. The more diverse my play calling is the less 'cheating' I see.

On that note I have never audibled as much as I have this year. I get to the line see the D and change my play 40-50% of the time. Looking at the D you can just tell what they are going to do. Plus, I have found that most D in this game are super aggressive so you don't have a lot of time to think after the snap.

[Deuce]

On that note I have never audibled as much as I have this year. I get to the line see the D and change my play 40-50% of the time. Looking at the D you can just tell what they are going to do. Plus, I have found that most D in this game are super aggressive so you don't have a lot of time to think after the snap.

Very true. One of my house rules was no audibles against the CPU. I had to change that this year. After a 4-8 followed by a 4-7 season I changed that rule. :)

Also, turning off auto strafe and sprint has made a big difference in my running game.

[Dr Death]

This is how I feel...I think we should be careful about what we ask for. Granted, we want realism and we want things to continually improve towards realism. BUT, if we get a CPU that does all of the proper reads and reacts realistically we'd be beating the CPU by 50 points a game. The CPU will always have to 'cheat' to make the game a challenge. I think that EA can always improve hiding the 'cheats' but it will always be there. It has to be IMHO. I know it's frustrating when it happens but be thankful that it does. How fun would it be to complete every pass b/c u know exactly how the CPU is going to react.

What I've found, and this is just speculation, is that the adaptive AI is much better this year. You get rewarded for calling different plays and shutdown when you rely on too many of the same plays. That's when I see the CPU cheats the most...when I use a certain play too much. The more diverse my play calling is the less 'cheating' I see.

I feel differently than you about this... it's 2011... technology has improved and continues to improve daily, and yet in the game, 99% of the time you can read the defense pre-snap and know what they're doing or going to do.

I would love it if we had an AI that actually game-planned for your game. If you do something a certain way, the defense prepares for that... but also have skill levels reflective of the ratings attributed to each players. And an offense for the CPU that doesn't snap the ball w/ :30 seconds left on the play clock every snap.

In other words - I want a challenge!

I've been playing Dynasty as the OC at :Wyoming: and we are currently 5-0 and beat #12 ranked :Nebraska:, 45-26. So I don't know... I think in real life Wyoming could not beat Nebraska by 19 points and sliders may help... but why can't we get a smarter AI that also plays realistically?

Is it too much money for EA to spend? Perhaps. I just hope that when the next, nex-gen comes we don't suffer the same massive leap backwards that we've had w/ this gen. All the things we were promised for the current gen have been... or feel like... outright lies.

I have also played some Play Now games w/ various team using their QB's, all who have various pass accuracy ratings, yet I can't tell a difference from an 83 ACC to a 94 ACC, because I can march the team down the field w/ either type of QB, usually completing 75-80% of my passes. In one game I was :Colorado: and Hansen was 11 of 14 for 81 yards and a TD, in another I was :Houston: and Keenum was 14 of 16 for 96 yards and a TD. These are using Steelerfan's sliders, which have QB ACC at 35, if memory serves.

[Deuce]

I feel differently than you about this... it's 2011... technology has improved and continues to improve daily, and yet in the game, 99% of the time you can read the defense pre-snap and know what they're doing or going to do.

I would love it if we had an AI that actually game-planned for your game. If you do something a certain way, the defense prepares for that... but also have skill levels reflective of the ratings attributed to each players. And an offense for the CPU that doesn't snap the ball w/ :30 seconds left on the play clock every snap.

In other words - I want a challenge!

I've been playing Dynasty as the OC at :Wyoming: and we are currently 5-0 and beat #12 ranked :Nebraska:, 45-26. So I don't know... I think in real life Wyoming could not beat Nebraska by 19 points and sliders may help... but why can't we get a smarter AI that also plays realistically?

Is it too much money for EA to spend? Perhaps. I just hope that when the next, nex-gen comes we don't suffer the same massive leap backwards that we've had w/ this gen. All the things we were promised for the current gen have been... or feel like... outright lies.

I have also played some Play Now games w/ various team using their QB's, all who have various pass accuracy ratings, yet I can't tell a difference from an 83 ACC to a 94 ACC, because I can march the team down the field w/ either type of QB, usually completing 75-80% of my passes. In one game I was :Colorado: and Hansen was 11 of 14 for 81 yards and a TD, in another I was :Houston: and Keenum was 14 of 16 for 96 yards and a TD. These are using Steelerfan's sliders, which have QB ACC at 35, if memory serves.

You say u want a challenge an your playing with :sf:'s sliders on AA? I think this is where EA is always going to have issues. Im playing on AA with default sliders and it's very much a challenge for me. Granted, I'm probably a below average player at best...I went 4-8 and then 4-7 in my first 2 seasons with a cupcake roster. I would not be having fun if I was 5-0 with Wyoming so I understand where you are coming from. Maybe you should switch to heisman?

One other thing...I agree that the tech is there. I just don't think the man hours needed to program the AI is ever going to be a reality. I just don't see how it's feasible. Really good football AI seems impossible to me. ...that why I don't mind the cheats.

[Dr Death]

You say u want a challenge an your playing with :sf:'s sliders on AA?

I started out playing on Heisman, using my sliders from last year. Steelerfan puts a lot of work into his sliders and everyone here seems to really like them, so I decided to try them out. It's my first time using AA. In Play Now games I was having some good games... I had to tweak the rush D for my team, because #6 from Colorado State was gaining like 200 yards a game on me... but using the same sliders in CC as OC... my defense is just dominating. Currently they are #4 in the country. I know Steelerfan designed these for humans playing against the CPU at all times... but I wouldn't call his sliders :sf:

For what it's worth, I was dominating on Heisman as well. I run a 5-Wide offense and know how to read the defense... which, in this game, is pretty easy... so I get the ball out quickly and am perfectly content w/ a 3 yard pass. Many of my drives are 15+ plays.

[Deuce]

For what it's worth, I was dominating on Heisman as well. I run a 5-Wide offense and know how to read the defense... which, in this game, is pretty easy... so I get the ball out quickly and am perfectly content w/ a 3 yard pass. Many of my drives are 15+ plays.

Interesting. That does kinda stink then. My offense is a lot more run oriented with a lot of short passes. I try to get to 3rd and 4 or less and throw a short pass. Problem is my receivers suck so they drop it about 50% of the time. I will say I'm in my 3rd season now and I'm 6-1 but haven't beaten a good team yet. Play #12 team this week so we'll see.

[Dr Death]

Interesting. That does kinda stink then. My offense is a lot more run oriented with a lot of short passes. I try to get to 3rd and 4 or less and throw a short pass. Problem is my receivers suck so they drop it about 50% of the time. I will say I'm in my 3rd season now and I'm 6-1 but haven't beaten a good team yet. Play #12 team this week so we'll see.

I would like to know how you got to year 3... mine keeps freezing up in week 7 of year one. Also... what sliders are you using? And what team are you? Feel free to PM me if you want.

[JBHuskers]

I would like to know how you got to year 3... mine keeps freezing up in week 7 of year one. Also... what sliders are you using? And what team are you? Feel free to PM me if you want.

http://www.thegamingtailgate.com/forums/showthread.php?2900-Online-Dynasty-w-Coaching-Carousel-Update

[Dr Death]

Mine isn't freezing up at the end of the year, I can't get past week 7...

[Deuce]

I would like to know how you got to year 3... mine keeps freezing up in week 7 of year one. Also... what sliders are you using? And what team are you? Feel free to PM me if you want.

I'm on PS3 an haven't had one freeze issue. I don't use a CP in my offline dynasty so that may be why. I like to change playbooks every couple of years as if I'm hiring new coordinators. Right now still on default sliders on AA but have adjusted penalties slightly. I only play 6 min qtrs too so I can get more games in. I'm using a TB team with a cupcake roster. I rebuild the MAC with much better teams using powerhouse rosters and also teams like Alabama and Oklahoma.

[The U]

I thought EA said they had worked on ball trajectory? Well I guess they didn't work hard enough. I'll have a WR 10 yds. behind a LB and because the ball is release so low he can easily jump up and swat it.
That doesn't happen in real life. The ball would easily have a trajectory that would keep it out reach of the LB.

Am I overreacting by calling the game broken? I don't think so. This problem makes it almost impossible to have any confidence in passing over the middle. You hesitate and then you almost always get sacked. You start to limit yourself to calling plays that are a little more safe (note- the other plays are only risking because of the faulty trajectory issue).

I just don't know how this crap exists year after year in EA's football games.




I feel its better than the past games, but yes the problem still is there. If you just let the routes develop a little bit more, usually, the LB won't be able to make the jump.

[Sven Draconian]

Dr. Death, you might want to check out my Computer Playbook Project if you haven't yet. I'm getting better AI play calling and a decent challenge. I need to fix up my sliders still, but I've gotten rid of a lot of the AI blunders that have persisted for years.

[Jayrah]

Dr. Death, you might want to check out my Computer Playbook Project if you haven't yet. I'm getting better AI play calling and a decent challenge. I need to fix up my sliders still, but I've gotten rid of a lot of the AI blunders that have persisted for years.

On top of that if you are dominating and really want a challenge change your offense from 5 wide all the time. You don't have to throw in a bunch of house rules for yourself. Just challenge yourself. Do something outside of your comfort zone and run the ball. Or turn up pass coverage to meet your needs.

OR even better than either of those is create a pb for cpu that gets rid of all base 3/4, 4/3 and 5/2. That way they run dime and nickel all day and make it tougher to exploit lbs and such.

This isn't a slight towards you but it always amuzes me when ppl effectively cheese the cpu by not changing up their offense and then blame the cpu for not being enough of a challenge.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

[cjg225]

I have also played some Play Now games w/ various team using their QB's, all who have various pass accuracy ratings, yet I can't tell a difference from an 83 ACC to a 94 ACC, because I can march the team down the field w/ either type of QB, usually completing 75-80% of my passes. In one game I was :Colorado: and Hansen was 11 of 14 for 81 yards and a TD, in another I was :Houston: and Keenum was 14 of 16 for 96 yards and a TD. These are using Steelerfan's sliders, which have QB ACC at 35, if memory serves.
Ugh. That makes me hate you.

[Sven Draconian]

On top of that if you are dominating and really want a challenge change your offense from 5 wide all the time. You don't have to throw in a bunch of house rules for yourself. Just challenge yourself. Do something outside of your comfort zone and run the ball. Or turn up pass coverage to meet your needs.

OR even better than either of those is create a pb for cpu that gets rid of all base 3/4, 4/3 and 5/2. That way they run dime and nickel all day and make it tougher to exploit lbs and such.

This isn't a slight towards you but it always amuzes me when ppl effectively cheese the cpu by not changing up their offense and then blame the cpu for not being enough of a challenge.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

Exactly. I run a power run/option based offense, so I give the CPU books without nickle/dime packages (other than one to match up if I go 3 wide). This way the run base D, 4-4 and Bear against me.

Whenever I go with an Air-Raid style offense, I'll create some CPU books that are all 3-3, 3-2 and other pass defenses. If I were to ONLY come out in 4 WR/5 WR sets, why would I include base 4-3?

[Pig Bomb]

Dr. Death, you might want to check out my Computer Playbook Project if you haven't yet. I'm getting better AI play calling and a decent challenge. I need to fix up my sliders still, but I've gotten rid of a lot of the AI blunders that have persisted for years.


On top of that if you are dominating and really want a challenge change your offense from 5 wide all the time. You don't have to throw in a bunch of house rules for yourself. Just challenge yourself. Do something outside of your comfort zone and run the ball. Or turn up pass coverage to meet your needs.

OR even better than either of those is create a pb for cpu that gets rid of all base 3/4, 4/3 and 5/2. That way they run dime and nickel all day and make it tougher to exploit lbs and such.

This isn't a slight towards you but it always amuzes me when ppl effectively cheese the cpu by not changing up their offense and then blame the cpu for not being enough of a challenge.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

for sure! 5WR's against the AI is like taking candy from a baby at times...the AI just can't handle it

[ram29jackson]

earlier, Steelerfan was saying how he felt passing in game was fine...and i agree with that as far as offline is concerned..i was in practice mode and it looked all right..but online,passes seem to balloon more.

but I still hate how medium passes balloon and lead the receiver when you have no want for it

[Rudy]

The leaping LB still pisses me off about 2-3 times a game.

[Kansacity88]

What happened to "Procedural Awareness" or whatever EA called it a couple of years ago, is it still in the game?

Last night, I came out in Strong Close against 5-2 defense had a WR running a slant with the FB releasing to the flats. QB makes a quick drop, I wait for the strong side LB to commit to the WR or FB, and as soon as he makes his break on the FB, turning his head and running with full momentum to the flats I fire it to the WR on the slant. The ball passes a good three to four yards behind the LB, but defying all laws of physics the LB leaps in the opposite direction he was traveling to make a one hand swat. He looked like he bounced off an invisible trampoline, stopping on a dime and immediately reversing momentum to travel in the opposite direction through the air faster than he had been running.

Unbelievable! Literally, unbelievable, impossible, and shouldn't be in the game. The physics are bad enough, but shouldn't "Procedural Awareness" have made him unaware of a pass that was thrown after he locked on to the FB.

LOL! That happened to me four times in one game. Two each by the LB and SS!!

[Kansacity88]

I'm on PS3 an haven't had one freeze issue. I don't use a CP in my offline dynasty so that may be why. I like to change playbooks every couple of years as if I'm hiring new coordinators. Right now still on default sliders on AA but have adjusted penalties slightly. I only play 6 min qtrs too so I can get more games in. I'm using a TB team with a cupcake roster. I rebuild the MAC with much better teams using powerhouse rosters and also teams like Alabama and Oklahoma.

Really? Sorry, a little OT but......do you have these available for download? Would love to see what NIU looks like!

[appleman]

I am in total agreement with you! I've had that happen numerous times and it is absolutely unrealistic. This needs to be fixed.

[keyser soze]

This is the only answer EA has to make the passing game harder unfortunately... fix this and we are back to throwing 500 yards per game. Not saying this problem is a GOOD thing mind you, just that its complicated by the fact that EA has no other answer. I would like to see the trajectory of the ball get fixed. I don't mind so much the 0 inertia for LBs as it at least makes the game harder as long as they don't PICK the ball off when doing this, bat downs are tolerable. I do want a better ball flight trajectory so guys 20 yards in front of my receiver can't knock it down.

[keyser soze]

This is how I feel...I think we should be careful about what we ask for. Granted, we want realism and we want things to continually improve towards realism. BUT, if we get a CPU that does all of the proper reads and reacts realistically we'd be beating the CPU by 50 points a game. The CPU will always have to 'cheat' to make the game a challenge. I think that EA can always improve hiding the 'cheats' but it will always be there. It has to be IMHO. I know it's frustrating when it happens but be thankful that it does. How fun would it be to complete every pass b/c u know exactly how the CPU is going to react.

What I've found, and this is just speculation, is that the adaptive AI is much better this year. You get rewarded for calling different plays and shutdown when you rely on too many of the same plays. That's when I see the CPU cheats the most...when I use a certain play too much. The more diverse my play calling is the less 'cheating' I see.

Totally agree with this post. Being that the CPU is so mechanical (well any video game will have this) plus we can see all 22 people at once which is completely unrealistic, we have such a huge advantage that the CPU simply has to "cheat" to have any chance to make the game somewhat fun.

[Pig Bomb]

o hell ya.... it makes running a power "down your throat" offense challenging because you can't call the same play over and over and just force it ...you gotta mix it this year or the AI will get ya and blow your plays up

[I OU a Beatn]

I don't care if they raise it for offline. The problem exists mostly online because people can sit in zones and not have to worry about defending a fairly large section of the field because their LB will be able to get a paw on it. The problem is solved offline by sliders.