Multiple West Coast Offense?

[JeffHCross]

Yep. I've read that article more than once. Doesn't help me though

I blame the fact that I have to worry about going up against schematic geniuses like Oneback.

[gigemaggs99]

I might be (MIGHT BE being the key) getting the hang of this offense. Short quick passing, working the TE over, putting in multiple TEs with sub packages and then bushing big runs. It worked well tonight.

passing: 22-30, 238yards 4 TDs, 1 int
rushing: 19 attempts, 108 yards, 2 TDs.
Red Zone 5-5 all TDs
Time of poss (5 min quarters) 14:36
the kicker....3rd down conversion 10-11 (90%)

It's really fun to come out in something like Twins weak, bust a HUGE run and then a few plays later come back to it, opponent guesses run commit left thinking the run is coming again and I throw a quick slant to a WIDE OPEN WR.

[JeffHCross]

Yep, Gus, you're definitely getting the hang of it. Setting up your opponent into over committing is exactly the beauty of offenses like this.

[gigemaggs99]

Question about a playbook:

I was watching some ESPNU yesterday and they were showing the Alabama vs South Carolina game from 2010. SC upset bama but I was really liking the Bama offense. They kept talking about how it's a slow grind it out offense and it takes what the defense gives....would they be considered WCO style? I'm kinda thinking no b/c they seem to be a run heavy or power run team...but is that b/c they have a great O-line? When they go pass the ball it seems like quick short passes similar to the WCO passes. I understand bama has a great defense and I guess that is what Sabin is known for but their offense looked very balanced.

[JeffHCross]

Bama's isn't a true WCO, but the theory behind taking what the defense gives is very WCO-like. But, being more realistic, taking what the defense gives is a very traditional offensive philosophy, not limited to just the WCO.

Bama is, through and through, a one-back offense. They use power running principles within a One Back Spread scheme.



On another note, Gus, it must have been another thread where you and I were discussing play # overkill in our Custom Books. I didn't intentionally follow Irish's post earlier in this thread, but the end result is along the lines of what he advocated. Last night I played an OD game against Escobar, and I called 95% of the game from a single formation. If you were able to find a formation like that, that you were willing to call the entire game in, that could go a long way toward reducing your playbook #s.

My current plan is basically to run 3 different playbooks, each 60-70 plays, that represent three different offensive philosophies that I love. Then combine those three into a single master book that would allow me to switch on demand between the concepts. I don't know if it will work, but that's the plan.

[gigemaggs99]

Bama's isn't a true WCO, but the theory behind taking what the defense gives is very WCO-like. But, being more realistic, taking what the defense gives is a very traditional offensive philosophy, not limited to just the WCO.

Bama is, through and through, a one-back offense. They use power running principles within a One Back Spread scheme.



On another note, Gus, it must have been another thread where you and I were discussing play # overkill in our Custom Books. I didn't intentionally follow Irish's post earlier in this thread, but the end result is along the lines of what he advocated. Last night I played an OD game against Escobar, and I called 95% of the game from a single formation. If you were able to find a formation like that, that you were willing to call the entire game in, that could go a long way toward reducing your playbook #s.

My current plan is basically to run 3 different playbooks, each 60-70 plays, that represent three different offensive philosophies that I love. Then combine those three into a single master book that would allow me to switch on demand between the concepts. I don't know if it will work, but that's the plan.

Freaking amazing! This is what I'm currently working on. I like the WCO (USC, San Diego St, Stanford PB's) and I like some of the spread run so I'm trying to limit my CPB. This is wild how this is what I'm working on while I came here to read up some more.

Good luck sir!

[gigemaggs99]

Not sure if this is really MWCO but here goes....

Has anyone else had an issue with their QB getting really bad towards the end of the game?

I'm running the WCO my own CPB with USC as a base PB or I just use the USC PB. I will be having a great game, using Kent St in my OD. We are playing on AA default sliders so my QB should be set at 50 as are all the other settings. The only thing we have changed is the game speed is set to slow.

Well my QB will be doing great the entire game, 29/35 or something to that effect. Then when I'm down or need it he starts overthrowing wide open WRs like a freak show. I've even put in the backup and he overthrows them too.

I came out in Ace Slot, it was vs cover 2 so I hotroute the slot WR to a streak, the FS covers the outside WR so my slot WR is WIDE OPEN I press the triangle like normal, just like I always do and the QB will overthrow him by a good 30 yards. I can user switch to the WR but I can never sprint enough to even have a chance at catching the ball.

2nd down, I go Strong I PA Power O, the Z WR is running a streak, the CPU is in Cover 3 and this time the Z WR is WIDE OPEN running downfield, again the QB overthrows him by a good 30+ yards.

3rd down, I go Ace Slot-Flex again the CPU comes out in cover 2, I hotroute the Slot WR on a streak, again he's WIDE OPEN and the QB unleashes a 50+ yard bomb that no one has a chance at catching.

4th I punt....

Does anyone else have this problem? It only seems to happen in the 4th quarter when I'm behind, well sort of the ONLY other time I see it, is prior to the end of the 2nd quarter. I stopped the CPU and had the ball with :02 remaining I figured why not...so I did the Strong I PA Power O and again the Z WR is wide open, the QB overthrows him by so much it's not even funny.

One thing I will say since picking up Madden 10 and in Madden 12, the QB's don't have this "all of a sudden can't throw issue"...maybe it's just part of the game...who knows. It's just annoying to know how to attack the Defense and call the proper plays yet 3 straight plays the QB decides he's trying to win a Longest throw competition.

[JeffHCross]

I've seen it. EJ Manuel on FSU has the problem frequently, at least with me at the controls he did. However, I haven't seen it effect both the starter and the backup ... when I put my backup in, he didn't have the problem at all.

My personal favorite so far is, more than once, I've called Y-Trips Strong Flood. Thrown the out route, and ended up completing it to the streak. More than once.

[gigemaggs99]

As much as I like the CPB feature, for some reason I want to use a teams' pb, maybe I have a mental block or something. So I've been going back and forth between USC, San Diego St, and Stanford's PBs. I've also been looking into Syracuse, they have a nice one.

I don't really want a Pro style WCO style PB that has the wildcat. This is the only thing that turns me away from USC's, it seems like they could have more Ace or something good besides the Wildcat. On top of that they have 2 different wildcat formations. Maybe they have those formations b/c in real life they have them so they can promise more players, more STAR athletes that they will get to play.

Standford is nice b/c of the Fullhouse formation.

Syracuse is nice b/c they don't have much SG and I'm more of an old-school WCO guy. Looking into Bill Walsh's stuff he didn't seem to have much SG if any at all. When I was a kid I watched the 49ers, Joe Montana was the man when I was a kid, I don't remember them going into the SG much until Steve Young came along.

San Diego St is nice, but I'm not sure why they include the FAR formation but no NEAR. It seems like most teams that have a Strong I also have a Weak I. They seem to go hand in hand. I do like the Split Pro though, it seems like a good formation to feel out the defense as it's pretty balanced.

Another thing I like in NCAA 13 vs playing Madden 10 and 12 (which I picked up just the other day) is you can pump fake to a certain WR in NCAA 13 to pull the defense "away". I like this feature a lot, hopefully Madden 13 will allow you to pump to a certain WR. Madden 10 and 12 it's just a basic fake throw move but it doesn't aim a any one certain WR or side of the field.

Another thing I'm trying to figure out with the WCO, I've heard and read that in order for it to work well you need a good HB. I'm not sure if you need a HB with SPEED or one with POWER. Seems like Roger Craig was both, but then again most NFL HBs are monsters so that doesn't really tell you much in terms of applying it to the NCAA video game.

It seems like Stanford had Toby Gerhart a few seasons back, I'm not sure if he was a speed guy or a power guy...then again he's in the NFL now so he's probably a little of both. I just know with my Kent St squad I have more of a power back and he is either on or off. If he can't break tackles I can't get the running game going.

[JeffHCross]

Gus, if you want to feel like you're using a team's PB, what I've been doing is using the playbooks2012.com site to take formations (and plays selected within those formations) from multiple playbooks. Like I'll have the Ace-Slot plays from one playbook, and then the Shotgun Normal Y-Slot plays from another playbook. It's allowed me to create a unique playbook that fits my playstyle without having to pick and choose my own plays and take the time involved.

[PeteyKirch]

I run the Rutgers PB slightly modified, and it seems to offer a good balance as a Pro/WCO option.

What I have in it includes;

ACE
Big
Bunch Base (Perhaps my favorite formation)
Slot Flex (PA TE Screen)
Tackle Over (Power O and PA HB Wheel ALL DAY)
Twin TE
Y Trips

I FORM
Normal
Slot
Tight
Twin TE

PISTOL
4WR Trips (Mainly as package for Chas Dodd who was a Spread/Pistol QB in HS)

SHOTGUN
4WR TRIO STR
Normal HB WK
Normal Y Flex
Split Y Flex (LOVE THE 2 HBs in the backfield)
Trio Open

STRONG I
Normal
Twins Flex
Y Flex

WEAK I
Normal
Twins Flex

WILDCAT
Fight Song (Package to get Jeremy Deering in space)

[gigemaggs99]

Cool ideas.

Jeff, I like the idea of mixing and matching it, plus like you said it won't take all night to get it put together.

Petey, thanks for sharing the PB. I played against Rutgers and they got me looking at their PB so I'll take a look at what you've put together there.

For me, I really enjoy under-center plays. I once read about the air raid that if you're afraid to go 100% SG then you're afraid to go true air raid, I know that's just one opinion but I feel the same with regards to the WCO. Bill Walsh didn't have any SG if I'm not mistaken.

[gigemaggs99]

?, since Bill O'Brien came from the Patriots is the NCAA 13 pb similar to last years Madden 12 Patriot's PB? I looked on the NCAAPlaybook site and last year's Penn St. PB was different than this years. I was just wondering if this years was more like the Pats of Madden '12.

I really enjoyed the style of the Penn State offense yesterday. Could have done with less turnovers, seems like Belton needs to learn how to hold the ball closer to his body. The way he was carrying it yesterday it looked like every play could have been a fumble (seems like in the past they have called that "carrying it like a loaf of bread"). Otherwise I liked the offense!

I would like to find a good breakdown of the play they ran to the TE, the one they compared to the Patriots, EDIT: maybe the PA Power O from a few of the different formations could be the ones.

[JeffHCross]

There's definitely some unique formations in the Penn State playbook, and I think it does have some similarities to the Patriots Madden 12 playbook. Or, at least, to what the Patriots actually ran in 2011.

[gigemaggs99]

Here is a nice free read, which is very similar to the book, Coaching the Multiple West Coast Offense

http://www.centuryinter.net/midway/c...tcoast/wco.pdf

I really like the section that defines defensive terms, as I've always wondered what is the difference between things like "Even Front vs Odd Front".

[gigemaggs99]

I've been on the practice field again and have had pretty good success with this in my offline dynasty. I've been using Florida's, Stanford, and San Diego St's PB since they have either the X Sluggo or Double Sluggo plays in their books.

I work the slants and quick slants to death along w/ the Curl Flats until the defense starts pressing and playing my WRs tight. Then I call one of these sluggo plays and it's wild, along w/ the Pump FAKE the WR will be WIDE open on the deep out/fade pattern.

Once you hit a few deep ones I come out in the same formations and run draws, then it's BOOM huge gains up the gut.

I've also cleaned up my overthrow issue I was seeing later in the games when I thought my QB was on steroids. Once again it was MY USER ERROR. I was getting excited and thinking I needed to lead the WR a little so I would slightly press UP on the left stick causing the horrible deep overthrow. Once I started just pressing the Wide OPEN WRs icon the QB hits him in stride usually for a walk in TD.

[gigemaggs99]

Also have been working on something else with motion and ball/field position. Sometimes I end up shooting myself in the foot when I have the ball the left hash for example and I've called a passing play where the X receiver is running an out route. He'll make his break but as I fire the ball to him it's usually incomplete b/c it's to close to the sidelines. To fix this I've been trying to throw to the wide side of the field only but this takes away 1/3 to 1/2 of my receivers.

Tonight on the practice field I tried motioning the X WR to the right, basically he'll move in to give the formation a "tight or close" look. This gives him enough room to now make his cut to the outside and when I throw the pass to him he still has time to get 1 or both feet in.

The play I was using was out of the San Diego St PB Strong I Normal Angle. Motion the X to the right to give him room to make his cut on his 3 route.

[gigemaggs99]

I finally found a way to make the NEAR formation this year in NCAA 13.

Out of the Stanford PB, Power I Strong X Slant. Motion the HB out of the backfield. Then you can hot-route your receivers all over the place to attack the defense. This of course is only a passing play and you can't run out of it, but it does give an old familiar look to the WCO.

Another nice little wrinkle is the Pistol Full House, motion the HB to either slot and hot route him to any pass pattern. It gives a nice SG Split/pistol look. Running the HB off tackle a few times with this motion added, then running PA X Post again with this HB motion to the slots opens up the field nicely giving the defense headaches.

If you motion the deep back to the right-slot out of this Pistol Full House and run the triple option it then turns into a Slot triple option.

[Escobar]

Another nice little wrinkle is the Pistol Full House, motion the HB to either slot and hot route him to any pass pattern. It gives a nice SG Split/pistol look. Running the HB off tackle a few times with this motion added, then running PA X Post again with this HB motion to the slots opens up the field nicely giving the defense headaches.

If you motion the deep back to the right-slot out of this Pistol Full House and run the triple option it then turns into a Slot triple option.

[CeeGee]

Great article. I wish my Browns would hire that guy, because, the guys they have now clearly don't understand how to develop an Offense