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JBHuskers
08-05-2010, 10:12 AM
You can view the page at http://www.thegamingtailgate.com/forums/content.php?261-NCAA-Football-11-Live-Tuning-Package-1-Now-Out

JBHuskers
08-05-2010, 10:14 AM
Q&A that Russ has posted as well:

Q: Will I need to restart my Dynasties for these changes to work?
A: You do not need to start your Dynasty over, these changes will be applied to all Offline and Online Dynasties after you download the file. Dynasties that are past years 4 and 5 might take a season or two before everything is back on track.

Q: Should I put my existing Dynasties on hold? Or do I just continue playing?
A: Continue playing the game, like the previous question these changes will work on any current Dynasty.

Q: Are the Live Tuning Packs optional? Can I revert back to the older version if I don’t like the changes?
A: For Offline game modes if you do not download the file the changes will not be made (or you can delete the file from the File Management screen), however for all Online game modes you will need the changes. Do note that any changes we make are to improve the game.

Q: Will this update fix the high number of injuries or fumbles?
A: Both are very subjective thing, the data we’ve been tracking does not indicate there is a high amount of either. But we will continue to monitor them. Keep in mind if you’re trying to break out of a lot of tackles your chance to fumble goes up and you can use the Game-Planning options in Play Call to cut down on fumbles.

Q: Will the LTP change my Rosters?
A: There is no impact on Rosters.

Q: How do LTP’s impact my sliders settings?
A: None of the changes in Live Tuner Package 1 will change anything with Sliders. You will not have to reset them.

Q: Do LTP’s have different effects on each difficulty level or does everything change?
A: For the game play changes, yes. But they have been tuned to be in-line with the difficulty of each level.

Q: How will Online Games be impacted – do I need these for Head to Head?
A: They will automatically be downloaded for every Head to Head game. You do not need to save them.

Q: Does this fix Dynasty Not Available?
A: We’ve been working on these as quickly as possible (and have fixed a number already). Please keep checking our NCAA 11 Forums for more information.

psusnoop
08-05-2010, 10:30 AM
Looking forward to seeing how well this addresses the issues

sl8b
08-05-2010, 10:30 AM
Q: Will I need to restart my Dynasties for these changes to work?
A: You do not need to start your Dynasty over, these changes will be applied to all Offline and Online Dynasties after you download the file. Dynasties that are past years 4 and 5 might take a season or two before everything is back on track.

Q: Should I put my existing Dynasties on hold? Or do I just continue playing?
A: Continue playing the game, like the previous question these changes will work on any current Dynasty.

For us offline dynasty players (and OD's I guess), this is great news. I for one am happy with the update. I know it is a disappointment for some, but it's a great start for me. Now I can rest easy knowing I'm not wasting my dynasty time. I'm also going to go ahead and have faith that we won't need to restart dynasties for the next patch or LTP.

JBHuskers
08-05-2010, 10:46 AM
Looking forward to seeing how well this addresses the issues


For us offline dynasty players (and OD's I guess), this is great news. I for one am happy with the update. I know it is a disappointment for some, but it's a great start for me. Now I can rest easy knowing I'm not wasting my dynasty time. I'm also going to go ahead and have faith that we won't need to restart dynasties for the next patch or LTP.

Agreed....I'm pretty stoked on these changes.

AustinWolv
08-05-2010, 11:08 AM
This is good progress and shows some study to back it up. While the 'homework' can always be subjected to interpretation, this is much better support and customer service than we've seen in the years of past NCAA versions. Kudos on that.

They just flat-out addressed what the community is having problems with. That is good stuff and hopefully can apply to some other items that people have noted.

steelerfan
08-05-2010, 11:09 AM
While I'm happy about the changes, I'm concerned it won't be adequate for kickers. Time will tell.

Fortunately, I'm at home so I can fire up my Dynasty and push forward immediately!

rhombic21
08-05-2010, 11:15 AM
This contains ZERO substantive gameplay fixes, so please save the "awesome customer service" line.

steelerfan
08-05-2010, 11:17 AM
Just to take some of the mystery out of the downloading of tuners, I just fired up the game and was asked (afrter I pressed Start) if I wanted to download it. So, you are prompted and are made aware when a new set is out.

JBHuskers
08-05-2010, 11:24 AM
Not EVERYTHING can be fixed on live tuning, that is what a patch is for....I would agree with Austin....this is good "customer service" and a direct result of fixing what the majority of the community is wanting fixed.

JBHuskers
08-05-2010, 11:25 AM
Just to take some of the mystery out of the downloading of tuners, I just fired up the game and was asked (afrter I pressed Start) if I wanted to download it. So, you are prompted and are made aware when a new set is out.

Yep .... you HAVE to do it for any online game mode, you could reject it if you dont' go online and like the tuning the way it is...but I'm not sure why you would want to do that.

Kwizzy
08-05-2010, 11:34 AM
Can't help but notice there wasn't 1 team that Improved from their original ranking in the 4 years of data he posted, even after LTP1. They all got worse, just not quite as drastically as before the tuning. I would think that some teams would have to get better. Maybe this is just the case for the teams shown, but it's just something I noticed.

steelerfan
08-05-2010, 11:37 AM
This contains ZERO substantive gameplay fixes, so please save the "awesome customer service" line.

All Austin said was that the interaction between EA and the community has been far superior to past years. I cannot disagree with that at all.

JBHuskers
08-05-2010, 11:39 AM
All Austin said was that the interaction between EA and the community has been far superior to past years. I cannot disagree with that at all.

You'd be blind to disagree with that.

jaymo76
08-05-2010, 11:44 AM
For people such as myself now four years into dynasty these changes will take a long while to work through the teams as pretty much all of the original roster is now graduated. The kickers and awareness will continue to be issues until the patch though. I will be interested to see how these changes impact the game going forward. I suspect for those of you in season 1 or 2 that things will improve much quicker.

cdj
08-05-2010, 12:17 PM
Can't help but notice there wasn't 1 team that Improved from their original ranking in the 4 years of data he posted, even after LTP1. They all got worse, just not quite as drastically as before the tuning. I would think that some teams would have to get better. Maybe this is just the case for the teams shown, but it's just something I noticed.

I think that's because by Year 5+ (probably earlier), CPU teams will have more freshman on the roster than they do with the default roster file, bringing down the OVR rating.

steelerfan
08-05-2010, 12:20 PM
I think that's because by Year 5+ (probably earlier), CPU teams will have more freshman on the roster than they do with the default roster file, bringing down the OVR rating.

I noticed what Kwizzy said too. I hadn't thought about what you're saying, cdj. Very good reasoning.

cdj
08-05-2010, 12:30 PM
Russ posted this at OS (http://www.operationsports.com/forums/2041423992-post59.html) in regards to the OVR question:

So if you look at the OVR line graphs you'll see that the recruits are still not 100% on par with the default rosters as you get to future years (but still WAY better than what we shipped with). I really didn't want to make too many drastic changes as I feel the top end (in player Overalls) is really good and if I messed with it too much that got broke.

-Russ

I'd be interested in seeing the avg. number of freshman per team in base roster versus future years and also the percentage breakdown of team ratings in base roster.

steelerfan
08-05-2010, 12:40 PM
I'd be interested in seeing the avg. number of freshman per team in base roster versus future years and also the percentage breakdown of team ratings in base roster.

I really believe your reasoning is correct and may not have been considered by Russ and the other devs. Like I said, good reasoning, brother.

gschwendt
08-05-2010, 01:01 PM
I think that's because by Year 5+ (probably earlier), CPU teams will have more freshman on the roster than they do with the default roster file, bringing down the OVR rating.
That's why you get paid the big bucks.

souljahbill
08-05-2010, 01:26 PM
The Awareness of a player does NOT affect his ability to Run Routes, Play Defense, or Block. Each of those have their own ratings that drive how good the player is:
- Route Running (RTE)
-Defense: Zone Coverage (ZCV), Man Coverage (MCV), Play Recognition (PRC) and Pursuit (PUR)
-Blocking: Run/Pass Block Footwork (RBF, PBF), Run/Pass Block Strength (RBS, PBS). And the assignment each player gets is based on the offensive play vs. the defensive play.

I guess this explains why sometimes, people don't block who I wish they would block. I remember having one run where I only needed the FS touched to take it to the house and the TE, who I was trailing, didn't go after him. He instead stopped, turned around, and went to a linebacker who I already passed up and was no longer a threat. Needless to say, I was tackled by the FS. I screamed at that TE for a least 3 plays.:D

beartide06
08-05-2010, 01:31 PM
I am extremely glad they released this as early as they did. I thought this update would be mid August. Thankfully, it came out much earlier. Can we expect uniform degradation to be in another update?

jaymo76
08-05-2010, 01:41 PM
Really sucks that the kicker situation (outside supersim) was not addressed. I just played a dynasty game against Oregon St and watched their kicker go 1-4. Also, I had to laugh watching their TE act as kickoff specialist... these auto reset depth chart issues need to be addresed immediately.

beartide06
08-05-2010, 01:45 PM
Yeah I just put in my game and it didn't even load up my rosters. Normally it has just reset after i have gotten out of online dynasty to the main menu, but now it automatically loaded up the original rosters as soon as I put in the game.

cdj
08-05-2010, 01:46 PM
I am extremely glad they released this as early as they did. I thought this update would be mid August. Thankfully, it came out much earlier. Can we expect uniform degradation to be in another update?

More gameplay items and the uni degradation is in the game update (patch) that should arrive mid-August.

ebin
08-05-2010, 02:55 PM
It's pretty amazing how much more responsive the Dev team has been this year compared to years past. That list of issues addressed hits on pretty much all the major complaints about dynasty mode made in the last few weeks. We'll see if they tuned things enough to satisfy the majority of users, but I really appreciated that Russ actually used data in his blog to illustrate the effect of the LTP. Russ has even been on OS all day answering questions, which is more than I'd be willing to do. Much appreciated! Now if only I could figure out how to get out of having to be at work for the next five or so hours, so I could test this thing out for myself!

griffin2608
08-05-2010, 03:29 PM
The Awareness of a player does NOT affect his ability to Run Routes, Play Defense, or Block. Each of those have their own ratings that drive how good the player is:
- Route Running (RTE)
-Defense: Zone Coverage (ZCV), Man Coverage (MCV), Play Recognition (PRC) and Pursuit (PUR)
-Blocking: Run/Pass Block Footwork (RBF, PBF), Run/Pass Block Strength (RBS, PBS). And the assignment each player gets is based on the offensive play vs. the defensive play.
• Every Kicker (no matter his ratings) CAN kick a 30 and under yard field goal. Granted accuracy can causes misses as well, but they do have the distance.

What does awareness affect?

How do you explain the CPU kickers not making extra points? I really did not believe this until 2013 of my dynasty and after 3 games not a single extra point made until I maxed out the fg acc slider to 100 and now its 50/50 of them bouncing a extra point off a post to go in or out.

Roy38
08-05-2010, 03:38 PM
A few thoughts for the collective consciousness:

Is there a solution from a tuning perspective to decrease the number of passes batted down by LB's without crippling them in normal pass coverage situations? For instance:

1. I have a TE running a post route that is open 10-20 yards behind the MLB. I have a small window to complete the pass between the safeties, so I throw a bullet pass. The MLB knocks the ball down.

2. I have a TE running a post route against Cover 0. The MLB is responsible for covering my TE and stays with him closely. I now throw a lob to get it over the MLB to get the completion.

If they tune this, would this disrupt his ability to to knock down the lobbed pass in tight coverage in #2?

Also, would it be possible to have EA do a complete rating breakdown? I'm sure most of us would like to know what ratings effects what skills. For example, they mentioned Awareness has no effect on anything other than Sim Logic and CPU QB reads. This makes a huge impact on who I should select to play, regardless of position. I have always leaned toward the player with better Awareness because I felt they would play smarter. Speaking of which, I also seem to recall Pass Block and Run Block are only used in Sim Logic. For those of us who play the games, Run Block Strength, Run Block Footwork, Pass Block Strength, and Pass Block Footwork are the important factors.

AustinWolv
08-05-2010, 03:53 PM
This makes a huge impact on who I should select to play, regardless of position. I have always leaned toward the player with better Awareness because I felt they would play smarter.
I agree with this and have based it the same way.
Example: I'll play an older, higher AWR CB with lesser CB-related ratings (ZCV, MCV, PRESS, etc.) if speed and accel were within reason of a younger guy who had lower AWR but higher coverage ratings. It sounds like that is not the way to go......

Thus, same questions as Roy.....

CLW
08-05-2010, 04:15 PM
Can't help but notice there wasn't 1 team that Improved from their original ranking in the 4 years of data he posted, even after LTP1. They all got worse, just not quite as drastically as before the tuning. I would think that some teams would have to get better. Maybe this is just the case for the teams shown, but it's just something I noticed.


I think that's because by Year 5+ (probably earlier), CPU teams will have more freshman on the roster than they do with the default roster file, bringing down the OVR rating.


I noticed what Kwizzy said too. I hadn't thought about what you're saying, cdj. Very good reasoning.


I noticed the same thing and didn't think about the # of Freshman. A more telling # would probably be the Average overall rating for a STARTING player for each team.

mundo
08-05-2010, 05:17 PM
The freshman thing definitely makes sense and I too would be interested to see a breakdown of ratings and how they affect things.

I OU a Beatn
08-05-2010, 05:51 PM
Not a single gameplay element in the entire thing. :D

"Wow" would be the term I'm probably looking for.

beartide06
08-05-2010, 07:23 PM
More gameplay items and the uni degradation is in the game update (patch) that should arrive mid-August.

ok thanks for the info CDJ

JBHuskers
08-05-2010, 11:35 PM
http://ll-100.ea.com/cem/u/f/GPO/easports.com/NCAA_Football_11/LiveTune/3.jpg

Part of me doesn't mind that the "elite" teams only make up 4%

cdj
08-05-2010, 11:38 PM
Part of me doesn't mind that the "elite" teams only make up 4%

That's five teams. Realistically, each season there's not even that many in contention at the end of the year for the MNC save for once in a blue moon. That's a pretty good make-up there, but I do wonder how that compares to the out of box ratings. (Haven't had a chance to count the teams up yet.) EDIT - 11 A-rated teams. I may have to count and rate out all the teams and see how they break down. The new default freshman could drop them down more than we would think.

steelerfan
08-06-2010, 12:50 AM
A more telling # would probably be the Average overall rating for a STARTING player for each team.

After cdj mentioned the dropoff possibly being related to the number of Freshman, I kinda thought that a better breakdown would be by class. Show me how Seniors rate in 2025 versus 2010 etc.

ebin
08-06-2010, 02:21 AM
I think that's because by Year 5+ (probably earlier), CPU teams will have more freshman on the roster than they do with the default roster file, bringing down the OVR rating.

So I thought about actually trying to measure this... until I realized you can't sort the rosters by class! That's crazy.

Something else that may be contributing to the decline in team rankings is over-recruiting by the CPU. When the top teams all sign 25 players a year, they're each cutting 5-7 perfectly serviceable players that could otherwise be improving lower prestige teams.

AustinWolv
08-06-2010, 07:49 AM
Something else that may be contributing to the decline in team rankings is over-recruiting by the CPU. When the top teams all sign 25 players a year, they're each cutting 5-7 perfectly serviceable players that could otherwise be improving lower prestige teams.
So it is accurate to the SEC!
http://oversigning.com/testing/

steelerfan
08-06-2010, 08:09 AM
Yeah, I've always wanted to see Transfers be a few weeks (like offseason recruiting) with Cuts in those weeks too. So guys who get cut could help someone else and not just disappear.

ebin
08-06-2010, 01:57 PM
So it is accurate to the SEC!
http://oversigning.com/testing/

True, lol.


Yeah, I've always wanted to see Transfers be a few weeks (like offseason recruiting) with Cuts in those weeks too. So guys who get cut could help someone else and not just disappear.

Exactly. It would be one thing if those players could transfer to another team and contribute, but those guys just disappear, further diluting the talent pool. I think they also need to significantly increase the number of 2* prospects available each year. That, or give the 1* guys skills that are more like the 2* prospects.

CLW
08-06-2010, 02:40 PM
The Awareness of a player does NOT affect his ability to Run Routes, Play Defense, or Block. Each of those have their own ratings that drive how good the player is:
- Route Running (RTE)
-Defense: Zone Coverage (ZCV), Man Coverage (MCV), Play Recognition (PRC) and Pursuit (PUR)
-Blocking: Run/Pass Block Footwork (RBF, PBF), Run/Pass Block Strength (RBS, PBS). And the assignment each player gets is based on the offensive play vs. the defensive play.
• Every Kicker (no matter his ratings) CAN kick a 30 and under yard field goal. Granted accuracy can causes misses as well, but they do have the distance.

What does awareness affect?

How do you explain the CPU kickers not making extra points? I really did not believe this until 2013 of my dynasty and after 3 games not a single extra point made until I maxed out the fg acc slider to 100 and now its 50/50 of them bouncing a extra point off a post to go in or out.

That's a good question. I always thought the AWR rating affected whether a CPU controlled player missed an assignment, blew a route, etc... Now that that apparently isn't the case I can't think of what (if anything) AWR affects.

JeffHCross
08-06-2010, 09:43 PM
Based on what I've seen this year, and previous years, I cannot believe that was an all-inclusive list of what AWR affects. There's simply no way.

ebin
08-06-2010, 10:48 PM
Based on what I've seen this year, and previous years, I cannot believe that was an all-inclusive list of what AWR affects. There's simply no way.

I tend to agree with you, but that doesn't explain why Russ wouldn't: (a) know, or (b) want us to know, everything that AWR affects.

rhombic21
08-06-2010, 11:40 PM
I can definitively say that that isn't all that AWR affects.

I've been unhappy with the coverage schemes and blitz packages that are in the Dime Normal formation, and was essentially trying to find a way to use some of my favorite 4-3 plays, only with 6 DBs in the game. So my bright idea was to set up a system where on third and long or in obvious passing situations, I would sometimes call a Dime Normal play in the huddle, and then audible down into some of my favorite 4-3 plays before the play. Essentially this causes the two slot CBs to line up as linebackers, but most of the time the differences between where linebackers in a 4-3 align versus where slot DBs in dime normal align is negligible, so it generally works out well enough. And obviously I'm not expecting these guys to stop the run like linebackers or anything, and generally going to be using them in coverage or as blitzers off the edge, so this isn't the kind of thing I'd throw out against a 2 TE set and expect to be successful with on an every-down basis.

The problem is that if you audible down, the game now treats your slot CBs as though they are playing linebacker, and so their AWR takes a huge hit. What then happens is that these players are much worse in coverage (particularly man to man) and that they will also miss a lot of tackles -- even if they have a free shot at the QB they will often times miss the tackle. Theoretically, if AWR didn't matter for anything other than the small number of things that the DEVs mention, then a DB in man to man coverage should play exactly the same whether the game thinks he's subbed in at LB or playing his natural CB position. And the same is true for zone coverage or blitzing. But since that's not the case, and since AWR is the only attribute that changes based on the position shift, then it has to be the drop in AWR that causes the problem.

JeffHCross
08-07-2010, 12:01 AM
I tend to agree with you, but that doesn't explain why Russ wouldn't: (a) knowThat doesn't explain it, but simply logic does. Russ isn't a developer, so he (most likely) doesn't have hands-on access to the code. So he'd be relying on either design documents or second-hand knowledge to tell us what AWR actually controls. The first of those is easily incorrect, or just not all-encompassing. The second of those is just as easily wrong, because unless they have someone around who actually wrote the original code (unlikely), they'd be relying on either their memory or a quick search.

It also could be a matter of interpretation. AWR may not affect my DB's ability to play coverage directly. That may be handled by MCV and ZCV. But AWR may deal with getting him conscious enough to be in the right position, and that would have a huge influence on his ability to play defense.

rhombic21
08-07-2010, 12:05 AM
My sense is that there's some kind of threshold effect where AWR really doesn't matter very much if a player is above some reasonable level of AWR, so in terms of differentiating between two players at the same position then it probably doesn't come into play that much. I don't know that there's a meaningful difference between a 75 and a 90, or at least that this difference would be worth any kind of significant tradeoff in other ratings categories. But when you start playing guys out of position and thus seeing some really low AWR's (in the 30s and 40s), then it matters.

JeffHCross
08-07-2010, 12:10 AM
Agreed. The DBs I've seen make bad plays are always my two freshmen, who are both 40 AWR. They do have lower MCV/ZCV than anyone else, but not significantly lower.

JBHuskers
08-07-2010, 12:25 AM
Agreed. The DBs I've seen make bad plays are always my two freshmen, who are both 40 AWR. They do have lower MCV/ZCV than anyone else, but not significantly lower.

It's even worse in Madden with DB's making bad plays.

jaymo76
08-07-2010, 12:31 AM
It's even worse in Madden with DB's making bad plays.

Really? I thought I had read that WR/DB interaction was greatly improved in Madden this year??? That sucks!

JBHuskers
08-07-2010, 12:34 AM
Really? I thought I had read that WR/DB interaction was greatly improved in Madden this year??? That sucks!

They are pretty good, but there can be times where the CPU will beat you deep if you have an average corner. Seems to happen a decent amount. It's not overkill, and for a change it's the CPU burning you, not the other way around.

AustinWolv
08-07-2010, 09:54 AM
Interesting, so the positional assignment is directing the individual's AWR perhaps. I can see how that would be organized by a gamer devs logic, but that is very strange compared to what would happen in real world. I can also see how they did that to keep people from putting DBs and such as DEs for speed rush tactics.

rhombic21
08-07-2010, 10:36 AM
Yeah, that's my best guess, that it was some kind of way to prevent people from playing people WAY out of position. But theoretically, if they made it so that things like pass rush moves, block shedding, strength, etc.... mattered (and it seems to me like they do already), then there wouldn't really be a need for the extra penalty. Because if you played LBs on the DL or DBs at LBs then you should theoretically get run all over (especially given the revamped run blocking AI).

JeffHCross
08-07-2010, 10:38 AM
Agreed. A CB playing OLB shouldn't be any worse at tackling than he already is ... and they already are pretty bad.

morsdraconis
08-07-2010, 11:02 AM
Agreed. A CB playing OLB shouldn't be any worse at tackling than he already is ... and they already are pretty bad.

Well, maybe they are going by the logic of a CB making a tackle on the outside is usually tackling WRs (who normally have less break tackle skills and more evasive skills) but inside at the LB spot, you're tackling HBs and FBs more often (who normally have higher break tackle chances) so it's their way of not only trying to shy you away from moving people to different positions to prevent cheesy stuff (the online community getting their wish) but also trying to two fold the fact that most CBs would get annihilated trying to play LB because they lack fundamental tackling skills and the body weight to play the position effectively (their way of compensating for the fact that body weight still doesn't play the role that it should in the game).

Or it could be something as simple as a previous workaround to having their be some type of body weight taken into account before their jump to Locomotion now.

JeffHCross
08-07-2010, 11:08 AM
Right ... but if you run the ball outside, CBs aren't very good at tackling FBs and HBs at their regular position. No reason to hamper that even more.

steelerfan
08-07-2010, 03:26 PM
I'm not following what you guys are saying. When you do a position change, the player's AWR drops (as I think it should). What are you guys saying that I'm not grasping?

JeffHCross
08-07-2010, 03:34 PM
That other stuff happens because of the AWR drop. Like more missed tackles, inability to stay with a man in coverage, etc.

But, according to Russ's blog, AWR does not affect a player's ability to "Play Defense".

rhombic21
08-07-2010, 03:37 PM
Well, maybe they are going by the logic of a CB making a tackle on the outside is usually tackling WRs (who normally have less break tackle skills and more evasive skills) but inside at the LB spot, you're tackling HBs and FBs more often (who normally have higher break tackle chances) so it's their way of not only trying to shy you away from moving people to different positions to prevent cheesy stuff (the online community getting their wish) but also trying to two fold the fact that most CBs would get annihilated trying to play LB because they lack fundamental tackling skills and the body weight to play the position effectively (their way of compensating for the fact that body weight still doesn't play the role that it should in the game).

Or it could be something as simple as a previous workaround to having their be some type of body weight taken into account before their jump to Locomotion now.

To be clear, I noticed them missing tackles on the QB. Like they'd have a free shot at him on a blitz and would miss the tackle almost every time.

JeffHCross
08-07-2010, 03:39 PM
Whereas, speaking from experience, if you run a nickel blitz and he has a free shot, he hits it.

steelerfan
08-07-2010, 03:48 PM
That other stuff happens because of the AWR drop. Like more missed tackles, inability to stay with a man in coverage, etc.

But, according to Russ's blog, AWR does not affect a player's ability to "Play Defense".

OK, thanks.

I seem to remember them saying (I believe before '10) that AWR would have a greater impact than in the past. I know last year I started (and still do) letting AWR carry alot of weight in terms of my depth chart. If 2 guys are close in OVR, AWR wins every time.

I agree that this must be some sort of mistake by Russ. If AWR doesn't matter for the things he mentions, what else is there? I've always looked at AWR as "Football IQ" - the instinctive ability to be in the right place at the right time.

morsdraconis
08-07-2010, 04:34 PM
To be clear, I noticed them missing tackles on the QB. Like they'd have a free shot at him on a blitz and would miss the tackle almost every time.

Well then, I think it speaks to the point (either in this thread or in another) the conversation about awareness having a much larger impact than just sim stats and such as they have been quoted as saying.

JeffHCross
08-07-2010, 08:31 PM
Which is the entire conversation we're having :D

ebin
08-08-2010, 12:55 AM
That doesn't explain it, but simply logic does. Russ isn't a developer, so he (most likely) doesn't have hands-on access to the code. So he'd be relying on either design documents or second-hand knowledge to tell us what AWR actually controls. The first of those is easily incorrect, or just not all-encompassing. The second of those is just as easily wrong, because unless they have someone around who actually wrote the original code (unlikely), they'd be relying on either their memory or a quick search.

It also could be a matter of interpretation. AWR may not affect my DB's ability to play coverage directly. That may be handled by MCV and ZCV. But AWR may deal with getting him conscious enough to be in the right position, and that would have a huge influence on his ability to play defense.

Good points. It's easy to forget just how complex the code underlying the game really is. It's unfortunate, though, to the extent that Russ is a de facto spokesman for the game (and he knows it), that he'd say AWR only affects QBS. Can't say I blame him though. He'd get eaten alive on the forums if he said he didn't know.

JeffHCross
08-08-2010, 02:38 AM
Well, as we've proven with this discussion, he gets eaten alive no matter what he says. It's unfortunate, but that's the reality of PR.

ebin
08-09-2010, 03:24 PM
Indeed. It's unfortunate for him, but also for those of us who would actually take advantage of the opportunity to have a thoughtful, rational discussion with someone who works closely with the game. Of course, then I remember that this is the internet, and as you've said, there's no room for either of those things. :)

Rudy
08-09-2010, 09:26 PM
A few thoughts for the collective consciousness:

Is there a solution from a tuning perspective to decrease the number of passes batted down by LB's without crippling them in normal pass coverage situations? For instance:

1. I have a TE running a post route that is open 10-20 yards behind the MLB. I have a small window to complete the pass between the safeties, so I throw a bullet pass. The MLB knocks the ball down.

2. I have a TE running a post route against Cover 0. The MLB is responsible for covering my TE and stays with him closely. I now throw a lob to get it over the MLB to get the completion.

If they tune this, would this disrupt his ability to to knock down the lobbed pass in tight coverage in #2?

Also, would it be possible to have EA do a complete rating breakdown? I'm sure most of us would like to know what ratings effects what skills. For example, they mentioned Awareness has no effect on anything other than Sim Logic and CPU QB reads. This makes a huge impact on who I should select to play, regardless of position. I have always leaned toward the player with better Awareness because I felt they would play smarter. Speaking of which, I also seem to recall Pass Block and Run Block are only used in Sim Logic. For those of us who play the games, Run Block Strength, Run Block Footwork, Pass Block Strength, and Pass Block Footwork are the important factors.

In NCAA '09 and earlier versions the knockdown slider actually affected the DBs ability to defend the ball. Want less pass deflections? Drop the knockdown slider. The dev team tried to say it was related to tipped balls at the line by DL but it was properly used to adjust for DB play. They need to bring back a pass deflection slider that we can adjust to fix this ourselves. Right now we are at the mercy of what the developers want.

Rudy
08-09-2010, 09:28 PM
I will say that if the patch loosens the man-to-man coverage up a bit I won't be complaining. While the bad defenses can be burned, aggressive defenses with good corners can use the psychic defense to really shut down a passing game. It is nice to see good defense now and then but it can certainly frustrate me when they blitz and a one on one situation can't be exploited properly enough. Perhaps my stink fest in game I played tonight is tainting my views as I sucked at passing.

baseballplyrmvp
08-11-2010, 05:05 PM
i wish they would tweak the pass blocking logic to allow double team blocks on passing plays... a qb should be able to have protection all day with 7 blockers against a 3 man rush.