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gschwendt
06-17-2011, 01:37 PM
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5301/5635099119_f6ddeb651d_z.jpgEA has posted two new gameplay videos for NCAA Football 12, one featuring the two new PAC-12 members, Utah Utes at Colorado Buffaloes, and the other focusing on Zone Defense with Alabama at Oklahoma State. Continue after the break to check out the videos and let us know what you think.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRRNaE9gU0w


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcr__36xUD0

Kwizzy
06-17-2011, 01:55 PM
Just clarified too, the game was set on All-American difficulty for this game.

Flav
06-17-2011, 02:02 PM
"I really liked the idea of trying to run, but the defense really made him pay for trying to run" ..........What? Other than that gameplay looks good

gschwendt
06-17-2011, 02:08 PM
"I really liked the idea of trying to run, but the defense really made him pay for trying to run" ..........What?
He's talking about the quarterback giving the impression of scrambling... hence Brad saying "called his own number on that one".

Treadstone6700
06-17-2011, 02:10 PM
"I really liked the idea of trying to run, but the defense really made him pay for trying to run" ..........What? Other than that gameplay looks good

My favorite is "Sometimes as a quarterback you have so many things to worry about, what's the coverage, where's the pressure coming from and so on that you lose focus sometimes throwing a catchable ball. Here, he just missed the target."

...which happens right after the QB gets drilled and it's a complete miracle that he even got a "pass" away

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-17-2011, 02:16 PM
AHAAAAAAAAAAA thank you JESUS... ive been asking for it here or at Utopia... talking about hopefully them changing the play action where the player icon even in USER GAMES will swap to the guy you faked to then come back to the QB, and it is in NCAA 12... man that makes such a big difference when you face people who user the FS and have really sharp stick skills...

"E"

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-17-2011, 02:32 PM
@Oneback... @ 8:50 the play where he scrambles... the RCB (left of our screen) plays a perfect alley drill on the 2 seams... is this something you saw in the builds you played? because that is NOT in any previous version, he would immediately commit to the outside WR leaving the seams wide open... thats a VERY nice change...

"E"

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-17-2011, 02:35 PM
ok sorry for lighting this up but next play starting @ 9:08 i like when he checks down to the back, you can see what happens when you mistime the new tackle button... nice user move to cut back up for the 1st...

still havent seen that "over-powered bull rush" lol that was supposed to plague the game...:D:P:fp::nod:

"E"

Paakaa10
06-17-2011, 02:37 PM
still havent seen that "over-powered bull rush" lol that was supposed to plague the game...:D:P:fp::nod:

And not a single diving catch to be found either! :D

I really like the play at 4:55 of the video as an example that even though zone defense has been improved, it hasn't been improved to the point of being cheap or overpowering. With two receivers on the left side of the field and two defensive backs playing zones (one mid, one deep) it's just a great bit of recognition by the Utah player to see the sideline receiver with space.

EDIT: For people wanting to break that play down further, I believe the playcall was "Y Shallow Cross" on offense and "CB Dogs Zone" on defense.

xMrHitStickx904
06-17-2011, 02:39 PM
game looks great, and it plays a bit slower than some of the videos from previous builds. commentary is getting muted, but I even do that with 2K, so no big deal lol. I'm noticing how much momentum and acceleration is coming into play. The LB who ran back the interception, was the same LB who got beat on that inside curl route by the RB for a first down. Having a fast LB core is really going to be crucial, especially against the spread attacks.

JBHuskers
06-17-2011, 02:43 PM
Yeah the bull rush was rare when we last had our hands on it....diving catches must have been toned down a hair though. I remember seeing them at least 2-3 times a game.

Pig Bomb
06-17-2011, 02:46 PM
this just gets me more fired up!

xMrHitStickx904
06-17-2011, 02:56 PM
And not a single diving catch to be found either! :D

I really like the play at 4:55 of the video as an example that even though zone defense has been improved, it hasn't been improved to the point of being cheap or overpowering. With two receivers on the left side of the field and two defensive backs playing zones (one mid, one deep) it's just a great bit of recognition by the Utah player to see the sideline receiver with space.

EDIT: For people wanting to break that play down further, I believe the playcall was "Y Shallow Cross" on offense and "CB Dogs Zone" on defense.

yeah, that was a given TD. The shallow cross was wide open, and the safety is supposed to account for the outside receiver. He was user controlled. so the guy played closer towards the middle, which left the outside streak wide open. If I realize that I have to manually cover two people, always cover the man with the deeper route to lessen the damage.

Tarhead10
06-17-2011, 03:03 PM
Looks great... Also you can really tell that the lighting makes it look even better than last year(which looked great)... Looks more like saturdays than ever before!!

Paakaa10
06-17-2011, 03:14 PM
yeah, that was a given TD. The shallow cross was wide open, and the safety is supposed to account for the outside receiver. He was user controlled. so the guy played closer towards the middle, which left the outside streak wide open. If I realize that I have to manually cover two people, always cover the man with the deeper route to lessen the damage.

After looking at the play again, it looks like the user-controlled defender was the LOLB for the majority of the play; the Colorado player only switched to the safety after the pass was already in the air and it was too late to adjust to make a play.

xMrHitStickx904
06-17-2011, 03:19 PM
After looking at the play again, it looks like the user-controlled defender was the LOLB for the majority of the play; the Colorado player only switched to the safety after the pass was already in the air and it was too late to adjust to make a play.

yeah, my mistake. The concept is still the same though, except he used the wrong LB imo. Just not a big fan of a corner blitz, especially sending both of them.

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-17-2011, 03:22 PM
same LB who got beat on that inside curl route by the RB for a first down. Having a fast LB core is really going to be crucial, especially against the spread attacks.

actually was the pivot route on the backside of the spot concept if i recall... the LB jumped the inside and trailed right away the way it should be... not the defender jumping the outside at the break of the route like we see on NCAA 11... but yeah was nice to see him stutter on that double move...

"E"

th3 last tiger
06-17-2011, 03:23 PM
What was Colorado wearing

gschwendt
06-17-2011, 03:23 PM
What was Colorado wearing
Both teams are wearing alternate uniforms... those are Colorado throwback uniforms.

Tarhead10
06-17-2011, 03:27 PM
What was Colorado wearing

Yeah I wish they would have picked the throwbacks from the early 90's...I think those are the 30's unis...

ram29jackson
06-17-2011, 03:35 PM
What was Colorado wearing


Both teams are wearing alternate uniforms... those are Colorado throwback uniforms.


they were in the game last year too

ram29jackson
06-17-2011, 03:37 PM
Yeah I wish they would have picked the throwbacks from the early 90's...I think those are the 30's unis...

dude haha try 1950s or early 60s. The 1930s wouldnt have helmets like that

Tarhead10
06-17-2011, 03:41 PM
dude haha try 1950s or early 60s. The 1930s wouldnt have helmets like that

haha...I must have read it wrong, but could have swore that it said that on Teambuilder last year...

gschwendt
06-17-2011, 03:44 PM
Another video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcr__36xUD0
In this Quick Clip, we take a look at the improved zone defense in NCAA Football 12, with Oklahoma State trying to move the ball against a tough Alabama defense.

th3 last tiger
06-17-2011, 03:47 PM
Wow they really must want to address the concerns regarding zone

Edit:-I see they added a cross buck play from the shotgun, nice

JBHuskers
06-17-2011, 03:54 PM
Wow they really must want to address the concerns regarding zone

It was a major focus for NCAA Football 12 for sure!

ram29jackson
06-17-2011, 03:54 PM
the interception looked fishy to me, as though they still jump route unrealistically

OSUCowboyofMD
06-17-2011, 04:00 PM
Wrong band placement :(

xMrHitStickx904
06-17-2011, 04:03 PM
how is that not realistic? he threw it to a covered receiver, paid for it.

gschwendt
06-17-2011, 04:04 PM
Not sure how good Oklahoma State's kicking game is supposed to be but nice to see that the 52 yard field goal wasn't a gimme. Granted it didn't hit 100% power (and whoever kicked it wasn't altogether accurate) but nice to see it come up short.

Paakaa10
06-17-2011, 04:14 PM
Not sure how good Oklahoma State's kicking game is supposed to be but nice to see that the 52 yard field goal wasn't a gimme. Granted it didn't hit 100% power (and whoever kicked it wasn't altogether accurate) but nice to see it come up short.

I just did some quick research and I believe that the Cowboys graduated their starting kicker this past season; nobody listed as a kicker on their spring roster has compiled any statistics as a kicker in college play as far as I could tell.

ram29jackson
06-17-2011, 04:14 PM
how is that not realistic? he threw it to a covered receiver, paid for it.

he wasnt covered from the front the DB just appeared there

Paakaa10
06-17-2011, 04:30 PM
Alabama Defensive Playcall: 3-4 Normal Cross 3 Fire

Oklahoma State Offensive Playcall: Shotgun Split Offset Flood

http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/okiestbama1.png
http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/okiestbama2.png
http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/okiestbama3.png
http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/okiestbama4.png
http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/okiestbama5.png

I'll let the images tell the story of the coverage on this pick, terrible quality though they may be.

gschwendt
06-17-2011, 04:31 PM
Yeah, the SS is right in the path that the WR is taking and then as the ball gets there, he jumps forward to pick it off. I personally don't see anything wrong with the interaction there.

xMrHitStickx904
06-17-2011, 04:33 PM
yeah, he definitely jumped the route.

Solidice
06-17-2011, 04:35 PM
dude haha try 1950s or early 60s. The 1930s wouldnt have helmets like that

those are their 1930s throwback uniforms. it was in NCAA 11, and can be seen in TB for NCAA 11 as well.

Rudy
06-17-2011, 04:56 PM
I just need the game now. I don't need any more videos or anything else - just the demo and the game.

ram29jackson
06-17-2011, 05:00 PM
Yeah, the SS is right in the path that the WR is taking and then as the ball gets there, he jumps forward to pick it off. I personally don't see anything wrong with the interaction there.

I still think the timing and spacing may be unrealitic, thats the point. the last 2 picture frames dont prove anything realistic or right, they prove theres something missing in between that....and would it have been different/better had the QB not thrown until the WR was further into his route ?

illwill10
06-17-2011, 05:02 PM
I just need the game now. I don't need any more videos or anything else - just the demo and the game.
I feel the same exact way. Ive seen enough vids. I just want to get a feel of the game.
but I would like to see some weather games though

ram29jackson
06-17-2011, 05:07 PM
those are their 1930s throwback uniforms. it was in NCAA 11, and can be seen in TB for NCAA 11 as well.

the uni's might be 1930s but the helmets arent

ram29jackson
06-17-2011, 05:07 PM
I feel the same exact way. Ive seen enough vids. I just want to get a feel of the game.
but I would like to see some weather games though

and 6 pm games..any unusual lighting will do

WolverineJay
06-17-2011, 06:12 PM
Yeah the images on that pick were poor quality, but I agree with ram29jackson the way the DB jumps the route as the WR fades back away just looks hella unrealistic to me. That animation has been in the game for years and I just wish that the WR who knows the DB is right there would be more aggressive for the ball rather than do that fade away with lowered hands animation as if he is uncovered, meh. I just wish the demo was out already so I can get somekind of feel for the gameplay improvements in 12'.

xMrHitStickx904
06-17-2011, 06:19 PM
i agree that I think receivers should be more aggressive, but that's tough to animate imo, especially in that situation. In zones, most receivers aren't reactionary cause they run their route and sit there unless there is a scramble situation. When a defense is in a zone, they are the ones who have the reactionary advantage cause all 11 defenders have their eyes on the ball, makes it easier to jump routes.

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-17-2011, 07:30 PM
guys... im sorry.. but the pick is played well... he had outside leverage on the WR the QB threw it outside, the safety just jumped the route and took the ball... piss poor throw by the user and would have had better results if he waited a bit longer to force the defender to trail at least... sorry but ive watched it over and over... good pick well played by the AI...

"E"

OSUCowboyofMD
06-17-2011, 07:38 PM
I just did some quick research and I believe that the Cowboys graduated their starting kicker this past season; nobody listed as a kicker on their spring roster has compiled any statistics as a kicker in college play as far as I could tell.

Likely Quinn Sharp, or Wes Harlan

ram29jackson
06-17-2011, 07:53 PM
guys... im sorry.. but the pick is played well... he had outside leverage on the WR the QB threw it outside, the safety just jumped the route and took the ball... piss poor throw by the user and would have had better results if he waited a bit longer to force the defender to trail at least... sorry but ive watched it over and over... good pick well played by the AI...

"E"

you dont seem to understand the total point ?(didnt mean for that to be offensive) so what if he had so called outside leverage..how do you know the AI didnt dictate the outcome as opposed to human controller decision making? can you make more of an inside throw or not? and even if you do, will the same animation still play out ? did the DB really have outside leverage or did the AI tell the receiver to just give up on the route ?

CoreySA
06-17-2011, 07:54 PM
Game looks fantastic. There looks to be some nice zone improvements, lighting looks better...can't wait until the 28th for the demo!

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-17-2011, 07:58 PM
you dont make inside throws on outside routes, and in the video the WR went for the high ball and actually jumped, in real life the WR would have no idea the guy was jumping the route... still not sure what is unrealistic and i get the point... (like you man... not trying to be offensive... just discussing)

"E"

ram29jackson
06-17-2011, 08:09 PM
you dont make inside throws on outside routes, and in the video the WR went for the high ball and actually jumped, in real life the WR would have no idea the guy was jumping the route... still not sure what is unrealistic and i get the point... (like you man... not trying to be offensive... just discussing)

"E"

a quaterback can throw a ball anywhere he wants-inside shoulder-ouside shoulder, there arent any timing patterns in videogame football.

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-17-2011, 08:12 PM
the out route he is throwing isnt a timing route, its designed for zones... flood... even in "videogame football" it was a bad pass by the user... even according to your own statements... he threw high and outside where the DB was, but regardless, it was a solid D play

"E"

RussellWilson
06-17-2011, 08:28 PM
I wonder if NCAA '12 will have Oregon's jersey that they wore in the BCS national championship game against Auburn?? The game looks really good especially the fans and the allstate net:nod: Since I want to play the demo so badly, it seems to me like time is going by real slow......:fp:

AustinWolv
06-17-2011, 09:42 PM
Yeah, the SS is right in the path that the WR is taking and then as the ball gets there, he jumps forward to pick it off. I personally don't see anything wrong with the interaction there.
Looked good to me. Way better than past versions in being believable.


and would it have been different/better had the QB not thrown until the WR was further into his route ?
Of course it would be different.....the QB led the pass and receiver right into that interception.......if the throw was later in the route, the WR would have likely had a step to the outside on the safety so we'd have to see how the SS mans that zone and then passes the receiver off to the next zone....

I really like what I saw at about the 8:06 mark of the video......the QB forces the slant into a receiver who gets pummeled since he was led into a defender's zone. In other words, my hope is that not only are the zones improved, which they appear to be, but there is residual effect in that if you aren't finding guys open in those zones and instead forcing them in, guys are going to get lit up and passes broken up as a result. This is good stuff.


guys... im sorry.. but the pick is played well... he had outside leverage on the WR the QB threw it outside, the safety just jumped the route and took the ball... piss poor throw by the user and would have had better results if he waited a bit longer to force the defender to trail at least... sorry but ive watched it over and over... good pick well played by the AI...
I agree.

Jayrah
06-17-2011, 10:01 PM
I'm with the Guru on this one. Both picks (Utah and Bama) I've seen time and time again in real life. Can't make that throw with a guy right there it gets pick 6'd 9 times outta 10. I remember watching WSU jump that route against Oregon (the last time we beat them (maybe 5 years ago?) and take it to the house. Since then I've seen it several other times against us :fp:.

But in general, this happens a LOT! Here's 2 examples:

Cliff Harris vs Tenn last season:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFtsykx-PQA

Walter Thurmond vs Purdue 2 seasons ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONhpA1Zndvs

morsdraconis
06-17-2011, 10:27 PM
The only thing I saw that was weird about it was it looked like the safety warped through the player, but, then, going back to the replay that they show of it, he just steps in front of the receiver.

Otherwise, it looks pretty good to me.

ram29jackson
06-17-2011, 10:51 PM
I'm with the Guru on this one. Both picks (Utah and Bama) I've seen time and time again in real life. Can't make that throw with a guy right there it gets pick 6'd 9 times outta 10. I remember watching WSU jump that route against Oregon (the last time we beat them (maybe 5 years ago?) and take it to the house. Since then I've seen it several other times against us :fp:.

But in general, this happens a LOT! Here's 2 examples:

Cliff Harris vs Tenn last season:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFtsykx-PQA

Walter Thurmond vs Purdue 2 seasons ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONhpA1Zndvs


whether and how it happens in reality is beside the point. This is about how AI is expected to counter or react and how it looks when doing so.

for those saying this looks realistic or happens in a realistic situation....how do you know as of yet, whether or not the AI defender wouldnt have picked it off even if the QB had thrown it later, so, instead the AI would have picked it off from inside or under on the same play.

we saw it happen both ways in ncaa11...so was this based on AI ratings or a scripted situation?

xMrHitStickx904
06-17-2011, 11:15 PM
if he threw it later in the route, and the ball was placed out in front, it's a completion. he threw it was too early, and the D made a great play.

jaymo76
06-18-2011, 02:21 AM
Is Erin Andrews in this game anyomre? Have there been any updates to injuries or is it still broken like last year? I have not seen one video with Erin A reporting and have seen no cut scnes regarding getting injured players off the field. From the Oklahoma St game #84 gets hurt but you only see a little info bar three plays later. Anything new to report???

AustinWolv
06-18-2011, 07:43 AM
whether and how it happens in reality is beside the point. This is about how AI is expected to counter or react and how it looks when doing so.

for those saying this looks realistic or happens in a realistic situation....how do you know as of yet, whether or not the AI defender wouldnt have picked it off even if the QB had thrown it later, so, instead the AI would have picked it off from inside or under on the same play.

we saw it happen both ways in ncaa11...so was this based on AI ratings or a scripted situation?

You saw evidence that it was correct in that situation. Talking about a different situation is silly, in this instance. In this instance, you are wrong. We'll all get to check out your hypothetical situation at a later date.

Solved.

Paakaa10
06-18-2011, 08:37 AM
Is Erin Andrews in this game anyomre? Have there been any updates to injuries or is it still broken like last year? I have not seen one video with Erin A reporting and have seen no cut scnes regarding getting injured players off the field. From the Oklahoma St game #84 gets hurt but you only see a little info bar three plays later. Anything new to report???

Erin Andrews is definitely still in the game; I guess the problem right now is that none of the high-quality direct-feed footage has shown off the point in the game where her contribution to the commentary is biggest for NCAA Football 12: after halftime in the "GameTrack" feature. There are a bunch of newly-recorded lines--I believe from all three commentators--to accompany this new presentational element.

As to the Oklahoma State player who gets hurt:

7:10 of the video is where the play starts.
7:20 is where he gets lit up catching the ball across the middle.
8:30 of the video--after one play has been run since the injury--is when the "injury status" pops up from the scorebug: "Injury Update: OK ST WR #84 - Back Spasms, Will Return Soon"
8:55 of the video--two plays have now been run since the injury--and you get the "Coaching Decision" pop up as to whether the player should return to the game or not.


I think one reason we might not have heard any Erin Andrews commentary on the injury is because obviously there was some special mode setup to keep Oklahoma State on offense even after turnovers and missed field goals; the commentary from Nessler is incredulously talking about it being a 16- and 17-play offensive drive on the two plays after the injury.

Thankfully we're just a few days away from the UStream on the demo and hopefully we'll see some footage from that with Erin Andrews commentary; if we get to play a full game in the demo, I really hope that the "GameTrack" feature is included so you all can see that too.

rhombic21
06-18-2011, 09:07 AM
Overall, I think the game looks pretty good. I have a couple nitpicky type things that I'm a little concerned about:

1) Hard to say without knowing the defensive line ratings, but I didn't see nearly as much pressure from the front 4 in the Utah-Colorado video as was present in some of the previous videos. Also, I didn't see all that much pressure in the Alabama-OSU video. Still a concern for me.

2) I am starting to get a little concerned that HB screens will go back to how they were on NCAA '09, where they were HUGE gains anytime that the defense was in zone or zone blitzed. Do defensive linemen and linebackers ever recognize and react to screens? Also, I REALLY wish they'd get rid of the option to throw to players other than the HB on this play. I just remember on NCAA '09, you had people that would call HB screens over and over, and if you manually went to guard the screen, they would throw to somebody else downfield. Hoping to not see the return of that this year.

3) I am not in love with the way that cover 2 works on the game. I think it may be possible to deal with it by making some adjustments and manually controlling the MLB, but I think the CBs are way too aggressive against the flats, and I see some troubling issues where the LBs don't play vertical threats all that well. Also, in the Bama-OSU video, the first play of the game is kind of confusing. As you watch the WR come across and split the two zones of the ILBs, it appears that #30 could have covered the play, but he inexplicably stops running as soon as the ball was thrown. Watch that play again. There's a weird pause/hitch in his movements which allows the pass to be completed, and there aren't any other routes that he's reacting to. Also, #30 should be a very highly rated player, so it can't be the ratings that causes it.

The main improvement that I see, in terms of zone coverage, is with the deep safeties, who look to be MUCH better at picking up threats to their areas and not leaving huge gaps in the intermediate parts of the field. And underneath zones are a lot better at dealing with horizontal threats. The underneath zones (flat zones and hook zones), it looks to me, could still do a better job dealing with vertical threats. There are some issues where they don't seem to be doing quite as good as they should at maintaining a correct position against intermediate routes (like deep ins) and vertical routes (there's also a play at the 10:00 minute mark of the Bama-OSU video where a DB has a hook zone that should take away the dig route, but he doesn't react to it well and allows the WR to get in behind him).

Also, I am still a little nervous to see how routes to the intermediate sideline area (long-developing slants, wheel routes) are defended, just because I haven't seen those.

It looks to me like some of the A gap zone blitzes might work a little better this year. Obviously it's a limited sample size, but I've seen a few now where the MLB ends up coming free on a cross blitz in ways that didn't happen before. I'll be interested to see how difficult it is to get pressure packages that work on the game, particularly with zone blitzes that overload one side and drop a defender off on the other. Especially out of the 3-4, where it was very difficult last year to find zone blitzes that actually worked correctly (and I noticed that the OL seemed to pick up most of the zone blitzes in the Bama video).

I still don't see anything that makes me not want to buy the game. Looks like it's an improvement over '11. The question now is to see how much of an improvement it will be. It looks to me like there's still some progress to be made with the zones, but I like that the windows are a LOT smaller, which should at least reduce dramatically the margin of error that the offense has. I don't know that "shutdown" defense will be possible (particularly against good players that are able to make reads and throw the ball on time), but I think that it will at least be possible to get more stops this year than last, especially in long yardage situations.

ram29jackson
06-18-2011, 01:51 PM
You saw evidence that it was correct in that situation. Talking about a different situation is silly, in this instance. In this instance, you are wrong. We'll all get to check out your hypothetical situation at a later date.

Solved.

i'm not talking about a different situation, I'm talking about how AI is programed to react in the entirety of a play. My evidence is past games. But of course we'll see haha, I just want the dang game too :)

Treadstone6700
06-18-2011, 03:54 PM
Oklahoma State pick is legit, if the QB throws that ball to the flat it's a nice gain

Jayrah
06-18-2011, 04:32 PM
whether and how it happens in reality is beside the point. This is about how AI is expected to counter or react and how it looks when doing so.

That is Bull crap! If you make THAT throw, in real life OR in the game, with the safety sitting in THAT position, you are blessed if it doesn't go back to the house! That's a REAL reaction by ANY safety, scripted, AI, real life, or otherwise. Ill tell you what wouldnt be realistic: the safety waiting for the wr to make the catch instead of making a play on the ball like any safety with college skills would.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-18-2011, 05:19 PM
some people stretch this stuff out for days trying to find something wrong... both of the videos jayrah presented were great examples, showing the same thing that the guy in the EA video did... that the guy dropped in zone, stayed in great position on the WR, broke on the up-field shoulder and took it to the house... dont understand why were still talking about this...

move along... for goodness sake

"E"

I OU a Beatn
06-18-2011, 05:44 PM
Why is everyone up in arms over the first pick? :D

First of all, it's about as legitimate of a pick as I've ever seen on an EA developed game. It looked like the DB morphed in front of the receiver, but it was too quick to tell. I'd personally like to see a little more effort from the receiver to break it up or make a play on the ball, but oh well. The real question is why did the offensive player throw to an obviously covered receiver when he had a wide open running back in the flat?

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-18-2011, 10:42 PM
I'd personally like to see a little more effort from the receiver

i agree with that if its man coverage... if they know they are locked up then yes they must fight to get to the ball to win position, but throwing against zones, you cant ask a WR to deviate towards the ball realistically it defeats the purpose of throwing to windows... the user in the video just had a bad play... and to be honest... even if he did warp a little(which i still think it was smooth and solid)... im thrilled to see that kind of movement vs zone defense...

"E"

steelerfan
06-18-2011, 10:49 PM
As you've heard from CD guys all along, the complaint with 12 will be that defense is too good now because zones are no longer completely broken. :D

:fp:

I OU a Beatn
06-18-2011, 11:03 PM
As you've heard from CD guys all along, the complaint with 12 will be that defense is too good now because zones are no longer completely broken. :D

:fp:

I'd put every penny to my name on the account that it's not. I have seen nothing in the videos thus far to make me believe defense is going to be any better than last year or the year before.

ram29jackson
06-19-2011, 02:16 AM
That is Bull crap! If you make THAT throw, in real life OR in the game, with the safety sitting in THAT position, you are blessed if it doesn't go back to the house! That's a REAL reaction by ANY safety, scripted, AI, real life, or otherwise. Ill tell you what wouldnt be realistic: the safety waiting for the wr to make the catch instead of making a play on the ball like any safety with college skills would.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

simply...if he actually runs to the spot to do it its fine, but if he shifted /sliding into that position to do it because the AI pushed him there, I would find it bogus.

morsdraconis
06-19-2011, 05:31 AM
I'd put every penny to my name on the account that it's not. I have seen nothing in the videos thus far to make me believe defense is going to be any better than last year or the year before.

And you'd be broke too because it's SIGNIFICANTLY better. I swear, the way you talk bad about the game all the time, I don't know why you waste your time playing it.

rhombic21
06-19-2011, 07:24 AM
"Significantly better" and "too good" are different things. I agree that it looks a lot better, but I still think the game is still going to be tilted to the offense (though hopefully not as bad as this year). Zones still have a ways to go to have true pattern reading that reacts properly to route combinations and down/distance situations. The pass rush is questionable at this point. QBs still seem to be too accurate. And the camera angle gives the offense a natural advantage in terms of being able to see the entire field.

I OU a Beatn
06-19-2011, 09:40 AM
And you'd be broke too because it's SIGNIFICANTLY better. I swear, the way you talk bad about the game all the time, I don't know why you waste your time playing it.

You don't know why I play it because I said the defense doesn't look any better in the videos I've seen? Honestly, exactly what have you seen in these videos that makes you believe defense is going to be any better against a human opponent?


"Significantly better" and "too good" are different things. I agree that it looks a lot better, but I still think the game is still going to be tilted to the offense (though hopefully not as bad as this year). Zones still have a ways to go to have true pattern reading that reacts properly to route combinations and down/distance situations. The pass rush is questionable at this point. QBs still seem to be too accurate. And the camera angle gives the offense a natural advantage in terms of being able to see the entire field.

Exactly. I don't care if the defense is improved, if I'm still able to go down the field like nothing and score just about every possession, then it's not good enough. As I said, I haven't seen anything in the released videos to say otherwise. There's still pretty big holes in zone coverage, the flats look like they're going to be open most of the time, and man defense doesn't look like it's up to par either.

If they really, truly want to improve the defense, then they need to tighten up the coverage even more and then crank up how effective the defensive line is when rushing the QB. It takes way too long to get there. I know they say they don't want to ruin it for casual players, but that's easily fixed - just reduce the effectiveness when playing on Freshman and Varsity and crank it back up for All American and Heisman. It's a win for everyone that way.

xMrHitStickx904
06-19-2011, 09:42 AM
first thing I want to check out besides the custom playbooks, and rosters, is how effective the zone blitzes are, and how strong the contains are this year. I'm honestly trying to remember an NCAA Football game that the defense had the advantage. 05 had it by default because nobody could catch the ball at all. 06 was balanced enough, 07 was offensively geared with the breakaway speed everyone had with a SPD of 93 + (like it should be), 08 had some horrible pursuit angles, NCAA 09 was the Next-Gen version of 04. NCAA 10 had the weird camera, but you could still score rather easy, and NCAA 11 you really couldn't stop anybody.

xMrHitStickx904
06-19-2011, 09:47 AM
You don't know why I play it because I said the defense doesn't look any better in the videos I've seen? Honestly, exactly what have you seen in these videos that makes you believe defense is going to be any better against a human opponent?



Exactly. I don't care if the defense is improved, if I'm still able to go down the field like nothing and score just about every possession, then it's not good enough. As I said, I haven't seen anything in the released videos to say otherwise. There's still pretty big holes in zone coverage, the flats look like they're going to be open most of the time, and man defense doesn't look like it's up to par either.

If they really, truly want to improve the defense, then they need to tighten up the coverage even more and then crank up how effective the defensive line is when rushing the QB. It takes way too long to get there. I know they say they don't want to ruin it for casual players, but that's easily fixed - just reduce the effectiveness when playing on Freshman and Varsity and crank it back up for All American and Heisman. It's a win for everyone that way.

Here's what I'll say about zones. We haven't played the game, so I think it's difficult to really tell right now. I can say that zones look to be improved, but like you said, it doesn't make a difference if i'm scoring 75% of the time every game. As far as man coverage goes, I haven't seen anyone bump and run yet, show blitz while playing zone, or make adjustments based on what is given to them ; the element of strategy is missing from the videos, which is understandable. I'm in complete agreement with the pass rush, and that it should be tuned based on difficulty level. Madden on the PS2 did this, and had the "Hardcore Ranked game" to separate everyone.

There are holes in the zones this year, like it should be. The real question is how do the defenders play those holes, that is what i'm interested in honestly. Flats can't be as bad as NCAA 10 though, i'm not convinced of that.

rhombic21
06-19-2011, 09:52 AM
Exactly. I don't care if the defense is improved, if I'm still able to go down the field like nothing and score just about every possession, then it's not good enough.
I'm not convinced, after watching these videos, that this will be the case. I think good human players will probably still score more than they should based on the ratings of the offenses and defenses that are being used, but I don't think people will score TDs every single possession. I think the defense this year is a lot better geared to at least be in position to force a couple errors, and to take advantage of those errors when they occur. I think that if you really know what you're doing on defense this year, you will finally have some tools to create confusion and cause some problems for the offense. That's based on a preliminary reading of the videos, so it could change. If the pass rush turns out to be more like what it was looking like in some of the earlier videos, then I would even say that this year should have a much closer balance between offense and defense than has been the case in any previous year (on any generation of consoles).

Will we see a lot of 10-9 games with 6+ punts for each team? Probably not. But I think we might see a lot more 24-21 games with 3 or 4 punts that would have been 35-31 with no punts on NCAA '11. And if you have a really good defensive player matched up against an average or below average offensive player (in terms of user skill and playcalling), I think you might see a lot more defensive shutdowns. On NCAA '11, even average offensive players can move the ball pretty well, just because so much stuff is wide open, and there's a limited amount that you can manually defend.

Also, one thing about the improved underneath coverage that should really come into play is in the redzone. I anticipate that you will end up with a lot more field goals instead of touchdowns because drives stall out once the field gets compressed and people can really flood the underneath zones with defenders without having having to worry as much about vertical threats.

rhombic21
06-19-2011, 10:00 AM
Speaking of having more defensive oriented games, one glitch that I hope they fixed is that in online play, when you get an interception, the game doesn't pause while the screen flips. This results in all kinds of problems with players accidentally pitching the ball (as a result of having been holding down strafe while on defense), or hurdling (pressing the catch button). It also makes it a lot harder to have big returns, because it takes an extra second or two to orient yourself to where you are and where the pursuit is coming from.

psusnoop
06-19-2011, 11:24 AM
Speaking of having more defensive oriented games, one glitch that I hope they fixed is that in online play, when you get an interception, the game doesn't pause while the screen flips. This results in all kinds of problems with players accidentally pitching the ball (as a result of having been holding down strafe while on defense), or hurdling (pressing the catch button). It also makes it a lot harder to have big returns, because it takes an extra second or two to orient yourself to where you are and where the pursuit is coming from.

This I'm on board with it can be frustrating to turn into defenders instead of towards the open field.

steelerfan
06-19-2011, 11:57 AM
I'd put every penny to my name on the account that it's not. I have seen nothing in the videos thus far to make me believe defense is going to be any better than last year or the year before.

I don't need your $3, but thanks for the offer.

When I said that, I was referring to the masses, not to a wizard like yourself. Of course, you will have no trouble marching up and down the field in the East Room. I never questioned that.

steelerfan
06-19-2011, 12:20 PM
I can agree with most of what rhombic said.

Unfortunately, those who play only online will never be able to use sliders to tune things to their abilities. Online is tuned for the masses. If it's too tough, it's no fun for the masses.

I am able to tune the game so that the CPU is challenging. I played dynasties on 11 with PSU, ND, and SDSU. The average length of those dynasties was probably 5 years and I never won a MNC. I'm good with that. I want realism and, within reason, I achieve it, even to the point others would think it's not fun. With the teams I used on 11, a MNC shouldn't be a given, and it wasn't.

Hell, I 'm currently 38-56 with the Astros in a Franchise I have going on MLB The Show and I can't put the game down. 38-56 is pretty damn realistic for the Astros and that's what I want. :D

For me, completing 50.7% of my passes last month on 12 (7 games using my 11 sliders) was evidence enough that I will get a lot of fun out of 12. I can't speak for online ranked games against guys who run the same 4 plays over and over though. The type of experience one gets under those conditions remains to be seen.

jaymo76
06-19-2011, 12:58 PM
I can agree with most of what rhombic said.

Unfortunately, those who play only online will never be able to use sliders to tune things to their abilities. Online is tuned for the masses. If it's too tough, it's no fun for the masses.

I am able to tune the game so that the CPU is challenging. I played dynasties on 11 with PSU, ND, and SDSU. The average length of those dynasties was probably 5 years and I never won a MNC. I'm good with that. I want realism and, within reason, I achieve it, even to the point others would think it's not fun. With the teams I used on 11, a MNC shouldn't be a given, and it wasn't.

Hell, I 'm currently 38-56 with the Astros in a Franchise I have going on MLB The Show and I can't put the game down. 38-56 is pretty damn realistic for the Astros and that's what I want. :D

For me, completing 50.7% of my passes last month on 12 (7 games using my 11 sliders) was evidence enough that I will get a lot of fun out of 12. I can't speak for online ranked games against guys who run the same 4 plays over and over though. The type of experience one gets under those conditions remains to be seen.

Steeler, was it you who said that you used your NCAA 11 sliders in 12 and they work pretty well? I know someone who went said that. If so, that sounds pretty good.

steelerfan
06-19-2011, 03:36 PM
Steeler, was it you who said that you used your NCAA 11 sliders in 12 and they work pretty well? I know someone who went said that. If so, that sounds pretty good.

Yes. The only adjustments I made were to KPW and KAC. I had to give them a boost as they are toned down from 11.

Here are some averages from the 6 games I played vs the CPU on my last visit (note: 9 minute quaters):

Stat: me/CPU

Points: 23.5/25.0
YDS: 334.8/332.7
Rush: 140.5/115.2
Per Carry: 3.7/3.4
Pass: 194.3/217.5
Comp%: 51.0/50.5
Per Attempt: 7.6/6.9

Apparently, I made a slight mistake in my previous math. I had said I was 50.7% passing. I added it up 3 times now and I was 74 of 145 (51.0%).

Now, most of these games were played with/against average to poor teams and I only played one game between severely mismatched teams (I lost as WMU at UM, 31-7), but you get the idea.

psusnoop
06-19-2011, 04:39 PM
I'd put every penny to my name on the account that it's not. I have seen nothing in the videos thus far to make me believe defense is going to be any better than last year or the year before.

This ^^^:smh:

**edited because this is ahh nevermind not worth the debate at this point. No matter which side of the fence your on here nothing really matters till we all the get the game and try out some things. Just pointless.

I OU a Beatn
06-19-2011, 04:52 PM
I don't need your $3, but thanks for the offer.

When I said that, I was referring to the masses, not to a wizard like yourself. Of course, you will have no trouble marching up and down the field in the East Room. I never questioned that.

:D

How old are you again? I thought for sure there was an age requirement in attending community day events at EA, but you're obviously proof that there's not. Tell you what, whenever you want to engage in a legitimate argument without your immature little baseless remarks, let me know. Considering I haven't seen you post a single legitimately helpful or intelligent post, I wont hold my breath.

I OU a Beatn
06-19-2011, 04:57 PM
This ^^^:smh:

**edited because this is ahh nevermind not worth the debate at this point. No matter which side of the fence your on here nothing really matters till we all the get the game and try out some things. Just pointless.

There's always room for some healthy debate. What have you seen in the videos so far that would make you believe that the defense has been remarkably improved? There's no doubt that they've made attempts at fixing it, I'm just incredibly unsure at this point whether it'll be enough. I'm still seeing the huge holes in the zone defenses, and it looks like man defense has been downgraded from '11, which it kind of needed since it was borderline psychic in knowing the receiver's route. I'm also not liking how I see the defense responding to routes run on the flats.

rhombic21
06-19-2011, 05:06 PM
I can agree with most of what rhombic said.

Unfortunately, those who play only online will never be able to use sliders to tune things to their abilities. Online is tuned for the masses. If it's too tough, it's no fun for the masses.

I am able to tune the game so that the CPU is challenging. I played dynasties on 11 with PSU, ND, and SDSU. The average length of those dynasties was probably 5 years and I never won a MNC. I'm good with that. I want realism and, within reason, I achieve it, even to the point others would think it's not fun. With the teams I used on 11, a MNC shouldn't be a given, and it wasn't.

Hell, I 'm currently 38-56 with the Astros in a Franchise I have going on MLB The Show and I can't put the game down. 38-56 is pretty damn realistic for the Astros and that's what I want. :D

For me, completing 50.7% of my passes last month on 12 (7 games using my 11 sliders) was evidence enough that I will get a lot of fun out of 12. I can't speak for online ranked games against guys who run the same 4 plays over and over though. The type of experience one gets under those conditions remains to be seen.

This gets us back to another point though, and that is that they need to make the CPU more challenging from a PLAYCALLING perspective. I think I've been over that part pretty thoroughly as to why I don't play offline, and I know that IOU is pretty much the same in that regard. I would love to play primarily offline and in online dynasties, if I could get the same kind of strategic challenge out of the CPU that I get from the average opponent online.

And they need to make it so that you can at least use sliders in human vs. human games in online dynasty.

rhombic21
06-19-2011, 05:12 PM
There's always room for some healthy debate. What have you seen in the videos so far that would make you believe that the defense has been remarkably improved? There's no doubt that they've made attempts at fixing it, I'm just incredibly unsure at this point whether it'll be enough. I'm still seeing the huge holes in the zone defenses, and it looks like man defense has been downgraded from '11, which it kind of needed since it was borderline psychic in knowing the receiver's route. I'm also not liking how I see the defense responding to routes run on the flats.
I don't really see what you're talking about here at all. Most of the windows I've seen in the zones have been pretty small, and you could argue that with the right manual coverage and/or adjustments, could be eliminated or at least made even smaller. Even on that Bama-OSU video, most of those windows were pretty small, and the user controlling OSU not only had a very good offense (QB in particular), but also knew the exact coverage prior to the play, which doubtlessly reduced some of the effectiveness of the coverages.

Also, most QBs in real life complete over 50% of their passes, and there are even more times beyond that where the offense has receivers open (at least a little open), and the QB either misses them with a bad pass, throws to the wrong receiver, or the WR drops the ball. So the standard here isn't that nobody ever be open. The standard is that the defense forces some mistakes, and that they are in position to make a big play (sack, interception, batted down pass) if the offense makes the wrong read or becomes too predictable. Ultimately, as you suggested earlier, the real test here will be to see what happens to offensive efficiency in terms of scoring and third/fourth down conversions. Remember that for the offense to score, they usually don't just one successful play, but rather have to string together 8-15 play drives without getting behind the chains in down/distance or committing a turnover.

Also, I don't really get what you're talking about with the flats. First, that wasn't, in my experience, even a huge problem last year. But in the videos I've seen for NCAA '12, I would argue that the defenders have, if anything, been TOO aggressive in taking away the flats, which has left some gaps in the areas down the sidelines behind them, but in front of the deep cover players.

I OU a Beatn
06-19-2011, 05:24 PM
If you don't see the issues, then you're only looking at the receiver who is being thrown the ball in the videos. If you actually watch the other receivers, there's someone open just about every single play, the person playing simply isn't reading the defense and rather throwing to the receiver he probably picked out before he even snapped the ball. I don't know if they fixed the issue with the flats last year, but I only played for about 3 weeks and they were a problem while I was playing. I didn't play after any of the patches, so I suppose it's possible they corrected it.

Oh well, it's tough to tell from videos. As you said, coverage can be vastly improved if you're any good controlling a LB or Safety, and we haven't seen how effective blitzing is yet, which could also prove to be an equalizer to less than ideal coverage. I will say this, though. I saw holes in coverage before the '11 demo came out, and when the demo came out, that just confirmed it. People were putting up 50+ points in the little 8 minute demo. While I don't see quite the severity of the holes in the coverage with the videos we've seen so far, I do see some holes in it. I've seen several post routes fairly wide open, there was several wide open receivers in a few of the earlier videos posted, etc..

steelerfan
06-19-2011, 05:57 PM
:D

How old are you again? I thought for sure there was an age requirement in attending community day events at EA, but you're obviously proof that there's not. Tell you what, whenever you want to engage in a legitimate argument without your immature little baseless remarks, let me know. Considering I haven't seen you post a single legitimately helpful or intelligent post, I wont hold my breath.

I was playing this game when you were shitting yellow.

I'm glad you don't think anything I've ever posted has been helpful or intelligent. By your standards, the only way to post is by bellyaching. It's all you do. Ever. About virtually any game.

Sorry buddy, I'm not 22. I'm not part of the Mountain Dew Generation. I don't need leaderboards or "rep" to enjoy a game. I don't sit in front of the tv playing shooters while watching episodes of South Park on my laptop and listening to music through my earbuds. I don't require constant entertainment or stimulation. We are not alike and we never will be.

That being said, you still missed my point about people complaining about defense this year. I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE MASSES. The EA Forum crowd. They will likely complain. Defense is better this year.

You didn't bother to determine what I was saying before you issued your latest "I'll bet everything I own on _____" (about the 23rd such bet you've made on this site).

Of course, you'll buy the game and 3 weeks after release you'll trade it in for your next high. And then complain until info comes out for 13. At which time you'll shift your bitching to that title.

Yawn.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

rhombic21
06-19-2011, 06:00 PM
If you don't see the issues, then you're only looking at the receiver who is being thrown the ball in the videos. If you actually watch the other receivers, there's someone open just about every single play, the person playing simply isn't reading the defense and rather throwing to the receiver he probably picked out before he even snapped the ball.
Nah, I watch all the receivers on every play. I guess we'll just agree to disagree, for now. Most of the things that are open are things that SHOULD be open based on the coverage and the routes that the offense is presenting, IMO.

The game comes out soon enough, and then we'll be able to judge for ourselves, so there's no point in getting too worked up about it.

steelerfan
06-19-2011, 06:09 PM
Rhombic, I agree about CPU playcalling. Hopefully, the improvements made this year will be more than marginal. I can't say for certain after only a couple handfuls of games.

That said, I think the CPU's execution and, moreso, the CPU's inability to avoid using broken plays have been the real culprit. But, I'm very optimistic (as you can see from my numbers above) that I can get a challenge from the CPU on 12.

We'll see.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

I OU a Beatn
06-19-2011, 06:15 PM
I was playing this game when you were shitting yellow.

I'm glad you don't think anything I've ever posted has been helpful or intelligent. By your standards, the only way to post is by bellyaching. It's all you do. Ever. About virtually any game.

Sorry buddy, I'm not 22. I'm not part of the Mountain Dew Generation. I don't need leaderboards or "rep" to enjoy a game. I don't sit in front of the tv playing shooters while watching episodes of South Park on my laptop and listening to music through my earbuds. I don't require constant entertainment or stimulation. We are not alike and we never will be.

That being said, you still missed my point about people complaining about defense this year. I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE MASSES. The EA Forum crowd. They will likely complain. Defense is better this year.

You didn't bother to determine what I was saying before you issued your latest "I'll bet everything I own on _____" (about the 23rd such bet you've made on this site).

Of course, you'll buy the game and 3 weeks after release you'll trade it in for your next high. And then complain until info comes out for 13. At which time you'll shift your bitching to that title.

Yawn.

If giving feedback or talking about a game(take notice that this is a forum) is considered bellyaching, then I guess that's what I do. I have no problem admitting that. I've never been one to sweep problems under a rug. If a game has a problem, I point it out. It may come across as bitching and whining to some, but that's not what I intend. I'm merely giving my opinion on a game or on this case, what I see from a video, and hoping to get some good discussion about it from the other people on the forum. I do believe that's the entire goal of the forum, is it not?

Yet another assumption, which is lovely. I work 40+ hours a week as I would hope most people my age do as well. I also attend school 3 days a week which takes up another large chunk of my time. If that, by your standards, means I'm "playing shooters and watching South Park all day because of my requirement for constant entertainment" then I guess that's what I do. :D

Never argued with that. The masses bitch about something every year. I've dealt with years and years of complaining because EA decided to not incorporate freakin' dreadlocks. That's just how it is. Look at any game. ANY game. There will be a group of people bitching about it for no reason. I'm not one of them. Every single thing I've said has legitimate truth to it and anyone who knows anything about the game knows I'm right. The problem you have is you assume I'm talking about the game when I say something about the poor defense. You've played the game so you're obviously going to know exactly how it plays. I'm basing my opinion on a video. For all I know, that video could be the polar opposite of what you experienced. Until we've both played the final version, we're probably going to have differing opinions. Hell, we'll more than likely have differing opinions after the game releases simply because you play against the CPU and I play against human players, so we're obviously going to have different issues. The issues I experience online are just as much of an issue as anything else on the game. "You should expect that playing against random players" doesn't fly. It's a feature that EA incorporated into their game. If they're not going to support it, balance it out, and fix the issues, then they should remove it entirely from the game.

I also don't really get the bit about trading games in for my next high. Why exactly would I need to trade a game in to play another? Like I said, I've followed this game since I started playing video games back with the '98 version. I've played online every single year since it's origination back with the '04 version. If there's ANYONE that's earned the right to give honest feedback, it's me. If you want to bypass that and call it bitching, then you go right ahead. People like me are the ones that get the info across to EA that can improve the game if they listen to it. If you expect me to be a "yes" man, then I suggest you just stop reading my posts.

psusnoop
06-19-2011, 06:20 PM
I'd put every penny to my name on the account that it's not. I have seen nothing in the videos thus far to make me believe defense is going to be any better than last year or the year before.


There's always room for some healthy debate. What have you seen in the videos so far that would make you believe that the defense has been remarkably improved? There's no doubt that they've made attempts at fixing it, I'm just incredibly unsure at this point whether it'll be enough. I'm still seeing the huge holes in the zone defenses, and it looks like man defense has been downgraded from '11, which it kind of needed since it was borderline psychic in knowing the receiver's route. I'm also not liking how I see the defense responding to routes run on the flats.

I gotta ask, are you wanting it to be improved? remarkably better?

psusnoop
06-19-2011, 06:22 PM
Nah, I watch all the receivers on every play. I guess we'll just agree to disagree, for now. Most of the things that are open are things that SHOULD be open based on the coverage and the routes that the offense is presenting, IMO.

The game comes out soon enough, and then we'll be able to judge for ourselves, so there's no point in getting too worked up about it.

I'm going to agree with Rhombic once again

rhombic21
06-19-2011, 06:25 PM
Rhombic, I agree about CPU playcalling. Hopefully, the improvements made this year will be more than marginal. I can't say for certain after only a couple handfuls of games.

That said, I think the CPU's execution and, moreso, the CPU's inability to avoid using broken plays have been the real culprit. But, I'm very optimistic (as you can see from my numbers above) that I can get a challenge from the CPU on 12.

We'll see.
Yeah, testing something like that out just takes a really large sample size. First you always have those "fluke" games where crazy things happen that you don't usually see. I always think one of the funny things about pre-release is when a couple people get the game early and have something crazy happen, and then everybody panics that issue ____ is going to ruin the game.

Second, there are so many variables at play, in terms of the quality of teams and the sliders. Plus you have all the different play styles (see: this year's concern about AI teams in the spread offense). You not only want to know what happens with evenly matched teams, but also what happens with the user team is various shades better than the CPU, and conversely what happens when the CPU team is various shades better than the user. And then on top of that, you have to think about how things scale. So for instance, is an even matchup with two average-poor teams likely to play out the same way as an even matchup with absolutely horrible teams? What about with two really great teams? In other words, does there get to be a point where if the user team gets good enough, that the AI is never able to be as competitive as it should be? Does there get to be a point where user teams that are really really bad are still able to stick with slightly below average AI teams? Sometimes those things can be non-linear.

Finally, what happens when people improve at the game? In other words, even if the game is challenging in August, will it still be challenging after I've been playing it for 2 or 3 months? Or will there reach a point where once you get to a certain skill level, or get familiar enough with how the computer is playing, that the computer is always too easy to beat?

So from a statistical point of view, it's really tough to figure these things out. I guess the real question for me is whether playing the computer causes you to really feel like you have to focus on calling the right plays, and whether the AI develops and reacts to tendencies in a meaningful way. Do I feel rewarded for calling a good sequence of plays, and do I feel challenged to try and figure out what the CPU is doing?

It's a two part thing really. First, the AI has to know how to execute various strategies correctly and avoid using suboptimal strategies (i.e. plays that never work, regardless of what the other team does). And then it has to figure out when to switch up/adjust strategies. Or to put it simply, it has to figure out some way to decide which strategy will work best on the next play (or sequence of plays), based on the game situation and past indications of what kinds of strategies the opponent has used in similar situations at earlier points in time (in combination with its own team's strengths and weaknesses). So it's hard to do, that's for sure.

Pig Bomb
06-19-2011, 06:36 PM
Nah, I watch all the receivers on every play. I guess we'll just agree to disagree, for now. Most of the things that are open are things that SHOULD be open based on the coverage and the routes that the offense is presenting, IMO.

The game comes out soon enough, and then we'll be able to judge for ourselves, so there's no point in getting too worked up about it.

i agree...no defense can take away everything...someone is usually open on every play [if only for a short time] and it's up to the QB to find him and execute... in real life it's more difficult because the QB doesn't have the view that we have in the game

so far the videos have shown me the defense appears to be smarter and functioning better than last year for sure...i'm excited to test it out!

psusnoop
06-19-2011, 06:40 PM
If giving feedback or talking about a game(take notice that this is a forum) is considered bellyaching, then I guess that's what I do. I have no problem admitting that. I've never been one to sweep problems under a rug. If a game has a problem, I point it out. It may come across as bitching and whining to some, but that's not what I intend. I'm merely giving my opinion on a game or on this case, what I see from a video, and hoping to get some good discussion about it from the other people on the forum. I do believe that's the entire goal of the forum, is it not?

Yet another assumption, which is lovely. I work 40+ hours a week as I would hope most people my age do as well. I also attend school 3 days a week which takes up another large chunk of my time. If that, by your standards, means I'm "playing shooters and watching South Park all day because of my requirement for constant entertainment" then I guess that's what I do. :D

Never argued with that. The masses bitch about something every year. I've dealt with years and years of complaining because EA decided to not incorporate freakin' dreadlocks. That's just how it is. Look at any game. ANY game. There will be a group of people bitching about it for no reason. I'm not one of them. Every single thing I've said has legitimate truth to it and anyone who knows anything about the game knows I'm right. The problem you have is you assume I'm talking about the game when I say something about the poor defense. You've played the game so you're obviously going to know exactly how it plays. I'm basing my opinion on a video. For all I know, that video could be the polar opposite of what you experienced. Until we've both played the final version, we're probably going to have differing opinions. Hell, we'll more than likely have differing opinions after the game releases simply because you play against the CPU and I play against human players, so we're obviously going to have different issues. The issues I experience online are just as much of an issue as anything else on the game. "You should expect that playing against random players" doesn't fly. It's a feature that EA incorporated into their game. If they're not going to support it, balance it out, and fix the issues, then they should remove it entirely from the game.

I also don't really get the bit about trading games in for my next high. Why exactly would I need to trade a game in to play another? Like I said, I've followed this game since I started playing video games back with the '98 version. I've played online every single year since it's origination back with the '04 version. If there's ANYONE that's earned the right to give honest feedback, it's me. If you want to bypass that and call it bitching, then you go right ahead. People like me are the ones that get the info across to EA that can improve the game if they listen to it. If you expect me to be a "yes" man, then I suggest you just stop reading my posts.

The biggest problem in my opinion IOU is that for NCAA all I ever read is debbie downer or negative nancy stuff from you.

Just from my point of view and only my point of view this grows tiring to read all the time. I understand your concern and you have brought your points out for us to look into once the game drops, but aside from that there really isn't anything more we can say. The community day group have all said things were better defensively (you would have none of that, as far as listening to their opinions). Then when we have seen some (very little examples by far for gameplay) instances of the zone coverage being improved from 2011. So at this point there is nothing more to debate or that we could debate that would be worthwhile because your stance is very clear to everyone here.

I understand your concern and look forward to testing out 2012 just as everyone else is I'm sure.

Had you not added the post about "putting every penny to your name that 2012 isn't ANY BETTER then 2011" then most of this could have been avoided, just my opinion.

I OU a Beatn
06-19-2011, 06:53 PM
I've posted several things that were in praise of EA/NCAA. It's just the nature of the site. I could post a billion things here in high praise of NCAA, but as soon as I'd post one negative thing, it would be the end of the world. Over on Utopia I'm known for being an EA fanboy, and over here I'm an EA hater. That's just what I do I guess. :D

I mean, it's MY opinion. There isn't anyone in the world that should be getting offended/upset/whatever over what I say. I'm merely posting my opinion on what I've seen in the videos. The shotgun run blocking looks improved, for example. However, on the other hand, I'm not satisfied with what I've seen from zone defense. I mean, I realize some people are content with everything, but I'm not. If the game has issues, I'm going to post about it. It's nothing personal and it's sure as hell not intended for anyone to take personally.

As for zone coverage, only time will tell. We'll be finding out in 9 days exactly how improved and effective or ineffective it is. If it is improved, I'll be the first one in line telling EA good job. If it isn't, I'll be on here "bellyaching."

Paakaa10
06-19-2011, 07:42 PM
I don't think anybody needs to apologize for having an opinion; communities are most successful when multiple opinions and viewpoints are on display, and when space and consideration are given to those viewpoints regardless of whether or not they mesh with the opinions of "the majority."

I just think we're reaching the point of pre-release burnout for people, which has everyone on edge. Now we've heard about the majority of the additions to the game this year, and we've seen a really large amount of images, videos, blogs, and impressions. The game's release date is less than a month away and the demo--the first hands-on for the majority of people here--is just over a week away. Nobody wants to hear about how the game is or accept videos at face value anymore; everyone just wants to play the game.

People who have a positive opinion of what they expect of the game based on all that we've seen so far are going to take exception to people who still hold misgivings; those who have a negative opinion are going to feel the same way about the people who are feeling too positive. I imagine this would be true regardless of how well-founded or poorly-articulated a person's opinion is at this point. Any disagreements right now are likely going to be testy until the demo is out and people have games under their belt; even after the demo is out, each opinion will still be that of the individual and will likely result in heated debate by anybody too invested in the game.

I've been liable to get "fired up" in conversation about the game as much as anybody else; I just think that the key--especially at this time in the cycle--is to try and keep a level-head at a point when all anybody wants to do is stop talking and get playing.

steelerfan
06-19-2011, 07:46 PM
Had you not added the post about "putting every penny to your name that 2012 isn't ANY BETTER then 2011" then most of this could have been avoided, just my opinion.

+1

Oneback
06-19-2011, 08:02 PM
I agree with I OU in that I am not satisfied with where zone defense is currently, but that's because I am a huge believer in full pattern reading coverages. The current state of zone coverage (NCAA 12) is that of pattern awareness within a zone drop structure. In a pattern reading defense the coverage defenders play zone coverage before the pattern expresses itself to gain leverage on receivers and man coverage after the pattern expresses itself. In spot dropping coverage the defender is locked into an area and reads and reacts to the quarterback then matches up with receivers within his area.

EA looks to have implemented a "pattern reading" scheme within spot dropping zone coverage. I imagine this was done to ultimately "fix" zone coverage within the limitations of the current system. That limitation being there is nothing for the defender to read as they would in a traditional spot drop coverage (vision cone was implemented to solve this problem).

This style of zone coverage will solve a lot of problems, however once the player starts utilizing more of the modern passing concepts spot dropping zones break down and people start yelling cheese because the route combination "takes advantage of the limited AI". This is also why there aren't a lot of dual reads by receivers as this would break down the spot dropping zone.

This does not mean the new zone improvements aren't worth while as they will help against the majority of things you see from an offense, however if you run into a player that knows what they are doing on offense your going to have problems. Couple this with custom playbooks and you can now build a playbook full of modern pass concepts.

Thankfully, at least from what I saw early on you can generate pressure in NCAA 12 and couple that with impreved fire zone coverages you can force mistakes.

Yes, there are still issues, but you now you've got some tools to work with on defense.

I OU a Beatn
06-19-2011, 08:14 PM
This does not mean the new zone improvements aren't worth while as they will help against the majority of things you see from an offense, however if you run into a player that knows what they are doing on offense your going to have problems. Couple this with custom playbooks and you can now build a playbook full of modern pass concepts.

Thankfully, at least from what I saw early on you can generate pressure in NCAA 12 and couple that with impreved fire zone coverages you can force mistakes.

Yes, there are still issues, but you now you've got some tools to work with on defense.

That's extremely encouraging. As long as there's tools at the defense's disposal, then I'll be happy. We've not had such tools since this game launched on 360/PS3 so that would definitely be a drastic improvement if the defense is balanced up with the offense.

xMrHitStickx904
06-19-2011, 10:03 PM
Pre-release burnout is the best way to put it. Normally, we'd have a demo by now, so we could discuss the zones from a hands on experience. Demo doesn't drop until the 28th, and with all of the new features and changes to gameplay, everybody wants a crack at it. While i'm interested in the effectiveness of zones this year, I still want to see just how effective the shotgun running is. I've heard it's improved, but I made the switch to a spread option, no huddle look in 11, and I gotta be able to run it well for it to be really effective.

rhombic21
06-19-2011, 10:05 PM
I think that's the key -- that the defense at least has some tools to fight back with. No, zones aren't quite where they need to be yet, and so there's probably still going to be an offensive tilt to the game against top players. But at least now it will force people to actually utilize modern passing concepts, as opposed to having completely simplistic schemes, and it will give the defense a chance to force enough mistakes so that the game is more of a chess match. That's my hope anyways.

And I'm hopeful because, as bad as NCAA '11 was defensively, I eventually got to a place where I was playing pretty good defense, even out of zones, mainly by developing some zone blitz schemes that consistently forced sacks or bad throws. But there were just certain things that you couldn't stop because the coverages were simply too bad, and a lot of times the offense would get bailed out because defenders were nowhere near where they were supposed to be. Or you'd end up with 3rd and forever and watch them hit 4 verts against Cover 4. It got to the point where dropped interceptions produced incredible rage, because I knew that there was a good chance the offense was going to convert a 3rd or 4th and forever.

So even if zones aren't better, I'm hoping that a major improvement in that area, in terms of players at least being more aggressive to match to the routes with less standing around and covering grass, will result in defense being less frustrating and more fun. If the game is set up to the point where I can bait an offensive player into thinking I'm going to do one thing, and then confuse them into doing another, and have it actually work, then I'll be happy. Also, if 3rd and 10+ is actually difficult to convert, then that would be huge. Because even on NCAA '11, there were a huge percentage of drives where, at some point in the drive, I'd force a 3rd and 10+ or even a 4th and 7 or so, and the person would still end up converting it. If these zones can at least help me get stops on those completely obvious passing situations, then it'll be a huge improvement, in my opinion. Also, right now trying to play user defense out of zone is like trying to plug a leak with your finger. You can stop the water at one place, but then it just springs a leak somewhere else. If zones are at least to the point where I can manually defend with one guy and feel good that the rest of my team is going to be pretty close to where they're supposed to, then that will be huge.

Right now I think I'm going to go back to playing with the MLB, because it looks like the safety play is MUCH better than it was last year. A lot of the small issues that I've seen in the NCAA '12 videos are things that could be corrected with good user play at the LB position. On NCAA '11 the deep safeties were basically useless on anything but extremely deep bombs, but the LBs weren't much better at the shorter stuff. So you could control a safety and try to cheat a little bit to rob some of the intermediate routes, but then your LBs would leave guys wide open underneath, or you could control the MLB but then your deep safeties would drop so far back and not guard anybody that you essentially had to cover 30 yards downfield, even in defenses like Cover 3 and Cover 4.

steelerfan
06-19-2011, 10:15 PM
I think that's the key -- that the defense at least has some tools to fight back with. No, zones aren't quite where they need to be yet, and so there's probably still going to be an offensive tilt to the game against top players. But at least now it will force people to actually utilize modern passing concepts, as opposed to having completely simplistic schemes, and it will give the defense a chance to force enough mistakes so that the game is more of a chess match. That's my hope anyways.

Well said. I think that's a realistic hope.

rhombic21
06-19-2011, 10:23 PM
The main things I'm interested to see in the demo are defense against wheel routes (i.e. plays like "Seattle" out of Ace Bunch), and to look at how well blitzes work to see what changes there are in that area. I noticed in several of the videos that they seem to have added a fair number of new blitzes in the stock playbooks, so I'm interested to play around with those, as well as with some of the custom blitzes that I've created in the past. In particular I'm hoping that one of the teams runs a 3-4 defense (or that we have the option to use that defense), as it was virtually impossible to get blitzes to work correctly from that set in NCAA '11. I'd also like to look at the 3-3-5 and 4-2-5 to test out some of the man align issues.

kindella2
06-20-2011, 04:35 PM
What i saw that i liked.
Kickoffs seem to be returnable again.
Screens seem to work and the DE doesnt automatically trail the RB.
Zone seems to be working.

Didnt see much that i would be up in arms about...like an earlier poster said im ready for the demo then the game. Its nice to watch but now im ready to play. If everything works like they have previewed then we will easily :easy: have the best game in years.

Whatcha
06-21-2011, 05:53 AM
I liked what I saw, but have a couple questions about the video makers. It seemed as though they were testing certain things in the game (as displayed by each user showing the play logic pre-play). Was the individual using Oklahoma State intentionally throwing into the zone coverage? On almost every play the open receiver was NOT the receiver thrown to. Two, as someone stated previously, they were obviously using a special mode because Oklahoma state stayed on offense the entire time. Is that a mode that can be used in the actual game? It's something I know me and a few other guys could and would use in order to lab a few things. Thanks.

psusnoop
06-21-2011, 08:47 AM
Erin Andrews is definitely still in the game; I guess the problem right now is that none of the high-quality direct-feed footage has shown off the point in the game where her contribution to the commentary is biggest for NCAA Football 12: after halftime in the "GameTrack" feature. There are a bunch of newly-recorded lines--I believe from all three commentators--to accompany this new presentational element.

As to the Oklahoma State player who gets hurt:

7:10 of the video is where the play starts.
7:20 is where he gets lit up catching the ball across the middle.
8:30 of the video--after one play has been run since the injury--is when the "injury status" pops up from the scorebug: "Injury Update: OK ST WR #84 - Back Spasms, Will Return Soon"
8:55 of the video--two plays have now been run since the injury--and you get the "Coaching Decision" pop up as to whether the player should return to the game or not.


I think one reason we might not have heard any Erin Andrews commentary on the injury is because obviously there was some special mode setup to keep Oklahoma State on offense even after turnovers and missed field goals; the commentary from Nessler is incredulously talking about it being a 16- and 17-play offensive drive on the two plays after the injury.

Thankfully we're just a few days away from the UStream on the demo and hopefully we'll see some footage from that with Erin Andrews commentary; if we get to play a full game in the demo, I really hope that the "GameTrack" feature is included so you all can see that too.

Also is this new this year or did I not pay any attention to it last year. Look at the pic: *** removed pic because it didn't capture right and or I copied wrong from work cpu :D


I know it is hard to make out but it says the "re-injury risk Medium". For some reason I don't remember this.

Paakaa10
06-21-2011, 11:21 AM
Also is this new this year or did I not pay any attention to it last year. Look at the pic:

I know it is hard to make out but it says the "re-injury risk Medium". For some reason I don't remember this.

The picture is not working for me but I believe the "Re-Injury Risk" is new this year for NCAA, though it was in Madden NFL 11. Also new for NCAA Football 12 is that the "coaching decision" screen here shows you the OVR rating for the player who will be substituted in for the injured player if you decide to pull the injured player out of the game. In NCAA Football 11 you did not get that information when making the decision.

EDIT: Here's an image I captured showing the decision box:
http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/coachinjurydecision.png

psusnoop
06-21-2011, 11:31 AM
Much better pic Paakaa, thanks.

Yes that is what I thought, while small it is a nice touch overall. Gives you more of idea of whether or not you can roll the dice and risk it more and even just knowing how serious the risk is for that matter. Good touch!

Paakaa10
06-21-2011, 11:35 AM
Yes that is what I thought, while small it is a nice touch overall. Gives you more of idea of whether or not you can roll the dice and risk it more and even just knowing how serious the risk is for that matter. Good touch!

Definitely agree; it's a small "fix," but it removes the added step of going to the menu and checking out your depth chart to see what you're working with in the second-string for that position if you decide that the injury is too serious to just throw the player right back on the field.

psusnoop
06-21-2011, 11:38 AM
I agree, I can see that little bit of information really helping out in the SBCOL OD that Gschwendt runs that I'm in. Using that low tier team this could really be useful.

Whatcha
06-21-2011, 03:31 PM
Quick question for you guys. How deep are you into your rosters? Is it crazy that I can tell u the OVR for my top 2 or 3 at the oft injured position? I spend my offseasons ensuring I get depth and during position changes and setting of my depth chart I figure out what I'm working with two levels in.

AustinWolv
06-21-2011, 04:30 PM
Well, look at who showed up on the site......you all excited that OKST is loaded?

psusnoop
06-21-2011, 06:25 PM
Quick question for you guys. How deep are you into your rosters? Is it crazy that I can tell u the OVR for my top 2 or 3 at the oft injured position? I spend my offseasons ensuring I get depth and during position changes and setting of my depth chart I figure out what I'm working with two levels in.

I know but I'm in a couple or a few OD's and sometimes just seeing that as a reminder can be nice so I can evaluate risk reward kind of thing. I know for instance in our PowerHouse Online Dynasty I was PSU and I could tell you ever single player their ratings and where on the Depth chart they were. But in our SBCOL online dynasty I was Western Kentucky and had many walk ons for a couple of years and I didn't know my exact two deep. So my answer is both yes and no pending on the situtation and team.

PeteyKirch
06-21-2011, 06:31 PM
Quick question for you guys. How deep are you into your rosters? Is it crazy that I can tell u the OVR for my top 2 or 3 at the oft injured position? I spend my offseasons ensuring I get depth and during position changes and setting of my depth chart I figure out what I'm working with two levels in.

I know my team inside and out, and can tell you the specialties of my players, I can tell you who is meant for what, what player would come in what situation and what not. I try to mimic my NCAA Roster to the real thing.

Whatcha
06-21-2011, 10:00 PM
Yes, Austin, I'm here. I'm actually pumped for OkSt, Michigan, and Air Force. Really looking forward to the coaching carousel and using it in an online dynasty.

AustinWolv
06-22-2011, 12:25 AM
Same here, same here. Going to take the Wolverines to the top!

Paakaa10
06-27-2011, 01:38 PM
From the EA SPORTS YouTube page:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok457IuL1ko


In this Quick Look, we show off LSU taking on the Aggies at Kyle Field in 7 minutes of pure, uncut gameplay. Subscribe for more from NCAA Football 12! Don't forget to download the DEMO on June 28th, and pre-order the game. In stores July 12th!

xMrHitStickx904
06-27-2011, 01:41 PM
Does EA not have the rights to the Texas A&M fight songs?

morsdraconis
06-27-2011, 04:55 PM
Looks like that video wasn't supposed to be made public yet...

Paakaa10
06-27-2011, 05:18 PM
Looks like that video wasn't supposed to be made public yet...

Apparently not haha. I watch the EA SPORTS YouTube page rather religiously to find things to share here and actually got to watch the video before it was taken down. Don't know if anybody thought to grab a copy of it to upload on their own YouTube page.

Oneback
06-27-2011, 06:33 PM
Here is TCU vs Boise State:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrKnhwOXau8