What do you think is the main issue with this Gen NCAA?

[psuexv]

So obviously there is a lot of debate over NCAA and the features and gameplay. I constantly see on these boards people referring to last gen games and how they wish they would bring this back and that back. So my question to the masses is.... Why do you think the issue is with the new Gen NCAA games?

Do they not know how to code properly on the new Gen systems?

Are they trying to be to innovative with movement systems and AI?

Are they ignoring the features that the public wants from last Gen games?

[psuexv]

For me I'm not sure. I loved playing last gen games and noticed immediately when I moved to this Gen with '09 that it felt completely different. I'm not a programmer so I don't really have any knowledge on the subject, but my gut feeling is they don't quite understand the new Gen programming yet.

[illwill10]

I am not sure. In last gen they got to the point where they couldnt improve it anymore, so they improved features alot. It could be alot of reasons.
-Online wasnt a big priority in last gen.
- Offline was main priority
-Graphics and Audio didnt take up as much space last gen as it does now.
-Having to appeal to Casual Crowd
-Innovation instead of constant improvement.

I would love to see them add alot of last gen features. I like the idea of innovation. But, I like it when they improve on what they have instead of creating new features all the time. Look at NBA 2k12, besides Legends, it mainly improved on what it had and it was great. You dont have to add new features all the time to have a great game.

[ram29jackson]

the problem is they are trying to be too next gen and sending out an incomplete product

[illwill10]

I wonder how NCAA 13 will do with the loss of Harvey. I dont think it will be a difference. Wonder what the priority will be next year. I think they should continue improving on Coaching Carousel, Improve In-Presentation(Audio and commentary), and tweaks to other modes.

[Pig Bomb]

the main issue has three parts

1] EA have been unable or unwilling to re-write the code for the game....so what they have is a huge pile of code that they keep heaping new code on top of...it's a mess and the reason why so many "new" things don't work or end up breaking something else. End result, a buggy, and busted game with many features that don't work at all, or as intended.

2] EA have decided the way to fix issue number 1 is to use the patch process which has emerged in this gen. This allows EA to rush the game to market every year before they are able to fix all the busted crap the huge pile of code [with heaps of new code on top of it] is creating. End result, we get to buy a game every year that doesn't function properly and have to hope that during the following months they are able to come up with fixes that actually work. The game feels like a beta at launch.

3] Due to the growth of casual gaming [phones, internet, and consoles like the Wii] EA has decided the NCAA series should appeal to wide audience. Making it less "sim" and more "arcade" in many cases. However, the main problem arising from this approach is that the development team has to come up with "new" features just for the sake of having something new to put on the box every year to sell games. I say "new" in quotes becuse many "new" features are actually old features that have finally been brought back and re-introduced.
End result, most of the guys that visit fan sites like this one are "hardcore" sports gamers and silly new features that appeal to casual gamers don't do anything for us....other than break the game.

[bdoughty]

3] Due to the growth of casual gaming [phones, internet, and consoles like the Wii] EA has decided the NCAA series should appeal to wide audience.

What? If EA was so determined to appeal to a wide audience, where is the Wii version? They had NCAA on the Wii for one year and it never came back. One big reason was the Wii version was an attempt to make a fluff NCAA game (All-Play with Mascot on the cover). The game did not sell, because like most sports games on every Nintendo system since the N64, unless Mario makes an appearance it is not going to sell. Exceptions being games where Wiimote were a factor (Pro Evo Soccer and Tiger Woods). Was there an NCAA 12 Mobile? I did not see one but I did see a Madden 12 Mobile app. So I think it is pretty safe to say they are not trying very hard to appeal toward those markets. They have the PS3 and the 360. It is not like they have abandoned hardcore sports gamers, which is a really small part of the market to begin with. I honestly think when you break down the people who buy NCAA yearly it would go something like this.

(A) Hardcore sports gamers (nitpickus game to deathus or guy who spend too much time finding perfect slider set)
(B) Fans of NCAA Football in real life who enjoy video game (I play games to have fun and relax - i.e. The majority)
(C) Those who buy it just for the achievement points (insaneo in da membrano for drinking to much drano)

The main issue with both NCAA and Madden is they tried to reinvent the wheel when they should have done what 2ksports did. Take last gen game and upgrade the visuals, enhance game yearly in each area, except for online play.

[Rudy]

I think the main difference between past gen and this gen is they have a new team of developers that worked on the next gen stuff. I think there was a real separation between what the guys in the past wanted the game to feel and play like vs. the current team. Some things are better, some are worse, some are the same. An example of something worse is how there is almost no player weight and moment in NCAA 12. I loved the way the players felt and moved on the PS2 far more than how they move now. Any player can move in any direction on the PS3 with virtually no penalty. This is not a fault of the hardware. This is how the game was designed and how the developers like it imo. It could easily be changed but they don't want to.

Most of the complaints various people have are simply design decisions. After 5-6 years of next gen football this game is what it is and it's not going to change much unless the developers change. This is how they want the game to play and feel. Some people like it. Some don't. But anyone expecting EA to really change anything for next year is expecting too much. All we will see in each iteration from now on is subtle tweaks and improvements. EA almost never re-writes an engine in the middle of a console life. They only do it at the launch of a new console and then you live with that engine (love it or hate it) until the next console.

Personally EA screwed up this generation of football by not porting over the old code and then just improving things from there. They re-wrote a lot of stuff and broke a lot of stuff. It took 5 years to get the cpu QB to scramble when it worked just fine on the PS2. It took at least 3 years to get the cpu QBs to not throw a ton of picks all the time. We're still missing a ton of features from the old games. Madden on the PS2 had in game saves! We had discipline in dynasty mode. They did add stuff like online dynasty but I don't think it was a good idea to re-write from scratch. I prefer the port and improve philosophy where we as consumers never have to take a step back and wait years for some things to catch back up. Whenever the XBox Next or PS4 comes out, there is no reason to upgrade for an EA football game if they take the same approach as this gen. You'll have to wait years before major kinks are worked out.

[keyser soze]

The main problem I see is that I have been unable to play in Dynasty mode for going on 2 months now... being that is the only way that I play the game, and the only game I play on my xbox it completely and totally sucks. Thinking about that, I should probably call up and cancel my gold membership.... LOL

[jaymo76]

I think the main difference between past gen and this gen is they have a new team of developers that worked on the next gen stuff. I think there was a real separation between what the guys in the past wanted the game to feel and play like vs. the current team. Some things are better, some are worse, some are the same. An example of something worse is how there is almost no player weight and moment in NCAA 12. I loved the way the players felt and moved on the PS2 far more than how they move now. Any player can move in any direction on the PS3 with virtually no penalty. This is not a fault of the hardware. This is how the game was designed and how the developers like it imo. It could easily be changed but they don't want to.

Most of the complaints various people have are simply design decisions. After 5-6 years of next gen football this game is what it is and it's not going to change much unless the developers change. This is how they want the game to play and feel. Some people like it. Some don't. But anyone expecting EA to really change anything for next year is expecting too much. All we will see in each iteration from now on is subtle tweaks and improvements. EA almost never re-writes an engine in the middle of a console life. They only do it at the launch of a new console and then you live with that engine (love it or hate it) until the next console.

Personally EA screwed up this generation of football by not porting over the old code and then just improving things from there. They re-wrote a lot of stuff and broke a lot of stuff. It took 5 years to get the cpu QB to scramble when it worked just fine on the PS2. It took at least 3 years to get the cpu QBs to not throw a ton of picks all the time. We're still missing a ton of features from the old games. Madden on the PS2 had in game saves! We had discipline in dynasty mode. They did add stuff like online dynasty but I don't think it was a good idea to re-write from scratch. I prefer the port and improve philosophy where we as consumers never have to take a step back and wait years for some things to catch back up. Whenever the XBox Next or PS4 comes out, there is no reason to upgrade for an EA football game if they take the same approach as this gen. You'll have to wait years before major kinks are worked out.

That highlighted section is a perfect summary. All I have wanted is an updated version of 06. Give me all the features of last gen with the new CC and the updated graphics and I would be a happy camper. I so miss things like:

matchup stick
homefield advatange (screen shaking, etc)
FCS and FBS
Elite 11
Discipline
Stat overlays
Heisman ceremony
cpu logic, etc etc etc.

Now to be fair, I do expect to once again see MAJOR changes to NCAA 13 but how the game plays, I expect will stay pretty much identical until the next revolution in consoles.

[JeffHCross]

Personally, I think NCAA Football 07 and Madden 06 are to blame for Tiburon's overall problems with this generation. I believe that those two titles left them backed into a corner in terms of some of the features and limitations of the game engine. There were a few quotes here and there that I've seen over the years that reinforced that belief, like the frame rate concerns that caused Alabama's numbers to not be displayed.

Very few sports titles were released for the 360 in the first year or so that it was released ... and I think there's a reason for that. And even fewer of those titles, in my opinion, have recovered from being initially rushed to market. The annual cycle of the sports genre, combined with the resources required for Next Gen development, allow for very little recovery from a mistake.

On the other side of the coin, I also think we are a tad too nostalgic when it comes to "last gen". I don't think those games hold up as well as we thought at the time. For myself, personally, NCAA 2004 was the peak of the last generation. Some of the problems I personally have with the current title started with the NCAA 05 / 06 set and have just continued.

Personally EA screwed up this generation of football by not porting over the old code and then just improving things from there. They re-wrote a lot of stuff and broke a lot of stuff.

I, personally, think Tiburon ported over everything they could. Or at least a large segment of it. There is a lot of basic, foundational code that must be re-written when moving to a new console. I think the CPU logic, largely, was ported, whereas the graphics and interfaces, largely, were not.

[JeffHCross]

Kotaku put up an article today that talks with NBA 2k12's director of development. Among other things, they talk about the fact that 2k12 had their entire online codebase written from scratch this year -- for 2k11, the code was largely still left over from the Dreamcast days. It's an interesting read, and I imagine that EA's code path for their sports games is largely similar to 2k's.

[SmoothPancakes]

Kotaku put up an article today that talks with NBA 2k12's director of development. Among other things, they talk about the fact that 2k12 had their entire online codebase written from scratch this year -- for 2k11, the code was largely still left over from the Dreamcast days. It's an interesting read, and I imagine that EA's code path for their sports games is largely similar to 2k's.

Only problem is, 2K said that same thing last year. That the code before was left over from the Dreamcast days and they had completely redone their online codebase for 2K11 and thus why 2K11's online sucked.

[JeffHCross]

Only problem is, 2K said that same thing last year. That the code before was left over from the Dreamcast days and they had completely redone their online codebase for 2K11 and thus why 2K11's online sucked.

... that's pretty bad.

But my point was really more about how porting code can damage this generation's games. Especially features like Online, which have exploded since the last generation.

[SmoothPancakes]

... that's pretty bad.

But my point was really more about how porting code can damage this generation's games. Especially features like Online, which have exploded since the last generation.

Oh I know that was your point and I completely agree. Just wanted to mention that about 2K saying the same thing last year, so don't get too excited or hold your breath too long for major changes regarding their Online in 2K13. I'm going to be taking the "not believe until I see it approach after the last two years with their statements about online.

[bdoughty]

Oh I know that was your point and I completely agree. Just wanted to mention that about 2K saying the same thing last year, so don't get too excited or hold your breath too long for major changes regarding their Online in 2K13. I'm going to be taking the "not believe until I see it approach after the last two years with their statements about online.

Yeah 2k might want to wait till they can actually allow me and Smooth to get in a game that lasts longer than 5 possessions before discussing how they changed the coding.

Crazy thing is we can play an exhibition game with no problem but we can't play our Online Association game.

[SmoothPancakes]

Yeah 2k might want to wait till they can actually allow me and Smooth to get in a game that lasts longer than 5 possessions before discussing how they changed the coding.

Crazy thing is we can play an exhibition game with no problem but we can't play our Online Association game.

Yeah, I'm still absolutely puzzled by that. We can play exhibition games online now problem at all, but then when it comes to trying to play a game on Online Association, we're lucky to get more than 30 or 60 seconds into the game. 2K needs to just scrap the current and completely start it over brand new from scratch. Maybe then things will actually properly work.

[morsdraconis]

Yeah, I'm still absolutely puzzled by that. We can play exhibition games online now problem at all, but then when it comes to trying to play a game on Online Association, we're lucky to get more than 30 or 60 seconds into the game. 2K needs to just scrap the current and completely start it over brand new from scratch. Maybe then things will actually properly work.

That has been their servers since the beginning of this generation. I don't know what it is with their online portions of games, but they're terrible. It's like there is some serious disconnect in their code that prevents their online portion of games from working correctly.

I doubt they would ever considering scrapping their code now though. Especially since EA stupidly decided to do that with theirs and now doesn't even have a ball in the court this year.

[shorne33]

What? If EA was so determined to appeal to a wide audience, where is the Wii version? They had NCAA on the Wii for one year and it never came back. One big reason was the Wii version was an attempt to make a fluff NCAA game (All-Play with Mascot on the cover). The game did not sell, because like most sports games on every Nintendo system since the N64, unless Mario makes an appearance it is not going to sell. Exceptions being games where Wiimote were a factor (Pro Evo Soccer and Tiger Woods). Was there an NCAA 12 Mobile? I did not see one but I did see a Madden 12 Mobile app. So I think it is pretty safe to say they are not trying very hard to appeal toward those markets. They have the PS3 and the 360. It is not like they have abandoned hardcore sports gamers, which is a really small part of the market to begin with. I honestly think when you break down the people who buy NCAA yearly it would go something like this.

(A) Hardcore sports gamers (nitpickus game to deathus or guy who spend too much time finding perfect slider set)
(B) Fans of NCAA Football in real life who enjoy video game (I play games to have fun and relax - i.e. The majority)
(C) Those who buy it just for the achievement points (insaneo in da membrano for drinking to much drano)

The main issue with both NCAA and Madden is they tried to reinvent the wheel when they should have done what 2ksports did. Take last gen game and upgrade the visuals, enhance game yearly in each area, except for online play.

THIS

All they needed to do for both Madden and NCAA was to upgrade the graphics they already had from last gen and improve the gameplay yearly. They would be in the same position as the 2K series. 2K made this mistake initially, too, with their first PS3/360 game but quickly realized it was better to "port" over the engine/graphics from last gen and build on it. If EA somehow brings back last-gen's engine but just upgrade the graphics, they can make a comeback but they won't...wishful thinking.