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Thread: Some Changes to the Quarterback in NCAA Football 11

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  1. #21
    Administrator cdj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by champ195797 View Post
    If this is over used by your oppent do you think the draw play would be a great counter
    I would think so. The blocking improvements have helped make the draw play a legit weapon as is, and if the DL is going out wide in contain, the draw should be very dangerous. I had success at the CE running it versus pass defenses like Dime.

  2. #22
    Varsity Solidice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdj View Post
    I would think so. The blocking improvements have helped make the draw play a legit weapon as is, and if the DL is going out wide in contain, the draw should be very dangerous. I had success at the CE running it versus pass defenses like Dime.
    I really hope so. I can remember in some OD games where I played with TTU and my opponents would come out in a 3-2-6 dime and still stuff the run(no run comment or anything). the draw play was mostly worthless for me.

  3. #23
    In 09 and in 10 I have noticed the draw was either boom or bust. I would either lose 2 or gain 20. The only time I used was against a person using the superman DE pass rush.

  4. #24
    Booster JeffHCross's Avatar
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    The Blocking AI blog, which is discussed over here, left little doubt that the Draw would be much improved this year. The combination of improved AI blocking and Locomotion / Acceleration changes should give a real opportunity to draw plays on 3rd down.

  5. #25
    All-American Jayrah's Avatar
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    I am really excited about the additions with the qb. And yet again, some small defensive updates are going to make a BIG difference in how the game is played this year. I think in the past games really got up and down. This will be a more grind it out game. Still explosive, but not an arcade scoring festival like years past. Key defensive updates are the defenders coming up quicker, the qb contain, gang tackle, true ratings usage for explosive players (especially at the point of attack), and no suction blocking. An inadvertent update will actually tie right in to this qb throwing out of sacks. Because of the lowering in turnovers that this will create, the "other" defense will get to see the field as more 3 and outs/punts will occur. Last year if you picked it, you had a great chance of a runback. This year more incompletions will mean more possessions on both sides of the ball. This is just overall a great decision to work on that.

    CD guys I do have a question on turnovers. When the gang tackles were talked about, someone mentioned fumbles were happening in more realistic spots. With the new trajectories and less accurate passes, in the past you have said there are more "misses" by less accurate qbs. From what you saw, were the int's happening in more realistic spots? Like say, obviously there aren't any or as many instant straight duds to the waiting DL, but did the qb ever throw over the head or behind his wr, right into a pleasantly surprised defender, especially while being hit? Also did the qb ever just really miss everybody, or was it always basically close? Last year there weren't enough passes that missed everything, and also not enough that truly floated the wrong direction to be picked off, in a realistic manner. IMO of course
    Last edited by Jayrah; 05-16-2010 at 05:28 AM.

  6. #26
    Heisman Rudy's Avatar
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    I'm going to have to check out all the new running plays. I never called a draw play in the past since they were so unsuccessful. I'm going to have to open my options up again and re-adjust to what the game can do now.

  7. #27
    Administrator cdj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayrah View Post
    CD guys I do have a question on turnovers. When the gang tackles were talked about, someone mentioned fumbles were happening in more realistic spots. With the new trajectories and less accurate passes, in the past you have said there are more "misses" by less accurate qbs. From what you saw, were the int's happening in more realistic spots? Like say, obviously there aren't any or as many instant straight duds to the waiting DL, but did the qb ever throw over the head or behind his wr, right into a pleasantly surprised defender, especially while being hit? Also did the qb ever just really miss everybody, or was it always basically close? Last year there weren't enough passes that missed everything, and also not enough that truly floated the wrong direction to be picked off, in a realistic manner. IMO of course
    The 'ducks' and bad passes were still being tuned, but IIRC they improved between the first and last day of the event as they pushed through updated builds. I don't think I saw a single duck picked off or at least none by a d-lineman. My INTs were mainly User Picks, if I recall correctly. There were passes that just missed and I don't recall any defender warps and some were 'off' passes ranging from deep passes to passes in the flats to the RB. The "correct" % of these is always going to be up to individual opinion, however.

  8. #28
    Does the QB contain assignment work the same as it did last year. I.e. does the contain player essentially stand outside the tackle box and only attack the QB when he breaks the pocket? Will contain players rush the passer at all if the passer is in the pocket?

  9. #29
    Hall of Fame steelerfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdj View Post
    The 'ducks' and bad passes were still being tuned, but IIRC they improved between the first and last day of the event as they pushed through updated builds. I don't think I saw a single duck picked off or at least none by a d-lineman. My INTs were mainly User Picks, if I recall correctly. There were passes that just missed and I don't recall any defender warps and some were 'off' passes ranging from deep passes to passes in the flats to the RB. The "correct" % of these is always going to be up to individual opinion, however.
    This is music to my ears. If this plays out half as well as it sounds, I will be very pleased.

  10. #30
    All-American Jayrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhombic21 View Post
    Does the QB contain assignment work the same as it did last year. I.e. does the contain player essentially stand outside the tackle box and only attack the QB when he breaks the pocket? Will contain players rush the passer at all if the passer is in the pocket?
    And more directly, have you guys ever got an explanation on DE's standing and waiting? My thought over on Utopia was that it is a matter of philosophy, where the DE's are supposed to engage and hold the edge, but not really rush up the field too far and allow the qb up in the pocket. But they couldn't come up with a hand fighting, upright animation to accomplish this without the DE just getting buried, so they just left him alone to sit and wait, that way he could at least be an extra defender on the edge.

  11. #31
    All-American Jayrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelerfan View Post
    This is music to my ears. If this plays out half as well as it sounds, I will be very pleased.
    Yes totally agree.

    Another thought up for discussion: I really wish Larry would have expanded on prototypes in the game, and how they fixed/tuned them to act like their prototype would. He left us hangin in the wind on that. But anyway, now that there are a few (it seems) redefined prototypical qb styles, how will the cpu: A) Recruit to their system B) Use players that don't "fit" in their system via formation subs (speaking of which, CD guys, any idea whether the cpu utilized form subs while you were there?) C) play towards the system that they are in as a player?

    Will a dual threat qb be utilized in a pro style offense? Will the cpu qb go ahead and attack due to their prototype ratings or will they simply do what the system asks of them? Will it be a mix (hopefully)? Also holds true for a transfer qb, will he go to a system that fits him if he finds he's in a bad system for him or won't play, or will he just go anywhere, because he will play the way he plays and the style of offense is inconsequential?

    Also, as a true drop back qb will have serious trouble in a mobile offensive system, I'm hoping that qbs are labeled this year with what style(s) they would fit into, or that different offensive style teams have requirements on certain ratings, so that teams that don't incorporate these players in their recruiting wars when they don't fit. Even if a player has that team as a top school.

  12. #32
    Heisman Rudy's Avatar
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    I echo Jayrah's concern above. Just look at Florida. They will have a really big change this year going from Tebow to Brantley who should not be running very much. I hope the cpu play calling adjusts depending on the QB's abilities (if a starter goes down and a slow footed backup comes in, they should run the option less).

  13. #33
    Freshman BlindRedBaron's Avatar
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    While I do worry that the "contain" will be so obvious the QB will just sit in the pocket with all the time in the world, I think this is a great addition.

    Contrary to Rhombic's concern about them removing "rush out", I'm quite pleased this is being removed. This is perhaps the most over-used and abused feature in NCAA 10. Having less than a second to release the ball because your opponent is cheesing the entire game "rushing out" with fast defensive ends was ridiculous.

    I think this addition/removal will do great things for the game. Whether it will need to be tuned the year after or in a patch is yet to be seen, but I can't wait for the demo in June.

  14. #34
    Rush out isn't why you had a second to pass. It was jump the snap, and it actually happens when they jump the snap and are in contain, not rush out. Unless you're talking about manually controlling a defensive lineman, and in that case the defensive line hot routes don't matter at all.

  15. #35
    Freshman BlindRedBaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhombic21 View Post
    Rush out isn't why you had a second to pass. It was jump the snap, and it actually happens when they jump the snap and are in contain, not rush out. Unless you're talking about manually controlling a defensive lineman, and in that case the defensive line hot routes don't matter at all.
    Perhaps. I think it might have been a combination of all three, with the two factors you mentioned definitely being a factor. I just know that there are players online who do it every single play (along with controlling a lineman) and it is unrealistically effective at getting to the QB while he's in the pocket.

    I understand its situational, strategic importance and I may indeed miss having it, but I guess I feel as though EA understands the ramifications of removing this defensive hot route. I'm assuming that pass rushing will still be effective and everything will be balanced. While this assumption may be misplaced if we look at years past, from everything I've seen thus far, I feel as though this will be a completely different game with improvements on no level we've seen thus far on the generation of systems.

    Call me an optimist, but regardless, we'll all have to wait and see until the demo, and better yet, the game come out.

  16. #36
    I'm not really sure where you're coming with to assume that rush out is even a part of the problem. It's not overly effective except for jumping the snap, and if they're manually controlling a defensive linemen, then the problems you're experiencing are almost surely not related to their defensive line audibles anyways.

    What we're going to end up with is a situation where you essentially have to choose between giving the QB all day to throw versus not having any containment, unless you decide to bring a massive blitz.

  17. #37
    Administrator JBHuskers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdj View Post
    The 'ducks' and bad passes were still being tuned, but IIRC they improved between the first and last day of the event as they pushed through updated builds. I don't think I saw a single duck picked off or at least none by a d-lineman. My INTs were mainly User Picks, if I recall correctly. There were passes that just missed and I don't recall any defender warps and some were 'off' passes ranging from deep passes to passes in the flats to the RB. The "correct" % of these is always going to be up to individual opinion, however.
    Trying to catch up after being gone for the fight, the ducks were more than just the simple flop that they would do within five feet of the QB (even though there were a few of those). There were some passes that actually made it into the secondary that were quackers, and you had to have that "oh crap" moment while the ball is in the air the entire time.

    I want to think I saw a DL get a pick, but they may have been in a quarters coverage when they did. Nothing weird like an insta-pick from passing under pressure.

  18. #38
    All-American Jayrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhombic21 View Post
    I'm not really sure where you're coming with to assume that rush out is even a part of the problem. It's not overly effective except for jumping the snap, and if they're manually controlling a defensive linemen, then the problems you're experiencing are almost surely not related to their defensive line audibles anyways.

    What we're going to end up with is a situation where you essentially have to choose between giving the QB all day to throw versus not having any containment, unless you decide to bring a massive blitz.
    I finally see what you're talking about. And, yeah if that contain isn't fixed that could become a serious issue for pressure purposes. However now with the more defined O-Guard movements, maybe spreading the line or bringing occasional OLB or CB blitzes will give you an opportunity to keep the ends wide, and not have to use contain all the time. Also I contend that the addition of 'aggressive' gameplanning for the qb contain, and faster recognition in general, will help if you need extra support on the edge. They did quite a few little things to adapt to the issue here. I don't think it'll be as big a problem as you think, but like I said, it could become one.

  19. #39
    Heisman AustinWolv's Avatar
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    Plus also let's remember that your ends might not need to be set to contain all the time, since they supposedly fixed the LB and DB awareness to come up and fill once the QB took off to run..........just saying there might be multiple pieces, not just a single position adjustment, that play here.

  20. #40
    My point though is that they have essentially removed this out rush feature for no good reason. We could ALREADY use the contain assignments, and realistically, they could have very easily designed a system that both kept the rush out assignment and simultaneously made it easier to set DEs to contain. For example, if they moved it to the face buttons, so that square set the left DE to contain and circle set the right DE to contain (once you brought up the DL assignment options), then it would have achieved both goals without any loss of functionality.

    Also, the stuff with zones and spies being more reactive to QB scrambles is untested, and unless there have been some serious attempts to tweak the effects of low QB accuracy, then they could potentially just cause new problems because the QB scrambles, somebody comes up to stop him, and then a zone is left wide open. Further, if you're in a man coverage defense, like Cover 2 Man, then there aren't even any players in zone or spy to be of assistance.

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