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Thread: Fundamental Question: What's really the difference b/w play styles?

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  1. #21
    Varsity Dr Death's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffHCross View Post

    I clearly have a problem with my playbook being focused. I have almost as many formations as you do plays!
    There's only one thing that a guy cannot have too much of, and since I believe this board has only gentlemen posting, I rather doubt I need to spell out what that one thing is... But w/ playbooks... make it easier on yourself Jeff. Pick a few formations and and try to keep it around 80-120 plays. If you think that sounds boring, consider Leach w/ his minimalistic approach and the fact that the R&S originally had only 8 plays!

    EIGHT!!! EA is half way to where the R&S was in 1975!!!

  2. #22
    Speaking of # of plays, I started with 287 plays this year and I've slowly been widdling it down - right now I am sitting at 160 but most of those are all the same concepts, of those 160 I probably only use 80. If we had the ability to tag routes other than the limited (but decent) set of hot routes I'd probably have a lot less plays.

  3. #23
    Booster JeffHCross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Death View Post
    If you think that sounds boring, consider Leach w/ his minimalistic approach and the fact that the R&S originally had only 8 plays!
    It's not that it's boring ... hell, I wish I could minimize my playbook that much (my original offensive design for 13 would have had ~50 plays), but I just find myself unable to commit to an offensive scheme like that. I've had too many occasions where my opponent stops what I'm trying to do, and I need a counter (or a counter-counter) punch for that eventuality.
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  4. #24
    Let's take a look at what you need in a playbook....

    Passing Game:

    You need plays that fit the different situations you will face: 3rd and Long, 3rd and Med, 3rd and Short, 3rd and Extra Long, 1st and 10, Go for It, Goal Line, Red Zone, Last 3 and stall, In those situations you will need plays that attack Cover 0, 1, 2, 3, 2 Man, 3 Sky, 3 Cloud, 4 and prevent. Make a grid with the situations down the left hand side and the coverage's along the top, then start filling things in, I'd say keep it to three or under in each category. Some plays will probably fit in more than one category.

    Once your done with that go start a playbook and choose only those plays in the formations that have the most of them.

    Running Game:

    I'm running from the spread this year so I like to build in running plays where I already have a constraint play in my passing game, anything more than that is overkill. Throw in play-action off your top running plays and screens.

    You've now built a complete offense.

  5. #25
    Booster JeffHCross's Avatar
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    Hush, you. We talked about this last weekend. Stop trying to be logical!
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneback View Post
    Let's take a look at what you need in a playbook....

    Passing Game:

    You need plays that fit the different situations you will face: 3rd and Long, 3rd and Med, 3rd and Short, 3rd and Extra Long, 1st and 10, Go for It, Goal Line, Red Zone, Last 3 and stall, In those situations you will need plays that attack Cover 0, 1, 2, 3, 2 Man, 3 Sky, 3 Cloud, 4 and prevent. Make a grid with the situations down the left hand side and the coverage's along the top, then start filling things in, I'd say keep it to three or under in each category. Some plays will probably fit in more than one category.

    Once your done with that go start a playbook and choose only those plays in the formations that have the most of them.

    Running Game:

    I'm running from the spread this year so I like to build in running plays where I already have a constraint play in my passing game, anything more than that is overkill. Throw in play-action off your top running plays and screens.

    You've now built a complete offense.
    This sounds amazing! I need to start a spreadsheet with this idea.

    It seems like now, the way I play is...just silly compared to this idea of having a "complete game plan". I guess I win, probably b/c of luck...it seems like when I play my buddy I can mix it up, using the Air Raid one time, the WCO the next, the Spread the next time. But the problem seems like I feel like I'm forcing my will on his defense. I pick Stick for example from the Air Raid. I run it no matter what he calls on Defense. I make my reads and throw to the open WR and move on. It seems like I do alright until my WRs drop the ball or I get sacked. But it doesn't seem to matter what defense he comes out in. If I see a mis-match pre-snap I will of course hot route and go for the throat, but other than that I just run the plays as called.

    The other reason I do this is, I'm not sure if you could say there is a logical way to the order in which he picks his defense. I know he blitzes a lot and if he doesn't blitz he likes to play Man. What I'm saying is, how do you use your "complete package" when the defense, for the lack of a nicer way of putting it, seems to call their plays at "random"?

    I can see this complete plan would work if the defense had a history or tendencies in it's play-calling. How do you implement the complete plan if there aren't really tendencies? I hope this ? makes sense.

    Thanks!

  7. #27
    To quote Gregory House, "Everybody Lies"...oh wait, Everyone has Tendencies - you just listed your buddies. In the end there are several ways to combat users where you haven't learned their tendencies, remember those plays that fit in multiple categories, start off using those, this will give you a cover 2 beater to one side and a Cover 3 beater to the other for example. Another way to do it is to setup your playbook in such a way that you can utilize your formation audibles to take advantage of whatever defense they come out in.

    Once you get a flow going they will be forced to adjust to what your doing, your job now is to know what to call that "Go For It" play when they have started adjusting to your bread and butter.

    My advice is to find a play or two that you enjoy or are really good at: zone read and bubble screen. This is a great combination of plays as bubble is a great constraint play for zone read...if the defense has less defenders than blockers run the zone read, once they start to cheat another defender inside throw the bubble, then at some point in the game they will be forced to call something to cover both, but they'll give you something deep when they do...now is the time to go for it!

    Of course this is all generalities as most of the people reading this thread are in my OD and I'm not going to give away my game plan, but I hope you understand where I'm going with it, if not I can elaborate some more.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneback View Post
    To quote Gregory House, "Everybody Lies"...oh wait, Everyone has Tendencies - you just listed your buddies. In the end there are several ways to combat users where you haven't learned their tendencies, remember those plays that fit in multiple categories, start off using those, this will give you a cover 2 beater to one side and a Cover 3 beater to the other for example. Another way to do it is to setup your playbook in such a way that you can utilize your formation audibles to take advantage of whatever defense they come out in.

    Once you get a flow going they will be forced to adjust to what your doing, your job now is to know what to call that "Go For It" play when they have started adjusting to your bread and butter.

    My advice is to find a play or two that you enjoy or are really good at: zone read and bubble screen. This is a great combination of plays as bubble is a great constraint play for zone read...if the defense has less defenders than blockers run the zone read, once they start to cheat another defender inside throw the bubble, then at some point in the game they will be forced to call something to cover both, but they'll give you something deep when they do...now is the time to go for it!

    Of course this is all generalities as most of the people reading this thread are in my OD and I'm not going to give away my game plan, but I hope you understand where I'm going with it, if not I can elaborate some more.

    Makes very good sense. Thank you sir. I'm glad I'm not playing you LOL I think I'd be lucky to get a 1st down....

    I want to use the WCO so I'm going to start with the spreadsheet you mentioned. My problem is picking a PB, I'm not whooped on making one so I'm trying to decide on San Diego St vs USC's. I guess like you said I could make my own and then I would have less plays to pick from and only those plays that I know how to run efficiently.

  9. #29
    Booster JeffHCross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Death View Post
    make it easier on yourself Jeff. Pick a few formations and and try to keep it around 80-120 plays.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneback View Post
    Let's take a look at what you need in a playbook....
    If it makes you guys feel any better:
    A) I got my ass handed to me in the first half, and didn't even break 100 yards
    B) I only scored 7 points in the first half
    C) I had to get a last second FG to beat the CPU
    D) I probably spent 2+ hours on this playbook, and didn't end up using 90% of it (though part of the problem there is that I tried I-Form in the first half, it didn't work at all, and for the rest of the game I was playing from behind)



    Quote Originally Posted by gigemaggs99 View Post
    But the problem seems like I feel like I'm forcing my will on his defense. I pick Stick for example from the Air Raid. I run it no matter what he calls on Defense. I make my reads and throw to the open WR and move on.
    FWIW, that's how I normally play, and I've been pretty successful with it (including several victories against one Mr. "Oneback"). It can work for you if you're pretty good at mixing it up, and if you know your playbook really well.
    Last edited by JeffHCross; 08-03-2012 at 11:07 PM.
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  10. #30
    Ok, Oneback...I need your help. I haven't made the spread-sheet yet and that will probably answer some of my questions.

    I went in and created a custom PB. I used the USC as the base. I deleted every single play until I was down to 1, it wouldn't let me get to 0 but once I started adding more it let me delete that remaining 1.

    In the Coaching the Multiple West Coast Offense by Ron Jenkins book it has a play-call sheet layed out. It basically has your spread-sheet idea just in an organized manner. So I went through and added the formations it shows, and I "tried" to add the plays. The problem is not all the plays match up exactly as they call them or describe them in the book. I could make them but it would require some massive practice and being able to do hot-routes in my sleep. So I made do with what EA has.

    Then I went and added running plays, PA, Screens....MY PROBLEM is I see other plays in there and I'm OH YEAH I like that one...for example, this play-call sheet only has 1 run play from the DALLAS formation which I found was an ACE SPREAD. This run play is the 30 HB DRAW, so I added the Draw from Ace Spread. I also like the counter, and the dive...etc.. etc... well I did this in the other formations and before I knew it I have 344 plays. Instead of listing them all here I think it would be easier to create a playbook on NCAA Playbooks 2012, then link it here and perhaps you can go over it and tell me what I should cut out so I don't have so many plays.

    I like the idea of having a smaller playbook so I don't have to sort through so much trying to find that one play I really need in this situation, but I also fight the thought of, well it would be nice to have that little wrinkle just in-case I want to bust it out, i.e. hb pass, or flea flicker. I know I don't run them but 1-2 times per game but not having them there means I will run them 0 times.

    As far as formations, I find that I hardly ever use Goal line, would you suggest removing it all together and if I need those tough yards I should use something like I-Form Normal w/ the JUMBO package sub?

    Thanks again for your help.

  11. #31
    Booster JeffHCross's Avatar
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    GigEm, I can't give you much advice, except Re: Goalline. If you truly don't use it, don't keep it. But it is good to have something equivalent that you already use. Either Jumbo with I-Form Normal, if you already plan to have I-Form Normal. Or my personal preference is either I-Form Tight or Strong Twins Over. If you're going to be using either of those formations already, they can both work as solid Goalline replacements.
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  12. #32
    Ok here is the playbook I have so far. I must be off by one, the website says I have 349 plays and PS3 says I have 348. Either way I'm going to make the spread sheet and TRY to shrink it.

    http://www.playbooks2012.com/browseCustom.php?pb=2684

  13. #33
    Booster JeffHCross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gigemaggs99 View Post
    Ok here is the playbook I have so far. I must be off by one, the website says I have 349 plays and PS3 says I have 348.
    Shotgun Spread has two HB Draws.
    Twitter: @3YardsandACloud

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneback View Post
    Speaking of # of plays, I started with 287 plays this year and I've slowly been widdling it down - right now I am sitting at 160 but most of those are all the same concepts, of those 160 I probably only use 80. If we had the ability to tag routes other than the limited (but decent) set of hot routes I'd probably have a lot less plays.


    And this is my offensive approach. I run the same concepts but out of as many formations possible.

  15. #35
    Freshman PDuncanOSU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Death View Post
    I have two basic formations: 5-Wide w/ Trips Right or 5-Wide w/ Trips Left. And out of those two formations I have a plethora of plays I use. My current playbook - given the awesome title of: 5-Wide - has 90 plays in it, and some of those I may only run once a game. In real life when I've coached it before I always kept the playbook at around 32-40 plays. And it drives people nuts because there is no "tell." Two formations and they never know what's coming other than it's a pass.
    I've kind of taken the opposite approach with my playbook. I try to run only a small handfull of plays out of many different personell sets and formations. My idea was to make it look complicated to the defense, constantly changing personell and formations, but keeping it simple for me.

    My current playbook has around 25 formations out of Pistol and Shotgun including everything from Pistol - Jumbo (3 TE, 1 WR, 1 HB) to Shotgun - 5 Wide. My playbook total shows around 300 plays, but it's really only around 15 concepts (HB inside run, HB Counter, HB outside run, QB Wrap, Read Option, Speed Option, PA Rollout, WR Screen, Bubble Screen, Stick, Mesh, H/Z/X/Y Cross, Smash, Drive, & Verts).

  16. #36
    I'm not saying that I enjoy Manziel's inability to make all his reads in our new offense, but it does seem like you could make a case that we run something similar to a Wildcat formation on every down. It seems like he looks for 1 receiver, if covered he takes off running. Is this really that much different than a pass option out of a wildcat formation?

    All joking aside, I hope he learns to make more reads and learns to slide. He's going to get hammered one of these times, not to mention learn better ball security he has that thing hanging out there just waiting for it to be slapped away.

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