NCAA Football 11 Demo Available Now! Share Your Impressions

[JeffHCross]

IOU: Find a good OD and half of those issues will become non-issues, but you'll still get to compete with humans. Not "the answer", but worth considering.

[Deuce]

Did I dream this or is there a blog coming out explaining the differences between the demo and final build?

[rhombic21]

Looking at some of the videos that Pastapadre has posted and the underneath zones are still messed up.

[steelerfan]

This thread is giving me a headache.

[Deuce]

Looking at some of the videos that Pastapadre has posted and the underneath zones are still messed up.

Do you have a link? The only one I could find is the Wash game and there was only 2 plays...I guess I'm missing the other videos?

[rhombic21]

The Wash video and also there's a Rutgers-Miami Video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QyWd844U6Y&feature=player_embedded

[JeffHCross]

Did I dream this or is there a blog coming out explaining the differences between the demo and final build?NHL did this last year, so there's hope. But I don't recall seeing any promise of one.

[morsdraconis]

I don't know if it's just the play I was choosing in the 4-4 defense, but I found changing the CBs to conservatively go for the INT and changing the contain setting to conservative helps IMMENSELY with zone coverage. I don't do any of that retarded pass/run commit stuff and I was able to play pretty damn good defense for the first 25 yards or so.

I still contend that Heisman is the difficulty to play on and that just because online play is on All-American doesn't mean that playing against a user doesn't VASTLY changes how the defense is going to react. Sure, you can't go flying all over the place, but playing against a user is going to stop most of those bullshit user catches that people love to do and that'll stop 95% of the over the top crap cause not touching the WR while the ball is in the air, the CPU does a good job against the deep ball once you torch them once or twice (just like in real life).

[cdj]

Did I dream this or is there a blog coming out explaining the differences between the demo and final build?

I'm drawing a blank where it was stated, but I'm pretty sure there will be something (blog, list) discussing the changes between the two.

[JeffHCross]

Played Ohio State / Miami on Heisman difficulty, and tried to recreate the "easy" throws rhombic's seeing. To say I was unsuccessful would be quite the understatement. Heisman is definitely the level to be at this year.

[Deuce]

NHL did this last year, so there's hope. But I don't recall seeing any promise of one.


I'm drawing a blank where it was stated, but I'm pretty sure there will be something (blog, list) discussing the changes between the two.

I thought so...but my memory sucks so I wasn't sure. Thx!

[rhombic21]

I don't know if it's just the play I was choosing in the 4-4 defense, but I found changing the CBs to conservatively go for the INT and changing the contain setting to conservative helps IMMENSELY with zone coverage. I don't do any of that retarded pass/run commit stuff and I was able to play pretty damn good defense for the first 25 yards or so.

I still contend that Heisman is the difficulty to play on and that just because online play is on All-American doesn't mean that playing against a user doesn't VASTLY changes how the defense is going to react. Sure, you can't go flying all over the place, but playing against a user is going to stop most of those bullshit user catches that people love to do and that'll stop 95% of the over the top crap cause not touching the WR while the ball is in the air, the CPU does a good job against the deep ball once you torch them once or twice (just like in real life).

These were not user catches. These were receivers running wide open.

[rhombic21]

Just tried it on Heisman. Me as UF versus FSU. 74-22 final. Ended up with somewhere between 600 and 700 yards. Would have probably had another 200 or so, but we fumbled away a kickoff return and the computer decided to run clock at the end instead of trying to score. And easily could have had another 200 yards on top of that if my QB doesn't miss some wide open WRs.

[JeffHCross]

It's broken. Everyone cancel your preorders.

[morsdraconis]

Just tried it on Heisman. Me as UF versus FSU. 74-22 final. Ended up with somewhere between 600 and 700 yards. Would have probably had another 200 or so, but we fumbled away a kickoff return and the computer decided to run clock at the end instead of trying to score. And easily could have had another 200 yards on top of that if my QB doesn't miss some wide open WRs.

I'm sorry but can you please provide a video of this because I have to know what the fuck you are doing to totally break the CPU like that cause I'm sure as fuck not seeing it.

I've tried everything and I can't get people running wide open every play like you are apparently getting.

[JeffHCross]

From Utop:

If you want, I can make a video of it, but it's really not that hard. Just go Shotgun 5 Wide and run a Four Verticals play that has one WR running that double move drag route, another running the skinny post, a third running a seam route, and then the two outside receivers on fly patterns. Somebody will be wide the fuck open every single time (almost).

Given the fact that this very play was already over-effective last year, and there were people who already ran it to death, I'm sure that it'll be really popular now. Have fun stopping that shit.

[coogrfan]

I'm drawing a blank where it was stated, but I'm pretty sure there will be something (blog, list) discussing the changes between the two.

Per Adam Thompson in a post earlier this evening over at OS:


Couple updates here... the demo is exactly one month older than the final version. The demo was based on the build on May 1st, and we finalled NCAA 11 on June first.

The info on what has been fixed between demo and retail is going to be in a blog tomorrow or the next day. Also, that other feature I teased you about? Well, it was never in the blog schedule and fits in well with this demo blog so you will be finding out.

Since I'm about the only guy on the NCAA production team that isn't at E3, looks like I've been volunteered to write it

[Kingpin32]

Well if you only play against straight players and/or are in an OD, I don't think this is as big of deal, but I do understand for those straight players that play against randoms. And also the fact that EA hasn't hired Rhombic to point these mistakes out to them is also baffling.

[steelerfan]

Per Adam Thompson in a post earlier this evening over at OS:

Good find, coog. Thanks!

Hopefully, some serious overhauls have been made to defense or DynastyWire may look like Lugnutt (isn't that who I'm thinking of from the other site?) wrote all the articles. :D

[SmoothPancakes]

Good find, coog. Thanks!

Hopefully, some serious overhauls have been made to defense or DynastyWire may look like Lugnutt (isn't that who I'm thinking of from the other site?) wrote all the articles. :D

Yep, Lugnutt is the right person. Those were some hilarious threads to read. :D

Hopefully this issue with the passing defense was fixed before the final product, or we may as well rename the game to NCAA Football 11: Special Lugnutt Edition.

[steelerfan]

NCAA Football 11: Special Lugnutt Edition.


:D:D:D:D:D

[rhombic21]

I'm sorry but can you please provide a video of this because I have to know what the fuck you are doing to totally break the CPU like that cause I'm sure as fuck not seeing it.

I've tried everything and I can't get people running wide open every play like you are apparently getting.

The video is in the process of being made. It's a big file so it'll take awhile, and then probably even longer to upload. It's too long to put on Youtube, so I will try to upload somewhere else. Hopefully by morning.

[morsdraconis]

The video is in the process of being made. It's a big file so it'll take awhile, and then probably even longer to upload. It's too long to put on Youtube, so I will try to upload somewhere else. Hopefully by morning.

Cool man. Thanks for taking the time to do it. I didn't mean to be a dick but I was hoping with the video if there was a way to really break it down and tell what the CPU is doing that's ruining any chances of it covering that play effectively, I'd like to figure it out.

When I tried to do it, myself, I wasn't taking the underneath stuff so it was dropping into Cover 4 and covering everything down the field. I think it might be able to be covered with a special Cover 3 setup but I doubt anything in the 4-3 playbook will be able to cover it.

[SmoothPancakes]

The video is in the process of being made. It's a big file so it'll take awhile, and then probably even longer to upload. It's too long to put on Youtube, so I will try to upload somewhere else. Hopefully by morning.

Yeah, I'm testing this out right now and it's just pathetic. While I'm not putting up near the same numbers, partly because Texas managed to keep their opening drive sustained for a good bit, it's easy pickins. There is always at least one receiver wide open.

I also had an interesting play on defense just now. 6 seconds left in the half, Texas on their own 35, both the offense and defense is stacked for the run (Texas just trying to run out the clock and end the half), and it ends up being a 22-man pinball machine with the runner just bouncing off of every single teammate and defender for a good 10-15 seconds until he bounces into a hole and runs away for the touchdown. Trying to user tackle was apparently worthless for that one play because every single player I tried it with just slid right off him like he was a greased pig. I really hope that was more of a one-time/rare occurrence and that it won't become more common place of an issue as more games are played by the community, because that could also really set back gameplay for me along with the worthless pass defense.

[rhombic21]

Well, I hit the little drag pattern against man (unless I see somebody open deep immediately) and against really loose zones, which usually nets somewhere between 12 and 20 yards. And obviously I scored so many points because I recovered a bunch of onsides kicks, but given that we're talking about 2 minute quarters, the total number of possessions is probably fairly comparable to what you might get in a full length game.

Could you probably stop it if you knew for a fact that it was coming? Yes. But then you'd leave yourself wide open to a bunch of easy stuff underneath, and any intelligent human is going to pick you apart. My point though is that the defensive AI is broken to the point that realistic pass defense is simply not possible. Video is still processing, only about 40% completed, so it'll definitely be morning.

[SmoothPancakes]

Well, I hit the little drag pattern against man (unless I see somebody open deep immediately) and against really loose zones, which usually nets somewhere between 12 and 20 yards. And obviously I scored so many points because I recovered a bunch of onsides kicks, but given that we're talking about 2 minute quarters, the total number of possessions is probably fairly comparable to what you might get in a full length game.

Could you probably stop it if you knew for a fact that it was coming? Yes. But then you'd leave yourself wide open to a bunch of easy stuff underneath, and any intelligent human is going to pick you apart. My point though is that the defensive AI is broken to the point that realistic pass defense is simply not possible. Video is still processing, only about 40% completed, so it'll definitely be morning.

I was doing the same thing. I'd usually hit the drag pattern if no one opened up, but most times one of the deep receivers would get open within seconds of the play starting and boom, touchdown. Just ended my game, I didn't do any onside kicks or anything, and still beat Texas 56-7. I didn't really keep track of yards, but one of the in-game stats showed my leading receiver with over 350 yards and 4 TDs, so I easily went over 500 yards passing. I definitely think I'm not even going to think about trying online against random people until this is fixed. I'll just stick to the ODs and playing against friends. That is way to easy to exploit and basically kills the gameplay, at least against probably most randoms you'd get matched against.

[beartide06]

Again I played another game and this same
thing happened once more. I was offsides the opposing team scored a
touchdown and then accepted the penalty instead of declining it and getting the touchdown. It was a sick TD too.

This glitch, as it seems, needs to be addressed and brought to the attention of the devs.

[Deuce]

Is it one play or is it certain routes? Seems like there has always been a money play in every iteration of the game. Didn't 2004 have the corner routes?

Dont get me wrong though, the Def AI needs to be worked...

At least in OD's they should give the commish the ability to 'delete' plays. Another idea, if the def AI can't be patched is Allowng each player to pick three plays from the opposing playbook to 'delete'. That might make random online games worthwhile.

[xGRIDIRONxGURUx]

this isnt something thats broke... let me pose a question... when you blitz 3 people to the B and C gaps? with only a G and T to block? yes... a sack... overload blitz...

what happens when you send 3 deep on one side and only a FS and CB to cover...??????? what? are you serious? 3 on 2? OMG this is so broke!!!!

(insert Jeff's comment to cancel pre-orders)

this is the kind of stuff that im talking about... yeah ok vs the CPU... if you want to sit back and run the same play for 2 minutes and either hit a crossing man vs MAN COVERAGE, or overload a zone deep... then by all means... go and be the kind of player that most of us resent...

but at least stop saying its "broke" ive already said... the FS needs some awareness tweaks to help with the overload but to be very honest, that play wont work against another user that much... especially vs me if i see you running it over and over... and run Nickel 2-4-5 DT Blitz, hot route LB's to hook zones... zones underneath to stop the crossing route, and man over the top to protect the deep ball...

this is the kind of stuff that aggravates me... and really why im just not much of a "forum" person anymore... too many people call real football tactics "broken"... this is like people who dont understand overload blitzing and call it nano blitzing... funny stuff... THERE ARE CHANGES THAT NEED TO BE MADE... trust me... but to prove a game is "broken" b/c you can run the same play repeatedly and kick onside kicks to score 70+ points... doesnt give you much cred to me...

and the only thing i saw in the rutgers vs miami vid that needs to be fixed is at the end... the FS (as ive said before) needs more awareness so that he can stay over top instead of getting caught outside the deep push...

"E"

[gschwendt]

this is the kind of stuff that aggravates me... and really why im just not much of a "forum" person anymore... too many people call real football tactics "broken"... this is like people who dont understand overload blitzing and call it nano blitzing... funny stuff... THERE ARE CHANGES THAT NEED TO BE MADE... trust me... but to prove a game is "broken" b/c you can run the same play repeatedly and kick onside kicks to score 70+ points... doesnt give you much cred to me...

Their concerns are valid. Yes most people can control themselves to not abuse the CPU in that manner but the problem is when facing a random player online, they'll abuse the hell out of these tactics.

[CLW]

Steel Cage Online Death match between Rhombic/IOU and Gridiron on release day. Let's make it happen and have a live feed on JTV.

[UGA14]

Well, I'll just say I didn't run the same play over and over again but I still racked up 300 yards passing completing nearly every single pass and beating Oklahoma 35-10.

[xGRIDIRONxGURUx]

Their concerns are valid. Yes most people can control themselves to not abuse the CPU in that manner but the problem is when facing a random player online, they'll abuse the hell out of these tactics.

ill bring up my point ONCE AGAIN then... play-calling... it is YOUR JOB to put people WHERE YOU NEED THEM... it can be done...

i see the concerns... and TO A POINT it has SOME validity... but for the most part other than boosting some zone coverage awareness in whatever way works best... i blame most of it on lazy play-calling... i watched the PSU vs Wash clips... and saw nothing wrong with underneath coverage there... obvioulsy only 2 plays though, so i cant really speculate for the entire game, but YES the deep ball needs some changes mostly on the FS's part...

but even if NO CHANGES are made, im not concerned about anyone abusing me deep if i face a user... but i would like to see some secondary changes made... the positioning of the player is the biggest key... which i assume could be worked in with awareness? i dont pretend to know how these games are coded and what adjustments might effect what we need on the final product, but i do know that positioning by the FS is off

"E"

[rhombic21]

this isnt something thats broke... let me pose a question... when you blitz 3 people to the B and C gaps? with only a G and T to block? yes... a sack... overload blitz...

what happens when you send 3 deep on one side and only a FS and CB to cover...??????? what? are you serious? 3 on 2? OMG this is so broke!!!!

(insert Jeff's comment to cancel pre-orders)

this is the kind of stuff that im talking about... yeah ok vs the CPU... if you want to sit back and run the same play for 2 minutes and either hit a crossing man vs MAN COVERAGE, or overload a zone deep... then by all means... go and be the kind of player that most of us resent...

but at least stop saying its "broke" ive already said... the FS needs some awareness tweaks to help with the overload but to be very honest, that play wont work against another user that much... especially vs me if i see you running it over and over... and run Nickel 2-4-5 DT Blitz, hot route LB's to hook zones... zones underneath to stop the crossing route, and man over the top to protect the deep ball...

this is the kind of stuff that aggravates me... and really why im just not much of a "forum" person anymore... too many people call real football tactics "broken"... this is like people who dont understand overload blitzing and call it nano blitzing... funny stuff... THERE ARE CHANGES THAT NEED TO BE MADE... trust me... but to prove a game is "broken" b/c you can run the same play repeatedly and kick onside kicks to score 70+ points... doesnt give you much cred to me...

and the only thing i saw in the rutgers vs miami vid that needs to be fixed is at the end... the FS (as ive said before) needs more awareness so that he can stay over top instead of getting caught outside the deep push...

"E"

LOL. Dude, there's a reason that teams don't run this play every down in real life. It's not that hard to defend in the real world, but on the game you're pretty well screwed because man coverage never adapts to take away the drag/post patterns and because zone coverage flat out covers the wrong areas.

[I OU a Beatn]

ill bring up my point ONCE AGAIN then... play-calling... it is YOUR JOB to put people WHERE YOU NEED THEM... it can be done...

That is the most ignorant statement I've seen you make yet. I've followed football all my life, and I'm surely not stupid, so I know what play to call in certain situations. It is NOT my job to put the defenders where I need them. I can only control ONE player at a time, so if there's 6 or 7 open areas that can be taken advantage of, which area I choose to defend is going to be a moot point because someone else is going to be open.

It's not just the deep ball. It's entirely too easy to throw short because A. the defender's zones are way too deep and B. the defender will not react to a receiver coming into their zone. They'll just let them hang out there and catch the ball before doing anything. There's also issues with defense against the flats. Once again, part of this is because the zones are setup too deep. They drop to the wrong spot on the field. Combine those issues with the lack of pass rush, the inability for defenders to defend the deep ball correctly, and you've got yourself a recipe that will allow most sensible people to score any time they want.

[rhombic21]

ill bring up my point ONCE AGAIN then... play-calling... it is YOUR JOB to put people WHERE YOU NEED THEM... it can be done...

i see the concerns... and TO A POINT it has SOME validity... but for the most part other than boosting some zone coverage awareness in whatever way works best... i blame most of it on lazy play-calling... i watched the PSU vs Wash clips... and saw nothing wrong with underneath coverage there... obvioulsy only 2 plays though, so i cant really speculate for the entire game, but YES the deep ball needs some changes mostly on the FS's part...

but even if NO CHANGES are made, im not concerned about anyone abusing me deep if i face a user... but i would like to see some secondary changes made... the positioning of the player is the biggest key... which i assume could be worked in with awareness? i dont pretend to know how these games are coded and what adjustments might effect what we need on the final product, but i do know that positioning by the FS is off

"E"
You can't put people where they're supposed to be, because they don't cover the right areas. I'm not sure why you fail to understand this, because it's really not complicated. That's the entire problem here!

[Deuce]

Keep the thoughts and impressions coming. It will be very helpful leading up to release which you will find out about later on.

just read on OS that there will be a day one patch!

[gschwendt]

just read on OS that there will be a day one patch!
Bear in mind though that a Day 1 patch may not address everything that we're finding for them. If they weren't already aware of it, it's unlikely the complaints found from the demo would be fixed. The patch approval process takes approximately a month after the changes are made in-house.

[Kwizzy]

My concern & what I think other people's concerns isn't just this one play. If it's just this ONE play that breaks the defensive AI, that's more acceptable.

The issues people have here are:

A) This appears to be an illustration of an underlying problem with coverage in general. I have personally noticed a LOT of big gains & touchdowns on deep balls. With no manual replay it's tough to tell, but it appears that the defensive AI doesn't handle many of these deep routes well.

B) Even if it's a matter of calling the right defenses, the CPU does not appear to adjust at all when the user is throwing deep balls constantly. If it wont do it when I call the same play over & over, it DEFINITELY wont adjust when I call different plays that attack the same area deep. As a result, in the interest of making the game more realistic, I have to completely abandon a component of my offense because I know the defense can't cover it consistently even when it should know what's coming.

It's the same way with these "nano" blitzes... Yes you're correct that is a completely legit defensive concept in real football. The problem is, there is no counter to it in the game (at least in the pass). Blocking wise there is no way for you to adjust and consistently block it the way teams would in real life.

[Deuce]

Bear in mind though that a Day 1 patch may not address everything that we're finding for them. If they weren't already aware of it, it's unlikely the complaints found from the demo would be fixed. The patch approval process takes approximately a month after the changes are made in-house.

Boo!

[CLW]

just read on OS that there will be a day one patch!

Any word on what issue(s) will be addressed in the day one patch?

[JBHuskers]

Any word on what issue(s) will be addressed in the day one patch?

There should be a blog coming that will explain demo to retail, maybe the first patch will be thrown in there as well.

[xGRIDIRONxGURUx]

It's not just the deep ball. It's entirely too easy to throw short because A. the defender's zones are way too deep and B. the defender will not react to a receiver coming into their zone. They'll just let them hang out there and catch the ball before doing anything. There's also issues with defense against the flats. Once again, part of this is because the zones are setup too deep. They drop to the wrong spot on the field. Combine those issues with the lack of pass rush, the inability for defenders to defend the deep ball correctly, and you've got yourself a recipe that will allow most sensible people to score any time they want.

you can call it an ignorant statement... but in NCAA 10 the people "covering people coming into their zones" was so UNREALISTIC it was pathetic... it was like playing a ton of LB's that can see out of the back of their helmet... i dont care HOW MUCH you have followed football... LB's dont see people behind them... i LIKE the way the drops are done in 11 so far... it creates the windows that are SUPPOSED to open up, as no LB drops to hash, and moves from side to side as people run behind him... that just doesnt happen... so your whole "they dont react to someone entering their zone" doesnt hold much water with me...

but you guys can drop the "ignorant" comments... but your statements dont sound like someone who "follows" football...

"E"

[I OU a Beatn]

So...you believe that when a LB drops into a zone, they just sit there? They don't look around them and pick up receivers that enter their zone? They'll just let them go and practically be wide open? I don't think so. Just like on hook routes. On the game, the receiver will sit down right in front of a LB, and the LB will make no effort whatsoever to get in front of the receiver or even make a play on the ball. He'll let him catch the ball before attempting a tackle. That's not right.

It's pretty obvious there's no sense in arguing with you as you're wearing the thickest EA glasses I've ever seen in my life. So, you keep playing your broken demo/game and act like it's perfect. I, on the other hand, am going to keep playing the demo and pointing out issues in hopes that EA takes notice and actually fixes them so I can enjoy the game more.

[cdj]

Chill out, guys.

We know this is a demo and that there are some issues. We'll find out this week the differences between demo and retail so relax and take a breath.

[xGRIDIRONxGURUx]

ummmm please tell me at what level of football ZONE COVERAGE looks at WR's... and not the QB's... obviously if the WR sits in front... the LB should jump up, and ive not had that problem... but no player EVER drops into zone and looks for WR's... they stare the QB down... yanno... like the drils you start running in youth ball where you back pedal, turn according to eyes and shoulders of coach... and then break on ball when thrown... maybe you dont know that drill

there is no sense in arguing with me... as im not arguing back... im just pointing out that you fall under my category of lazy players... who instead of mixing up man/zone coverage, you want the AI to see people behind them, beside them, and move to them in a ghostly manner using some form of telepathy to suction to WR's behind them...

but its obvious you have no playing background in football... if you think in zone coverage people should look for people instead of staring at the QB... end of discussion for me...

::EDIT::

by "mixing up man/zone coverage" i mean combo coverages... working usually best from 3-4/3-3-5... in which you dont have the conventional 2 deep man under or man free... but you have man over top with underneath zone, and some mixtures of others either from the 3-4 menu, or easily created with simple hot routes...

there is a way to put people where you want, and im not wearing EA glasses... and theres no need to chill out, as im not arguing with anyone who wants a "realistic" game, but doesnt even understand zone principles...

"E"

[I OU a Beatn]

:D

Answer my question. If you're a LB in zone coverage, and a WR comes in and sits down RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, you mean to tell me you're just going to let him catch the ball without making any effort to make a play on the ball?

If people can throw for 500+ yards on an 8 minute demo on the highest difficulty level, don't you think that presents just a little bit of a problem?

[rhombic21]

you can call it an ignorant statement... but in NCAA 10 the people "covering people coming into their zones" was so UNREALISTIC it was pathetic... it was like playing a ton of LB's that can see out of the back of their helmet... i dont care HOW MUCH you have followed football... LB's dont see people behind them... i LIKE the way the drops are done in 11 so far... it creates the windows that are SUPPOSED to open up, as no LB drops to hash, and moves from side to side as people run behind him... that just doesnt happen... so your whole "they dont react to someone entering their zone" doesnt hold much water with me...

but you guys can drop the "ignorant" comments... but your statements dont sound like someone who "follows" football...

"E"
This isn't even about reaction or intelligence in the zone area, at least not entirely.

The linebackers don't drop to the right area. Put the ball on the hashmark. Call a play with hook zones underneath. Watch where the LBs and hook zone players drop to. This happens regardless of rating, skill level, or human/computer. The game is broken and as a result, zone defenses do not work correctly unless the ball is directly in the middle of the field.

[xGRIDIRONxGURUx]

i already answered your question... read my post again...

@rhombic

why on a hash would you not call something with buzz zones... or whats really just "flat" coverage... why would you call "hook zones" on a hash... you have already weakened your defense by calling a bad play...

"E"

[JBHuskers]

The thing that IOU, Rhombic, and Guru need to realize is we're on the demo now, something will be announced soon that will shed a lot of light on things.

[I OU a Beatn]

It's truly a pity the demo doesn't have online functionality. If it did, I would gladly play you and show you exactly what I'm talking about. Granted, some people are stupid and wouldn't know how to take advantage of it(which is the only thing that may save online at this point), but for someone who knows what they're doing, there's absolutely no way you're going to stop them. THAT is the issue I'm worried about.

[I OU a Beatn]

The thing that IOU, Rhombic, and Guru need to realize is we're on the demo now, something will be announced soon that will shed a lot of light on things.

This is true, which is why I'm not full on "WTF EA?" just yet. However, from what I've seen from the demo, I don't know if this is something that can be patched. This was an issue with last year's game as well, and the year before that, IIRC. I'm kind of assuming that it would take a massive overhaul of the entire engine to fully fix this problem, and that's something that obviously is definitely not being done. I am holding out hope that it's not that severe, though.

[rhombic21]

http://www.filefront.com/thankyou.php?f=16780959&k=e6dc64d9b2227a4c4e3a8d1cf7c9d429fa1c7c103c9ab350 406907f992a8a0f3

[rhombic21]

i already answered your question... read my post again...

@rhombic

why on a hash would you not call something with buzz zones... or whats really just "flat" coverage... why would you call "hook zones" on a hash... you have already weakened your defense by calling a bad play...

"E"

I'm not talking about calling a hook to defend the hash. I'm talking about when the ball is on the hashmark pre-snap. Watch what happens to the hook zones that are supposed to be guarding the middle area of the field. They don't cover the proper locations, which results in massive gaps in the coverage where there shouldn't be gaps.

[CLW]

The thing that IOU, Rhombic, and Guru need to realize is we're on the demo now, something will be announced soon that will shed a lot of light on things.

Someone with insider info doesn't seem to be worried about it while reconizing the issue is indeed in the demo. I'll hold out hope its fixed/addressed prior to retail.

[Kwizzy]

Someone with insider info doesn't seem to be worried about it while reconizing the issue is indeed in the demo. I'll hold out hope its fixed/addressed prior to retail.

I think this is a good attitude to take at this point. We've identified some concerns, let's see if/how they've been addressed since the demo build & go from there. At least we've provided some discussion here for EA to consider if they chose to address any issues that haven't been already.

[morsdraconis]

http://www.filefront.com/thankyou.php?f=16780959&k=e6dc64d9b2227a4c4e3a8d1cf7c9d429fa1c7c103c9ab350 406907f992a8a0f3

I don't know why but I just played that game and I saw absolutely no WIDE OPEN plays like you were getting. They were blitzing the hell out of me while covering the bottom middle and giving me no time to throw over top.

Seems to me there is a difference in CPU ability between the 360 and PS3 versions or something because Heisman on the 360 makes it where it's very difficult to consistently exploit that play.

[I OU a Beatn]

I figured out the onside kick rhombic was talking about. Wow. That shit definitely needs patched. It bounces right off the hands team and right to my guys 90% of the time.

[Kwizzy]

Saw this posted elsewhere, not sure where it's from originally but the part in bold is interesting & seems like it could be the additional feature the CD guys have been referring to...


In playing the final build @ E3 its head and shoulders better than the demo. I also heard that they have a way now of tuning the game via an internet connection similar to the way NHL did it last year. Good thing I think. Russ and Ben were great an answered all of my questions even those pertaining to the skating look. Which by the way is much less obvious in the final build however you do see it when a player you're controlling starts to run in a particular direction. They have stated that the software doesnt know which way the actual user will move the player so there is some slight sliding but it goes away once the player moves. It was a legit excuse for giving players total control of the direction they want their players to move

[Kwizzy]

here's a discription from OS of the NHL 10 feature referred to in my previous post:

The tuner set allows up to update various gameplay parameters to tune the game. For online play their is no choice but to get the lastest version (since everyone has to play with the same settings). For offline we plan on maintaining a version history so that you can opt to stay with an earlier version if you prefer how that one played -- so on day one there will probably be a V1.00 (which is basically the demo) and V1.01. If you download the tuning set and do nothing else you will be playing V1.01 because the default is "Latest".

The idea of the whole thing is that we can fine tune the balance of gameplay in response to how the game is being played and any issues that are discovered along the way. Not all problems can be fixed this way, but since we can do this sort of update much more quickly than a title update (aka patch) it should prove to be a useful tool and a number of improvements have already been made based on feedback from the demo.

[CLW]

So.... that brings about 2 questions. #1 Is a "tuner set" (like in NHL 10) programmed into NCAA 11. If yes, #2 Can the "tuner set" fix the pass coverage (greatest concern) and pass rush (less concern) issues?

[Kwizzy]

So.... that brings about 2 questions. #1 Is a "tuner set" (like in NHL 10) programmed into NCAA 11. If yes, #2 Can the "tuner set" fix the pass coverage (greatest concern) and pass rush (less concern) issues?

Well it says some issues can't be fixed using these tuner sets & some can. If this is the last feature, I'm sure we'll get a blog to describe it's abilities & limitations.

[AustinWolv]

The mere point is that what he's seeing could give people fits online against each other.

PS3 in one variable. Another is those who user-catch and those that don't, considering that I'm seeing catches and knockdowns in the video where a defender is there but he's user-catching, not to mention a couple picks and dropped picks.

As for the onsides kicks, would a human be able to switch to the hands team guy and hit the catch button to combat it? Can't tell that against the CPU. Could mess up a random OD though if people were dishonest.

[xGRIDIRONxGURUx]

if you are on the RIGHT HASH

|---------------------|------------------------------|<ball here-----------------|

and you call a 3-4 cover 2 for example... the 4 drop tp HOOK ZONES... do you know what a HOOK ZONE IS? its not the flats.... they arent responsible to spread over by the play art given... your best bet is cover 2 and hot route the FIELD OLB to a buzz zone... and user the ILB to the FIELD...

this isnt even an "EA" thing... its just plain and simple play-calling...

if this game does have a tuner... thats going to be straight up NICE though, so these sort of things can find a happy medium even between people like myself, rhombic, and IOU...

"E"

[I OU a Beatn]

The problem is that the exact same problem existed last year, so I'm beginning to think it's an issue with the engine itself. If so, that tuner isn't going to help a thing. Nothing would fix it other than a complete engine overhaul, which would mean next year(maybe). Of course, it might not be an issue with the engine, I don't know. I do know that when something isn't fixed from the previous year, it's something complicated or laziness on the developer's part.

[Kwizzy]

if you are on the RIGHT HASH

|---------------------|------------------------------|<ball here-----------------|

and you call a 3-4 cover 2 for example... the 4 drop tp HOOK ZONES... do you know what a HOOK ZONE IS? its not the flats.... they arent responsible to spread over by the play art given... your best bet is cover 2 and hot route the FIELD OLB to a buzz zone... and user the ILB to the FIELD...

this isnt even an "EA" thing... its just plain and simple play-calling...

if this game does have a tuner... thats going to be straight up NICE though, so these sort of things can find a happy medium even between people like myself, rhombic, and IOU...

"E"

Ok so what is the CPU supposed to do? Your solution just involved a hot route & a user controlled move out of the assigned zone. Not trying to attack you just trying to make you see why there needs to be a major adjustment by EA to the way zones are assigned in plays & the way the players cover those areas.

[AustinWolv]

^^^this.

Especially since if you are playing the CPU or a human doing things fast, they aren't waiting on you to finish your hot routes, etc.

[JBHuskers]

Since it has now been outted....there will be a blog on Live Tuning coming up soon (before release I think). It is similar to Tiger Woods...where in 10, it was introduced for the first time. It allows the team to adjust certain parts of the game on the fly.

For example....in Tiger, they could tune down how far a driver can drive the ball on the fly live, without the need of a patch.

[Deuce]

I guess the question is...can tuning correct the def back Ai and/or the pass rush?

[JBHuskers]

I guess the question is...can tuning correct the def back Ai and/or the pass rush?

Not sure, there will be a blog explaining it down the road. Maybe sooner than later since people know about it now.

[AustinWolv]

Nifty, looking forward to details in the blog.

[CLW]

To those who have played other games with this "tuning" feature. How well has it addressed issue(s) in other titles? Specific examples? Just curious as to whether this will "really" help or if its mostly "fluff".

[JBHuskers]

To those who have played other games with this "tuning" feature. How well has it addressed issue(s) in other titles? Specific examples? Just curious as to whether this will "really" help or if its mostly "fluff".

In terms of Tiger, it definitely helped with several of the issues the community had. Mainly driving distance for one. Lots of people thought it was still too powerful after they had initially lowered the distances. It wasn't realistic, and so they went in and tuned it again. Now I'm not 100% sure on what the NCAA Football Live Tuning is going to entail....hence we just need to wait for a blog.

[Rudy]

I talked to my brother about how this was in NHL and he said it worked really well. Before one of these he said the goalies were over-powered. A tuning set came out and the goalies were a lot better afterwards. You can't fix animations, graphics or art but it seems that a tuning patch would act as strong as a slider change to default settings or a massive roster edit.

[CLW]

I talked to my brother about how this was in NHL and he said it worked really well. Before one of these he said the goalies were over-powered. A tuning set came out and the goalies were a lot better afterwards. You can't fix animations, graphics or art but it seems that a tuning patch would act as strong as a slider change to default settings or a massive roster edit.

It SOUNDS like this sort of thing SHOULD be able to adjust DB Awareness/Reaction Time then. I guess we will probably here about this tomorrow.

[Rudy]

Here are some comments from my brother (Money99 on OS and community member for Fight Night) as well as the EA NHL guy:

The first quote is from my brother talking about tuning sets in NHL 10:
"I think NHL10 had about 3 of them last year. There's no choice in what parts of the tuner you want to use. The only thing you can do is choose to use the tuner, or not.

In NHL10 the tuners could make quite a difference. In one, the goalies went from being unbeatable, to acting quite human. So the possibilities are nearly endless with what the developers can do as far as fixing and tweaking.

But stuff like adding different camera angles, more stats, engine overhauls, can't be changed with a tuner.
It's just like it sounds. So if in NCAA11 people complain that the QB's are too accurate on long bombs, or defensive backs are too explosive off the line, they can change that. But anything that needs to be changed to the engine, for instance, can only be changed by a patch.

(different PM)...So while it can't change fundamental portions of the engine (like running animations) it can change things so the gameplay can be tweaked without doing any massive patch."


This quote is from the EA guy working on NHL 10 (Red_shirt on OS) http://www.operationsports.com/vBulletin/ea-sports-nhl/403848-there-gonna-new-tuner-set.html#post2040867487 :

"If by keep skating you mean have their legs move while they are doing a stick sweep (/poke check) then that wouldn't be possible with a tuning update. With a tuning update we can only change the value of numbers that are already used by existing systems, we can't change the logic of the system or add new systems. So we could make it so you are more capable of accelerating and turning while doing the stick sweep, but we couldn't change the fact that the stick sweep stops the legs from moving.

If you did mean just the ability to accelerate, based on my experience playing and the general feedback from the last tuning I would be inclined to reduce the ability to accelerate while poking/sweeping because the consensus seems to be that it is if anything too effective now. "

[Deuce]

Here are some comments from my brother (Money99 on OS and community member for Fight Night) as well as the EA NHL guy:

The first quote is from my brother talking about tuning sets in NHL 10:
"I think NHL10 had about 3 of them last year. There's no choice in what parts of the tuner you want to use. The only thing you can do is choose to use the tuner, or not.

In NHL10 the tuners could make quite a difference. In one, the goalies went from being unbeatable, to acting quite human. So the possibilities are nearly endless with what the developers can do as far as fixing and tweaking.

But stuff like adding different camera angles, more stats, engine overhauls, can't be changed with a tuner.
It's just like it sounds. So if in NCAA11 people complain that the QB's are too accurate on long bombs, or defensive backs are too explosive off the line, they can change that. But anything that needs to be changed to the engine, for instance, can only be changed by a patch.

(different PM)...So while it can't change fundamental portions of the engine (like running animations) it can change things so the gameplay can be tweaked without doing any massive patch."


This quote is from the EA guy working on NHL 10 (Red_shirt on OS) http://www.operationsports.com/vBulletin/ea-sports-nhl/403848-there-gonna-new-tuner-set.html#post2040867487 :

"If by keep skating you mean have their legs move while they are doing a stick sweep (/poke check) then that wouldn't be possible with a tuning update. With a tuning update we can only change the value of numbers that are already used by existing systems, we can't change the logic of the system or add new systems. So we could make it so you are more capable of accelerating and turning while doing the stick sweep, but we couldn't change the fact that the stick sweep stops the legs from moving.

If you did mean just the ability to accelerate, based on my experience playing and the general feedback from the last tuning I would be inclined to reduce the ability to accelerate while poking/sweeping because the consensus seems to be that it is if anything too effective now. "

This sounds promising to me. With the pass rush its only a matter of being outmatched by the OL. With tuning the I think they could even out the DL/OL. The DB's might be a different story. I'm sure they can tweak their awareness and acceleration but can they tune how they react to someone in their zone?

[xGRIDIRONxGURUx]

the problem with EA's zone coverage is that they dont allow the "hook zone" to roam... unless you play NCAA 10 and a hook zone would drop from the "box" (tackle to tackle) and would mirror WR's that ran behind him... the thing is, if they are just going to give us "hook/yellow" and "buzz/purple" they need to design the play art to allow for a true hook, a true CURL, a TRUE FLAT, and a TRUE half/quarters coverage by CB's...

but until they fix that i just use my buzz zones in combo with cover 3 rolls/and cover 2's... no stock defense is going to work all the time the way its drawn up... doesnt mean its broken... it would be broken if we didnt have hot routes... lol

"E"

[Kwizzy]

the problem with EA's zone coverage is that they dont allow the "hook zone" to roam... unless you play NCAA 10 and a hook zone would drop from the "box" (tackle to tackle) and would mirror WR's that ran behind him... the thing is, if they are just going to give us "hook/yellow" and "buzz/purple" they need to design the play art to allow for a true hook, a true CURL, a TRUE FLAT, and a TRUE half/quarters coverage by CB's...

but until they fix that i just use my buzz zones in combo with cover 3 rolls/and cover 2's... no stock defense is going to work all the time the way its drawn up... doesnt mean its broken... it would be broken if we didnt have hot routes... lol

"E"

That's our point though, when the CPU can't utilize those hot routes the zones are "broken". & that's what everyone is trying to say here. The way the plays are currently drawn/assigned & the way the players actually move and cover, are not the same and therefore uneffective. We're not saying that you can't work around it to some extent in certain situations but why not point out these things so that EA knows they are an issue. There's a difference between "bashing EA" & constructive criticism. Rhombic is simply pointing out something he has found that needs to be brought to their attention.

[Kwizzy]

Has anyone else noticed that the DBs tend to whiff alot when they're in position & swat for the ball? Also, when I'm manually controlling the DTs & use the right stick to perform a spin move my guy almost always falls down. Anyone else noticing these things?

[cdj]

Also, when I'm manually controlling the DTs & use the right stick to perform a spin move my guy almost always falls down. Anyone else noticing these things?

I've noticed that happens more frequently when holding Sprint. Try not using R2/Rt and he rarely falls down.

[rhombic21]

if you are on the RIGHT HASH

|---------------------|------------------------------|<ball here-----------------|

and you call a 3-4 cover 2 for example... the 4 drop tp HOOK ZONES... do you know what a HOOK ZONE IS? its not the flats.... they arent responsible to spread over by the play art given... your best bet is cover 2 and hot route the FIELD OLB to a buzz zone... and user the ILB to the FIELD...

this isnt even an "EA" thing... its just plain and simple play-calling...

if this game does have a tuner... thats going to be straight up NICE though, so these sort of things can find a happy medium even between people like myself, rhombic, and IOU...

"E"
Do that. And watch where the strongside ILB and OLB drop to. There will be a huge gap between your manual controlled ILB and the ILB to your left. If you're in a 4-3 and do that, then there will be a huge gap between you and the OLB to the field side. And a huge gap between the middle of the field and the short side numbers, where your weakside LB is supposed to cover, but won't.

Further, that essentially means that you have to control a specific player every down, which limits other coverages that you can call. If, for example, you come with a zone blitz that has the MLB blitzing and some other player dropping back to fill in his zone, then it won't work correctly.

Just admit it dude. It's broken.

[JeffHCross]

To those who have played other games with this "tuning" feature. How well has it addressed issue(s) in other titles? Specific examples? Just curious as to whether this will "really" help or if its mostly "fluff".Tuning has helped NHL considerably. It's basically a patch to the AI/sliders/difficulty without EA actually having to go through the patch process. It's amazing.

[beartide06]

I've noticed that happens more frequently when holding Sprint. Try not using R2/Rt and he rarely falls down.

I have also noticed this. It's like the sprint causes this to happen. I have gotten tons of pressure WITHOUT holding sprint while engaged, then once I'm free i hold sprint to go after the QB and it works like a charm....

In a sense that's realistic beacuse you cannot sprint while being engaged by an OL lol

[cdj]

I have also noticed this. It's like the sprint causes this to happen. I have gotten tons of pressure WITHOUT holding sprint while engaged, then once I'm free i hold sprint to go after the QB and it works like a charm....

In a sense that's realistic beacuse you cannot sprint while being engaged by an OL lol

It makes sense when you put it that way. I'll have to make sure to turn Auto Sprint on each game and see if the same thing happens, but I assume that it would.

[beartide06]

It makes sense when you put it that way. I'll have to make sure to turn Auto Sprint on each game and see if the same thing happens, but I assume that it would.

Yeah. I also noticed that when auto sprint is on WRs will adjust better if you don't control them for those who do not user catch, The QB does not do any stopping motion when approaching the LOS, and I think you get better pressure honestly.

Now can you still use the sprint whenever you want even with auto sprint on?

[cdj]

Now can you still use the sprint whenever you want even with auto sprint on?

I've wondered that as well. That would be something a dev would probably have to answer. I cannot tell for sure.

[JeffHCross]

It has been said you can sprint even with Auto Sprint on. But, like the question of whether or not Slide Protection influences running plays, it is difficult at best to tell.

It's truly a pity the demo doesn't have online functionality.I'm sure you agree with me that it would be an absolutely horrible business decision for EA to give online access to demo users. The drop in sales would probably be staggering.

(insert Jeff's comment to cancel pre-orders):D Dude, I was kidding. In fact, I was mocking.

[beartide06]

I've wondered that as well. That would be something a dev would probably have to answer. I cannot tell for sure.

Yeah well If so then I wouldn't see why you wouldn't want auto sprint on at all times. It would help with some issues and essentially make you play a little better.

[JeffHCross]

Yeah well If so then I wouldn't see why you wouldn't want auto sprint on at all times.In theory, while there are times when the game would not have Auto Sprint on but you would like to sprint, there are also times that the game would trigger Auto Sprint that the user would not want to.

I say in theory because I know in reality most of us are just mashing the Sprint button the entire game.

[morsdraconis]

I've used nothing but auto-sprint and I'm loving it. There's a weird iceskating look sometimes with the really fast guys (which is disappointing but hopefully fixed in the final version) but, other then that, there's never been a time where I felt like I got cheated because the game sprinted when I wouldn't have. It seems to do a VERY good job of knowing when and when not to sprint.

[mundo]

I remember when I used to take video games really, really seriously... like some here. After reading certain posts on here and glancing on the "other" board, I am glad I don't anymore. Its a lot more fun to take it as it is.

[mundo]

And for the record its 9pm in Honolulu, Hawaii. I am not actually up checking a gaming website at 2AM central (Houston/home). It would be pretty sad if I were.

[Rudy]

I've only tried a couple games of auto-sprint and I don't really notice a huge difference but I won't be using it. I like having that control in the game and I'm staying on the dark side!!

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/rudyjuly2/NCAA%2011/darth-vader-luketurbobutton.jpg

[iBrandon]

So I tried the 5 WR Verticle and wow...

With Pryor I went 17-23, 322 yards and 5 TD's. Plus, I was able to recover every onside kick. ::::smh::::


I can't tell the difference between auto sprint on and off. Maybe I'm not looking at the right thing.

[CLW]

I tried the auto sprint in a couple of games and still found myself mashing on the R2. It will take some time to get used to but I think it could be a welcomed change.

[Deuce]

I've pretty much stopped playing the demo. There's two reasons for this 1) even I have noticed how bad the DB AI is. Running the ball is a blast but that takes me to reason #2. 2) I want the retail to feel new and still want that learning curve so I can struggle even more early on and hopefully extend my dynasty.

This game has a lot of potential but the db ai must be fixed or playing the CPU will be worthless. ...and hopefully they can tweak the dl pass rush as well.

[Rudy]

Lost in triple OT to Miami after the game ended 0-0 (Heisman - I'm not as good as you guys). I threw a pick in their end zone at the end of the first half and then fumbled on their 15 with 20 seconds left. I saw a stat overlay! I'm assuming OSU's RB is Boom Herron and it popped up after I hit 100 yards (14 for 102 at the time). That was the most fun I had with the running game. I still think I'd actually like to see heavier locomotion when using a player. The most noticeable effect imo is the affect on the blocking. The double team blocking and using your blockers and defenders momentum against them is really fun. Can't wait to get the full game and use my power running attack.

I also saw Jacory Harris completely overthrow an open WR on Heisman. I just hope the crappy QBs on Heisman still play like crappy QBs. Heisman often turns ALL QBs into good players. The head tracking is very good imo. Maybe not from a WR actually turning his head early to pull in a ball (can't tell without replay and if you have to use replay to find flaws you have too much time on your hands) but from a DB not cheating after you throw it. I threw a few crossing patterns and other cpu DBs were oblivious to the play when their backs were turned.

I do see problems in the zone coverage but by the time I read it I'm on my back like a turtle. Haven't tried an onside kick but I hope they can patch/tune that aspect.

[beartide06]

Well now the more I have played it, I found that there are more flaws. I am not trying to rant and i really hope to hear the blog about the differences from demo to retail because I have found too many things that bother me.... This is very sad because I was so excited and I thought it was going to be much better than it has been, yes it's better in a sense, but I am just disappointed in some things. I agree DB AI is bad and again, I look forward to the blog about the differences of the demo and retail, along with what the day one patch will contain.

[Coachdenz]

I have played 4 games, and the last one I scored 34 points and give up 3 on All American, this kinda seems like Wide Open Offense 2.0, also just ran the same defensive play the whole game. Here's hoping the retail is better than the demo......Cheers!

[Deuce]

Lost in triple OT to Miami after the game ended 0-0 (Heisman - I'm not as good as you guys). I threw a pick in their end zone at the end of the first half and then fumbled on their 15 with 20 seconds left. I saw a stat overlay! I'm assuming OSU's RB is Boom Herron and it popped up after I hit 100 yards (14 for 102 at the time). That was the most fun I had with the running game. I still think I'd actually like to see heavier locomotion when using a player. The most noticeable effect imo is the affect on the blocking. The double team blocking and using your blockers and defenders momentum against them is really fun. Can't wait to get the full game and use my power running attack.

I also saw Jacory Harris completely overthrow an open WR on Heisman. I just hope the crappy QBs on Heisman still play like crappy QBs. Heisman often turns ALL QBs into good players. The head tracking is very good imo. Maybe not from a WR actually turning his head early to pull in a ball (can't tell without replay and if you have to use replay to find flaws you have too much time on your hands) but from a DB not cheating after you throw it. I threw a few crossing patterns and other cpu DBs were oblivious to the play when their backs were turned.

I do see problems in the zone coverage but by the time I read it I'm on my back like a turtle. Haven't tried an onside kick but I hope they can patch/tune that aspect.

Rudy, I've always played on All-American. Do you feel you get a better game on Heisman?

[oweb26]

Long live analog! Listen to vinyl!

Duece you are after my heart....lol

[Deuce]

Long live analog! Listen to vinyl!

Duece you are after my heart....lol

Nice! We may need to move this convo to the music thread so we can discuss further. :D What kinda music you in to?

[Rudy]

Rudy, I've always played on All-American. Do you feel you get a better game on Heisman?

I'm normally an AA guy myself. It's just that the cpu offense is too lousy on the demo. I will definitely start out on AA when I get the game and tweak sliders as necessary. The cpu pass blocking on Heisman is too good and he sits back there all day on that difficulty level.

With formation subs the package system is probably not necessary anymore and I don't see it on the menu. Were they removed from the game?

[Deuce]

I'm normally an AA guy myself. It's just that the cpu offense is too lousy on the demo. I will definitely start out on AA when I get the game and tweak sliders as necessary. The cpu pass blocking on Heisman is too good and he sits back there all day on that difficulty level.

With formation subs the package system is probably not necessary anymore and I don't see it on the menu. Were they removed from the game?

Cool...thanks for the info. I've never been a fan of Heisman either.

[oweb26]

Any word when they are going to post what differences are going to be between the demo and the final game?

Maybe I should say what fixes will be in the game.

[Rudy]

Adam Thompson was supposed to be writing that blog because all the big wigs were at E3. I guess it got delayed.

[cdj]

With formation subs the package system is probably not necessary anymore and I don't see it on the menu. Were they removed from the game?

Pretty sure they are still in, but only accessible at certain points in the playcall screen. With such short quarters, I haven't bothered with either Formation Subs or Package Subs in the demo.


Any word when they are going to post what differences are going to be between the demo and the final game?

Maybe I should say what fixes will be in the game.

I'd guess Monday or very early next week for that blog.

[AustinWolv]

Packaged subs are in, I remember seeing it in the playcall screen.

I use Heisman. AA is always too easy, regardless of sliders, and then go through a slider-adjusting phase on Heisman that always drives me nuts. I need to learn to just play and stop messing with them all the time to find the 'perfect' set.

[oweb26]

Packaged subs are in, I remember seeing it in the playcall screen.

I use Heisman. AA is always too easy, regardless of sliders, and then go through a slider-adjusting phase on Heisman that always drives me nuts. I need to learn to just play and stop messing with them all the time to find the 'perfect' set.


Yeah I Just get a set of sliders and run with it, I try not to think of what I Can make better because all I do is fuck something else up worse...guess thats what EA goes through sometimes..lol.

Really though you wont get that perfect set just find that "happy medium"

[oweb26]

Pretty sure they are still in, but only accessible at certain points in the playcall screen. With such short quarters, I haven't bothered with either Formation Subs or Package Subs in the demo.



I'd guess Monday or very early next week for that blog.

Man I still don't know how to double quote. 6 yrs on a message board and you would think I would have figured it out.

[Deuce]

I'd guess Monday or very early next week for that blog.

I'm kinda surprised we haven't heard much from the people at E3 that have played both the demo and the E3 version. Didn't Pasta and a few others at OS do this?

[Deuce]

Yeah I Just get a set of sliders and run with it, I try not to think of what I Can make better because all I do is fuck something else up worse...guess thats what EA goes through sometimes..lol.

Really though you wont get that perfect set just find that "happy medium"

I've found that its best to use someone else's sliders. I find it easier to stop tweaking that way...mostly b/c I know most people are a lot more analytical about the game than I am.

[cdj]

I'm kinda surprised we haven't heard much from the people at E3 that have played both the demo and the E3 version. Didn't Pasta and a few others at OS do this?

I think most of them started travelling on Monday, so they didn't get to play the demo before heading to E3.

[JBHuskers]

I'm kinda surprised we haven't heard much from the people at E3 that have played both the demo and the E3 version. Didn't Pasta and a few others at OS do this?


I think most of them started travelling on Monday, so they didn't get to play the demo before heading to E3.

And some are just now getting back today.

[Rudy]

I've found that its best to use someone else's sliders. I find it easier to stop tweaking that way...mostly b/c I know most people are a lot more analytical about the game than I am.

I always use my own sliders but I take a look at others to see how they handle certain issues some times. Plus I know some guys are similar to me. J-Unit40 on OS sliders are usually pretty close to mine although I like more broken tackles and better pass protection. He gets the game early so I will look at what he does to help me get a start on mine.

The key is really to know when to stop adjusting and a lot of that has to do with the ability to recognize you can't fix everything. I don't think NCAA 11 will need as many changes as I've had to do in the past. NCAA 09 was really hard that way. I ended up trying three different difficulty levels and constant tweaking to finally come up with something I was pretty happy with for myself. However, for my baseball games I can usually come up with a good base set within 10 games and just tweak a little from there. For the Show 09 I must have played about 75 games without touching a slider once I was happy. For MLB 2K10 (that required more work since the default was pretty bad) I probably played about 20 games, made a couple small tweaks, and have played another 15 games without touching a slider.

One thing that has bothered me a little throughout the years are guys who think their slider set is perfect or their roster editing fixes everything. With so many gamers with different abilities, expectations, etc. there is NO such thing as a perfect slider set. Even the guy who releases the perfect slider set is eventually releasing perfect slider set 4.32. What works for me might be awful for someone else. You just have to find a set that's compatible for your playing style - a perfect set only exists for individuals and not a mass audience.

[CLW]

I'm still seeing a TON of fumbles. In a Clemson Mizzou game there were 6 combined. Also, the CPU seems to be insanely aggressive with the amount of blitzes being called.

[Rudy]

I'm actually seeing less fumbles lately although the QB really seems to cough up the ball. I don't mind the sack-fumble plays but a scrambling QB like Pryor shouldn't be dropping the ball all over the place when he's getting hit at the end of a run.

[Deuce]

And some are just now getting back today.

Ohhh gotcha. That makes sense. :o

[Deuce]

I've been doing a lot of thinking (scary, I know) about the coverage issues. My concern is if they fix the deep stuff by raising awareness or whatever, is it going to make other passes too tough? Maybe they can tune by short zone, med zone, deep zone?? ...I don't know. I'm wondering if the ball speed could be adjusted. If they can slow down the speed of the ball that would help the reaction time of the DB's w/o really affecting the short passing game. Also, I've heard people mention the pass rush. If you pay close attention in real football there is a guy that's open pretty much every play. The difference is the QB can only truly see 1 to 2 receivers at a time while we (user QB) can see all 5. Maybe they have something like this already in the game but I think adding a 'pocket confidence' attribute to QB's might help. Basically create an invisible halo around the QB and the closer a def player gets to that halo the more his accuracy drops. (How many times do we see wide open receivers missed b/c of pressure in real life?...quite a few) This would make moving around in the pocket a lot more important. They would also need to tweak how the dline plays. Not necessarily increasing sacks but pushing the OL towards the QB...simply put, more pressure w/o more sacks. On the other hand though, how would they fix people running out of the pocket? Would users just call rollout plays every time? I get there is really no way to stop people from taking advantage of the AI (other people need to realize this as well) but I think there are some things they can do to help.

I know nothing about programming or how the engine works but hopefully this spurs some more thoughts on things that can be done to help. What do you guys think?

[JeffHCross]

One interesting observation about the demo. If you went to the "On-Demand" section of the demo (I think it's under Latest News) on Tuesday, and you go today, it has changed. Don't know how they did this, or really why, but it's pretty cool to note. No significant changes, but I think an extra video was loaded and they also changed the menu structure inside the section.

[Solidice]

One interesting observation about the demo. If you went to the "On-Demand" section of the demo (I think it's under Latest News) on Tuesday, and you go today, it has changed. Don't know how they did this, or really why, but it's pretty cool to note. No significant changes, but I think an extra video was loaded and they also changed the menu structure inside the section.

those videos are likely just streamed and not actually part of the demo download. although, I haven't actually tried to play the demo offline to test that.

[JeffHCross]

The videos are likely streamed, I agree. But they changed the menu to include it. Even if it's retrieving that menu from an outside source, that's impressive. It's also something I wouldn't really expect from a demo.

[JeffHCross]

Man I still don't know how to double quote. 6 yrs on a message board and you would think I would have figured it out.If you look at the bottom of every post, there's "Reply", "Reply with Quote" and a quote box with a plus next to it. Hit the one with the plus on multiple posts, and when you hit Reply to Thread at the end of the page (or, I think, Reply With Quote on a later post), all the posts you've clicked on will be quoted.

[Jayrah]

I really, really like the "confidence/halo" concept that deuce suggested. Although it seems like something similar is already enveloped in the qb play. The announcers will talk about pressure even when there's little to no contact and on several of those occasions the qb has overthrown his wr substantially. So to me it seems like it's there, but a rating to give an idea of how much that will affect said qb, would be nice.

[JeffHCross]

I don't think a pocket rating is the way to go. It would end up looking a lot like the AWR rating, in that the older players automatically would have high ratings. Even Ricky Stanzi would probably earn a high enough rating, and I think we can all agree that his pocket composure isn't great.

Deuce, Jayrah, I think this would interest you, along these subject lines: http://www.thegamingtailgate.com/forums/showthread.php?96-Rating-Quarterback-Decision-Making

I think the design of the controls is such that we're supposed to be "hurried" into throwing a not-so-precise pass ... that's why bullet passes take longer than lob passes. The reality is that the bullets are still incredibly quick to throw, so you end up being accurate more times than you probably should be.

[Jayrah]

Yeah Jeff, I saw that on Utopia. It sounded kinda cool, but there's a lot of numbers. I'm not a "deep" numbers guy, though I like a limited amount :). I just can't think that far.

[JeffHCross]

CD guys, any comment?


In the 360 Demo, I have run a number of option plays with QB Autothrow ON. I have yet to see the QB pitch the ball to the trailing back.

EA - please comment on my observation. Will the QB pitch the ball to the trailing back with QB Autothrow ON?

Art

[cdj]

CD guys, any comment?

I missed that post in this thread.

To be honest, I didn't look at Auto-Pass (Coach Mode) at the event. I'll give it a look and if others see the same issue, post here and we'll pass it on. That would be a pretty annoying and bad issue for the CM community.

[JeffHCross]

That wasn't in our thread, actually. It's been posted a handful of times (by the same guy) on another forum. Figured I'd give him some help.

[JeffHCross]

Here's one worth passing along ... in Oklahoma's 5WR Trips formation, there's a play called Inside Smash. The right-side Slot receiver runs a double-move that turns into a streak. However ... you can't throw to him. He comes up pre-play as L1. But you can't actually use that button to throw to him, and he doesn't display a button during the play.

[steelerfan]

I've had a couple of unique things happen in the last few games I've played. First of all, I am a stickler for ST sliders. I spend alot of time each year in Practice Mode using the best and worst kickers getting them right. Because of that, in 10, if I wasnt really accurate I would shank extra points. To combat that I developed a habit of kicking PATs with the lowest tragectory to reduce the distance the ball has to travel which, in turn, reduces the need to be as accurate.

I carried this habit into the 11 demo and a few days ago I had a PAT partially blocked but it was still good. I thought that was pretty cool and it gives some hope that at least low kicks may blocked this year. It was blocked by a lineman jumping at the LOS, btw.

Today I played as UT and, using a DT, I wrapped up the OU HB in the backfield. I was holding the Strip Ball button so I didn't take him down, I just stood him up. Soon, Pro-Tak kicked in and I had several team mates joining in. We stopped his forward progress and the whistle blew ending the play without the HB going to the ground.

I didn't play Madden 10 so I don't know if this is somewhat common with Pro-Tak but I thought it was pretty nice to see.

[steelerfan]

Have any of you been looking at any of the Dynasties on DynastyWire? I spent some time on looking at the one that Ben Haumiller is in. I am a bit disappointed to see highlights of receivers running wide open and averaging 30+ YPC. Also, I noticed that there have been some turnover fests (saw a game with 8). It appears they are using 6 minute quarters, though it's tough to say for sure since I see that the TOP has not been fixed (still has TOP adding up to uneven amounts).

I'm still looking forward to the game, don't get me wrong, I just hoped to see better things than I have.

[HuskerBlitz]

Where can you find the Dynasty Wire link that he's in?

[steelerfan]

Where can you find the Dynasty Wire link that he's in?


http://www.easports.com/dynasty#module=moduleDynastyLanding&dynid=1&sku=662A0001

[HuskerBlitz]

Thanks!

[Kwizzy]

Yeah, I've been checking out some of the dynasty wire stuff & there are quite a few things that need some fixing. The rushing totals do not display. The interception ( & maybe fumble) stats don't always match between player stats & team stats. The stories seem to display in a random order & it's tough to tell what teams are user controlled (the "user controlled teams only" check box doesn't work). It's definitely got potential but there are some definite issues to be worked out IMO.

[gschwendt]

Yeah, I've been checking out some of the dynasty wire stuff & there are quite a few things that need some fixing. The rushing totals do not display. The interception ( & maybe fumble) stats don't always match between player stats & team stats. The stories seem to display in a random order & it's tough to tell what teams are user controlled (the "user controlled teams only" check box doesn't work). It's definitely got potential but there are some definite issues to be worked out IMO.
The good news is that since it's completely web-based, they can do updates to it at any time.

[Kwizzy]

The good news is that since it's completely web-based, they can do updates to it at any time.

Oh yeah I"m sure these things will be addressed, & if they are this thing will be really fun and addicting. I almost wish I couldn't get to it at work! :D

[Rudy]

I'm still not very happy with the 3 play call screen. I hope the lag is gone on the retail version because calling defensive plays within 10 seconds will force you to be very quick.

[mundo]

I'm still not very happy with the 3 play call screen. I hope the lag is gone on the retail version because calling defensive plays within 10 seconds will force you to be very quick.

agree. I found myself rushed on D at times in 10. This would be even worse.

[Jayrah]

I'm still not very happy with the 3 play call screen. I hope the lag is gone on the retail version because calling defensive plays within 10 seconds will force you to be very quick.

Yeah I don't like the new system either. It's not easy to find plays. Maybe if they had a way to move three plays at a time instead of one then it might be easier. And if you use the stick it's very difficult not to change formations, you have to be darn near perfect side to side.

[steelerfan]

Yeah I don't like the new system either. It's not easy to find plays. Maybe if they had a way to move three plays at a time instead of one then it might be easier. And if you use the stick it's very difficult not to change formations, you have to be darn near perfect side to side.

You can move 3 plays at a time using the Bluff feature (hold L2 on PS3). It's a PITA but better than nothing.

I'm not sure why they insist on re-inventing the wheel. Every time they change the interface, it gets worse.

[Jayrah]

Three things I noticed tonight.

1. First time I've ever seen a spot reversed correctly to give a first down when I was marked short! This is awesome as it cost me several possessions in the past years.

2. Clean hits in this game are just impressive. I got straight shoulder dropped to the turf tonight and I felt it in my seat! It was awesome.

3. When the cpu goes no huddle (AA and Heisman), they are very tough to stop. This is a great thing. Good base defense is very necessary. And getting pressure somehow in that defense is going to be even more critical. However even with that I don't see scoring fests like in years past. Still high, but that's consistent with college football if you ask me. I get more excited every day I play the demo. Luckily it's almost time for the real thing.

Glitch/bad AI move: Cpu makes PAT, I was offsides, and they decide to kick it again. hmmmm. Makes me wonder their thinking on FG's with this incident. Last season the cpu kept 3 pts on the board against me instead of going first and 10 inside the red zone in a situation where they really could've used 7 pts.

[Rudy]

You can move 3 plays at a time using the Bluff feature (hold L2 on PS3). It's a PITA but better than nothing.

I'm not sure why they insist on re-inventing the wheel. Every time they change the interface, it gets worse.

The bluff feature is nice but why isn't that the default system? It's much better and I wouldn't have to hold down L2 all the time. I'd still like to see more than 3 plays at a time.

[souljahbill]

I can not get a handle of Mizoo's offense. I can acclimate to every team's offense in the demo but them. I always suck when playing as Missouri.

[steelerfan]

The bluff feature is nice but why isn't that the default system? It's much better and I wouldn't have to hold down L2 all the time.

This was done to offset the fact that you no longer have to hold R2 to sprint.

Makes you feel more involved.:D:(

[JBHuskers]

Played the demo last night so I could unlock the Pro Combat unis again with the new PS3. I'm not done teasing yet, but I noticed somethings from demo to retail back to the demo :popcorn:

[steelerfan]

JB, don't tempt Karma.

Didn't you learn anything last weekend? :P

[Rudy]

This was done to offset the fact that you no longer have to hold R2 to sprint.

Makes you feel more involved.:D:(

No way baby! I'm still a manual turbo guy!

[Rudy]

I think we need a "town hall meeting" with JB!

http://cravensworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/town-hall-meeting.jpg

[JBHuskers]

:D :D :D

[psusnoop]

LOL that is funny.


Come the 9th at midnight, you three better be ready. Better start stretching around 11pm tomorrow night.

[JBHuskers]

LOL that is funny.


Come the 9th at midnight, you three better be ready. Better start stretching around 11pm tomorrow night.

Just to clarify, it's not a midnight on the 9th....the embargo is lifted at 11am central/12pm eastern on 7/9 (Friday morning/afternoon)

[razorback44]

I can not get a handle of Mizoo's offense. I can acclimate to every team's offense in the demo but them. I always suck when playing as Missouri.

I'm with you on this one. I can run all the offenses fine in the demo but Mizzou's. I am miserable playing with them. It may be because I am a pro style guy and don't run much spread or shotgun at all for that matter. However, I didn't think it would be that big of a deal since its just versus the CPU but no, I am absolutely miserable using their offense. Definitely think I am going to stick to my pro style roots again this year.

[Jayrah]

Played the demo last night so I could unlock the Pro Combat unis again with the new PS3. I'm not done teasing yet, but I noticed somethings from demo to retail back to the demo :popcorn:

The heck does that even mean? :confused::rolleyes:

Nobody likes you when you say things like this you know! You confuse 95% of everybody.

[JBHuskers]

The heck does that even mean? :confused::rolleyes:

Nobody likes you when you say things like this you know! You confuse 95% of everybody.

:) just noticed a lot of good things in retail that stand out after going back to the demo.

[Kingpin32]

:) just noticed a lot of good things in retail that stand out after going back to the demo.

I'm :smh: right now. Stop trying to be the Riddler and just tell us right now lol.

[psusnoop]

Ouch JB, I did forget it was at noon. What am I going to do for 12 additional hours.

[steelerfan]

What am I going to do for 12 additional hours.

Benadryl and beer. A winning combination! :nod:

[Deuce]

Benadryl

The poor man's sleeping pill.

[Jayrah]

:) just noticed a lot of good things in retail that stand out after going back to the demo.

Why couldn't you just say that you monkey! Plus, that's not a tease per se, just great news! oooooooaaaaaaaah! 46 1/2 hrs and you can bare it ALL!

[JBHuskers]

Why couldn't you just say that you monkey! Plus, that's not a tease per se, just great news! oooooooaaaaaaaah! 46 1/2 hrs and you can bare it ALL!

You want to see me naked? :eek:

[souljahbill]

You want to see me naked? :eek:

Trying to get from behind the DJ booth and onto the stage?

[JBHuskers]

Trying to get from behind the DJ booth and onto the stage?

Trust me, you don't want that :D

[Kingpin32]

Next on the stage JB "Big Husk"!

Pause.

[JBHuskers]

Next on the stage JB "Big Husk"!

Pause.

:D :D :D Big Husk LMAO ---- I should change all my user names and GamerTags to that. :D

[Kingpin32]

:D :D :D Big Husk LMAO ---- I should change all my user names and GamerTags to that. :D

You'll probably get banned from XBOX Live with that name.