Recruiting for the 3-4 Defense

[Treadstone6700]

Hey guys, just wondering what you guys do for recruiting for the 3-4 defense. The Canes will be using a "multiple" type defense but it's pretty obvious they are going to be a base 3-4.

In NCAA Football what positions do you need to be pulling in on a yearly basis and what are the most important positions?

Wondering what types of numbers I should have at each position too.

I used it a little bit in 11 and always just focused on recruiting MLB's and making sure I had enough solid ones on the roster.

Just looking for any tips or input from you guys on specifics for what I should I be recruiting to run a MEAN 3-4 defense.

PS - I will admit that part of this was inspired by playing in the 3-4 with Alabama in the demo today and seeing how great a 3-4 defense can be

[AustinWolv]

OLBs - huge and strong, good pass rush ability but also good coverage ability.....I'd give up a bit of run stop ability here to get a better coverage and pass rush ability for these guys.......try to also target guys that shed blocks well.....these guys should be about big, like in the 250-260lb range
DT - huge run stuffer, can get away with smaller numbers here
DE - I actually liked subbing out one of the DE for a smallish DT, and then using a solid pass rush DE at the other DE position. Look for digger than normal DEs here unless you stick in a DT.
MLB - your typical MLB will suffice in the 240lb range, needs good run stop ability and ability to shed blocks, coverage is a definite good thing, so target balanced guys IMO.

The numbers emphasis should be on your LBs in order to get a wider net to get the biggest, most versatile (run and pass coverage ability) LBs you can get. The DL can pretty much be huge run-stuffers and if they can rush the passer that is a big bonus.

[oweb26]

When I ran a 3-4 on 11 I always went for a true monster MLB just a pure run stopping monster go for one that's a coverage man, I always like my two olb to be quick as they will sometimes cover wr`s. I don't think you should get anyone balanced because all balanced means is kacking somewhere and depending on your opponent it will get exposed,unless the balanced guy is just a freak.

I always like pass rushing de but to me the biggest thing about the 3-4 is get alot of verstility at eepach position especially at the front 7. You have to be able to adjust to each offense and having a little bit of everythunt helps.

[AustinWolv]

Without meat at the DE, your LBs will get swallowed up also. Your LBs will be blitzing/rushing as much as they are covering, so they need to be versatile. Small guys on the outside will get eaten up, in theory. If the game interacts that way, always another story.

[oweb26]

U hit it square on the head in theory u are correct game wise not so much. Gamewise u want quick guys to beat lineman on the blitz.

[Treadstone6700]

So for NCAA I should recruit for speed all across the defense including the DT's and DE's?

[AustinWolv]

That's how NCAA has historically played in that speed trumps all other ratings. Now that they are supposedly putting emphasis on strength and trench interactions, I wouldn't bet the farm on speed being the dominant factor. Guess we'll see in the game, or get one of the early game-receiving guys to test some stuff out.....

[oweb26]

Yeah I wouldn't purely go for speed just have some speed available. I always liked blk sheeding,tackling and strength myself speed is a nice compliment to those guys.

[morsdraconis]

Speed, Block Shedding, Zone Coverage Skills, and Tackling for LBs

Strength, Block Shedding, and Finesse Moves for DEs

Strength, Block Shedding, and Power Moves for NT

That's been my setup since '10 when I switched to the 3-4 and it's been great for me. Obviously, NTs haven't been of much use for me because they seem to never be, but, I'm hoping that the NT position has more impact this year.

The real secret though is getting guys that have great play recognition when it comes to the LBs and secondary. That's when you see guys hitting the holes against a run even if you aren't blitzing them and playing better zone coverage even if their other attributes aren't as great.

[Treadstone6700]

Thanks for the input guys.

I guess it will be easier when I'm actually able to get the game and look at the ratings of Alabama's defenders. I absolutely love the way that defense plays in the demo.

In terms of #'s of guys that I should have on the roster, what is your input for that? Here is what I was thinking:

MLB: 4-6
OLB: 6-8
DE:4-6
DT:2-4

Thoughts?

[JeffHCross]

So for NCAA I should recruit for speed all across the defense including the DT's and DE's?

This won't work if you guys can't get off blocks. Looks for block shedding and Power Move/Finesse Move (don't need both, but need at least one). Otherwise you just end up with 4 LBs who are all blocked by the linemen. If you got really, really good speed, you might be able to trump that, but I think in the long run you'd be better off with skills over speed.

Pursuit is also really important for LBs, no matter the defensive alignment.

[ryby6969]

I would also add that your corners be good in Man Coverage with a good amount of man blitzes in the 3-4.

[oweb26]

This won't work if you guys can't get off blocks. Looks for block shedding and Power Move/Finesse Move (don't need both, but need at least one). Otherwise you just end up with 4 LBs who are all blocked by the linemen. If you got really, really good speed, you might be able to trump that, but I think in the long run you'd be better off with skills over speed.

Pursuit is also really important for LBs, no matter the defensive alignment.

I agree pursuit is a vital stat ( I cant believe I missed that one).

If I had to rank my stats:
1. Blk Shedding
2. Zone
3. Speed
4. Awareness (they will more than likely get this over time, so unless you need them to play immediately then its not a big factor)
5. Tackle ( Just slow the guy down and help will come is why I don't rank tackle higher)
6. Hit Power (If you can get 1 MLB and 1 OLB that can lay the lumber its really good)

2&3 are interchangeable, but depending on how the new zones play I put zone a little higher. If you happen to stumble across one with a decent catch that is also a huge plus.

Thanks for the input guys.

I guess it will be easier when I'm actually able to get the game and look at the ratings of Alabama's defenders. I absolutely love the way that defense plays in the demo.

In terms of #'s of guys that I should have on the roster, what is your input for that? Here is what I was thinking:

MLB: 4-6
OLB: 6-8
DE:4-6
DT:2-4

Thoughts?

I would go with 5 MLB, and 5 OLB , 4 is a good number of DE's, and I would get probably 3 NT's. NT's I have never found that perfect number, there have been season where I have had 2 and none got hurt there have been seasons where I have 5 and every last one got hurt. I would probably settle around 3 though. Naturally these numbers might change if you have some freshman and also some "projects" as I like to call it. I have had times where I literally had 12 OLB and 7 MLB at one time. OLB can move inside, MLB have a harder transition for some reason (bigger impact to ratings). Remember you will probably need 3 or so of each safety mostly because I always have one in red shirt and then one that is great at zone and one that is great at man.

Good Man Corners are vital also, you will run a crap ton of man coverage when you decide to really bring the heat on the oppenent and you will need people outside to cover.

[Treadstone6700]

Teambuilder being out allowed me to look at the Alabama defense to give myself a model to go off of. (Their defense is disgustingly young too BTW). Here is how they are set up #'s wise:

DE: 6
NT: 4
OLB: 7
MLB: 4
CB: 6
FS: 3
SS: 4

I worked up a spreadsheet so I could run some numbers too as I wanted to get what the profile of an Alabama starter looked like, this is what I found:

Defensive Line (Average of starting DE's & NT)
Overall: 88
Speed: 75
Agility: 75
Acceleration: 92
Strength: 90
Awareness: 83
Tackle: 85
Hit Power: 84
Power Moves: 75
Finesse Moves: 76
Block Shedding: 83
Pursuit: 78
Play Recognition: 74
Man Coverage: 37
Zone Coverage: 45

Linebackers: Average of 2 starting OLB's and 2 starting MLB's
Overall: 92
Speed: 88
Agility: 83
Acceleration: 87
Strength: 84
Awareness: 89
Tackle: 92
Hit Power: 85
Power Moves: 76
Finesse Moves: 82
Block Shedding: 85
Pursuit: 87
Play Recognition: 84
Man Coverage: 62
Zone Coverage: 73

Secondary (Averages of Starting FS, SS, and 2 CB's)
Overall: 91
Speed: 91
Agility: 90
Acceleration: 94
Strength: 70
Awareness: 85
Tackle: 87
Hit Power: 76
Power Moves: 53
Finesse Moves: 59
Block Shedding: 74
Pursuit: 91
Play Recognition: 87
Man Coverage: 90
Zone Coverage: 90

I feel like those give me pretty good profiles of the types of players to look for in recruiting. Does anyone know the corresponding letter grades with the corresponding rating range? (i.e. B+ = 85-90).

Would also like input on what different skills are able to be "developed" -- improved through player progression. I feel like athleticism is pretty minimal in terms of development and that awareness is the most.

My goal is to establish a recruit profile so I can specifically target guys who are a B- or better in block shedding for a DL for example, that way I can know what guys I want to aggressively pursue and what guys I don't want to have even if their star rating looks sexy.

[JeffHCross]

I don't think anybody, even those of us that have the title, are going to be able to give you much insight on skills + progression for '12. I wasn't aware of this until recently, but one of the mods here reported that they've changed progression to fit more closely to a player's "type". I.e. a Power back will actually develop his Power-related skills. But what that means is that I don't think any of us will be able to predict what will happen with progression, because it sounds like it's been redone.

[Treadstone6700]

I don't think anybody, even those of us that have the title, are going to be able to give you much insight on skills + progression for '12. I wasn't aware of this until recently, but one of the mods here reported that they've changed progression to fit more closely to a player's "type". I.e. a Power back will actually develop his Power-related skills. But what that means is that I don't think any of us will be able to predict what will happen with progression, because it sounds like it's been redone.

Understandable, appreciate your input. Where did you see the mods talking about that b/c that sounds really cool actually and would be a welcome addition, would love more info if you have it

[baseballplyrmvp]

I don't think anybody, even those of us that have the title, are going to be able to give you much insight on skills + progression for '12. I wasn't aware of this until recently, but one of the mods here reported that they've changed progression to fit more closely to a player's "type". I.e. a Power back will actually develop his Power-related skills. But what that means is that I don't think any of us will be able to predict what will happen with progression, because it sounds like it's been redone.

if done correctly, this has the potential to be really good. it'd reward gamers a lot more for using players "correctly" instead of treating everyone the same. i like that.....but, it shouldnt limit our players from progressing in other ratings as well.

[oweb26]

Treadstone let me see if I can find an old excel sheet of my players and maybe you can get a feel of what I used as setup for my e-4 attributes. I did do alot of deleting of old NCAA stuff so I might not have anymore but let me check.

[Treadstone6700]

Treadstone let me see if I can find an old excel sheet of my players and maybe you can get a feel of what I used as setup for my e-4 attributes. I did do alot of deleting of old NCAA stuff so I might not have anymore but let me check.

I'd appreciate it! I worked up a pretty robust spreadsheet last night that compared the Alabama defensive players to the existing Miami roster if they ran a 3-4 or a 4-3. It was cool to see the data in charts and to see the differences.

Before rosters come out I'll probably sim some seasons to get a gauge of what star levels come in at and how they progress. Would like to work up a template of prospect profiles if you want to run a 3-4 like Bama's

[gschwendt]

Understandable, appreciate your input. Where did you see the mods talking about that b/c that sounds really cool actually and would be a welcome addition, would love more info if you have it

Just now seeing this discussion but I assume jeff is taking about something I mentioned not too long ago. Basically the player tendency will now drive progression so theoretically a pass blocker will get more boosts in pbk and pbs/pbf compared to a run blocker. I haven't done any extensive tests with it yet but it will be interesting to see how it works out.

All that is one of the reasons that you now see player tendency on the roster listing whereas years past it was mostly hidden outside of recruiting.