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Thread: NO CPU Scrambling QBs, No Peace ! Must have for NCAA 12

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  1. #1
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    Post NO CPU Scrambling QBs, No Peace ! Must have for NCAA 12

    <img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://c.gigcount.com/wildfire/IMP/CXNID=2000002.0NXC/bT*xJmx*PTEzMDU1NzI3MjIzMzYmcHQ9MTMwNTU3MjcyNjEyNy ZwPTk1MDcxJmQ9Jmc9MSZvPTIyMTY3Y2E3MWY3YzQ3YWFhNDMw/NWEyYjEwZjJmZjg4Jm9mPTA=.gif" /><a href="http://www.easports.com/media/play/image/75874808" target="_top" shape="rect"><img src="http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2011/ncaa11/20180619/662A0001_1_JPEG_SCREENSHOT_RkY.jpg" width="640" alt="NCAA Football 11 Photo" style="border: none" /></a><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://www.easports.com/" target="_top" shape="rect">EA Sports</a>: <a href="http://www.easports.com/media/play/image/75874808" target="_top" shape="rect">NCAA Football 11 Photo</a></div>

    Look at the above picture. In that picture you see CPU QB from Baylor, Griffin. With my roster he has 90 ball carrier vision, 90 agility, 85 awareness, 90 elusiveness, 88 speed, 96 acceleration.

    Sounds impressive right ? However in a full game with 8 minute quarters on all american, he was sacked 6 times, threw 6 interceptions. With 4 of those interceptions coming from the cpu trying to force the ball in double and triple coverage. He didn't attempt to scramble AT ALL. Not once.

    In this picture he side stepped 6 steps to the right. I blitzed the left side of his offensive line. You can clearly see because of this, HE HAS NOBODY IN FRONT OF HIM, got 1 defender about to hit him from behind with another about to do the same thing.

    Now let me tell you how long the QB held on to the ball. Number 96 is the RE, he got chopped block at the beginning of the play, got up off the ground and is now a few yards from nailing the QB.

    This is how long the CPU QB hold on to the ball in the NCAA series this whole generation. Instead of scrambling, they just stand there.

    Now let me tell you what happened next. The QB turns towards 96 the RE and tried to fire the ball back across the field to a WR that was double covered. However he got sacked in mid throwing motion.

    This kind of thing happens over and over in NCAA 11. QBs don't scramble when they have a clear wide open running lane. They don't try to use their speed or agility at all. Hell they don't even side step to the left, the only direction they ever side step is to the right and they will keep doing that until they either hit the sideline or get sacked.

    Now I asked Ben doing the developer chat last week if cpu QBs will scramble, he said they would in the appropriate situation. However doing that same developer when Ben played a quarter against the cpu, the cpu QB didn't scramble not one time. Instead they were still doing the same side step to the right a few feet then fire it into double coverage routine.

    Doing the Gamespot interview, when they were playing the cpu again for a quarter, the same thing happened. The cpu QB didnt scramble at all and did the same routine.

    When will they address this issue ??? Hopefully one day Mike Scrantlebury can be in one of these developer chats since he is the game play AI guy for NCAA and Madden.

    The theme of NCAA and Madden this year is presentation....Suppose to have the look and feel of being there and of watching it on tv. If that is the case, how can they NOT have CPU SCRAMBLING QBs ?????

    Roy Harvery said Friday he lets the game run in his office cpu vs cpu while he is testing stats. Maybe while Roy is doing that and checking stats, maybe he should be checking the QBs rushing stats and rushing attempts per a game along with the sacks per a game.

    Scrambling QBs is a HUGE part of football. What is the point of having tendancy description of Pocket QB, Balanced or Scrambler if it doesn't do anything or effect how the AI behaves on the field ?

    Their whole QB logic needs to be re-coded, tweaked or something. It has gotten to the point now I have to hold back on defense when I play dynasty against the cpu. Why ? Because I know the CPU QB is a sitting duck. If I blitz it is a sack 90% of the time and an interception the other 10% of the time because the QB don't ever run away, he either takes the sack or forces it in double or triple coverage.

    I haven't had to use a QB spy play or QB contain line adjustment in a NCAA or Madden football game since the 2006 version back on the PS2. This whole generation on the Xbox 360 starting with 2007, every year we keep getting from Ben and Russ we will address it next year.

    Next year comes and nothing, then we get we will address next year again.

    Now I find it hard to believe that you can put animals that run on the field and marching bands in the game, but you can't put QBs that scramble in the game ? Come on !!!!

    Really kind of surprised that out of all of the EA Game Changers that go to community day, have access to the developers, that tweet them back and forth on a daily basis, that NONE of them, NOT ONE of them EVER brought up the fact that none of the CPU QBs don't ever scramble in the game over the past 4 or 5 years ?

    One of them has to have noticed and brought it up or something. Don't tell me NONE of them ever play against the cpu and play online only.

    I just know I can't be the only that noticed it over the past 4 years and gets ticked off about it. CPU scrambling QBs is a huge part of the college football game experience.

    This needs to be addressed and made sure it actually happens in NCAA 12. There is no excuse.

    Why not just have a scramble slider ? I mean you guys have a break tackle slider in Madden, even a fumble slider. So what's wrong with a scramble slider ?

    Don't want a slider, then what about a scramble attribute ? The higher it is, the more likely that QB will take off and run.

    Or you can call it a pocket awareness attribute. QBs with a high rating in that would more likely see that the pocket is broke and that a blitzer or defensive lineman has gotten free, so therefore they take off running.

    When the day comes when NCAA series do get scrambling QBs, I hope they have them run in all directions. Not everybody rolls out to the right ALL THE TIME. Should be situational based. Depending on where the pressure is coming from, they run to the right, run to the left, run up the middle, juke left, juke right, spin to the left, spin to the right.

    They also need to run with a purpose. They need to always be trying to fight for extra yards and get away from the defender.


    Quote:





    The gang tackling is really a nice addition. On one play I remember the HB getting stacked up by 5-6 guys but he kept his feet churning until the ref blew his whistle for forward progress and the defenders just pushed him away without anyone ever falling to the ground.

    http://www.traditionfootball.com/ind...otball-review/



    I read that and thought hmmmmm, I never seen that happened in this game before. What game was he playing ? Must have been the alpha build or something, sure wasn't retail build.

    I never seen a gang tackle that ended like that. Hell never seen a 6 man gang tackle. The most I seen was 3 and the results always ended the same. Everybody either fell backwards or fell forward. But I never seen everybody legs still running and they just end in a stalemate still standing and the whistle blows.

    It would have been cool to see, I guess they took that out before the retail version.

    Anyway this post is long enough. No cpu QB scramble, no peace

    Must have for NCAA 12

  2. #2
    All-American Paakaa10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotmadskillzson View Post
    Really kind of surprised that out of all of the EA Game Changers that go to community day, have access to the developers, that tweet them back and forth on a daily basis, that NONE of them, NOT ONE of them EVER brought up the fact that none of the CPU QBs don't ever scramble in the game over the past 4 or 5 years ?

    One of them has to have noticed and brought it up or something. Don't tell me NONE of them ever play against the cpu and play online only.
    I don't know what information you're working from, but I'd say just about everyone who attended Community Events this year is aware that scrambling QBs in NCAA Football 11 and past games were not taking yards on the ground as much as they should be. It's been mentioned at events so far for NCAA Football 12, and it will be mentioned again this week if it isn't "right" for those of us going down.

    It's been in my notes, and I'll be using--and playing against CPU--teams that have mobile QBs to see if progress has been made. The code of the game at other events so far has been too early to make any "sure thing" statements about where it's at for this year.

    EDIT -- Side note: your videos or images for the post aren't working. I would love to see the reference materials you're working from so that we can use them to help illustrate points if need be.
    Last edited by Paakaa10; 05-16-2011 at 03:53 PM.

  3. #3
    All-American Deuce's Avatar
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    Is that something that can be tuned? ...or is it much more complicated than that?

  4. #4
    All-American Paakaa10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Is that something that can be tuned? ...or is it much more complicated than that?
    My programming knowledge--at least when it comes to designing a football game with 22 players on field at a single time--is not great. That said, I would assume that if the logic for a scrambling quarterback making the right decisions was "easy," then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    It's been about a month since any of us Community Event guys have seen the game in action; at this point in development, that's enough time for serious things to change. A lot of guys from last week's Madden NFL 12 Community Event mentioned that quarterback scrambling was improved quite a bit over last year's game. Those of us going to Orlando this week for NCAA Football 12 hope to be able to say the same things.

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    Hall of Fame ram29jackson's Avatar
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    I just see code , not a picture

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    That's the image in question. It's RGIII from Baylor with nothing but open green field in front of him refusing to run.

  7. #7
    Heisman Rudy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paakaa10 View Post
    I don't know what information you're working from, but I'd say just about everyone who attended Community Events this year is aware that scrambling QBs in NCAA Football 11 and past games were not taking yards on the ground as much as they should be. It's been mentioned at events so far for NCAA Football 12, and it will be mentioned again this week if it isn't "right" for those of us going down.
    Everyone has agreed that is was an issue but the only comment I got from the last community day was that mobile QB logic wasn't a priority. The scramble logic was simply bad last year like it's been every year on the PS3. The odd time I would see a scramble the cpu QB would sometimes throw it away just as they got to the line of scrimmage despite having a wide open running lane. I want a LOT more scrambles from a fast QB and I want the dual threat QB to actually be a threat. I have never feared a mobile QB in NCAA football on the PS3 - not even close. I won't hold my breath on this improving though. They had Tebow on the cover last year (not a typical scrambling QB like Vincy Young or Shoelace) but the cpu spread option was still neutered.

    The mobile QB is one of the biggest differences between the college and pro game. That's why I'm bugging the community day guys to play against a cpu Oregon team and see how well it shares the ball between the QB and RB and how dangerous the QB is in terms of running the option. The play action passing game is a HUGE part of that offense as well. Hopefully play action is a lot better as well.

  8. #8
    Freshman griffin2608's Avatar
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    I have been waiting to be burned by a dual threat qb in NCAA. It really is a huge part of NCAA now and really needs to be treated as such. I wonder if it has anything to do with awareness?

  9. #9
    All-American Paakaa10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
    Everyone has agreed that is was an issue but the only comment I got from the last community day was that mobile QB logic wasn't a priority. The scramble logic was simply bad last year like it's been every year on the PS3. ... The mobile QB is one of the biggest differences between the college and pro game. That's why I'm bugging the community day guys to play against a cpu Oregon team and see how well it shares the ball between the QB and RB and how dangerous the QB is in terms of running the option. The play action passing game is a HUGE part of that offense as well. Hopefully play action is a lot better as well.
    Okay... but the original poster here was making the allegation that none of the EA SPORTS Game Changers or Community Event guys had EVER noticed that scrambling quarterbacks were problematic in years past or brought it up to the members of the development team, which is just completely untrue.

    "Scramble Logic" is not a "bullet point" feature in the same sense that "Improved Zone Defense" or other facets of NCAA Football 12 are from what we've experienced so far. Does that mean that nothing is being done on it this year? No. Does that mean that it's going to be fixed completely to perfection this year? The answer here is also probably no.

    We've brought it up to the developers; I'm hoping to see improvement with it this week. I already plan to play against a CPU Michigan team and a CPU Oregon team to see how those quarterbacks behave in the game. I agree--like everyone else--that the danger of an effective CPU dual-threat quarterback has not been realized in the game yet and I hope that my participation in the Community Events can help to make that happen in the future. I just don't know personally what the timetable will be; I'd love for it to be great this year.

    Time will tell. I just can assure you that the point has been made and the developers want to make the game as great as it can be. You can read that as a "cop-out" statement or not, but the gameplay has already taken big strides from last year based on what we've played to this point.

    I think we've found something to add to the NCAA Wishlist Tournament depending on how it ends up being for the final release.

  10. #10
    Heisman Rudy's Avatar
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    I think the frustrating thing is that it shouldn't gave to be pointed out or added for a wishlist tourney for next year. It's extremely obvious that it needs significant work. Why hasn't it been a back of the box item to this point is what some of us are wondering?

  11. #11
    All-American Paakaa10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
    I think the frustrating thing is that it shouldn't gave to be pointed out or added for a wishlist tourney for next year. It's extremely obvious that it needs significant work. Why hasn't it been a back of the box item to this point is what some of us are wondering?
    Personally? I don't know. This is my first year of "inside" involvement, and my first times visiting the studio while the game could still be changed. This is something better answered by people who have been in this position before.

    If you want a sense that the developers actually do acknowledge this part of the game, gameplay guy Larry Richart specifically asked me--seeing that I was playing against a CPU Michigan last month at the event--if I thought that QB #16 was too overpowered in the game. Due to the early version of the build, however, there were things that kept me from being able to fully answer that query. The hope is that the game will have overcome these development-related quirks so that I can get a better sense of what we can reasonably expect from the retail release.

  12. #12
    Heisman Rudy's Avatar
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    If they get this area right, the game could be epic. Push for Shoelace to be over powered!

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    Booster JeffHCross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
    Why hasn't it been a back of the box item to this point is what some of us are wondering?
    Because, quite honestly, "the QB Scrambles now!" doesn't work as a back-of-the-box feature. And, also quite honestly, the people asking for it, while vocal, are in the relative minority.

    It's being worked on and I saw QB scrambles in January and April that I haven't seen in NCAA 11. And I can't tell from the original post what he's quoting, which part is his opinion, or what -- so it's difficult to really discuss.

    I can tell you it's better, but it's also something I'm going to look at in-depth this week.
    Twitter: @3YardsandACloud

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    Heisman Rudy's Avatar
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    Sounds good. I do know the op has been frustrated with this for awhile though OS.

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    Booster JeffHCross's Avatar
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    Gotmadskillzson, I saw your link to your OS post on Twitter. Thanks for that, it made a lot more sense out of your post here.

    Regarding the 6-man gang tackles that Tradition Football's review mentioned ... they are there, in NCAA 11, in a manner of speaking. What I think he was referring to was that sometimes you'll have a huge number of guys around the ball carrier, many of them latched on, but then the ball carrier will break out and keep running. It's not a "gang tackle", per se, but I know what he's talking about. I just saw one the other night against PSUSnoop, actually, though it was only 3 or 4 guys around the ball carrier in that case.

    As we've said earlier in the thread, your question about "NONE of them, NOT ONE of them EVER brought up the fact that none of the CPU QBs don't ever scramble in the game" has been brought up. It has been discussed, and in my opinion it has been improved for NCAA 12. I do plan on looking more into it (in fact, looking at rush stats like you mentioned).
    Last edited by JeffHCross; 05-16-2011 at 11:05 PM.
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    Administrator JBHuskers's Avatar
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    Definitely show the guys that screenshot from OS when you're down there this week, Jeff.


  17. #17
    Booster JeffHCross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBHuskers View Post
    Definitely show the guys that screenshot from OS when you're down there this week, Jeff.
    I think I'll bring it up to Scant and then run far away so he doesn't SMASH me.
    Twitter: @3YardsandACloud

  18. #18
    Administrator JBHuskers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffHCross View Post
    I think I'll bring it up to Scant and then run far away so he doesn't SMASH me.
    It'll do you some good

  19. #19
    Heisman Rudy's Avatar
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    Show him a couple of videos I still have saved from NCAA 11.



    This one is a Wildcat play but where the heck was LaMichael James going? As a RB he couldn't have had a bigger hole to run into the endzone and he makes a beeline to the defender near the sideline.


  20. #20
    Heisman souljahbill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
    Show him a couple of videos I still have saved from NCAA 11.



    This one is a Wildcat play but where the heck was LaMichael James going? As a RB he couldn't have had a bigger hole to run into the endzone and he makes a beeline to the defender near the sideline.

    That's 14 points right there.

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