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View Full Version : Should Madden 11's GameFlow feature be in NCAA 12?



jaymo76
07-30-2010, 10:06 PM
With the release of the Madden 11 demo most of us have had a chance to play with the GAMEFLOW feature. Generally speaking there are a lot of diverse views about it though a number of people really into football gaming don't seem to like it at all. There is a sharp divide between those people who see the feature as "true sim" versus "loss of user control."

Really, there are two fundamental questions here.

1. Should Gameflow be in NCAA FOOTBALL 12?

2. Will Gameflow be in NCAA FOOTBALL 12?

From personal experience I am somewhat conflicted as to whether I want to see this as an OPTIONAL USER FEATURE in NCAA 12. After playing two Madden demo games and using the feature I really, really, really disliked it. I thought a lot of the play calling was poor/questionable and I was non-stop audibling to find plays that I like. I played the demo twice and walked away thoroughly disgusted with the game and the feature.

However, today I had some down time from the family and so I turned on the Madden 11 demo. I didn't want to play a game, I just wanted to play around with Indy's Gameflow. I must have spent a good 35 minutes re-creating Indy's offensive playbook. I erased all of the pre-set plays and created a 100% new plan from scratch... basically I made Indy a run first (I formation) on 1st and 2nd down and a shotgun pass for 3rd down. I made a plan based on how I like to call games. Then I decided to see how it would play. After three games with Gameflow enabled (including the coordinators voice and words) I can honestly say that I NOW LIKE THE FEATURE!

Yes, there is less user control; yes you have less plays at your disposal; yes the cpu sometimes makes poor decisions BUT most importantly, YES... it actually did feel like a real football game. It took me back to my days playing high school football... coach called in the play and the QB explained it. The other thing I did this time is call very few aubiles (except on D). I forced myself to execute plays that I would rarely ever choose and I found out that I could execute a lot of the plays really well. It has made me look at my playcalling in an entirely new fashion and that's a really good thing IMO.

So to answer my question, yes I want gameflow as an OPTIONAL FEATURE for NCAA 12. If the NCAA team were to bring in real coaches and coordinators this feature's potential could be amazing. Now to my second question... will NCAA 12 have gameflow? No, I don't think so... just look at the negativity thus far from traditional football gamers such as you and I. For those of you who don't like the feature, give it a try again. Design 100% from scratch and make your coordinator call the game as you want him to. Take the time to create a full plan and then play a few games. I really think a lot of you will like it. Trust me, I hated the feature at first but now I'm a believer... you might be too?

Anyone else been converted? What's the general consensus out there for this feature and it's possible inclusion into NCAA 12?

JeffHCross
07-30-2010, 10:32 PM
As an optional feature, absolutely.

And I believe it will be in NCAA 12, or NCAA 13. NCAA 12 might need a defensive focus after the feature set of NCAA 11, so we might not see another admittedly offensive-advantage-first feature until NCAA 13.

Funny thing is, I knew I'd like it as soon as they announced it. Though I also knew I'd need to make my own plan ;)

JBHuskers
07-30-2010, 10:34 PM
Yeah I'd say it belongs. I won't use it, but it belongs.

rhombic21
07-30-2010, 10:54 PM
No, there are a ton of other new items that need to be added before this, not to mention the need for them to get the existing features to simply work correctly.

Cipher 8
07-30-2010, 11:51 PM
Much rather they put in gameplan and I dont want them to change the game much from the way it is now towards how shitty madden is, I've played the demo

sl8b
07-31-2010, 01:01 AM
My only gripe with it is I just want to see the play art on the screen before I'm on the field. At least show me the play from the playbook before I'm picking a player, making adjustments and then running the play. Other than that, I really like it and look forward to a more polished version of it next year.

steelerfan
07-31-2010, 02:40 AM
If I'm feeling lazy, I'll just use Ask Coach. At least that gives me a selection of plays and not 1 I have to use. I see things like this and NCAA's new playcall interface as re-inventing the wheel.

Rudy
07-31-2010, 01:02 PM
There are so many other things that deserve to be in the game that this should be at the absolute bottom. The play recomendations the game uses are fine right now. If you don't like them, call your own game. Before any feature like this gets added I want to see in game saves, multiple camera angles, coaching carousel, discipline in dynasty mode etc.

The Madden team should be criticized over wasting so much time on this feature. Who asked for this? There are so many features (like improved franchise offline and online) that people want in the game and they choose to implement something nobody asked for? Seriously.

skipwondah33
07-31-2010, 01:07 PM
I don't think it should, simply because QB's don't have earpieces in their helmets. Thats the only reason I think its prety cool in Madden because in the NFL QB's have that ability. Kind of puts you inside the game

JeffHCross
07-31-2010, 01:26 PM
There are so many features (like improved franchise offline and online) that people want in the game and they choose to implement something nobody asked for? Seriously.We really shouldn't treat wishlists like a menu that the developer is going to order off of. They must have seen something in their marketing or audience (maybe it was the casuals, not the hardcore?) that called for implementing this feature.

Personally, I like it. Not the Gameflow aspect, at least not for NCAA (as skip said, we don't have headsets, so all the audio is out), but I would love a way to influence the Ask Coach playcalling (i.e. Gameplan).

It's not something anybody specifically asked for, but, personally, I spend a lot of time working on play call sheets, so it'd be a welcome addition.

skipwondah33
07-31-2010, 01:47 PM
It's not something anybody specifically asked for, but, personally, I spend a lot of time working on play call sheets, so it'd be a welcome addition.

And this is why I liked the addition of Gameflow. People have been working on play call sheets for years in the leagues I have been in. This was a welcome addition for those.

rhombic21
07-31-2010, 05:46 PM
How so? It doesn't give them anything that they can't already do by putting together their playcall sheets offline.

Until they get basic functionality in the game for things like custom playbooks, a play creator, more realistic coverage audibles and formation shifts on defense, and a special teams framework that isn't terrible, not to mention a whole range of things in dynasty mode like an AD mode, coaching carousel, there is no reason to add this.

And I SERIOUSLY doubt that any casual fans are going to be drawn like a feature such as gameflow. You really think casual Joe is sitting down and putting together a detailed gameplan?

Rudy
07-31-2010, 06:01 PM
Gameflow would be a LOT better if it suggested 3 plays from your play list. Head coaches will still overrule play calls from time to time and I view myself as the OC. Even though you can choose plays you like for certain situations, only giving ONE option is flat out crappy. The game should pop up 3 plays for you to pick from.

skipwondah33
07-31-2010, 09:01 PM
How so? It doesn't give them anything that they can't already do by putting together their playcall sheets offline.

Until they get basic functionality in the game for things like custom playbooks, a play creator, more realistic coverage audibles and formation shifts on defense, and a special teams framework that isn't terrible, not to mention a whole range of things in dynasty mode like an AD mode, coaching carousel, there is no reason to add this.

And I SERIOUSLY doubt that any casual fans are going to be drawn like a feature such as gameflow. You really think casual Joe is sitting down and putting together a detailed gameplan?

well first because not everyone wants to create a a playcall sheet to design a charted gameplan. I'd the feature is included in the game there is no reason to write down or memorize plays.

And the casual fan could just use the feature as is without gameplan set up byletting the Cpu select the plays. Since obviously the casual and hardcore fans of the game don't know how to open up their damn playbook online, the Madden team dumb it down...then the hardcore fans complained anyway.

sl8b
07-31-2010, 11:27 PM
Well, IIRC, it was John Madden that asked for the gameflow. Wasn't his reasoning, that coaches don't have their entire playbooks at their disposal for each play.

jaymo76
08-01-2010, 01:07 AM
Gameflow would be a LOT better if it suggested 3 plays from your play list. Head coaches will still overrule play calls from time to time and I view myself as the OC. Even though you can choose plays you like for certain situations, only giving ONE option is flat out crappy. The game should pop up 3 plays for you to pick from.

I do like how you can access your full playbook which includes all of your gameflow plays... that really speeds things up as you have all of your core plays listed in a quick, managable way.

Sinister
08-09-2010, 09:55 AM
my only beef is with adding this there needs to be a serious upgrade to the defensive side of the ball before this could happen . i like the gameflow on madden and gameplanning. but defensive packages and number of plays needs to be upgraged not only that presnap stuff like playing inside out , bumpin slots or individual wr . there is so much more for defense to upgrade before we should monkey around with gameflow.i feel the same for madden too.

jaymo76
08-09-2010, 01:16 PM
my only beef is with adding this there needs to be a serious upgrade to the defensive side of the ball before this could happen . i like the gameflow on madden and gameplanning. but defensive packages and number of plays needs to be upgraged not only that presnap stuff like playing inside out , bumpin slots or individual wr . there is so much more for defense to upgrade before we should monkey around with gameflow.i feel the same for madden too.

The defensive side of the ball is an issue. I agree. However, I will say that even though I think the D coordinator calls the wrong play far too often, I have really begun to look at the types of plays I run on D and ask myself... why do I run these? I primarily run a 4-3 Man press and I set up my playbook accordingly. Well I had ZERO sacks and very little pressure... it didn't matter what the coordinator called it was my fault for my play selection... I didn't have any blitz packages or zone press coverages to help my D line out. As strange as it sounds, I am becoming a better player via gameflow/planning. Before I used to call the play and run it. Now I take the time to think about how to best execute said play. It's a real philosohy shift for me but I like it.

Coachdenz
08-15-2010, 09:28 PM
nope I don't want Madden's left overs, i want something new

Rudy
08-15-2010, 09:32 PM
Spend that time improving the CPU play calling! Forget about the human play calling changes. We can learn our playbooks. I want the cpu to learn not to run the option with a slow QB or to run certain plays if they keep getting shut down by me.

JBHuskers
08-15-2010, 10:36 PM
Yeah it's clear that GameFlow is for casual gamers, not hardcore ones. I hated it in April, warmed up to it when I first got my hands on a retail copy, then after four or five games got tired of it.

jaymo76
08-16-2010, 01:03 AM
I think it's far too early in it's development cycle to be too critical. This IMO is only the beginning of the "feature." There needs to be more specific sections/situations, it needs to have formation subs built into it, etc. I suspect it will continue to get a lot more attention over the next few years.

Jayrah
08-16-2010, 02:10 AM
I think gameflow is a great Madden/Pro Football feature. It wouldn't be received well by the ncaa community though I don't think. It would imo go over as badly as season showdown on the whole. First things first, we need coaches. After that, maybe a slice of gameflow could be integrated, but I hate the idea overall. I mean it's basically engrained in the game with Offensive Strategies and Play calling from real life tendancies for the cpu, just upgrade that some more, and I am more than happy.

CLW
08-16-2010, 09:11 AM
Someone correct me as I'm wrong as I haven't even played Madden 11, however the impression it left me with was it was a redone version of "Ask Madden" / "Ask Corso" with the caveat that the user can have some control by game planning.

If that is the case I would be fine with as an addition (assuming we have the ability to turn it off/on). Let the users decide how they want to play. Is it a feature I'll use very much? No probably not. However, Coach Mode guys may find that enjoyable.

JBHuskers
08-16-2010, 10:11 AM
Someone correct me as I'm wrong as I haven't even played Madden 11, however the impression it left me with was it was a redone version of "Ask Madden" / "Ask Corso" with the caveat that the user can have some control by game planning.

If that is the case I would be fine with as an addition (assuming we have the ability to turn it off/on). Let the users decide how they want to play. Is it a feature I'll use very much? No probably not. However, Coach Mode guys may find that enjoyable.

It's more streamlined as the play is automatically called, but you have the option to hit :ps3sq: / :360x: to get to the full playcall screen at any play within the game...which makes things a little bit better. The coordinator also gives some good insight into the play and what to look for. It's a good feature, but getting usage out of it will be dependant on taste.

rhombic21
08-16-2010, 10:44 AM
I might go for a way to basically organize a playcall sheet that would be a type of playcalling strategy/playcalling menu.

So I could put all of the plays that I want for a certain situation into a "play package" of some kind (preferrably something that I could name myself) and then have those playcall packages come up instead of the formation view.

Like on defense, it would be cool to be able to essentially create a playcall folder with all of the plays that I use against 5 wide, or against other formations, or for certain scenarios.

I don't want the computer to call a play for me. I don't even need it to give me suggestions. But I do like the idea of being able to essentially put together a playcall sheet to help me be more organized during the game.

jaymo76
08-16-2010, 11:41 AM
What I have been doing with the madden demo is creating a gamepla and then using that gameplan exclusively from the full playbook. For me it's the best of both worlds: I put all the plays I like in one section and then it's a quick, easy scroll to access them (based on each scenario eg 2nd and long).

cdj
08-16-2010, 04:41 PM
I started playing Madden with GameFlow, turned it off, but now use it for Madden Ultimate Team games. While I haven't completely set it for regular games (can't use custom GamePlan in MUT), I find it beneficial for the sake of running plays I would not otherwise and improving my timing on pass routes I tend to not utilize very often.

After some time with it, I like that it helps the game go quicker but I can X through cutscenes in NCAA to save time. I like rhombic's idea where I would see all of the plays I have selected for a certain situation versus the CPU picking one. Maybe put in an option to default to a CPU picked play for casual gamers (and to match Madden), but an option to have all marked plays show up for selection.

Rudy
08-16-2010, 04:52 PM
I might go for a way to basically organize a playcall sheet that would be a type of playcalling strategy/playcalling menu.

So I could put all of the plays that I want for a certain situation into a "play package" of some kind (preferrably something that I could name myself) and then have those playcall packages come up instead of the formation view.

Like on defense, it would be cool to be able to essentially create a playcall folder with all of the plays that I use against 5 wide, or against other formations, or for certain scenarios.

I don't want the computer to call a play for me. I don't even need it to give me suggestions. But I do like the idea of being able to essentially put together a playcall sheet to help me be more organized during the game.

Exactly. That's why I didn't like gameflow in the demo. I hate the fact it just picks one off my playsheet and forces me to run it. Being able to put together a playsheet to remove the crappy plays from my playbook would have been a lot better imo.

cdj
08-16-2010, 04:53 PM
Poll added:

Should the GameFlow & Game-Plan feature from Madden NFL 11 be featured in NCAA Football 12?

- Yes
- No
- Perhaps a modified version (explain below)
- Indifferent; Haven't played Madden 11

rhombic21
08-16-2010, 05:09 PM
My problem with this kind of poll is that you aren't really asking the right question. In reality, everything's a trade-off. Adding one thing to the game means that they won't have time to add something else. So in the abstract, I guess I'm somewhere between completely indifferent to mildly interested in having some gameflow "like" feature. But if you start asking me to list the things that I'd rather have gameflow instead of, and that's a pretty short list.

Ultimately, I think it's impossible to state whether I'd like to see it added to the game without having a good understanding of what would end up on the cutting room floor as a result.

Rudy
08-17-2010, 05:29 AM
I voted no because I didn't really like it and there are a lot of other things I would want the time spent on like in game saves.

JBHuskers
08-17-2010, 08:15 AM
I voted based on the overall picture rather than my wants and needs. For the overall casual gamer it should be in because it's a very beneficial tool to them.

skipwondah33
08-17-2010, 09:38 AM
After some time with it, I like that it helps the game go quicker but I can X through cutscenes in NCAA to save time. I like rhombic's idea where I would see all of the plays I have selected for a certain situation versus the CPU picking one. Maybe put in an option to default to a CPU picked play for casual gamers (and to match Madden), but an option to have all marked plays show up for selection.

You know you have that option in Madden right? You can create a gameplan, turn off gameflow at the beginning of a game and you still will have your gameplan available to you.

Instead of the CPU picking the play, you actually pick plays from your set up gameplan. The plays will show up according to the down and distance and for which you hvae set up.


Another key note about gameplans is that you can use them with or without GameFlow. Let's say you want to play with the old style play-calling screen. If you do, the "Ask Madden" option is actually totally replaced with "My Gameplan", which then gives you all your pre-planned plays right there for you in each game situation
http://ll-100.ea.com/cem/u/f/GPO/easports.com/madden/Madden11/blogs/gf4.jpg

CLW
08-17-2010, 09:53 AM
You know you have that option in Madden right? You can create a gameplan, turn off gameflow at the beginning of a game and you still will have your gameplan available to you.

Instead of the CPU picking the play, you actually pick plays from your set up gameplan. The plays will show up according to the down and distance and for which you hvae set up.

Wow I didn't know that. LOL damn you Skip I keep going back and forth on whether to pick this up and do an offline franchise. Now I'm leaning on picking it up. If I read that correctly the "My Gameplan" plays will change every play based on down/distance/situation? If so, I'm really thinking about going to pick up Madden 11 today if the gameplay is as least as solid as NCAA 11.

skipwondah33
08-17-2010, 09:56 AM
Yes you set up your gameplan prior. ie what you would like to do on 1st and 10, 2nd and 5, etc (choose your plays) Then every 1st and 10 or 2nd and 5 when you hit Gameplan in the coventional playbook screen, the plays that you set up will be available for you to choose and not the CPU.

cdj
08-17-2010, 09:59 AM
You know you have that option in Madden right? You can create a gameplan, turn off gameflow at the beginning of a game and you still will have your gameplan available to you.


Ahhh, I saw that but never looked at it too closely. Now I'm going to have to go back and give GamePlan a whole new try!

JBHuskers
08-17-2010, 10:02 AM
You know you have that option in Madden right? You can create a gameplan, turn off gameflow at the beginning of a game and you still will have your gameplan available to you.

Instead of the CPU picking the play, you actually pick plays from your set up gameplan. The plays will show up according to the down and distance and for which you hvae set up.

I either picked too similar plays, or didn't develop a deep enough game plan as it was calling the same play too much. I need to mess around with it some more.

skipwondah33
08-17-2010, 10:04 AM
Ahhh, I saw that but never looked at it too closely. Now I'm going to have to go back and give GamePlan a whole new try!

Yeah definitely helps things out. I'm no in favor of Gameflow and not going to use it because I prefer the "old" method myself

We are actually having a big discussion about it in my Madden community because a select few want to use Gameflow but it changes the game for their opponents, ie having to hit :ps3sq: before every single play and not having ample time to call a defensive formation.

So I proposed using the feature this way so both sides could have what they wanted.

rhombic21
08-17-2010, 12:02 PM
The thing is, I didn't just want it for down and distance. I was thinking about things like plays to beat certain coverages on offense (or running plays against certain fronts), and defensive plays/formations to use against certain personnel groupings on defense. So for instance I could go through and put all the passing plays I would use to beat cover 3 in one folder. Same for cover 2 and for man to man, and then probably one for zone blitz and one for man blitz. And on defense I'd have things like plays to use against jumbo/run formations and plays to use against 5 WR formations and spread.

The idea would be that you could customize the folders and then the folders would basically be something that you could scroll through, kind of like the way formations are.

Sinister
08-18-2010, 04:39 PM
after i set up my gameplanning on madden and ran it . it did well for me i went back into the playbook a couple of times but overall i liked it. defense doesn't have enough options for me , but it did calll a good game. one thing i learned is that you have to have the plays weighted right if not you'll get plays called you don't want.

jaymo76
08-21-2010, 01:44 AM
after i set up my gameplanning on madden and ran it . it did well for me i went back into the playbook a couple of times but overall i liked it. defense doesn't have enough options for me , but it did calll a good game. one thing i learned is that you have to have the plays weighted right if not you'll get plays called you don't want.

Yup weighting is huge. And I agree with the D. There should be more options re: situation. Overall though iw uodl love to see this as an option for 12.