Can someone tell me if there is an advantage or disadvantage to having a WR line up on the line or off of it? For example is there any reason to run one of these shotgun formations over the other?
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Can someone tell me if there is an advantage or disadvantage to having a WR line up on the line or off of it? For example is there any reason to run one of these shotgun formations over the other?
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Teams like to get guys off the LOS so they are harder to jam. Thus, in those formations, ignoring just moving personnel around, you could get the slots free or the outside guys a better chance of being free. Using the formation packages in the playcall screen though, it might let you do the same thing, I don't recall what all the packages are......but if your outside guy is your best receiver, you could move into the slot to get a favorable matchup on a LB or safety or just get him some room to help avoid the jam if a CB matches up on him.
^^^^^ That. ^^^^^
Also, regarding Spread / Double Flex / 4 WR, the game (inexplicably) has some plays that are available in some of those formations, but not others. The H/X/Y/Z Shallow Cross series, for example, is not available in a complete set in any of those formations, yet pieces of it are in each.
I just checked.....there are formation packages in the shotgun playbook usually called WR Strong or Strong Slots or something like that which takes one of your outside receivers and swaps them with a slot receiver. Since the game generally puts your best receivers on the outside, that is a quick way to get them off the LOS or matched up in the slot.
In terms of the formations you linked above, the Shotgun Spread is going to take your #3 and #4 receiver on the depth chart and put them in the slot off the LOS with your #1 and #2 receivers on the outside.
The Shotgun Double Flex formation will just take the #1 and #2 receiver, both of which are outside receivers according to the game, and flex them off the LOS, while moving the slots up to the LOS.
Shotgun 4WR pulls one of your two best WR off the LOS on the outside while keeping one of your 3rd or 4th receivers flexed in the slot position. I haven't looked at the plays in the formation but one benefit might be a slot bubble screen to one side while the other side always has one of your best receivers off the LOS.
I've found this extremely annoying while trying to create a custom playbook. There are, I think, 6 or 7 similar shotgun formations like this (4 WR, 2 on each side) and 2 more in the pistol. I don't understand why there wouldn't be the same pass plays in all of these formations.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffHCross
Agreed. I can understand some cases, where the HB has to be on a specific side for the route combination ... but the Shallow Cross series, as far as I know, should be able to be run from any 2x2 formation, regardless of alignment or personnel.
The Pistol, IMO, is the most egregious. Pistol Spread is 2x2 with the HB lined directly behind. Yet it only has two of the Shallow Cross series. Presumably this is because you can easily flip the play for the other two. But the game makes flipping a play so cumbersome that I refuse to do it on a semi-regular basis. So I'd rather see all four plays, any day, than save space with just two.
This, among other things, is something I'd like to see changed for custom playbooks in NCAA 14. I'm having the same issue with the multiple 3x1 Pistol and Shotgun formations as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffHCross
I'm not sure why, but some ODs will call it cheese. However in real life, the Houston Texans for example they move Andre Johnson all over the place. He'll basically be moved to be the "go to" (orange route) on almost every play. They look to him first then the usually check downs.
I've been doing this in my offline dynasty running the WCO (USC PB) I use the formation personnel packages like the others that have posted here have suggested and it's amazing how you can really get your main WR going. Once he's hot and red and pulsing, it's wild how the CPU will start double teaming him and then the other WRs are WIDE OPEN.
As far as the "flex" or "normal" SG formations go, I usually use them to cause "rubs" or switches at the LOS. It seems like the "flexed" WR will cause issues like a pick in basketball and leave the underneath WR open or give him a free release across the middle on plays like shallow crosses, slants, levels, etc..
Lots of ODs will call it cheese. In real life, when the Texans play the Jets, if they so choose, the Jets can move Darrelle Revis around to follow Andre Johnson. On some plays he'll be inside, on some out. Now the Jets may not choose to do that, but they have the option.
NCAA doesn't have that. If I move my 6'6 receiver into the slot, you can't counter. Sure, you can call a package on the next play and put your best CB in the slot, but once I think you're doing that I'm going to move my 6'6 guy back outside. This, like many OD rules, exist because of the lack of counters.
hell, USC did it all the time last year with wr's robert woods and marqise lee. both spent time lined up on the outside, in the slot, and in the backfield.
another reason why we need the defensive matchups brought over, and that we need to be able to customize formation packages
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffHCross
Ah, I see, we'll maybe it's called cheese b/c the defense then has the short end of the stick so I guess I understand. I figured from an offensive standpoint it seemed completely realistic.
Correct. Defense can't counter on the fly or adjust real-time as Jeff mentioned above.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigemaggs99
Does this hold true in the NCAA '13 game as well, or is this just in the real world? I haven't really paid attention, but I haven't noticed guys lined up off the LOS being any more difficult to jam as those on the LOS.Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinWolv
I've always thought the slots get off the line pretty easily in NCAA. Most of the jams that have thrown off my timing have been on the outside.......and/or I've checked jams there quickly to see if my receiver has beaten it quickly to get an easy strike down the sideline.
Because of the shitty camera angle/width in NCAA, I honestly haven't studied how well having the outside guys flexed off the LOS has worked in avoiding jams. If I get around to it, I'll post back here.
I think the slots not getting jammed is mainly due to them not getting pressed. By default, only the outside corners will press in man. If the defense uses press coverage (Y -> down on LS) then only DBs will press (not LBs in a base or nickle D covering a slot guy). So, if they come out in a nickle against your 4 wide, 1 of the slot guys can't be pressed unless the defensive guy manually moves the LB into press position.Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinWolv
I just ran some tests in practice and as long as I had someone pressing the receiver (so nickle vs. 3 wide, dime vs. 4 wide and using the press coverage adjustment) the jam was equally effective whether it was on an outside receiver or a slot receiver and whether the receiver was on the LOS or back off of it (I tested with both slot guys off the LOS and outside guys off the LOS).
I would double-check that during dynasty game conditions, as practice mode has given weird interactions for some reason as seen during slider testing, but what you mention doesn't surprise me one bit......just another area where the real reason for something in football isn't understood and modeled correctly in the game.
I think that's something that has changed this year, Austin, because I believe what you described has been correct in past iterations of the series.
I read somewhere or saw on youtube that if you hot route your receivers to fade routes they won't/can't be jammed. Haven't tried to see if this is for sure but it's worth a shot. I don't have a problem w/ being jammed as I mainly play the CPU and haven't seen them jam my WRs. I don't throw deep that much as I'm more of a short quick passing game kinda guy so I may not be the best to judge it. I just thought I'd pass along the fade route hot route idea.