NCAA Basketball 2010-2011 Season Discussion Thread

[morsdraconis]

And there goes the last 1 seed.

[CLW]

The way this tourny has played out just leads further to the argument that this is the WORST field of teams in the history of the tourny. VCU is NOT a good basketball team and did NOT deserve to be in the tourny. However, they were selected and have played out of their minds for 4 straight games now.

I just have a funny feeling that Butler is going to be cutting the nets when it is all finished. They have the best coach remaining and they seem to always find crazy ways to win games.

[JeffHCross]

I just have a funny feeling that Butler is going to be cutting the nets when it is all finished. They have the best coach remaining and they seem to always find crazy ways to win games.#8 Butler vs #11 VCU for a trip to the National Title Game. Wow.

[morsdraconis]

The way this tourny has played out just leads further to the argument that this is the WORST field of teams in the history of the tourny. VCU is NOT a good basketball team and did NOT deserve to be in the tourny. However, they were selected and have played out of their minds for 4 straight games now.

I just have a funny feeling that Butler is going to be cutting the nets when it is all finished. They have the best coach remaining and they seem to always find crazy ways to win games.

I'm sorry, but you're argument is retarded. That's like saying the Giants didn't deserve to win the Super Bowl a few years back because they weren't very good during the season but was good enough to get into the playoffs and then get on the roll that they got on. Or the Steelers when they went four in a row to win the Super Bowl. It's just silly. ANY team, no matter who they are, is good if they can win 5 in a row especially against teams like Georgetown, Florida State, USC, Purdue, and Kansas. How you can argue differently is ridiculous. A bad team, which you are trying to say that they are, doesn't beat those teams like VCU has. It's not like VCU has done nothing but squeak by or something. They've made teams play out of their element with solid team basketball and fundamentals. I mean, holding the best shooting team in the NCAA (Kansas at 53.8% or something ridiculous like that) to 33.8% and 2-22 from 3-point range isn't just luck; especially since Kansas killed them on the boards (+11 and 19 to 7 in offensive rebounds).

[CLW]

I'm sorry, but you're argument is retarded. That's like saying the Giants didn't deserve to win the Super Bowl a few years back because they weren't very good during the season but was good enough to get into the playoffs and then get on the roll that they got on. Or the Steelers when they went four in a row to win the Super Bowl. It's just silly. ANY team, no matter who they are, is good if they can win 5 in a row especially against teams like Georgetown, Florida State, USC, Purdue, and Kansas. How you can argue differently is ridiculous. A bad team, which you are trying to say that they are, doesn't beat those teams like VCU has. It's not like VCU has done nothing but squeak by or something. They've made teams play out of their element with solid team basketball and fundamentals. I mean, holding the best shooting team in the NCAA (Kansas at 53.8% or something ridiculous like that) to 33.8% and 2-22 from 3-point range isn't just luck; especially since Kansas killed them on the boards (+11 and 19 to 7 in offensive rebounds).

Do good teams lose to: South Florida (#133); Georgia St. (#223); Northeastern (#188) and James Madison (#110)? The answer is no they don't. VCU is just "in the zone"; "on fire"; "playing out of its mind" etc...

#s do NOT lie. Kenpom currently has VCU as the 58th best team in the country before today's game.

It's simply just a run of "luck". Could that run take them all the way to a title? Sure. However, that does not mean they DESERVED to be an at-large selection in this year's field. They clearly did not.

Nebraska is every bit as good/talented as VCU. (See Ranked 62nd in Kenpom and VCU had a similar rating prior to the tourny) If the Cornhuskers made the field they also could have made a run. However, that wouldn't magically make Nebraska one of the best 4 teams this year.

The NCAA tourny is beautiful b/c anyone can get lucky and win it all. Put VCU in a 7 game series like the NBA and they don't make it out of round 1. However, in a one and done format anything can and sometimes does happen.

[morsdraconis]

Do you know if there were any extenuating circumstances that prevented them from playing well earlier in the season when they lost? I mean, there are things that happen to teams as they grow during the season that prevents them from being as good as when it all comes together in the end. I mean, for god's sake, that's what Caliparri builds his teams around. Teams look for getting everything right once tournament time comes around and if they have a few speed bumps on the way during the regular season, so what?


And, bringing out outside sources for "rankings" is just silly. Every team plays poorly from time to time and losses a few games. Does them losing to Georgia State, South Florida, Northeastern, and James Madison mean absolutely anything at all now? Nope, not at all. Them beating Kansas, Georgetown, Florida State, USC and Purdue most certainly does though. I'd say beating those previous teams FAR outweighs anything that happened during the regular season or their conference tournament. Winning when it's win or go home is FAR more impressive than winning during the regular season where a loss isn't the end of the world. Especially considering they've been running teams out of the building for the most part.


But, of course, the fact that you think VCU "got lucky" to be where they are is just flat ridiculous. No team that does what they have done should EVER be considered "lucky".

Lucky is hitting a game winning shot once to upset the favorite to win it for that round and then getting trounced by the next team that they play. Lucky is most definitely not completely blowing out two teams that most people thought would win it all (Purdue and Kansas) and thoroughly handle another that a lot of people thought had a chance (Georgetown).

Your ACC snobbery is really starting to show CLW and it's not a good look for ya man.

[CLW]

Do you know if there were any extenuating circumstances that prevented them from playing well earlier in the season when they lost? I mean, there are things that happen to teams as they grow during the season that prevents them from being as good as when it all comes together in the end. I mean, for god's sake, that's what Caliparri builds his teams around. Teams look for getting everything right once tournament time comes around and if they have a few speed bumps on the way during the regular season, so what?


And, bringing out outside sources for "rankings" is just silly. Every team plays poorly from time to time and losses a few games. Does them losing to Georgia State, South Florida, Northeastern, and James Madison mean absolutely anything at all now? Nope, not at all. Them beating Kansas, Georgetown, Florida State, USC and Purdue most certainly does though. I'd say beating those previous teams FAR outweighs anything that happened during the regular season or their conference tournament. Winning when it's win or go home is FAR more impressive than winning during the regular season where a loss isn't the end of the world. Especially considering they've been running teams out of the building for the most part.


But, of course, the fact that you think VCU "got lucky" to be where they are is just flat ridiculous. No team that does what they have done should EVER be considered "lucky".

Lucky is hitting a game winning shot once to upset the favorite to win it for that round and then getting trounced by the next team that they play. Lucky is most definitely not completely blowing out two teams that most people thought would win it all (Purdue and Kansas) and thoroughly handle another that a lot of people thought had a chance (Georgetown).

Your ACC snobbery is really starting to show CLW and it's not a good look for ya man.

I see so the facts/evidence I show you as to why VCU is on a lucky streak has no weight but any/all evidence you have saying they are the greatest team since 1991 UNLV is 100% full proof.

Seeing as Kansas is by far a more talented and has played better than anyone else remaining I presume you are predicting them to WAX Butler and UConn/Kentucky/UNC to cut down the nets?

Don't get me wrong its a "cute"/"nice" story and all but anyone who thinks VCU is one of the 4 best teams in the country needs to have his head examined. They are a 50-60th best team in the country that is on a tear. The data (including their run in the tourny) backs up my argument. If you want to ignore facts/data so be it.

[steelerfan]

Comparing the Giants, Steelers (and, don't forget, the Packers this year) to VCU is what's "retarded". If the Seahawks had won the Super Bowl this season, there'd be a better parallel. A team that shouldn't have been in. When the Steelers made that run in '05, I felt they were as good as anyone in the league (and, no, I don't always think that), but they were crippled by injury and misfortune for 3/4 of the season. When they got healthy, they started doing what they should have been doing all along (people forget they were 15-1 the previous year). I knew they'd beat Cincinnati. I knew they had a shot to beat Indy (but wasn't convinced). Before the Indy game I said (many, many times) "if they get past the Colts, look out, they will win it all". For me, Denver and Seattle were mere formalities. I would venture to say that no one with any sense whatsoever has felt that VCU was as good as anyone in the NCAA this year, but just weren't catching the breaks.

That being said, if they win it all, they absolutely deserve it. I will be rooting for the VCU/Butler winner just as I rooted for Butler last year.

As for Jeff, good question, lol. I think people on both sides of the debate will get ammo from a scenario like this.

[morsdraconis]

I see so the facts/evidence I show you as to why VCU is on a lucky streak has no weight but any/all evidence you have saying they are the greatest team since 1991 UNLV is 100% full proof.

Seeing as Kansas is by far a more talented and has played better than anyone else remaining I presume you are predicting them to WAX Butler and UConn/Kentucky/UNC to cut down the nets?

Don't get me wrong its a "cute"/"nice" story and all but anyone who thinks VCU is one of the 4 best teams in the country needs to have his head examined. They are a 50-60th best team in the country that is on a tear. The data (including their run in the tourny) backs up my argument. If you want to ignore facts/data so be it.

Do I think they have the ability to win it all? Absolutely. If they keep hitting 13+ threes a game and continue to play defense FAR beyond what they did during the regular season (where they were ranked 250+ in ppg allowed and FG percentage), they have just as much of a chance to win it all as anyone else. Do I think they'll beat Butler? Probably not. Butler's defense is ridiculously good. But, so was Florida State's so who knows? That's why they play the game.

It just blows me away that you can flat out say that they are lucky to be where they are. No team, no matter how good/poor they were/are is lucky after beating the type of teams that they've beat in this tournament the way that they've won.

As for ignoring "facts" and the data that you're bringing forward. You do realize that anything like that that comes from any sense of analytical breakdown (like that of kenpom) is weighted in the idea that the Big East, ACC, and PAC 10 are the superior conferences and, therefore, playing a shitty strength of schedule like Duke did (thus really not PROVING how good of a team they were one way or another) really just made the ACC (and therefore any team that played Duke) lopsided in a lopsided direction? These websites that try to take an analytical approach to the setup (like kenpom and the various formulas and mathematical theories that he applies to his setup) fall on deaf ears in my opinion because they have the results weighted in the sense of automatically assuming that one conference or team is better than the other because of past results (whether in favor or against said team) without any real factual scores to show truth/falsehood to that statement.

For anyone that actually watches college football or basketball outside of the BCS/Power Conferences, I guarantee you that they can tell you that those teams play each other just as hard as any other conference in the country. Because of past performance, to assume that VCU is worse than 50 other schools is just ridiculous. The schools above them in Kenpom's rankings that they actually played?

School | Ranking | Result
UCLA | 53 | W
Richmond | 42 | L
ODU | 48 | W/L/L
George Mason | 28 | L/W
USC | 52 | W
Georgetown | 45 | W
Purdue | 9 | W
Florida St | 30 | W
Kansas | 2 | W


How anyone can say that any one team is worse or better than the other without those teams playing one game against each other (or at least playing the same opponents) is just silly.

Kenpom itself says almost that:


The first thing you should know about this system is that it is designed to be purely predictive. If you’re looking for a system that rates teams on how “good” their season has been, you’ve come to the wrong place. There are enough systems out there that rank teams based on what is “good” by just about any definition you can think of. So I’d encourage you to google college basketball ratings (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2004-38%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=%22college+basketball+ratings) or even try the opinion polls for something that is more your style.

And to come back to something you said before about a 7 game series: How would we actually know if they didn't do that? You might THINK that to be the case, but without actually doing it, how can you know for sure?

I mean, I'm right there with most everyone. I didn't think they'd beat USC, much less get past Georgetown, Purdue, and Kansas, but they did and convincingly in every single one of those instances. It's nuts to say it's anything but luck and not to give them credit for what they've done and, again, just shows your biases whether you think so or not.

[morsdraconis]

I mean, these rankings are so silly. How can you possibly know that Ohio State is better than Kansas, Duke, and Pittsburgh until they play one another? So why assume that Pittsburgh is better than Connecticut? Hell, they split the two games they played against one another (Connecticut winning in the Big East Tournament and Pittsburgh winning at home earlier that year). So who's better? Well, you're going to say that Pittsburgh is because you're pre-programmed to look at their schedule, assume because they won more games, they're better, but that's just not true. Yet, Connecticut is ranked 12th on this silly poll and Pittsburgh is ranked 5th.

I'm sure you're going to contend that Duke, Ohio State, Kansas, and Pittsburgh are still the best teams in the nation, right?

[JeffHCross]

Seriously, let's not get into an argument about polls in the sport that actually has a tournament.

[JBHuskers]

VCU comes home....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PjdQU0y6kk

[jaymo76]

VCU comes home....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PjdQU0y6kk

How can you not pull for these guys to win it all? What an amazing story.

[JBHuskers]

RT @darrenrovell: Nielsen: 99.9 million unique viewers have watched the NCAA Tournament on TV, that's 32% of America.

[jaymo76]

RT @darrenrovell: Nielsen: 99.9 million unique viewers have watched the NCAA Tournament on TV, that's 32% of America.

Does that include internet streaming???

[JBHuskers]

So VCU won the CBI tourney last year...does that mean the winner of Oregon/Creighton goes to the Final Four next year? :D

[SmoothPancakes]

And Alabama is given the shocker by Wichita State in the NIT Championship game.

[JBHuskers]

Butler's mascot gets to fly first class to Houston. (http://www.tmz.com/2011/04/01/butler-university-mascot-blue-two-final-four-ncaa-basketball-southwest-flight-photos/)

[CLW]

Butler's mascot gets to fly first class to Houston. (http://www.tmz.com/2011/04/01/butler-university-mascot-blue-two-final-four-ncaa-basketball-southwest-flight-photos/)

Is he still banned from the court? I know the NCAA banned him (and other live mascots) from the arenas.

[cdj]

Seeing reports that Oklahoma has hired Lon Kruger from UNLV, though there's also reports he has turned the job down. If true, he would be a good hire IMO.

[CLW]

and VCU's 3 Pt shooting comes back down to earth and they fall. what a ride but the fire eventually ran out.

[SmoothPancakes]

So sad. I really wanted to see them win it all. :(

[jaymo76]

So sad. I really wanted to see them win it all. :(

Me too but fingers crossed that Butler can bring home the title.

[cdj]

Butler vs. UConn......who you got?


I want Butler to win, but think UConn will. :(

[SmoothPancakes]

Butler vs. UConn......who you got?


I want Butler to win, but think UConn will. :(

Same. Butler makes the great run a second year in a row, and for a second year in a row, falls short. Though I would rather Butler win it than have UConn win and have to listen to ESPN verbally jacking off Kemba Walker all week long on every program.

[CLW]

I got a feeling Butler will win it. They looked better than either UConn or Kentucky last night. Brad Stevens is a master at scouting teams tendencies.

[jaymo76]

I'm going with Butler. Though UCONN seems to be the superior team I just have a feeling the universe will balance out. After being so close last year, Butler is on the verge of greatness and will not be denied two times in a row.

[morsdraconis]

I actually have to disagree on UConn being the superior team. They really only have two players, Kemba Walker and Jeremy Lamb (who has really on come on as of late but has scored double figures since the beginning of the Big East Tournament). Occasionally, Shaz Napier steps it up, but, for the most part, they have Walker and Lamb and that's pretty much it.

Butler plays defense like WVU plays defense. It's nasty, physical, and gritty. They outhustle you and they outrebound you (rebounding has been a BIG issue with Connecticut though they've stepped it up some since starting their run, they still get outrebounded on the offensive side quite often and usually by quite a bit).

I think Butler has a very good chance of taking the trophy home from this matchup and I'm pulling for them to do it.

[psuexv]

I would agree with mors, UConn isn't the superior team but they do have the superior player. Kemba Walker has been unbelievable since the start of the Big East tourney and nobody has been able to find a way to shut him down. I think the game will come down to him. If Butler can find a way to put the clamps on him they win.

[JBHuskers]

Frank Martin to Miami rumors keep swirling. I guess he's going to lose his best player to graduation, and he's from the Miami area. Probably more mob ties down there than in Manhattan :D

[CLW]

Frank Martin to Miami rumors keep swirling. I guess he's going to lose his best player to graduation, and he's from the Miami area. Probably more mob ties down there than in Manhattan :D

Mizzou people are ticked about getting the former Canes coach too. Apparently, the people of Columbia think they can get Brad Stevens or something.

[morsdraconis]

I would agree with mors, UConn isn't the superior team but they do have the superior player. Kemba Walker has been unbelievable since the start of the Big East tourney and nobody has been able to find a way to shut him down. I think the game will come down to him. If Butler can find a way to put the clamps on him they win.

Truthfully, I don't think they have to put the clamps on Kemba, just make him a one man game (like he LOVES to do). WVU "shut" him down by forcing him to be their primary scorer and held him to 35% from the field (he still made 4/7 from three though) and basically forcing him to create off the dribble without anywhere to pass the ball and coming in late to help (neutralizing his pass option or helping off of Oriakhi, Okwandu, and Napier only and forcing them to beat us, which, in the end, worked wonderfully).

Why teams have been helping off of Lamb so much just boggles my mind. You'd think they'd learn or something...

[JBHuskers]

Mizzou people are ticked about getting the former Canes coach too. Apparently, the people of Columbia think they can get Brad Stevens or something.

The people of Coloumbia think they're on a higher pedestal than they actually are. A couple of blowout wins in the Brad Smith days, and they think they've owned us for four decades, oh wait....we've owned them for four decades :D

[JBHuskers]

From Gregg Doyel @ CBS, Shaka Smart is staying at VCU.

[CLW]

From Gregg Doyel @ CBS, Shaka Smart is staying at VCU.

Now that is SURPRISING.

Face it. VCU is a bad Div 1 coaching job. I would have thought Mizzou; NC State; etc... were/are all better jobs that he could build off of.

Brad Stevens has a great setup and I could only see him leaving for one of the Blue Blood positions: UCLA; Kansas; Duke; UNC; Kentucky; Indiana.

[SmoothPancakes]

I'm actually not very surprised. Shaka seems like a guy who enjoys where he is with VCU and enjoys his players that he has now. Instead of becoming one of these coaches that jumps ship every 2-3 years for the next best job that comes calling to them, he's showing and proving his loyalty that he has to VCU and his team by staying with them even though he could jump ship to NC State or somewhere else. Some people may think he is an idiot for not taking the cash and "upgrade", but to him, VCU is home. It's where he wants to be and stay and I respect him even more for that decision.

[JBHuskers]

Now that is SURPRISING.

Face it. VCU is a bad Div 1 coaching job. I would have thought Mizzou; NC State; etc... were/are all better jobs that he could build off of.

Brad Stevens has a great setup and I could only see him leaving for one of the Blue Blood positions: UCLA; Kansas; Duke; UNC; Kentucky; Indiana.

I could see him being the successor to Coach K, then I would hate Duke less.

[CLW]

I'm actually not very surprised. Shaka seems like a guy who enjoys where he is with VCU and enjoys his players that he has now. Instead of becoming one of these coaches that jumps ship every 2-3 years for the next best job that comes calling to them, he's showing and proving his loyalty that he has to VCU and his team by staying with them even though he could jump ship to NC State or somewhere else. Some people may think he is an idiot for not taking the cash and "upgrade", but to him, VCU is home. It's where he wants to be and stay and I respect him even more for that decision.


I'm all for loyalty and it absolutely is his choice to make. I just don't think there is anyway possible for Smart to turn VCU into a national power in basketball.



I could see him being the successor to Coach K, then I would hate Duke less.


There seem to be two "factions" of the Duke fanbase: (1) K's replacement "must"/will come from inside the Duke family; (2) Duke should hire the best Coach they can find.


Most seem to believe #1 is most likely. From what I have read/heard unless Dawkins really turns Stanford around the likely replacement for K will be Collins or Wojo (most likely Collins).

I happen to be in the #2 Camp. I'm also a HUGE fan of Brad Stevens. However, I'm not even sure Stevens would be interested in the Duke job. Stevens may have dreams of turning Butler into the next Duke/Kansas/UCLA/Kentucky/Indiana. Indiana is a basketball crazed state; they have great facilities at Butler and are located in a major metropolitan area. The pieces are there to turn Butler into a great basketball program. They simply need to keep winning and probably leave the Horizon league to get into a better/more competitive conference. I could easily see them slide into the Big 10 or the Big East (of the Missippi) Conference.

Moreover, if Stevens is going to make Duke "cool" perhaps I should reconsider. :nod:

[JBHuskers]

I'm all for loyalty and it absolutely is his choice to make. I just don't think there is anyway possible for Smart to turn VCU into a national power in basketball.





There seem to be two "factions" of the Duke fanbase: (1) K's replacement "must"/will come from inside the Duke family; (2) Duke should hire the best Coach they can find.


Most seem to believe #1 is most likely. From what I have read/heard unless Dawkins really turns Stanford around the likely replacement for K will be Collins or Wojo (most likely Collins).

I happen to be in the #2 Camp. I'm also a HUGE fan of Brad Stevens. However, I'm not even sure Stevens would be interested in the Duke job. Stevens may have dreams of turning Butler into the next Duke/Kansas/UCLA/Kentucky/Indiana. Indiana is a basketball crazed state; they have great facilities at Butler and are located in a major metropolitan area. The pieces are there to turn Butler into a great basketball program. They simply need to keep winning and probably leave the Horizon league to get into a better/more competitive conference. I could easily see them slide into the Big 10 or the Big East (of the Missippi) Conference.

Moreover, if Stevens is going to make Duke "cool" perhaps I should reconsider. :nod:

What about Capel? :D :D :D

[CLW]

What about Capel? :D :D :D

:smh: by w/in the Duke "family" I guess I should have defined it as having been a player for K AND an Assistant for K. I like Jeff but I don't recall Capel being on the Duke staff.

I also don't think Quinn Snyder is on the "short list" either. :smh:

The names I typically see from the "family" argument are: (1) Collins; (2) Wojo; (3) Dawkins; (4) Amaker. Although Amaker has sort of fallen off a bit in terms of the Duke fanbase perception recently. My guess is that its probably Collins' job to lose. From what I read/hear he has a pretty big plate in terms of responsibility for an Assistant Coach. But who knows. I do believe K will likely hand pick his successor and want to leave that person in great shape for the next 3-4 years. My gut tells me K has another 6-8 years left in the tank.

Ironically, Shaka has Jeff's old gig at VCU.

[JBHuskers]

What in the world is Quinn Snyder doing now a days?

[HWill]

What in the world is Quinn Snyder doing now a days?

I think he's an assistant coach in the NBA...At least that's what I heard someone say on the radio awhile back.

[steelerfan]

Go Butler!

[jaymo76]

Now that is SURPRISING.

Face it. VCU is a bad Div 1 coaching job. I would have thought Mizzou; NC State; etc... were/are all better jobs that he could build off of.

Brad Stevens has a great setup and I could only see him leaving for one of the Blue Blood positions: UCLA; Kansas; Duke; UNC; Kentucky; Indiana.

I don't think VCU is a BAD coaching position. I think that VCU is a quality programme stuck in a BAD Div 1 conference.

[JeffHCross]

I think that VCU is a quality programme stuck in a BAD Div 1 conference.A conference with ODU, George Mason, and VCU sure looks decent to me.

I'm all for loyalty and it absolutely is his choice to make. I just don't think there is anyway possible for Smart to turn VCU into a national power in basketball.Right ... which only matters if that's what he wants to do. I don't think anybody would harbor the thought that VCU could turn into a national power, nor is that the primary goal of every coach.

I'm not surprised that Smart decided to stay. He doesn't seem the type to cut and run. However, the length of the deal was slightly surprising. An eight-year commitment is a long time.

I could easily see them slide into the Big 10 or the Big East (of the Missippi) Conference.TCU's not east of the Mississippi ;)
And no way in hell Re: Big Ten. No football.

[SmoothPancakes]

And no way in hell Re: Big Ten. No football.

This. The Big Ten will never turn into the Big East and such with adding schools for only basketball.

[morsdraconis]

You don't have to be a "national power" to have a chance to be great in college basketball. That's what's truly beautiful about the NCAA Tournament. Be great enough to make it in there, and then be great enough to do something with that birth. VCU did that, and, that, along with how incredibly passionate for the game Shaka Smart looks, will do leaps and bounds for their recruiting. This will definitely not be the last time we see VCU deep in the tournament.

[SmoothPancakes]

And down goes Butler in the championship game for a second straight year, one of the worst games I have ever sat through in my life.

[HWill]

one of the worst games I have ever sat through in my life.

THIS.

[morsdraconis]

I'm not going to lie, I barely watched any of it. Butler's games are never pretty, just like WVU's games are never pretty. I didn't have a horse in the race (aka WVU wasn't there) so I decided not to watch. I knew it was going to be a low scoring affair where whoever could get a lead would end up winning it all and, low-and-behold, Connecticut pulled out in front with about 10-12 minutes left and Butler couldn't do anything about it.

Will be interesting to see if Brad Stevens stays at Butler or moves on to another school in one of the "big boy" leagues.



In other news, fuck every conference that isn't the Big East (who is still the best conference)! :D

[cdj]

Are there even any good power jobs open at this point? (NC State is a 'no.' I don't think many coaches want to go there now with Duke and UNC currently on pretty big upswings.) I can see Stevens taking the Indiana job if Crean gets canned in the next year or two. Otherwise, I think he'll be at Butler for the foreseeable future.

Missouri has very good facilities ('amazing' is the adjective that keeps getting thrown around), but despite some great players, teams, and seasons have never made a Final Four. Haith may have some success at a school that wants to win in basketball and doesn't have to compete with a bunch of other in-state schools like the Canes did. On the surface, it doesn't look to be a very impressive hire, however.

Martin to Miami does make some sense. I can see that one happening.

Did they tighten up those rims tonight or what? I can't stand when they have the rims/hoops mic'd up and every miss comes across as a loud 'CLANG!' That makes a bad shooting night even more unbearable to viewers IMO.

[JBHuskers]

And down goes Butler in the championship game for a second straight year, one of the worst games I have ever sat through in my life.

I'm glad I had this game on the other TV while I was watching WWE :D

I coulda swore that they were going to take the rims down and install peach baskets after the half.

[jaymo76]

That game was absolutely awful in every way shape and form. After a great tourney, to end like that is really dissapointing.

[SmoothPancakes]

That game was absolutely awful in every way shape and form. After a great tourney, to end like that is really dissapointing.

Yeah, it was really horrible. If I had been one of those idiots spending $5,000-10,000 for a seat, after sitting through something like that, I would have been demanding my money back at gunpoint.

[CLW]

That game was just AWFUL. Both teams defenses were good (Note not great). The shooting by both teams was HORRENDOUS. Butler had a ton of open looks. NONE of them fell. UConn wasn't any better shooting the basketball but got away with it due to its superior size/athleticism.

Many have said (and I believe correctly) that this was/is the worst field of teams in the history of the tourny. Perhaps, it was fitting that this perhaps was the worst championship game in history. I certainly cannot recall seeing both the winning and losing teams playing so poorly.

[psusnoop]

FUGLY! yes 3, 3 freaking 2 point baskets made the whole game.

[morsdraconis]

That game was just AWFUL. Both teams defenses were good (Note not great). The shooting by both teams was HORRENDOUS. Butler had a ton of open looks. NONE of them fell. UConn wasn't any better shooting the basketball but got away with it due to its superior size/athleticism.

Many have said (and I believe correctly) that this was/is the worst field of teams in the history of the tourny. Perhaps, it was fitting that this perhaps was the worst championship game in history. I certainly cannot recall seeing both the winning and losing teams playing so poorly.

You know, it REALLY pisses me off when you say this is the worst field of teams in history. I mean, WTF? Just because all the #1 and #2 seeds got blasted by teams playing better team basketball, it's the worst ever? Yes, the championship game wasn't exciting. I KNEW it wasn't going to be before it even got started. Why? Connecticut had more size (thus able to switch off on Butler's screens and cause their gameplan to be tough to execute) and Butler plays NASTY defense. It knew it was going to be a low scoring affair (of course, I didn't think they'd shoot as poorly as they did). But you can't tell me that it wasn't exciting to see VCU made the Final Four. That it wasn't intriguing to see Butler win somehow no matter how poorly they played against some pretty good teams.

I'm pretty sure that this year's tournament broke the record for most individual viewers ever for the tournament so I'd hardly say that it was a failure and the worst field in history.

Jesus, and you guys think I over-exaggerate things. :/

[psuexv]

Well Mors I'm going to disagree with you.... Sort of. The field itself was the worst field in history.... from a historical statistical perspective. This field had the most 10 loss teams ever. Now, is that because they were bad teams or because of the parity that is taking place in college basketball today. I would like to say the latter. I think college hoops is in a great position with how all teams are starting to come closer to level playing fields. Yes you will still have your traditional powers that will always be, but it truly has become a anyone can beat anyone on any given night.

So yes, historically worst field ever.... overall, one of the most exciting tournaments ever.

[JBHuskers]

Yeah it's definitely one of the worst fields ever....the one and done rule is taking the superstars out of the college game. If your team is full of seniors, that's not really a good thing anymore.

[CLW]

You know, it REALLY pisses me off when you say this is the worst field of teams in history. I mean, WTF? Just because all the #1 and #2 seeds got blasted by teams playing better team basketball, it's the worst ever? Yes, the championship game wasn't exciting. I KNEW it wasn't going to be before it even got started. Why? Connecticut had more size (thus able to switch off on Butler's screens and cause their gameplan to be tough to execute) and Butler plays NASTY defense. It knew it was going to be a low scoring affair (of course, I didn't think they'd shoot as poorly as they did). But you can't tell me that it wasn't exciting to see VCU made the Final Four. That it wasn't intriguing to see Butler win somehow no matter how poorly they played against some pretty good teams.

I'm pretty sure that this year's tournament broke the record for most individual viewers ever for the tournament so I'd hardly say that it was a failure and the worst field in history.

Jesus, and you guys think I over-exaggerate things. :/


Well Mors I'm going to disagree with you.... Sort of. The field itself was the worst field in history.... from a historical statistical perspective. This field had the most 10 loss teams ever. Now, is that because they were bad teams or because of the parity that is taking place in college basketball today. I would like to say the latter. I think college hoops is in a great position with how all teams are starting to come closer to level playing fields. Yes you will still have your traditional powers that will always be, but it truly has become a anyone can beat anyone on any given night.

So yes, historically worst field ever.... overall, one of the most exciting tournaments ever.


Yeah it's definitely one of the worst fields ever....the one and done rule is taking the superstars out of the college game. If your team is full of seniors, that's not really a good thing anymore.


Mors appears to not see the distinction between "worst field of teams ever" and "exciting". The two are NOT one in the same.

Crappy teams can provide "excitement" with a ton of upsets; close games; buzzer beaters; etc... Just b/c a tourny has a ton of that does NOT mean the field of teams are "good"/"great" college basketball teams from a historical perspective.

I could go on all day listing past Champions (and other teams that didn't win a title but made the Final 4) that would absolutely DESTROY this year's field.

Examples) 1968 UCLA; 1976 Indiana; 1982 UNC; 1992 Duke; 1996 Kentucky.

Jay Bilas gave tons of FACTS re: this argument. More 14+ loss AT-LARGE teams in this year's field that the past 25 COMBINED. Most or tied for most losses combined in this year's final 4. Etc...

Today's best teams are no where near as good as they were in the past. Moreover, today's 2nd tier clubs are no where near as good as 2nd tier clubs where in the past. This has allowed for the VCU; Butler and George Mason's of the college basketball world the opportunity to go on "magical" runs if they get "hot" and play "out of their minds".

Does that = "more excitement". Perhaps. One could argue that this year's tourny was one of the most "exciting" tournys ever.

However, my point was/is that the teams today are (1) less talented and (2) play worse basketball than the teams of the past. I really don't think that is up to much debate.

EDIT: BTW assuming everything goes pretty much as expected with early NBA draft decisions. Next years field could be every bit as bad if not worse than this year's field.

[JBHuskers]

Another point is VCU was one of the if not THE last team to be selected for the tourney.

[CLW]

Another point is VCU was one of the if not THE last team to be selected for the tourney.

And didn't deserve to be the last (one of the last) at-large team selected. However, that is another argument previously had in this thread.

[cdj]

"George Mason AD Tom O'Connor tells Wash Post that Jim Larranaga called him this morning to say he's taking Miami job." (http://wapo.st/hH52Rb)

Very surprising. When he didn't leave shortly after their Final Four run, I thought he'd stay there for life.