PDA

View Full Version : Oneback's Under Front Defense



Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:38 AM
Introduction

In order to be successful on defense you need to develop a philosophy. You have to know what you want to do, how you want to look, and how you want it to feel. A philosophy is like a railroad track. You have a clear cut direction in which you are going. If you start to get off track it becomes real obvious to you. If you don’t know what you want and what you are about you won’t know when you are off course. If you do realize you are off course you won’t know how to fix the problems you are having without a philosophy.

If you can’t write down your philosophy then you still have some work to do. If you don’t have a clear view of your philosophy you will be floundering all over the place. If you win, it will be pure luck. One year you will win, it will be pure luck. One year you will run a 34 defense and the next year you will run a 43 based defense. You will never get zeroed in on what is important.

What I can do is give you a basic understanding of the defense I run defense. I am not trying to sell this to you as being the best defense. What I am saying is that for me this is the defense that I know best and can make work.

I want to start out explaining the basic front end coverage. Then we’ll go over some of the more basic blitzes we run from this coverage.

The basic schematic structure to my defensive front is the under front, you may utilize this front with either the 34 or 43. Within this basic framework, each of the front seven players is responsible for a single gap along the offensive line. Inherently, this is an unforgiving discipline, because a single missed responsibility could potentially lead to a big gain by the offense; there usually isn’t any backup if we’re not considering the defensive backfield.

Advantages of the Under Defense

Man Advantage Around the Ball

Playing the under front allows the defense to always have more defenders that the offense has possible blockers. If the offense has eight possible blockers, the defense will have nine defenders close to the ball. If the offense has seven possible blockers, the defense will have eight defenders, etc. Having an extra defender around the ball is imperative, especially with the emergence of the athletic running quarterback.

Gap Control Defense

Each player is initially assigned only one gap. This gap is the one which the player is currently lined up in or over. There will not be any confusion as to which gap the defender is responsible for. From strong side to weak side the Sam is responsible for the D-gap, the end is responsible for the C-gap; the Mike is responsible for the B gap; the nose is responsible for the A gap; the Will is responsible for the A-gap; the tackle is responsible for the B-gap; and the Buck is responsible for the C-gap.

Only One Bubble

Many offensive coordinators like to attack the bubbles in a defense. Bubbles are natural holes a defense presents in their original alignment. The under front only has one bubble. The 34 defense presents two bubbles and the 43 defense presents three bubbles for an offensive coordinator to attack.

Tandems

The under defense has two adjacent outside shade players next to each other at each edge of the defense. This formation gives the defense a tremendous advantage against teams that try to get outside or try to block down and kick out.

Having two adjacent players at the outside of the defense makes it difficult for the offense to execute two reach blocks in a row to gain advantage on outside running plays such as outside zone or toss sweep.

Having two adjacent player’s means that any attempt to double and kick out can be swiftly defeated because of the proximity of the next defender. The presence of the defender makes it more difficult for the offense to run such plays as counter, lead, or power.

Highly Flexible

The under defense is highly flexible, allowing you to play with three or four down linemen. The Buck (the weak defensive end) can play in a three-point stance or a two-point stance, depending on your personnel or depending on the down and distance. This alignment also gives you more options in a substitution package if you choose to substitute.

Fast Play

The under front allows the defense to play fast when two backs are in the backfield. This alignment forces the offensive linemen to come off double-teams and combination blocks quickly.

Few adjustments

There is very little adjusting once the defense is aligned. The amount of adjusting the defense does is proportionate to how close the defenders are to the line of scrimmage, meaning that defensive backs are asked to do more adjusting than defensive linemen. Once the defensive line puts their hands to the ground, they do not move them. The only time a linebacker would have to adjust from his normal alignments is when the offense motions into a trips formation, and then only in a double-call defense. The secondary will make all the strength adjustments.

I hope that once I am done with this write-up everyone will be able to take something away and will be able to apply it towards your brand of defense.

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:39 AM
Defensive Philosophy

This is taken directly from Nick Saban or at least the parts that can apply to the game, it also aligns directly with my defensive philosophy so instead of trying to reinvent the wheel….

The philosophy on first and second down is to stop the run and play good zone pass defense. We will occasionally play man-to-man and blitz in this situation. On third down, we will primarily play man-to-man and mix in some zone and blitzes. We will rush four or more players versus the pass about 90 percent of the time.

In all situations, we will defend the inside or middle of the field first – defend inside to outside. Against the run, we will not allow the ball to be run inside. We want to force the ball outside. Against the pass, we will not allow the ball to be thrown deep down the middle or inside. We want to force the ball to be thrown short and/or outside.

Finally, our job is to take the ball away from the opponents’ offense and score or set up good field position for our offense. We must knock the ball loose, force mistakes, and cause turnovers. Turnovers and making big plays win games. We will be alert and aggressive and take advantage of every opportunity to come up with the ball.

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:40 AM
Terms

holder

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:41 AM
Player Archetype's

Each position within the defensive front has a specific archetype, these positions are; Weak side Defensive End (WDE), Nose Tackle (NT), Defensive Tackle (DT) and Strong side Defensive End (SDE) along the defensive line, and Weak side Linebacker (Will), Middle Linebacker (Mike) and Strong side Linebacker (Sam) make up the linebacker corps. Each position has a specific responsibility and players must be recruited that can fill these roles as best as they can. There cannot be any square peg in round hole recruiting here.

The under front has particular responsibilities for each player. Concurrently, each of these responsibilities themselves is the foundation of their teammate’s responsibilities: each position impacts and allows each other position to function. Starting from strong side and going to the weak side, with respect to the defense’s point of view of the offense (in that the strong side of the defense lines up opposite the strong side of the offense, usually the one with a Tight End), the first position to analyze is the Strong side Defensive End. The SDE lines up on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackle to his side. His position is important because it cuts off the angle from which the offensive tackle can move without resistance. This is the form of protection that he bestows upon the linebacker behind him: because of the angle of his lineup, the offensive tackle cannot easily block down on the second level linebacker without either going through the SDE or amidst the congested middle of the line. In order to make the former as difficult as possible, the SDE must possess some method of holding his ground. Most naturally, this would imply weight. Usually SDE’s range from 270-285 pounds, in addition to weight, the SDE needs some form of body composition that utilizes this girth. There are two options. The first is to evenly distribute the weight in a lankier frame. A longer body implies longer limbs. This, in combination with the greater amount of space that a longer body eats up, allows the SDE to control the line of scrimmage by dictating the movement of the offensive line with his longer arms. The second option for a SDE to utilize his size is a stockier frame to produce leverage. This requires a slightly heavier player to impose adequate leverage over what is no doubt a much taller offensive line.

The moral of the story for a SDE is that his job is to be a clogger. He prevents the linebackers behind him from being blocked by the offensive line and tight end opposite him, his angle of deployment, which on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackle and inside shoulder of the tight end, along with his girth, and size allow him to do this.
Next in line is maybe the most integral man in the under front, the Nose Tackle. He lines up in the gap between the center and guard on the SDE’s side. More than any other, his role is singularly that as a clogger. It is imperative that his physical presence prevents either the Center or Guard to a) defend him 1 on 1, freeing up one of the blockers, and b) bypassing the NT to the Mike or Will linebackers behind him. To meet this responsibility, the NT, like the SDE, has choices. Either actually clog the middle of the line with his immense girth, or prove to be strong enough and have enough of a competent knowledge of technique and leverage that the same goal is accomplished.

The Strong side Defensive End and Nose Tackle serve as the foundation upon which the under front is built. They are the necessary brick and mortar that enable the next two pieces, the Defensive Tackle and Weak side Defensive End to perform as disrupters.

The Defensive Tackle lines up on the outside shoulder of the Guard on the weak side. His position, labeled a Three Technique affords him the luxury of a one on one matchup with the Guard. Shielded both by the body of the Guard with whom he’s matched up and his Nose Tackle’s clogging responsibility tying up the center he is provided an ample two gaps worth of protection with which to work.

Alongside him, the Weak side Defensive End (Buck) also serves as a disruptor. He deploys on the outside shoulder of the left tackle, and the inherent disruptive qualities and unrivaled spatial isolation are the reasons Left Tackles are paid as much as they are. While the DT is also matched up against a single blocker, he is not awarded the space with which to work like the WDE. As such, he is the principle source of pass rush in this scheme. His size and physique must illustrate this principle goal: normally between 250 and 260 pounds, allowing him not to sacrifice speed and agility with which he can attack an environment (one blocker and nearly 30 yards of space) that is unrivaled by any other frontal configuration.

Behind the defensive line, the Linebackers serve as the second level of defense. Smallest among these is the Weak side Linebacker, the Will. Lining up in the gap between the NT and DT, the Will is provided unequaled protection and shielding from blockers in an ideal case. In fact, unless the Offense purposefully allows either the DT or WDE to come unabated (on a screen, for example), there cannot be a blocker to interfere with the Will.

Manning the middle of the pack, the Mike Linebacker is often the most recognizable figure in a defensive front. Lining up in the gap between the SDE and NT, he is afforded protection from downfield blockers. However, his role is similar to that of a NT and SDE, in that he is first a clogger and holder and second a disruptor. As such, he must carry enough weight to provide the physicality this inherently congested responsibility requires: anywhere from 240-260 pounds. The propensity of the offense to run its offense through the space the Mike occupies requires this additional size and strength in order to shed blocks and fulfill his role as a holder instead of consistently playing out of position.

Finally, the Strong side Linebacker serves as the dictator of the LB corps in a under scheme. Lining up on the outside shoulder of the Tight End, his foremost responsibility is play-side contain and dictation. While the Strong side Defensive End holds the play side offensive tackle and the Tight End or extra blocker, the Sam must also serve in this holding and clogging role. This responsibility is necessary in order to provide the force which turns the play inside for the free and pursuing weak side help to make the tackle unabated (the protected Mike and Will LBers). To achieve this goal, he must be strong enough to withstand and ultimately redirect play-side pressure: if he’s too small, then he will be unable to serve as the dam that directs the flow back inside. The blockade will burst, and the offense will gush through the opening, most likely for 6.

The under scheme is complex, interconnected and interdependent defensive approach. Each position must be manned by a player able to physically fulfill his responsibility. If not, then not only is his singularly manned gap vulnerable, but those other positions that depend on his support are compromised.

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:41 AM
Ratings Breakdown

I contemplated not putting this section in this break down as quite frankly the people in the two online dynasties I am in well run this place, but for the betterment of the community right…

Being as though each player has a specific function in this defense and the success or failure of each player impacts how well another player performs there needs to be close attention paid to who you are bringing in to play on your defense.

As with above I will start with the strong side players:

Strong Side Defensive End: Strength, Power Moves, and Block Shed

This player’s main function is to not allow movement in the running game (strength) and to be able to hold up against double teams (power move). He is not your primary pass rush threat and in most cases I will take him off the field in obvious passing situations. If you need to leave him on the field in passing situations you will need to focus on the block shedding rating however this rating in not needed for this defense in the running game.
He doesn’t need to be explosive or fast; Haloti Ngata and Shaun Ellis play this position for the Ravens and Jets.

Nose Tackle: Strength and Power Moves

This player’s only function is to draw double teams and keep blockers off the linebackers. He cannot allow movement (strength) and needs to hold up well against the double team (power moves). This player’s Block Shed rating doesn’t need to be high as again he just needs to catch blocks and not allow movement to keep blockers off the linebackers.

Think Terrance Cody when you are looking for this player.

Defensive Tackle: Strength, Power Moves, Finesse Moves and Block Shed

This player is the inside disruptive force. He still needs to be able to hold up well against the run (strength and power moves) and in passing situations he needs to be able to get to the quarterback (finesse moves and block shed). One key here though because this player plays on the inside is that you cannot have a player with a high finesse rating and a low power move rating, he will typically just get knocked down by the guard. Great 3-tech defensive tackles are a rare find both in real life and in the game as they require the most ability…they need to be able to hold up against the run and rush the passer.

Think Warren Sap or Ndamukong Suh for this player.

Weak side Defensive End (Buck): Finesse Move, Block Shed, Acceleration, Strength and Speed

This player is your pass rush specialist, he must be able to turn the corner (finesse move) in the passing game if the tackle does get a hold of him he must be able to break free (block shed). The best pass rushers will have the highest combination of both finesse move and block shedding. Acceleration determines how quickly the player gets up the field. Strength and speed aren’t vital for this player but the better the strength the better he will be able to hold up against the run. Speed isn’t as important if the player has good acceleration.

Think DeMarcus Ware or Brian Orakpo for this position.

Weak outside Linebacker (Will): Play Recognition, Tackling, Acceleration, Zone Coverage, Man Coverage, Block Shedding and Strength

This player is offered a lot of protection up front by the nose tackle, defensive tackle and buck. He doesn’t need to be a strong player but he does need to be able to read and react as he is asked to cover sideline to sideline (acceleration) and make tackles (tackling). He will also be key in your pass defense (zone and man coverage).

Think Derrick Brooks or Rolando McClain when looking for this player.

Middle Linebacker (Mike): Strength, Play Recognition, Tackling, Block Shedding

This player is the nose tackle of the linebackers. He has the responsibility of covering the only bubble in this defense and the offense will run ISO plays right at him. He must be able to take on the lead block (strength) and stop the blocker in the hole. If you have a good one he will be able to shed the block (block shedding) and make the tackle (tackling). As with every linebacker play recognition is important. You don’t need a superstar here, just someone that is able to get the job done.

Think Dont’a Hightower or E.J. Henderson

Strong outside Linebacker (Sam): Strength, Play Recognition, Tackling, Block Shedding, Man Coverage

Much like a middle linebacker this player must be strong at the point of attack (strength) and have the ability to turn the play back inside towards the waiting Mike and Will. There will be times where he is in man coverage on the tight end (man coverage) so he must be able to perform in this role as the situation will typically be a cover 1 or 0 pressure defense.

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:42 AM
Determining Strength

Regular People: Strength is determined by 2 WR and the TE. The side which has 2 of any 3 of these is the strong side.

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/2406/iform.jpg
Strong Left

Silver: Strength is determined by 2 WR and the TE. The side which has 2 of any 3 of these is the strong side.

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3576/wingstrength.jpg
Strong Left

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/1933/wingtwinsstrength.jpg
Strong Right

Silver Dot: Strength determined by 1st “Y” or “Z”.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4883/acestrength.jpg
Strong Left

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3558/acetwinsstrength.jpg
Strong Right

Green: Strength determined by 1 WR and the TE’s. The side which has 2 of any 3 of these is the strong side.

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3344/itightstrength.jpg
Strong Left

Blue: Strength is determined by the WR’s. The side which has 2 of any 3 of these is the strong side.

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/8254/slotstrength.jpg
Strong Right

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6739/ytripsstrength.jpg
Strong Left

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:43 AM
Player Alignment

The most basic task a defense must master is to get lined up correctly. The defense is expected to align correctly to all formations presented during the course of a game. The under defense is called when there is base personnel in the game. The tight end will not always align in his regular position, nor will the two backs always align in the backfield. Therefore, you must have a contingency plan for all possible alignments. The base call is under cover 2/3. The defense will align in cover 2 unless three wide receivers are on one side of the center.

Alignment Rules:

Sam



Lines up in a 9 technique. If there are two tight ends, lines up to the dominant tight end. The dominant tight end is the tight end the offense runs to most of the time.
Lines up in the apex if there are two or more detached receivers to his side, he lines up in the middle of the #2 receiver and the next offensive player inside, five yards deep.
If there is not a tight end, he lines up to the field.


http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/6137/apex.jpg
The Sam is lined up in an apex between the #2 and the #3 receivers.

Mike


Lines up in a wide 30 to the side of the Sam. A wide 30 means that the Mike will line up with his inside foot on the outside foot of the offensive guard.
Trips to Mike: lines up in a 50.
Trips away from Mike: lines up in a 00.


Will



Lines up in a 20, away from Sam.
Must not be out flanked by a running back in the backfield.
Trips to Will: lines up in a 50.
Trips away from will: lines up in a 00.


http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2476/ialign.jpg
When the offense is in an I formation, the Will lines up in a 20 technique over the guard.

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/8337/weak.jpg
The Will lines up on the outside shade of an offset back. This alignment ensures that the running back cannot gain leverage on the Will with an outside run toward him or a pass release from the offset back.

Defensive End

Lines up in a 5 technique to the away from Will.

Buck

The defensive end to Will’s side lines up in a 7 technique. If he cannot line up in a 7 technique, he lines up in a 5 technique.

Nose

Lines up in a shade technique away from Will over the offensive center.

Defensive Tackle

The defensive tackle will line up to Will’s side in a 3 technique.

Rover



Lines up away from the Sam
He is called the Rover because he has to make the most adjustments.
If there are two backs in the backfield, he lines up 1 yard outside and 7 yards deep of the offensive tackle.
If there are two backs in the backfield and there is a tight end to the Rover’s side, the Rover lines up in a hip position 2 yards outside and 2 yards off the tight end (double tight).
Trips to Rover: lines up in an apex.
Trips away from Rover: lines up in a 50.
One-back 2x2 sets: Rover alignment will vary with coverage rules.


Free



He is called the free because is not tied into the front. He is free to go to the passing strength.
If two backs are in the backfield, the free lines up on or over #2. If #2 is a tight end, the free lines up eight yards over the tight end. If the #2 is a slot, the free lines up 1 yard inside and 10 yards off of the #2.
Versus one back 2x2 sets: aligns on the #2 to the Sam’s side. Depth will vary depending on the coverage called and the down and distance.
Versus a one back 3x1 formations: lines up in the middle of the #1 receiver to each side. This alignment is called spacing the ones.


Corner



Lines up 1 yard inside and 8 yards off any #1 receiver. If the #1 has a close split, aligns 1 yard outside and 8 yards off the #1.
Lines up over the top if the #1 is a tight end.
Alignments will vary depending on the coverage and down and distance situations.


Alignment Rules versus common Offensive Formations

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2476/ialign.jpg
I formation

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/6439/twinsq.jpg
I Twins

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/634/slotb.jpg
Slot

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5702/tripsh.jpg
Trips

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6715/itight.jpg
I Tight

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/1622/emptyv.jpg
Empty

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:44 AM
Cover 1

Man to man coverage with a MOF safety and a hole player underneath (designated rat on ball action) (MOF/Seams)

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:45 AM
Cover 2

A double rotated zone with 2 deep and 5 under, with 3 linebackers in coverage. Linebacker flow rule.

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:45 AM
Cover 3

A rotated 3 deep zone coverage to the two receicer side of the offensive formation with three linebackers in coverage. Linebacker flow rule.
Coaching Point: Down and distance/ 2 minute -- play deeper.

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:46 AM
Cover 4

5 Under, 2 Deep zone played vs. slot only.

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:47 AM
Cover 5

A combination of 5 Under Man, 2 Deep zone coverage.

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:48 AM
Cover 6

A rotated zone coverage to the one receiver side of a pro formation with 3 linebackers in coverage. Linebacker flow rule. Check 2nd coverage call vs. slot.


http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5922/cover6.jpg

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:49 AM
Cover 7

4 on 3 Strong Match Coverage that has the Rover playing with #2 Weak, However will self adjust on any 4 strong formation to weak - match - mable with the Rover playing in the deep Middle

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:50 AM
Cover 8

4 on match strong coverage with the free safety and weak corner play as cover 2. Is self adjusting vs. all formations.

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:51 AM
Cover 9

A Man to man coverage with post help. Safety and corner will double designated wide reciever. No flow Rule. OLBer covers TE. 1-Back Rule - Safety takes back out, LBer doubles.

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:51 AM
Zone Alert

3 deep zone coverage on pro formations that will self adjust to a 2 deep concept vs 2 back slot formations with no #4 weak. Rita/Linda rotate based on backfield set (Buzz strong/Sky weak). Rita/Linda sky on any one back sets to the detached #3 receiver.


http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6586/zonealert.jpg

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:52 AM
Hash Defense

holder

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:53 AM
Empty Rules

holder

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:53 AM
Pressure Rules

With a field call on the hash, we can package zone blitzes based upon the surface of the field. The first call is based upon a 3-man surface to the field. The second call is based upon a 2-man surface to the field. Follow filed rules for alignment and pressure accordingly to surface.

1. Field Alaska/Return

Vs. TE (3 man surface) to field = Alaska
Vs. 2 man surface to field = Return

2. Field Philly/Return

Vs. 3 man surface to field = Philly
Vs. 2 man surface to field = Return

3. Field Arizona/Return

Vs. 3 man surface to field = Arizona
Vs. 2 man surface to field = Return

4. Field Crash/Return

Vs 3 man surface to field = Crash
Vs 2 man surface to field = Return



http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/7425/pressurerules.jpg

Oneback
09-16-2010, 08:55 AM
Man Pressure

holder

Oneback
09-16-2010, 04:03 PM
Zone Pressure

holder

Oneback
09-16-2010, 04:04 PM
holding place 2

Oneback
09-16-2010, 04:05 PM
holding place 3

Oneback
09-16-2010, 04:12 PM
Q&A

holder

JeffHCross
09-17-2010, 07:06 AM
Nice write-up so far, Oneback. Though you may want to emphasize that it's a 43/34 joint philosophy. That part wasn't immediately clear to me. I know you say it, but somehow I overlooked it several times.

Oneback
09-18-2010, 04:54 PM
I have updated player alignments.

Oneback
09-19-2010, 02:06 PM
Updated determining strength

Roy38
09-21-2010, 07:25 PM
I'm using the 4-3 defense this year in my online dynasty, so I'm interested in what you're coming with. I typically use "glamour" defenses such as the 4-2-5 and 3-3-5, but I didn't have the personnel on my team to utilize those defenses, so I went back and dusted off my 4-3 skills. Entering season #3, I don't know if I'll make the switch back because I'm liking what this playbook has to offer. In my opinion, the 4-3 is one of the most fleshed out defensive playbooks of the bunch. However, I have a question in regards to your defense (which I'm sure can be answered as you complete this project).

From my understanding, the SDE and NT serve as cloggers, while the DT and WDE or Buck are your primary pass rushers. That being said, how are you able to put pressure on the QB using your front four? Are you getting pressure primarily from the WDE and DT? From my experience, the SDE (lined up over the RT) generates the most pressure along with the NT while the DT and WDE are rarely able to make plays. I don't know why this occurs, but it does. When I run my defense, I place my best DE over the LT because of his responsibility to cover the weak side (which you also outlined in this project) and my second best DE over the RT as he has more help in shutting down strong side runs. I determine my best DE as the player who has the highest Awareness coupled with the best Block Shedding, Power Move, and Finesse Move rating as this End plays on an island and needs to be able to get past his blocker to shut down plays to the weak side before they turn into big gains. In doing so, I've accumulated this following stats the last two years (stats listed are year#1, year #2):

SDE: 21 Sacks, 16 Sacks
NT: 9 Sacks, 7 Sacks
DT: 4 Sacks, 5 Sacks
WDE: 3 Sacks, 6 Sacks

Added to this, I swapped out my DE's in season #2 as the SDE improved over the WDE to the point I flipped their positions, so I had the same players on the field, just different positions from one year to the next.

This is also one of the reasons I place my best T at the RT position as this position gets abused regularly. For me, having the best T at LT is wasted because the WDE is unable to create consistent pressure. If you're getting better pressure than I am from what should be the best pass rusher on the team, I'm all ears.

Oneback
09-21-2010, 08:01 PM
My first question would be what alignment are you using? The under front? The only reason I ask is in testing out all this real world stuff in the game I found that the SDE didn't need to have as good finesse move ratings because he was lined up more inside where the power move ratings became more of a factor. The WDE or Bandit needed to have good finesse move and block shed ratings to get a consistant pass rush even when coming from the wider alignment.

Now when I started testing 43 normal the same was true of the SDE but the Bandit was unable to get around the LT...I assume this is because left tackles typically have better pass block ratings and better acceleration which negates the better pass rush abilities of the Bandit.

Now the load up UCF on defense and their RDE is almost unblockable...he's got 90+ Finesse Move and Block Shed with good Speed and Accleration. There is a freshman RDE on Florida's team that has 89 speed, low acceleration, high finesse move and average block shed who will start to cause havok as well but is still capable of getting blocked (low block shed rating).

In the under front you really want to find a RDE that has good speed, great acceleration and great finesse move and block shed ratings...he will be almost unblockable. On the strong side you can get away with a guy that has decent finesse move and good power moves to generate pressure.

Same goes for DT, you need a guy with goot power moves, finiesse moves and block shed....Marcel Dareus is a perfect example of this and he is virtually unblockable.

It may be partly your sliders as well as I will admit EA gives a boost to the LT to keep the Bandit down, but if he's got good to great ratings at least under my sliders he can start to create havok.

This has all been tested in practice mode under strict guidelines (same defensive play/same offensive play) over numerous plays then verified in play now games.

I will be able to give you more feed back in dynasty as I have just now been able to land the type of players to make this work.

Roy38
09-21-2010, 10:14 PM
My first question would be what alignment are you using? The under front? The only reason I ask is in testing out all this real world stuff in the game I found that the SDE didn't need to have as good finesse move ratings because he was lined up more inside where the power move ratings became more of a factor. The WDE or Bandit needed to have good finesse move and block shed ratings to get a consistant pass rush even when coming from the wider alignment.

I wouldn't say I catered to one defensive front over another as I used the 4-3 Normal, 4-3 Over, and 4-3 Under all equally. Each provides their own unique advantages and disadvantages.


Now when I started testing 43 normal the same was true of the SDE but the Bandit was unable to get around the LT...I assume this is because left tackles typically have better pass block ratings and better acceleration which negates the better pass rush abilities of the Bandit.

I would assume this to be true also, but I have played numerous games with a superior WDE over an inferior LT and still had difficulty creating pressure. This may sound strange, but I feel the shortest point to the QB exists between the SDE and the QB.


It may be partly your sliders as well as I will admit EA gives a boost to the LT to keep the Bandit down, but if he's got good to great ratings at least under my sliders he can start to create havok.

My sliders are as follows:

Difficulty: All-American
Quarter Length: 8 minutes
Game Speed: Slow
Player Min Speed Threshold: 15

Sliders (User / CPU):
QB Accuracy: 45 / 45
Pass Blocking: 55 / 50
WR Catching: 50 / 55
RB Ability: 50 / 55
Run Blocking: 50 / 50
Pass Coverage: 35 / 40
Pass Rush: 50 / 50
Interceptions: 15 / 20
Rush Defense: 45 / 55
Tackling: 45 / 40

I am using Southern Miss in my online dynasty and using Fairdale Kings roster set. If I remember correctly, I was using Deddrick Jones at SDE and Cordarro Law at WDE year #1, then flipped year #2.

Oneback
09-22-2010, 05:18 AM
Not sure what the level of OT's your facing are, being that you I assume you are in C-USA they are probably decent. Cordarro Law on Iron Dragon's rosters has 72 spd, 74 acc, 75 fmv and 80 bsh...none ove those ratings will get him around the LT in any sort of time to make an impact. Deddrick Jones looks much the same at 72 spd, 72 acc, 65 fmv, 74 bsh.

Those ratings just aren't going to get the job done on the left side. Based on the stats above you are getting sacks but how are you getting them? Are you bringing pressure then one of your guys come free or are you just rushing 4? I can understand Cordarro Law getting more sacks on the right side as he is more of a pmv player depending on your alignment.

Roy38
09-22-2010, 10:12 AM
Not sure what the level of OT's your facing are, being that you I assume you are in C-USA they are probably decent. Cordarro Law on Iron Dragon's rosters has 72 spd, 74 acc, 75 fmv and 80 bsh...none ove those ratings will get him around the LT in any sort of time to make an impact. Deddrick Jones looks much the same at 72 spd, 72 acc, 65 fmv, 74 bsh.

Those ratings just aren't going to get the job done on the left side. Based on the stats above you are getting sacks but how are you getting them? Are you bringing pressure then one of your guys come free or are you just rushing 4? I can understand Cordarro Law getting more sacks on the right side as he is more of a pmv player depending on your alignment.

In my online dynasty, the user teams don't play each other during the season. We play through our schedules and let everything shake out at the end of the season. As commissioner of our dynasty, I attempt to schedule at least an A- schedule for all teams. This is difficult for Southern Miss because of their conference, so I schedule several strong opponents (TCU, Boise State, Virginia Tech, Clemson, and Florida State come to mind) to beef up my schedule strength.

My team is definitely lacking in talent especially on the defensive side of the ball. This was one reason why I chose the 4-3 defense as their roster is ill-suited for anything else and can be used more conservatively. I do bring pressure from all over the field, but I would say I lean more towards bringing more pressure from the weak side which should allow for improved numbers from the WDE, Will, and Mike, but I'm not seeing it. Based on the numbers, Deddrick Jones had the best sack stats as he generated 21 sacks at SDE and 6 sacks at WDE. Cordarro Law had 3 sacks at WDE and 16 sacks at SDE respectively those seasons. I will add I like to user a DL, but 90% of the time it's with a DT as I like to control the middle and limit interior running.

Oneback
09-26-2010, 07:41 PM
I have updated Cover 6 and Zone Alert, I am in the process of typing up the full breakdown of both while watching the Jets/Phins game.

JeffHCross
09-26-2010, 09:09 PM
After looking at Cover 6, I now understand why you were asking about giving additional time for defensive adjustments.

Your choice on whether or not to answer this, but did any of the formations I ran in our game provide difficulty for your defense, or did I just get lucky?

Oneback
09-26-2010, 09:51 PM
When I was asking for additional time to make adjustments I had some more complex things I wanted to do, however since no one bit I started to really simplify it so I could get the adjustments done quickly.

The biggest problem I had with your offense was my lack of talent at linebacker, after the current recruiting class that shouldn't be a problem anymore.

Early in the game when my highly rated defensive line was making plays I was at least making you work. Then as the game went along and my line wore down it really started to expose my linebackers which is when you really started to run the ball well/the broken tackles started to mount. Combine that with the complete opposite ways our teams were playing with your defense batting down every ball that was within a 5 yard radius to a defensive player and the lucky breaks you got a few times in the passing game (tipped/batted ball that would go straight to one of your recievers), I started getting frustrated and it got me off my game.

Against that Ace Jumbo look you threw out for the entire first drive I really should have gone to a bigger front instead of staying in the 43, however they were holding up pretty well, but I had to commit too much to the run to cover both sides of that formation which opened up the passing game, knowing that your QB wasn't exactly good I knew you'd be throwing underneath and my linebackers again just weren't able to make plays.

It was really the #1 weakness of my team this season, I only have 2 true linebackers (all the reast are basically strong safeties, thanks Rich Rod) and only one of those is any good (JB Fitzgerald), last year I had 4 true linebackers, next year I should have 5+. If I played in the Pac 10 or ACC with those spread offenses I would be fine, but in the Big 10 where you, g and snoop like to play smashmouth it showed in both of my losses this year.

JeffHCross
09-26-2010, 10:03 PM
My QB is just fine, but otherwise I agree with everything you wrote. The underneath throws are less about my QB and more about my confidence in throwing the ball.

Roy38
09-27-2010, 01:30 PM
Suggestion #1: When discussing personnel to fit the Under front, you might want to highlight in detail the minimum attributes you're looking for. For example:

WDE:
Speed - C+
Agility - C+
Acceleration: - B-
Strength - C+
Awareness - D- (the higher the better)
Block Shedding - B-
Power Move - C-
Finesse Move - B-

This would help us "see" what you looking at and what players you are recruiting to fit your scheme.

Roy38
09-27-2010, 06:43 PM
Suggestion #2: When implementing your defensive plays (Cover 6, Zone Alert, etc.), indicate your base formation and the subsequent hot routes to set up these defenses. For example:

Cover 6:
Base Formation: Cover 3
Hot Routes:

Sam - Flat
Mike - Hook
Will - Hook
Rover - Flat


Or whatever you're doing (I don't remember off the top of my head each players assignment on a cover 3 as I'm only assuming these are your coverage changes).

Oneback
09-27-2010, 07:14 PM
Will do, I am still working on the full write-up for both plays. Finding time can sometimes be difficult with work and a kiddo.

Oneback
10-04-2010, 07:33 AM
Since I don't have access to my PS3 right now I cannot update the coverages, but I did just put up my pressure rules. I will list the blitzes at another time, but basically Return is just blitzing the OLB to the open side...The others are the different blitzes I use.

JeffHCross
10-16-2010, 11:23 AM
Thought this may interest you, OB. A write-up on Ohio State vs Wisconsin, with a focus (at least initially) on Ohio State's 4-3 Under.

http://www.alongtheolentangy.com/2010/10/16/1754715/the-wisconsin-offense-and-the-osu-defensive-response-part-ii

HoggyStyle
08-10-2011, 01:10 PM
I had a quick question here; im not even sure if you're still running this thread but im finding it a very good read and informational nontheless.

you stated Mike

Lines up in a wide 30 to the side of the Sam. A wide 30 means that the Mike will line up with his inside foot on the outside foot of the offensive guard.
Trips to Mike: lines up in a 50.
Trips away from Mike: lines up in a 00.

In the one picture with the trips formation to the will side; I still see the Mike lining up in the 30 technique. I guess im confused as to the terminoligy of trips to mike side since he is the middle LB and if you're manually moving him over the top of the center at 00 since its to the will side?