Over Powered Double Teams

[Rudy]

I’ve read complaints about how Madden 25 was too easy to run outside last year. But for me M25 became unplayable due to the inside running game. It wasn’t the only issue I had with the game but knowing I could call a very basic inside running play and automatically gain decent yards every time became a game killer for me. We all have to overlook issues in every sports game but this was one I was unable to overcome.

The biggest issue was the double team block. Two OL would block a DT and automatically blow him 5 yards off the ball. That isn’t realistic on every play. The fact it wasn’t dynamic with different outcomes and that good DTs never held their ground or split that double team meant inside runs were money plays. The traditional I-formation ISO power up the middle was way too easy. That is not some goofy play I can exploit. It’s a bread and butter play that shouldn’t make me feel guilty to call.

Here is an example from M25 on the PS3 where the C/RG just destroy the DL in a double team. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpvckGhT8Wg#t=46 While other defensive players have a chance to make a play, far too often there was a huge gap at the point of attack that led to easy yards. It was consistent, reliable and unable to be fixed. I know quite a few gamers were frustrated by this and maxing out the sliders or going to All-Madden didn’t help.


Looking at some E3 videos this year I still see some issues. Here is an example from M15 on the PS4 (the RDT gets picked on lol). At 2:55 the LG and C completely move the DT out of the hole. The run doesn’t go this way but you can see the effects. This is with Shopmaster playing on All-Pro so it’s not a difficulty level problem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D2GK_z3Az0#t=825

This play isn’t so bad and gives me some hope. The LT and LG double the DT and while he stays blocked at least he’s not 5 yards downfield. He actually holds his ground fairly decent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjBC6GJHlfU#t=222

The C and RG double the SF DT and move him completely off the ball by three yards. The DE makes the play so it was a loss for Seattle but the double team block is VERY effective. And this was the cpu blocking on Pro difficulty (most likely).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmlurMT453E#t=286

On this play the LG and C move the DT completely out of the hole. It least it’s not 5 yards straight backwards, just to the right. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjBC6GJHlfU#t=175

I don’t mind seeing this once in a while, especially against an inferior DL. Two on one should win most of the time. Usually in the NFL a double team is an initial block as one of the OL runs down to take on a LB, not something where they double the entire play. But a great DT like Suh needs to split that block occasionally. And a monster NT like Vince Wolfork should be able to hold his ground consistently, not getting pushed backwards. Either way it can be fine if it’s dynamic and not something that happens the same way 99% of the time. If not the inside running game may become a money play and perhaps a game killer for those really bothered by it. It’s too early to tell from the few plays I’ve seen. Maybe it’s dynamic and well done. I just don’t want it like M25.

[GatorfanStovy]

just enjoy the game.

[SmoothPancakes]

just enjoy the game.

And it's remarks like that that results in games these day becoming more and more piles of crap for the masses instead of getting true improvements from year to year due to feedback from those who buy it and play it. "Who cares if something is broken, suck it up and just enjoy the game". Yeah, lets just close our eyes and ignore the issues because, hey, just enjoy the game.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8vNzwxlohg0/Sw9T3iuxt7I/AAAAAAAAAzs/jyaXq2qjIo8/s1600/sgt_20schultz_small.jpg

[Rudy]

Exactly Smooth. I overlooked a lot to enjoy M13 at times but this really bothered me last year. It's not a hard fix either IMO.

[bdoughty]

It is a hard thing to say one way or the other when you have such a small sampling of plays. The only way to see how dynamic it is would be to go to practice mode and run the same plays over and over to see the outcomes and also how certain players you mentioned Suh/Wolfork handle double team and of course you have factor in the quality of the O-Line

Now as for GatorDude, he obviously fails to realize that without people like yourself and others in all the sports gaming community who take the time to break down sections of the game and find the flaws are only helping to make a better game. While I think you guys who break down videos and spend more time tweaking sliders than playing the game are a bit on the anal retentive side, your obsessions only benefit me. I rarely tweak sliders and only do so when I see gaping flaws. EA reads informative posts like these and see what the sliders are doing to help improve the game yearly. Making my gameplay experience more enjoyable, so I can take the time to bitch about the important things like cameras, sidelines and dynamic lighting. ;) So GatorDude, stop hating and start appreciating.

Carry on my Canadian son
There'll be a simulation when you are done

[Rudy]

LOL. I fully admit to obsessing over sliders and some things. This issue may be OK. But it was so poorly done last year I quit Madden. On a positive note it led me to NCAA 14 which I really enjoyed.

[GatorfanStovy]

I'm just saying u guys are knit picking too much, complaint about double teams, really? I understand where Ur coming from about ea and their crap game but with the Xbox 1 n ps4 the game shoukd improve each year.
I'm just saying your trying make the game look horrible for when I'm sure it will be a good game. All these assignments you guys ask for are probably hard to implement into a game. Each year I keep hoping they up grade superstar mode, adding draft work outs, pro day work outs etc all like the little things that each rookie goes before drafted. Then once drafted doing work outs, training on their skills and practices before each game on Sunday then add in all presentation stuff. It's their but still needs improvement.

It's not like many of us could even attempt to go out and make a better game. Just isn't that easy with all legal bs n rights issue now a days.


Just saying.

[SmoothPancakes]

I'm just saying u guys are knit picking too much, complaint about double teams, really? I understand where Ur coming from about ea and their crap game but with the Xbox 1 n ps4 the game shoukd improve each year.
I'm just saying your trying make the game look horrible for when I'm sure it will be a good game. All these assignments you guys ask for are probably hard to implement into a game. Each year I keep hoping they up grade superstar mode, adding draft work outs, pro day work outs etc all like the little things that each rookie goes before drafted. Then once drafted doing work outs, training on their skills and practices before each game on Sunday then add in all presentation stuff. It's their but still needs improvement.

It's not like many of us could even attempt to go out and make a better game. Just isn't that easy with all legal bs n rights issue now a days.


Just saying.

There is so much :fp: in this comment, I think I'd have a brain aneurism just trying to type out a full reply.

Sent from my Droid Maxx using Tapatalk because I'm a lazy ass

[Rudy]

Gator, it's not really nitpicking about double teams when the result of the play is a DT getting blown off the line creating easy inside runs. When you watch most of the E3 videos guys are throwing the ball, running read options or outside plays and it doesn't show up much. But if you want to play old school power football, at least on third and short, it can feel cheap if this type of blocking results in easy first downs against the CPU.

[GatorfanStovy]

Well if it is too easy, then turn it to all Madden then. Isn't the demo's at e3 on rookie any how? Of course people are run all over the CPU.

[SmoothPancakes]

Well if it is too easy, then turn it to all Madden then. Isn't the demo's at e3 on rookie any how? Of course people are run all over the CPU.

If it's broken, it's broken. Turning it to some proprietary difficulty level will not fix it. All you're doing at that point is trying to mask a potential game breaking issue with a CPU that essentially "cheats" more to make it seem like a higher difficulty. You slap lipstick on a pig, it's still an ugly ass pig. You slap lipstick on a broken fundamental aspect of offense and defense, it's still broken and crap. Trying to ignore and pretending it doesn't exist ("I see nothing!") or raising difficulty levels is nothing but half passed attempts to fix a glaring issue. And even after that, the issue will still exist.

Instead of pretending the issue doesn't exist or trying to half ass fix it with difficulty level changes or whatever, here's a novel idea, how about the Madden team fix it themselves so it is no an issue for anybody, no matter what difficulty level they play on.

You sat there listing all these changes and additions you want to Superstar mode, that's great, though it only affects those who play Superstar mode. These are changes we want to gameplay, that affect every single person who buys the game. But, I guess if we're supposed to just imitate Sgt. Schultz and cover our eyes and shout "I see nothing!" and just "enjoy the game" despite issues with the gameplay that need fixed, well, I suppose you can just as easily do the same thing. When you get to that part of the season in Superstar mode, just "enjoy the game" and not complain about certain things not being available in the mode, because, hey, everyone should just enjoy the game as is and stop trying to help inform the devs about what needs added or fixed and stop helping trying to improve the game as buyers and customers of EA's product.

Sent from my Droid Maxx using Tapatalk because I'm a lazy ass

[jaymo76]

I found the run game in Madden 25 ps4 to be a BIG improvement over the run game in Madden 25 ps3. Some of the changes were subtle but it was more of a challenge to move the rock, with average rb's. However, I do agree with Rudy's commentary about double team blocking for the HUM offensive line. You rarely see it when the cpu is on offense but it's a regular occurrence for a human player.

[Rudy]

Well if it is too easy, then turn it to all Madden then. Isn't the demo's at e3 on rookie any how? Of course people are run all over the CPU.

You don't think I tried that? On all-madden last year and 0 run block i could still run up the middle too easy. It was freaking broken! Other things got out of whack too. The game was horribly unbalanced on the PS3 and the sliders worked Iike shit. Combine that with stupid difficulty system that has been horribly watered down the last 5 years and I got a very frustrating football game that I gave up on. I don't belong on all-madden and yet I could succeed there. A lot of the elite gamers gave up on Madden since it was too easy. Hell, I won 3 superbowls in a row in M13 because it was so easy. They almost need another difficulty setting if they aren't going to make the sliders more powerful.

[GatorfanStovy]

I guess I don't notice the these problems u guys are talking. I just enjoy the game for football because well now it's the only game in town sad but true.

I understand you want problems fixed and What not. Is the bolocking a major or just a tiny issue?

I again I just point or break down games and there so called issues down to blocking like you guys do. I'm a gamer but not a problem fixer in games. some things I will more than others. Like to so called shitty ass servers Madden gets ever year. I would rather those be fixed then double blocking issue.

[Rudy]

It was a major issue for me because it was too easy to run and i couldn't fix it. If it didn't bother you fine but it sucked for me.

[bdoughty]

I guess I don't notice the these problems u guys are talking. I just enjoy the game for football because well now it's the only game in town sad but true.

I understand you want problems fixed and What not. Is the bolocking a major or just a tiny issue?

I again I just point or break down games and there so called issues down to blocking like you guys do. I'm a gamer but not a problem fixer in games. some things I will more than others. Like to so called shitty ass servers Madden gets ever year. I would rather those be fixed then double blocking issue.

The irony is those "shitty ass servers" in Madden are probably better than most sports games. Try playing MLB The Show online or NBA 2K14. This is one area EA does pretty well, except for the TW series which always had some big issue each year

As for "bolocking" that is just bollocks. ;) The line play is the most important aspect of a football game. Has it improved over the years, sure. Is it perfect? Well anything controlled by AI will never be perfect. It can be improved upon.

[GatorfanStovy]

I love MLB The show and they there RTTS very well some minor bugs but it is done well. EA can do a superstar mode if the felt like but they lazy. NBA games are not my style.

Online thw show is shit each year! And it hasn't improved. I've plaid it once maybe twice online. Usually grind out RTTS Mode. If Sony did a NFL game like they did MLB the show it would probably kill Madden. I'd be playing MLB the show if i had a ps4. But only upgraded to one console this year.

[Rudy]

Sony did make an NFL game called Gameday. It was good in 97 and was the first polygon game on the PS. Madden was forced to up their game, they did and Gameday ended up dying. SONY also made a terrible basketball game. You can't assume a company can make a good game. It's the individual teams that make the game and no sport is harder to make than football.

[GatorfanStovy]

I remember Game day. it was an awesome game. EA just got jealous once all these football games started coming and where cheaper back in the day. So they just took the NFL licenses and went to be bitches about it and now we have today as EA Madden the only sports game in town for what the last decade because they didn't want competition. so dumb.

[bdoughty]

Yeah, like Rudy said Gameday was good at the beginning but turned to crap toward the end. The series died because they put out a terrible product, EA had nothing to do with that. Competition itself does not guarantee anything. PES was a turd for most of this generation while FIFA flourished. Virtua Tennis went from greatness to tursville, while Top Spin made strides with the last two games. Remember when 2K Sports had a hockey and baseball game?

The days of competition in officially licensed games are pretty much gone. Licensing and development costs are too expensive and in many sports there really is only room for one game. It is a big reason I do not expect to see NBA Live after this year, there are only so many people buying NBA games. EA was part of the problem with exclusives back in the day but in today's gaming market, I doubt it would look much different with nobody having exclusives. You still have to pay for the license's and the cost to develop the game. We saw how well 2K fared with the MLB series. They paid for the license but forgot to develop a really good game and in their final year they just payed for a license and moved the Astro's to the AL.

Sports games will never be what the once were. Personally, I blame the consumer. Especially those dingleberries that keep purchasing yearly COD/Assassins Creed games and making Activision/Ubisoft richer than shit. None of those piles of money are going to help make licensed sports games. Unless you consider hunting a sport and since no sane person would...

[GatorfanStovy]

So do u Fi ya think cod will take out bf or is there enough income there for them to keep going ?