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View Full Version : When might we expect tuner sets to be released?



rhombic21
07-22-2010, 06:40 PM
Just wondering, as the game is pretty stale online given the current state of man coverage and run defense. Generally speaking, how long does it take for EA to put these things out, and how many of them do they release in a given year?

cdj
07-22-2010, 06:50 PM
Technically, they haven't even discussed them publicly in great detail yet - which is surprising. However, from what they stated at the Community Event, they can develop and put out a tuner set in about three days time (maybe less). They develop it, have it go through in-house testing, then push it out. There's no set number they can or will do....they could do 1 or they could do 100. I was under the impression we will likely see a solid number of them throughout the year when warranted.

rhombic21
07-22-2010, 07:39 PM
Has there been any indication that they might release one soon? I know that any kind of second patch is probably 2 months away at best, but I was kind of hopeful that we might get a tuner set sometime soon to address some of the issues that the community seems to have reached a basic consensus about, particularly with regards to online play.

cdj
07-22-2010, 07:42 PM
I haven't heard anything about it. I figure they'll have a blog or info on it relatively soon followed by a set shortly thereafter.

jaymo76
07-22-2010, 08:05 PM
I hope EA provides as list as to what exactly can be tuned...

JeffHCross
07-22-2010, 08:54 PM
While I've seen nothing from the NCAA team about it, I have some experience with Tuners thanks to NHL. Here's my opinion on it ... (for what it's worth, the first NHL Tuner Set was released before the game hit retail, though NHL didn't have a Day One patch):


Tuner sets are essentially tweaks to the sliders or back-end attribute-related code (like acceleration, agility, etc) that can be made, essentially on the fly, by Tiburon. It doesn't have to go through the patch process, which is the real advantage (companies are limited to how many times they can patch titles without paying a fee). No patch process means no approval from Sony/M$ needed, so it gets to the consoles much faster.

Here's a list of the changes made by one of the NHL Tuner sets. Will give you an idea of the breadth of issues they were able to tweak: http://www.easports.com/blogs/inthecrease/post/slug/tuner-set-v104-released

Based on last year's NHL tuners and patches, I think repairs to the AI overall would have to wait for a patch. NHL had a "money play" strategy that almost always resulted in a goal, and that wasn't fixed until the patch. However, that was because they had to patch the goalie to specifically guard against that play.

If there were specific pass plays that are eating up the AI coverage (i.e. 5 WR Trey, Four Verticals), then I think we might have to wait for the patch. Overall AI tweaks (tunes) may not. I don't know for sure, but that's my feeling.

The most interesting thing about the NHL Tuner sets was that version 1 (v1.01) was released before launch, based on feedback from the demo. That may be partly why the NCAA 11 demo was released relatively early.

I just looked at the first two NHL updates, and they didn't specifically name AI, though they did say they tuned the goal and tuned puck control. For NCAA 11, similar tunes could be to the awareness of the defense on pass plays (pretty similar to goalie, I would imagine) and to ball control (maybe we'll get the fumbles tuned?)

All in all, the Tuner Sets are an advantage. Whether or not we see a huge difference remains to be seen, but the feature is significant. It at least allows for the possibility of tweaks that previously had to wait for a patch.

One final example ... here's the list of features from NCAA 10's Patch #2 (http://www.pastapadre.com/2009/08/24/ncaa-football-10-patch-2-details). I've included in the quote below the items I think would be covered by the Tuner Sets. (EA made it really obvious by using "tuned" in the patch notes [laugh])

Tuned holding chances on Field Goals and Extra Points
Fixed a couple pass coverage issues with Wild Cat plays (Maybe in Tuner. Maybe.)
Tuned the chuck success chances to favor more neutral results. Wins and Losses are extreme and should occur less for both the offense and defense
AI Tackle slider is now more effective
Lead Blocking tweaks to fix some cases of pulling lineman ignoring defenders
Tuned the CPU ball carrier to make some smarter choices
Tuned player switching logic to give a more appropriate player
Tuned how effective the slant route for running backs out of the backfield was
Tuned how far away diving sacks will start from

jaymo76
07-23-2010, 04:06 PM
Out of curiosity would a tuning set be able to increase the amount and frequency of stat banners/overlays or is that more of a patch thing???

gschwendt
07-23-2010, 04:37 PM
Out of curiosity would a tuning set be able to increase the amount and frequency of stat banners/overlays or is that more of a patch thing???
Most likely that would be a patch thing but there is a small possibility that it could be a tuner.

JeffHCross
07-24-2010, 12:41 AM
Out of curiosity would a tuning set be able to increase the amount and frequency of stat banners/overlays or is that more of a patch thing???Frequency could probably be a tuner, but they would have had to set it up that way. One of the downsides of tuner sets is that values have to be designed to be accessed that way, rather than through a patch.

rhombic21
07-27-2010, 04:25 PM
The game has now been out for 2 weeks and there's no word of an updated tuner set? I'm pretty disappointed in the way they have utilized (not utilized) this feature.

jaymo76
07-27-2010, 05:04 PM
The game has now been out for 2 weeks and there's no word of an updated tuner set? I'm pretty disappointed in the way they have utilized (not utilized) this feature.

You get the feeling like we won't be seeing them this year...???...

steelerfan
07-28-2010, 12:16 AM
I know the games been out for a couple weeks, but it's still only July. There will be tuners at some point.

JeffHCross
07-28-2010, 12:17 AM
I'd guess they're waiting to get some other kinks worked out first before they tackle tuners.

steelerfan
07-28-2010, 12:42 AM
I'd guess they're waiting to get some other kinks worked out first before they tackle tuners.

My thoughts exactly. Their plates are pretty full right now with all the OD, DW and SS issues among others.

rhombic21
07-28-2010, 08:37 AM
I don't really care how full their plates are. They're only "full" because of their own incompetencies.

morsdraconis
07-28-2010, 08:44 AM
I don't really care how full their plates are. They're only "full" because of their own incompetencies.

WAH!

iBrandon
07-28-2010, 02:28 PM
I don't really care how full their plates are. They're only "full" because of their own incompetencies.

This post defiantly has some truth to it. I’m glad tuner sets can be knocked out in a few days, but hopefully they test them thoroughly. I would hate to get one and something else be jacked up.

steelerfan
07-28-2010, 03:01 PM
I don't really care how full their plates are. They're only "full" because of their own incompetencies.

First, I never said it wasn't their fault. Second, I never said anyone should care. Lastly, I'm sure we all have a personal list of things we want to see addressed. I have one and so do you. I could care less about random online play, which is important to you. You could care less about on and offline Dynasty which is important to me. That doesn't mean your list is more or less important than mine.

The point is, they need to get some things working at all before they can get others working better.

AustinWolv
07-28-2010, 04:07 PM
^^ Nicely and productively said.

jaymo76
07-28-2010, 04:24 PM
Ending my third season at ASU I can tell you that whether a patch or tuning sets, something has to be done with kickers/field goals. The kickers coming in from recruiting are absolutely brutal (regardless of slider tweaks). Two games ago the UCLA kicker missed two extra points and today against Northwestern the cpu kicker missed 2 field goals (with 30 yards) and the extra point conversion. I have seen more missed kicks this season than ALL NCAA SEASONS/GAMES I have ever played in the series!!!! No, that's not exageration either...

steelerfan
07-28-2010, 05:02 PM
jaymo, I've worried about this since that "potential problems with kickers" thread. Are you seeing kicks come up short or are they always wide? Just curious if accuracy is the big problem or if power is a huge issue too. How are kickoffs now?

I OU a Beatn
07-28-2010, 05:45 PM
As far as I'm concerned, there's absolutely no reason why we haven't seen at the very least a tuner set yet. It was blatantly obvious since the release day that there are issues with the game that need addressed. I'm pretty sure all the defenders getting suck in towards the middle of the line on outside run plays can be fixed via a tuner patch, as well as the pass rush and complete over effectiveness of man defense. I'm also relatively confident they can address the deepness of hook zones and what not. Like rhombic said, the fact that we're 2 weeks in with huge issues that kill the game and not only have we not received a tuner set, but not even heard what it will address is unacceptable.

jaymo76
07-29-2010, 12:18 PM
jaymo, I've worried about this since that "potential problems with kickers" thread. Are you seeing kicks come up short or are they always wide? Just curious if accuracy is the big problem or if power is a huge issue too. How are kickoffs now?

Always wide... distance is usually fine. However, nw I am also seeing FR punters struggle with short boots.

AustinWolv
07-29-2010, 12:31 PM
It was blatantly obvious since the release day that there are issues with the game that need addressed.
To the casual gamers on the market, probably not.

To big football fans and types on this site and others, yeah, maybe so. But the same on release day was and is still tons better than the past several iterations, so no.....I don't think it is as blatantly obvious as past years which were actually really messed up on release day....

rhombic21
07-29-2010, 12:55 PM
So once again we have promises that EA will do something better, and then it turns out that they don't.

morsdraconis
07-29-2010, 01:05 PM
So once again we have promises that EA will do something better, and then it turns out that they don't.

What's not better? Zone coverage, that's pretty much it and it's only broken on the hash marks (which aren't even THAT bad).

You only have a problem because you play online against random morons that always find a way to exploit the system. Welcome to playing online for christ's sake. It's ALWAYS going to happen.

rhombic21
07-29-2010, 01:22 PM
The hook zones aren't even what's messed up. Deep zones don't react properly to threats in their areas and flat zones don't adjust to the routes properly. Plus the defensive playbooks are absolutely horrible, and there are BASIC coverage concepts that are missing from many defensive formations.

Man coverage is an absolute joke. It's not even close to being more accurate or realistic than it was last year.

Run defense is pathetic. Defenders take terrible pursuit angles, often times just stand around and wait to get blocked, and have no concept of leverage or gap responsibility, which results in the outside running game being way overpowered.

That shit isn't just about online play. That's core to the sport of football.

And maybe the offline game would be more interesting of the CPU had any kind of real intelligence, and didn't rely on simply cheating by knowing your playcall or using unrealistic AI BS to cover up it's terrible base logic.

steelerfan
07-29-2010, 01:31 PM
If it gets fixed tomorrow, it should have been done today. If it gets fixed today, it should have been done yesterday.

Sadly, this is how impatient people are nowadays. Instant gratification. "Me, me, me!" There are hundreds of thousands of people with the game but only what I want fixed should be priority number one.

NFL training camps are just starting, it's not even August and it's already a failed year of football gaming because we don't have a tuner set or a second patch yet. The sky is falling.

Yawn...

rhombic21
07-29-2010, 01:35 PM
What are you even talking about? Honestly. What is the point of adding tuner sets if we're still going to have to wait months for them to bother to do anything?

Please explain to me how it's unreasonable to ask EA to fix shit that shouldn't have been broken in the first place. We've already paid for the game, and now it's unreasonable to ask that they fix glaring flaws with it?

How about they stop releasing shit products that are broken with some crippling flaw(s)? If they did that, then I wouldn't give a shit about tuning sets or patches at all, and neither would anybody else.

JBHuskers
07-29-2010, 01:43 PM
Well for one the game has only been out for two weeks.

The more technology advances, the more problems you're going to find.

Even the most heralded games have some pretty bad problems.

Again....it's been TWO WEEKS since release. Give it some time. Steelerfan isn't really THAT offbase with his last post.

Calling NCAA 11 a shit product is definitely a dramatic overstatment.

JeffHCross
07-29-2010, 01:44 PM
We've already paid for the game, and now it's unreasonable to ask that they fix glaring flaws with it?No. But for all we know they're working on a patch as we speak. For all we know, none of the 'glaring flaws' can be fixed with tuners. For all we know, there's a patch sitting in Sony and Microsoft's queue to be approved right now.

It's one thing to complain that there's not much communication. I agree with that. To go much further than that is a stretch, in my opinion.

steelerfan
07-29-2010, 01:57 PM
16 days is not "months". When "months" pass, we can say "months". There was a patch on day 1. They have features that do not (SS) or did not (DW, OD) work at all. Regardless of how important these features are to you and me, they have to at least get them working. It has to be job one. Even if you and I couldn't care less.

JBHuskers
07-29-2010, 01:59 PM
16 days is not "months". When "months" pass, we can say "months". There was a patch on day 1. They have features that do not (SS) or did not (DW, OD) work at all. Regardless of how important these features are to you and me, they have to at least get them working. It has to be job one. Even if you and I couldn't care less.

Yep .... and for the record, I think the patch was on day negative five....I think it dropped Thursday before release.

rhombic21
07-29-2010, 02:01 PM
What we know is that it takes several weeks for a patch to work it's way through the process. Last year the second patch didn't come out until August 25, and based on the fact that there has been no announcement of a patch or what it would contain, it's a pretty solid conclusion to say that it will at least be that long until the second patch for NCAA is released.

Second, if these issues can't be fixed with tuners, then I reiterate my point about EA promising some feature that's supposedly going to make things better, and then not delivering. If tuners can't fix any of these problems, then what is the value of adding tuners in the first place?

The game is now on it's 5th version for this generation of consoles. To expect a solid final product that doesn't immediately need several fixes to critical gameplay and dynasty components is far from an unreasonable thing.

Solidice
07-29-2010, 02:17 PM
No. But for all we know they're working on a patch as we speak. For all we know, none of the 'glaring flaws' can be fixed with tuners. For all we know, there's a patch sitting in Sony and Microsoft's queue to be approved right now.

It's one thing to complain that there's not much communication. I agree with that. To go much further than that is a stretch, in my opinion.

there is a patch coming(no date given), but there should be a blog up soon that'll talk about it(no exact date for the blog either). Russ made a post at the EA forums about that(also addressed another server side fix to help with some OD issue that apparently some people were having).

morsdraconis
07-29-2010, 02:42 PM
The hook zones aren't even what's messed up. Deep zones don't react properly to threats in their areas and flat zones don't adjust to the routes properly.

That's funny as I haven't ever seen this issue. I think you're getting your games mixed up.


Man coverage is an absolute joke. It's not even close to being more accurate or realistic than it was last year.

While, yes it's most definitely bullshit that guys are running the routes before the receivers, there are ways around it (outside of better sliders).


Run defense is pathetic. Defenders take terrible pursuit angles, often times just stand around and wait to get blocked, and have no concept of leverage or gap responsibility, which results in the outside running game being way overpowered.

Again, sure, it sucks but there are ways around it as well as sliders that fix most of the issues.


That shit isn't just about online play. That's core to the sport of football.

It's definitely about online play, especially for you. All of your complaints revolve around the fact that you only play the game online and therefore have to play on shitty default All-American which has ALWAYS been broken. That's what sliders are for.


And maybe the offline game would be more interesting of the CPU had any kind of real intelligence, and didn't rely on simply cheating by knowing your playcall or using unrealistic AI BS to cover up it's terrible base logic.

Again, you must be thinking of previous games because I've seen the CPU make NUMEROUS real intelligent plays, especially on the offensive side of the ball (like calling a draw on obvious passing downs and getting torched because of it). Sure, defense can be iffy, but people complaining about seams being too easy to throw against zone coverage apparently don't fuckin' watch football because that's exactly what seam routes are for.


Second, if these issues can't be fixed with tuners, then I reiterate my point about EA promising some feature that's supposedly going to make things better, and then not delivering. If tuners can't fix any of these problems, then what is the value of adding tuners in the first place?

EA hasn't even OFFICIALLY mentioned the tuners. It was something that was guessed by quite a few people and some of the CD guys let it out once the game hit. Again, the main people have NEVER mentioned the tuner sets.

JBHuskers
07-29-2010, 02:55 PM
Again, you must be thinking of previous games because I've seen the CPU make NUMEROUS real intelligent plays, especially on the offensive side of the ball (like calling a draw on obvious passing downs and getting torched because of it). Sure, defense can be iffy, but people complaining about seams being too easy to throw against zone coverage apparently don't fuckin' watch football because that's exactly what seam routes are for.



You're telling me....I've been torched by that....but in my OD game on the 360 against Pitt the other night the f'ers fake FG passed on me at the 10 yard line for a TD.

Solidice
07-29-2010, 03:09 PM
here you guys go. doesn't state exactly what will be in it, but the first tuner set should be out sometime next week.

http://ncaafootball.easports.com/blog.action?blogId=ThankYou

couple of things mentioned for the tuner set:

"we will be carefully down-tuning the athleticism of defensive lineman and reduce the number of impressive picks by the big guys. We're also looking to address a few important dynasty progression and recruiting issues."

AustinWolv
07-29-2010, 03:20 PM
Dreadlocks can kiss my ass. That shouldn't even need mentioning in that blog. Silly, given the progress the series made this year. The game is much better. Perfect, no. Things to work on in the future, sure, duh.
From reading the blogs and the interviews with the team this year, it is the first year in several that they really seem to get it, with good focus, and nailed a lot of good stuff. Now to do the same on the defensive side of the ball.

And yes, the CPU offensive AI is better this year, they've made some nice calls to counter stuff I have been doing in games....draws, screens, WR screens, returning to the ground game when I kept going nickel and dime Ds......

JeffHCross
07-29-2010, 03:45 PM
there is a patch coming(no date given)Wow. I feel almost prophetic, lol.

JBHuskers
07-29-2010, 04:00 PM
I think the dreads comment was said in spite because of the labeling it a game breaker :D

AustinWolv
07-29-2010, 04:05 PM
Oh, for sure. It was funny and one of those things, that as an engineer, you just want to punch people at times for being stupid.

Rudy
07-30-2010, 06:14 AM
So NCAA 11 has a day one patch, a tuner set that will be out roughly 3 weeks after release and a second patch probably 5 weeks or so after release. That's fairly quick imo. How well they work remains to be seen but I'm optimistic.

I have to agree with Mors. Playing on AA default has always been terrible. About the only football game I came close to playing on default sliders was 2K4. EA's football games always require a lot of tweaking in my eyes. So if you play online and have to play on the default settings I can understand your pain but it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game at all. Offline is all I care about and sliders can fix a lot of problems.

Of course we can argue leverage and other football terms but I tend to look more at the result than the process. The DE speed rush still isn't what it should be when 2K4 had it done extremely well seven years ago. But I can make the game work as is and still have a lot of fun. Rhombic, if the online game pisses you off that much then you are simply going to have to stop playing. I gave up on NCAA 10 early last year and barely played football over the last year until NCAA 11. Why play something you hate? Wait for the patch and play something else in the interim.

I OU a Beatn
07-30-2010, 06:29 AM
Why play something you hate?

Because in this case, we love playing NCAA Football online, and it's broken, and since EA has a monopoly on the market, we have to wait and pray that they fix it or become stuck with it until next year.

Rudy
07-30-2010, 08:12 AM
Because in this case, we love playing NCAA Football online, and it's broken, and since EA has a monopoly on the market, we have to wait and pray that they fix it or become stuck with it until next year.

This generation of football games has been disappointing to this point. Like it or not, they forced me to play a lot more non sports games and other sports games as well. I used to play football almost exclusively year round but not anymore. As much as I wanted to play a college football game last year (any football game really), the disappointment of the games available didn't really allow it unless I wanted to punish myself or waste my time. So I just played something else. We had inFamous and UC2 last year to occupy my time along with the other sports games (like the Show) which were really good. I'm not going to bang my head against the wall by playing a game I don't like.

ram29jackson
07-30-2010, 07:10 PM
I think the dreads comment was said in spite because of the labeling it a game breaker :D


well, speaking of dreads. I find it interesting that all the standard white guys in the game only have dark hair except for a reddish hair guy and theres no blonds so i can make an embellished version of me :)

jaymo76
07-30-2010, 09:20 PM
I guess I'm glad we will see tuners but once again, "slideritis" will occupy my nights until the game plays to my liking again.

ram29jackson
08-03-2010, 05:47 PM
tuner sets- forgive me, but we are just basically talking about so called patches, yes ?

JBHuskers
08-03-2010, 06:10 PM
tuner sets- forgive me, but we are just basically talking about so called patches, yes ?

no it's not a patch...it's something they can tune on the fly without a patch.

ram29jackson
08-03-2010, 06:30 PM
no it's not a patch...it's something they can tune on the fly without a patch.


in other words, we dont have to load it, its just there ? which is fine haha , just want to be clear what i'm waiting or looking for

JBHuskers
08-03-2010, 06:35 PM
in other words, we dont have to load it, its just there ? which is fine haha , just want to be clear what i'm waiting or looking for

It will automatically load when you start the game. It checks for tuner updates.

UGA14
08-04-2010, 09:11 AM
Was there a time frame on when these were coming out? I want to play my dynasty but there's no point I guess.

AustinWolv
08-04-2010, 09:14 AM
Playing my dynasty and it is enjoyable. Granted, I play the games and recruit, as I don't really spend time digging through other team's ratings and all that jazz.

UGA14
08-04-2010, 09:22 AM
That's what I do too but I don't want my team to turn into a team full of idiots.

AustinWolv
08-04-2010, 09:23 AM
Yeah, we were talking about that either in this thread or somewhere else, and my take was, 'Eh, guess what....all the other teams will be full of idiots too, so it still balances out....the bar is just lower."

steelerfan
08-04-2010, 09:24 AM
Was there a time frame on when these were coming out? I want to play my dynasty but there's no point I guess.

Sometime this week.

UGA14
08-04-2010, 09:38 AM
Yeah, we were talking about that either in this thread or somewhere else, and my take was, 'Eh, guess what....all the other teams will be full of idiots too, so it still balances out....the bar is just lower."

I got you, I felt the same way too but I'm not sure I can take the computer missing 15 yard field goals with ease. I love the game, but I want it to at least be somewhat representable of football. Not a big deal if everyone turns into idiots, but someone should still be able to hit a 30 yard FG haha.

AustinWolv
08-04-2010, 09:45 AM
Granted, I haven't gotten that deep into my dynasty to see that, since I'm splitting time between two dynasties.

JBHuskers
08-04-2010, 10:15 AM
Granted, I haven't gotten that deep into my dynasty to see that, since I'm splitting time between two dynasties.

Same here with four dynasties that I've started :D (two OD's, Nebraska Tech offline, Nebraska offline)

sl8b
08-05-2010, 09:39 AM
Hopefully today is the day with the server maintence this morning...

Has anyone checked since to see if a new update is out?

rhombic21
08-05-2010, 10:10 AM
First tuner set is out and it addresses virtually ZERO substantive gameplay issues. This is a joke. A complete joke.

sl8b
08-05-2010, 10:11 AM
First tuner set is out and it addresses virtually ZERO substantive gameplay issues. This is a joke. A complete joke.

Is their a list of what they changed? I just d/l it, but it doesn't say what it does.

gschwendt
08-05-2010, 10:16 AM
Is their a list of what they changed? I just d/l it, but it doesn't say what it does.
http://www.thegamingtailgate.com/forums/content.php?261-NCAA-Football-11-Live-Tuning-Package-1-Now-Out

UGA14
08-05-2010, 12:18 PM
The idea of the tuner set was to fix the dynasty issues.

cdj
08-05-2010, 12:24 PM
Russ posted this at OS in regards to the LTP and upcoming game update (http://www.operationsports.com/forums/2041423884-post33.html):

There is still a Title Update coming (still should be Mid-August) and it has a lot of other fixes/tuning in it. If you read Roy's blog and my blog I think we did a pretty good job of explaining that these Live Tuner Updates were not going to be able to address everything you could possibly want, but we are working to continue to makeNCAA Football 11 as great as we can.

Thanks for your continued feedback!
-Russ

morsdraconis
08-05-2010, 12:54 PM
First tuner set is out and it addresses virtually ZERO substantive gameplay issues. This is a joke. A complete joke.

You're just pissed because it didn't fix any playing random people online issues.

rhombic21
08-05-2010, 12:56 PM
It didn't fix any PLAYING THE GAME issues. It doesn't matter if it's random people or not, defenders are still going to run routes for receivers in man coverage, zones will not work correctly, and the outside running game will continue to be way overpowered.

AustinWolv
08-05-2010, 04:31 PM
Ah, c'mon now. He has legit beefs as much as the next guy.

It would likely help if examples were given however, as that could help prod the devs along to get to his suggestions if possible depending on their list size.

ram29jackson
08-05-2010, 04:50 PM
Ah, c'mon now. He has legit beefs as much as the next guy.

It would likely help if examples were given however, as that could help prod the devs along to get to his suggestions if possible depending on their list size.


its going to take more than a tuner set to get your LBs and safeties to persue an outside run properly

AustinWolv
08-05-2010, 05:01 PM
I didn't say anything about it being a tuner set. I said he can point out things he thinks needs fixing just as much as the next guy.

rhombic21
08-05-2010, 06:32 PM
Examples have been posted ad-nauseum. Not so much on this site, as there's no real point with the cheerleading conference that you guys seem to be in the middle of, but elsewhere.

I OU a Beatn
08-05-2010, 06:34 PM
First tuner set is out and it addresses virtually ZERO substantive gameplay issues. This is a joke. A complete joke.

Couldn't have said it better myself. It's absolutely ridiculous they issue a tuner patch and don't even address a single one of the multiple game breaking game play related issues that plagues their game.

cdj
08-05-2010, 07:49 PM
Couldn't have said it better myself. It's absolutely ridiculous they issue a tuner patch and don't even address a single one of the multiple game breaking game play related issues that plagues their game.

I don't know exactly how it works, but what if tuning can't adjust that kind of stuff - That it takes a change in coding (patch) instead?

AustinWolv
08-05-2010, 07:50 PM
Examples have been posted ad-nauseum. Not so much on this site, as there's no real point with the cheerleading conference that you guys seem to be in the middle of, but elsewhere.
You've written examples. Not pictorial examples, screenshots, even MS Paint examples. I've seen you reference one, maybe two, zone drop examples in text. Putting forth a well-prepared case of what and why something is broken will result in a much better result than just saying 'zones are broken, zones are broken'.

Resorting to 'woe is me' bashing you'd rather do of people here for showing some excitement that they are fixing parts of the game is childish and non-productive. Use your anger for good, Batman.

The response from the game team has been much better than past years. That is not deniable even if it doesn't suit YOUR needs, although it has been stepping forwards for OTHERS' needs.

I OU a Beatn
08-05-2010, 07:59 PM
I don't know exactly how it works, but what if tuning can't adjust that kind of stuff - That it takes a change in coding (patch) instead?

I'm 99% sure tuner patches for NHL 10 change and tuned things with actual game play, so I don't see why it would be any different for NCAA. I personally just believe all these issues we're seeing is a result of an outdated engine and EA just wont admit it. There's no other reasons why the same issues pop their ugly head up every single year.

cdj
08-05-2010, 08:02 PM
I haven't played NHL enough to know what they do, but if that's the case hopefully NCAA can expand on it in the future. From the CE, it sounded like they hoped to use LTP as much as they could to help address game issues without the wait that goes with patches.

I OU a Beatn
08-05-2010, 08:06 PM
Just for the record, like I said, I honestly believe there's no tuner set adjustment or patch that could fix the issues we're seeing. These issues have been in every single game this generation, which leads me to believe it's issues with the actual engine, which would also point out why EA never comments on the stuff we talk about online wise. I would just really like to know why every single year the same exact game breaking issues are left in the game only to find out 2 patches later that it's not getting fixed and we're basically stuck with it.

JeffHCross
08-05-2010, 08:09 PM
Examples have been posted ad-nauseum. Not so much on this site, as there's no real point with the cheerleading conference that you guys seem to be in the middle of, but elsewhere.You know, I'm the first guy to argue in favor of both sides of an opinion being able to be posted. But if you're going to dismiss the entire site (and thereby, all of its users) as cheerleaders, please, stay "elsewhere".

I'm 99% sure tuner patches for NHL 10 change and tuned things with actual game play, so I don't see why it would be any different for NCAA.Every game has to be coded in order to be tuned. Without knowing what they decided to add in code to be able to tune, it's impossible to say why there are differences in this list and NHL's tuning sets from last year. But different games have different designs. Now, I agree that they should be able to tune gameplay, but we can't know for sure what they are/are not capable of tuning.

ram29jackson
08-05-2010, 08:12 PM
You've written examples. Not pictorial examples, screenshots, even MS Paint examples. I've seen you reference one, maybe two, zone drop examples in text. Putting forth a well-prepared case of what and why something is broken will result in a much better result than just saying 'zones are broken, zones are broken'.

Resorting to 'woe is me' bashing you'd rather do of people here for showing some excitement that they are fixing parts of the game is childish and non-productive. Use your anger for good, Batman.

The response from the game team has been much better than past years. That is not deniable even if it doesn't suit YOUR needs, although it has been stepping forwards for OTHERS' needs.

rhombics been around. he knows whats up. he is just thinking out loud when he types what he types. i'm curious to see if those linemen dont jump as high haha. than again, better ball trajectory would be nice. if my receiver is 1-2-3 yards ahead of defender, why is my QB throwing passes that only reach the defender?... I still like this game

AustinWolv
08-05-2010, 08:44 PM
I know he's been around. He has posted solid stuff for many iterations. However, approach and objective argument is more likely to win changes and move farther up a change list with the devs than taking the negative tone. And yes, we've heard how the zones are broken for the past several versions.

gschwendt
08-05-2010, 08:46 PM
I think some of the issues with gameplay COULD have been addressed with a LTP, however, it's possible that they feel that it can be better addressed with a full fledged patch and rather than double fix it (LTP & patch), they'd rather address them with the patch (which is due out in the next week or two). Now, that's not to say that all issues will be addressed or to say that even any of them will be fixed, but I know that at least the psychic man coverage can be addressed... just look at how it plays setting Pass Coverage slider to 40. Hopefully some of the other issues are addressed as well.

JBHuskers
08-05-2010, 09:03 PM
Examples have been posted ad-nauseum. Not so much on this site, as there's no real point with the cheerleading conference that you guys seem to be in the middle of, but elsewhere.


You know, I'm the first guy to argue in favor of both sides of an opinion being able to be posted. But if you're going to dismiss the entire site (and thereby, all of its users) as cheerleaders, please, stay "elsewhere".


Agree with Jeff here 100% ... calling people cheerleaders for being excited with what is being done and constantly making posts that drone and bitch and whine....I agree with Jeff, find somewhere else to go.

rhombic21
08-05-2010, 09:13 PM
Agree with Jeff here 100% ... calling people cheerleaders for being excited with what is being done and constantly making posts that drone and bitch and whine....I agree with Jeff, find somewhere else to go.
Done.

gschwendt
08-05-2010, 09:56 PM
For the record... I nor anyone else here has a problem with any complaints against the game. It's far from perfect as anyone can see. However, what we want to see is constructive feedback and at the same time willing to give credit where credit is due. Simple enough.

At the same time though, it apparently needs to be said that everyone is entitled to an opinion. Just because someone complains about an issue (or for that matter praises something in the game) and you don't agree, that doesn't give you the right to chastise that person. So long as someone is doing complaints or praise constructively, then there's no need to shut anyone's opinion out.

cdj
08-05-2010, 09:58 PM
I think some of the issues with gameplay COULD have been addressed with a LTP, however, it's possible that they feel that it can be better addressed with a full fledged patch and rather than double fix it (LTP & patch), they'd rather address them with the patch (which is due out in the next week or two). Now, that's not to say that all issues will be addressed or to say that even any of them will be fixed, but I know that at least the psychic man coverage can be addressed... just look at how it plays setting Pass Coverage slider to 40. Hopefully some of the other issues are addressed as well.

That's a good point as well.

I'm sure we would have all liked to see as much in the LTP as possible, but they did do a lot for Dynasty Mode - the most played mode in the game. Fortunately, the patch/second game update isn't that far off.

Rudy
08-05-2010, 10:12 PM
I don't agree with a lot of Rhombic's rants but I do like to hear the other side of the spectrum as well. Rhombic probably could be more PC in his comments though. IOU isn't happy with a lot of things either. The common thread with both is that they are good players that play a lot online. Offline vs. online problems can be very different but both can be frustrating for each group.

I will agree that I did expect more out of the tuner set than what was released. I'm happy to get a fix for the progression problem (which I haven't seen yet - I'll let others confirm that for me) but tuner sets in NHL did a TON of things to actual gameplay (at least according to my brother - there was a major goalie fix in one). All this tuner set did was tone down the ability for the big guys to knock down passes.

I actually like the game as it is offline. I'm not sure I want to see too much stuff changed. I think play action passes could be done better, I think the cpu RBs should be smarter, I would like to see the cpu QBs throw a few less picks. The big one for me would be to have the cpu run the spread option properly but that has been such a long standing problem that I doubt it will be fixed through either a tuner set or a patch. I'm not sure they even know how to fix it. Personally I think they need to simply boost the run blocking on option plays for the cpu or just give the cpu QBs a speed boost when running the option to make them more dangerous. Teams that run pro style offenses against me give me trouble. Option teams do not.

mundo
08-05-2010, 10:26 PM
not to belabor the negativity thing... but this is a first for me. I have witnessed people (mostly young ones) get "internet emotional" about their school team sucking it... especially lately as an Aggie. I think it is pretty ridiculous but I can understand the connection and pride that is the root of it (and have been guilty of it myself in my younger day). However, I have never seen nor do I remotely understand that level angst and misery over a video game... priorities I guess and to each his own

As to my constructive opinion, I am still enjoying this game (even with a few known hangups) and I am glad they addressed the issues they have addressed in this LTP (they were important). Furthermore, I do hope that they address some of the coverage issues and think they will give it a good shot in the patch.

In the end, I will still enjoy this as a game.

JeffHCross
08-05-2010, 10:43 PM
Personally, I welcome Rhombic's contributions to this forum, as well as anyone else that comes here to state their own opinion.

I just took exception to seeing the site characterized as a cheerleading conference. I don't even care if people don't want to be 'constructive'. If you want to post a one-liner, feel free.

But don't throw us all under a bus with generalizations.

cdj
08-05-2010, 11:01 PM
Personally, I welcome Rhombic's contributions to this forum, as well as anyone else that comes here to state their own opinion.

I just took exception to seeing the site characterized as a cheerleading conference. I don't even care if people don't want to be 'constructive'. If you want to post a one-liner, feel free.

But don't throw us all under a bus with generalizations.

Well said. Everyone is welcome here, we just ask for some semblance of civility. Insulting entire websites would result in warnings or bans at most places, but that did not happen here. I know we are already fighting an incorrect stigma, but we do not delete, remove, or ban posts/members praising or critical of NCAA Football (or any game for that matter). We just ask for mature banter (for the most part :P). The golden rule is to basically give the kind of feedback you would want in regards to your own school or work project or from family and friends.

If people have thoughts or concerns in regards to site, we have the Forum Feedback thread as well as private messaging and e-mails to chat with us.

jaymo76
08-05-2010, 11:28 PM
I don't agree with a lot of Rhombic's rants but I do like to hear the other side of the spectrum as well. Rhombic probably could be more PC in his comments though. IOU isn't happy with a lot of things either. The common thread with both is that they are good players that play a lot online. Offline vs. online problems can be very different but both can be frustrating for each group.

I will agree that I did expect more out of the tuner set than what was released. I'm happy to get a fix for the progression problem (which I haven't seen yet - I'll let others confirm that for me) but tuner sets in NHL did a TON of things to actual gameplay (at least according to my brother - there was a major goalie fix in one). All this tuner set did was tone down the ability for the big guys to knock down passes.

I actually like the game as it is offline. I'm not sure I want to see too much stuff changed. I think play action passes could be done better, I think the cpu RBs should be smarter, I would like to see the cpu QBs throw a few less picks. The big one for me would be to have the cpu run the spread option properly but that has been such a long standing problem that I doubt it will be fixed through either a tuner set or a patch. I'm not sure they even know how to fix it. Personally I think they need to simply boost the run blocking on option plays for the cpu or just give the cpu QBs a speed boost when running the option to make them more dangerous. Teams that run pro style offenses against me give me trouble. Option teams do not.

I agree with your second paragraph. I figured more would be done with regards to tuning gameplay. However, as mentioned with the patch coming out soon I suspect they didn't feel the need to "double-dip."

UGA14
08-05-2010, 11:36 PM
WOW man. I'm all about some NCAA Football on the PlayStation but hot damn I've got a long way to go to reach this status... to complain about someone doing something to fix a game I bought. A game that is... playable, serviceable, and does what it was advertised to do. I don't expect the most realistic simulation ever, if I did I'd go play... so what we have here, a virtual representation of a game is pretty damn good. Certainly not bad enough to get in a fit about and I play on default Heisman... even there I've found the game quite enjoyable this year. I get frustrated at some things but with work and everything else going on in my life... I actually enjoy the amount of time I get to play, rather than playing a ton and nit picking everything I see. I play a little and it's actually refreshing unlike the past.

JBHuskers
08-06-2010, 12:46 AM
WOW man. I'm all about some NCAA Football on the PlayStation but hot damn I've got a long way to go to reach this status... to complain about someone doing something to fix a game I bought. A game that is... playable, serviceable, and does what it was advertised to do. I don't expect the most realistic simulation ever, if I did I'd go play... so what we have here, a virtual representation of a game is pretty damn good. Certainly not bad enough to get in a fit about and I play on default Heisman... even there I've found the game quite enjoyable this year. I get frustrated at some things but with work and everything else going on in my life... I actually enjoy the amount of time I get to play, rather than playing a ton and nit picking everything I see. I play a little and it's actually refreshing unlike the past.

Remember the time when there were no such things as patches :D let alone live tuning which was new to Tiger 10 and NCAA Football 11.

HuskerBlitz
08-06-2010, 01:03 AM
LOL at 'cheerleading conference'. Now, damn, where did I lay my pom-poms at. :D

There is a camp where EA can seemingly do nothing right. I'm sure there is a camp where EA can do nothing wrong.

Then there is the camp I'm in, and that's I'll take whatever EA gives us because I'm able to adapt myself to how the game plays and tweak however I feel is right and enjoy it as a game (emphasis on game). I don't get myself stressed out over things beyond my control, as opposed to those who seem to have their undies in a wad over this game. What purpose does that serve?

I know certain people are upset at how the game can be exploited in random online games. Personally, if you play random online games you should expect people to take advantage of AI flaws because it happens in every single game out there.

It took, what, four games before Create-a-School came back on next gen? Yeah, I was disappointed but I don't recall constantly whining about it. A couple of posts about my non-satisfaction and I moved on. I actually think there are several who should probably move on as well if they get this upset about a game.

Just my $0.02.

morsdraconis
08-06-2010, 01:14 AM
LOL at 'cheerleading conference'. Now, damn, where did I lay my pom-poms at. :D

There is a camp where EA can seemingly do nothing right. I'm sure there is a camp where EA can do nothing wrong.

Then there is the camp I'm in, and that's I'll take whatever EA gives us because I'm able to adapt myself to how the game plays and tweak however I feel is right and enjoy it as a game (emphasis on game). I don't get myself stressed out over things beyond my control, as opposed to those who seem to have their undies in a wad over this game. What purpose does that serve?

I know certain people are upset at how the game can be exploited in random online games. Personally, if you play random online games you should expect people to take advantage of AI flaws because it happens in every single game out there.

It took, what, four games before Create-a-School came back on next gen? Yeah, I was disappointed but I don't recall constantly whining about it. A couple of posts about my non-satisfaction and I moved on. I actually think there are several who should probably move on as well if they get this upset about a game.

Just my $0.02.

I completely agree man. If I'm disappointed about a game, whining about it isn't going to change anything. Constructive criticism is the only direction to go to get anything worthwhile out of the experience.

I'm the ultimate hardass when it comes to games. I hate more games than I like and I've hated my share of EA football games so I certainly see where he's coming from, but going nuts over every tiny thing isn't going to really help.

steelerfan
08-06-2010, 01:37 AM
"If you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting the same results."

For years a large portion (some of us "cheerleaders" included) have gone about things in the wrong way (ie "F you, EA"). I think alot of us have woken up and grown up enough to realize that a civil approach will get you further. EA has done a commendable job of interacting with the community. They have done a commendable job of acknowledging issues that are pointed out in the community.

If I worked on this game, I'd probably ignore the community as much as possible. I'd just say, "the 0.5% of our customers who post on those sites can lick my sack." How many of us would enjoy having thousands of nameless, faceless people bashing our work year round? How willing would you be yo help those people? I wouldn't be.

How many products do you buy that have multiple message boards dedicated to them and the manufacturers listen to relentless amount of hatred on those boards and still try to stay positive and help those people? I agree with HB, if this game makes you so miserable, it's time to retire.

I OU a Beatn
08-06-2010, 06:42 AM
I know certain people are upset at how the game can be exploited in random online games. Personally, if you play random online games you should expect people to take advantage of AI flaws because it happens in every single game out there.

I fully expect random people or anyone I play online to take advantage of flaws. However, there's a difference between what we've had on next gen as opposed to during the PS2 days. Every single thing that could be done on PS2 had a simply counter to it. There wasn't a single thing that was game breaking. Fast forward to this generation and there has been something completely broken every single year. '08 had the god pass rush and unrealistic LB jumps to get picks. '09 had the rocket catch. '10 had the horrible pass rush where you could sit in the pocket for a week. Now '11 comes out and once again, there's no pass rush, you can sit in big formations and right stretch plays and tosses all game and not only will you win, but you'll score every possession. Then you have man defense, which runs the route before the WR. You also have huge holes in zone defense which has been an issue every single year.

It's just a little ridiculous that we online players have to deal with this garbage year in and year out. I've supported them every year since '98, so I kind of expect them to at least spend some time on the mode I play the most. I saw over 20,000 people online at times during the first week, so I'm kind of at a loss of words how EA could just ignore that customer base.

Oh well, I'm already 99% sure none of the things I mentioned are getting fixed because as I said, I'm confident they would have to rebuild the engine as I believe that's where all the issues stem from. Hopefully Madden holds my attention for longer than a month.

rhombic21
08-06-2010, 03:52 PM
Multiple things:

1) I made the "cheerleading comment," and maybe that was somewhat unfair, but the reality is that, dating back to even before the game came out, every single time that I have posted anything critical of the game, I have been met with people who have essentially tried to argue that blatant problems are not really an issue at all, and that I'm just being too picky. "You're just unhappy because online sucks....", "They can't make a perfect game....", "Just manually control that player/don't call that play/don't play those people...." So, I guess it was probably slightly unfair, but I still stand behind it, because in general, every single time that I have posted anything that was unhappy with the game, I have been met with multiple responses that, in some way or another, indicate that the other posters on this board are completely unwilling to have a discussion which includes criticism of the game.

2) The "constructive criticism" argument is flat out ridiculous. I have been posting some of the most well-thought content that explains problems with the game and suggests solutions to those problems that exists in the entire community, and I've been doing it for YEARS now (dating back to when online play first started). I've done it in both text form and video form, and at times I've even done it in personal conversations with developers (virtual and in-person). And my experience has been that none of it is ever used, or really even acknowledged as potentially helpful. The same core flaws exist year after year and the development team has made no real effort to change many of the fundamental problems with the game that I (and others) have been pointing out since this franchise moved to these consoles. So you'll excuse me if I don't put together a 10 minute video or 1500 word post every single time that I come across some issue with the game. Frankly, there have already been volumes written about this stuff, so if the development team is truly interested in making a better game, then they should have a pretty good starting place.

3) IF they ultimately fix some of these game issues in a patch, then that would be a good thing. I am disappointed that I, and many others, were led to believe that these tuners represented an alternative to the patch process which would result more rapid deployment in game fixes as they relate to gameplay and online play. Ultimately we are now in the same cycle that we have been for the past 3 years, which is that the game comes out in mid-July, there are several ridiculous flaws which make the default sliders (and by extension online play) completely unrealistic (and some of which cannot even be fixed with the sliders that are available for offline dynasty), and we end up having to wait until late-August for them to release a fix. And in the past those fixes have tended to be minimal and relatively minor in comparison to the problems that they were aimed at.

Several of these issues seem like the kinds of things that definitely ought to be fixable via tuners (otherwise it's not clear what utility tuners would ever have for gameplay). Things like psychic man to man coverage and pursuit/run defense (which as previously mentioned can be reasonably fixed using the sliders that are accessible for offline play) come to mind as primary candiates. Field goal length/accuracy is another (right now people online are kicking 55+ yard field goals on a consistent basis even with average kickers -- and it's been that way for several years now).

If they are planning on fixing these things in a patch, it's still not clear why they wouldn't release a tuner set for us to use in the interim time before a patch can work it's way through the approval process. Then simply release a new tuner set to coincide with the new patch. That's what you'd really do if you truly cared about your customers and about the gameplay experience.

4) The reality is that EA released a broken game. Dynasty mode was virtually unplayable due to progression issues until 3 weeks after release, and numerous core gameplay elements are horribly flawed (and will remain so for another 2-3 weeks). So if we want to have a discussion about EA as having improved customer service or better community interaction, or just generally giving some sense that this year is going to be different in terms of their effort in making the product more enjoyable, then there is clearly a long ways to go.

If EA truly cared about those things then they would start with the tuner/patch framework that I outlined earlier (use tuners as short-term solutions and try for more foundational fixes in patches), and they'd also do things like release some DLC after ship. There is no viable reason, for instance, why we should still have to wait an entire year for things like playbook updates in this day and age, especially given the fact that they refuse to give us a playbook editor/creator.

JBHuskers
08-06-2010, 04:30 PM
I think some of the issues with gameplay COULD have been addressed with a LTP, however, it's possible that they feel that it can be better addressed with a full fledged patch and rather than double fix it (LTP & patch), they'd rather address them with the patch (which is due out in the next week or two). Now, that's not to say that all issues will be addressed or to say that even any of them will be fixed, but I know that at least the psychic man coverage can be addressed... just look at how it plays setting Pass Coverage slider to 40. Hopefully some of the other issues are addressed as well.

Yeah I'm definitely interested to see what the mid-August patch is going to look like.

AustinWolv
08-06-2010, 04:32 PM
1. A minority of forum members responding to a single member hardly provides a picture to paint a whole site. Yes, there are a lot of positive people here. Many others have posted 'negative' comments as well. The proof is all sitting right there. It isn't a big deal. But guess what? A site of positive people who are also providing that constructive criticism is going to be a whole lot more interesting to read, participate in, and take seriously than people who just bitch about every little thing. A negative mob mentality just grows and grows to where NOTHING is right and thus it is too hard to glean valuable feedback from all the rubble. Seen it happen on other sites and the participation tailspins into the ground.

2. Constructive criticism - yes, you have for years. Nicely done. People recognize that. But we're not in past years and as has been noted for a couple months now, it appears that EA is addressing community concerns and being more open about things. Hell, was it '08 maybe.....there was literally zero info out on the game leading up to and through E3.....it was really strange how quiet it was. You post good stuff, so if you feel that helpless that it doesn't help, then {shrug}, don't know how to fix that here at this site. Also, the stuff you have posted on THIS site isn't to the level of stuff you have posted in past years, so new/different dev team members, new/different people here......maybe they aren't as familiar with your past detailed chronicles. Instead, they just see 'this game sucks, zones are broken, this game is unplayable, can't stop the outside run, this game sucks'.
So in the HERE and NOW, keep up the feedback and it would be ludicrous if improvements weren't made on your feedback (yes, which has been noted for a long time). I mean, seriously.....didn't people repeatedly complain about blocking and option being broken for a while.....I know I complained left and right about read option out of shotgun last year and I basically stopped playing the game at one point because of it.......and haven't they shown considerable improvement there? So the evidence is sitting out there that they are addressing things.
I am an engineer. I lead design teams that put out produts that people on this board likely use daily. The stuff that my teams have designed, tested, and put out into production costs considerably more than a $60 video game. Thus, I can tell you this: You can't seriously fix every issue from every user on a product in a single product release. There are still fundamental things that I don't like about products that we've put out that polarizes the different customer bases. Blame marketing. ;)

Tuner sets - not well understood on what the limitations are for them yet, so I'll agree with you there. I don't pretend to know the technical details. But I'll also disagree that you can just fix things correctly and easily at the drop of a hat. Production fixes take time......I watch the BIOS and software teams all the time have to deal with that.......and they are dealing with major customers who are themselves some of the largest companies in the world and when THEY want fixes, they want them now because their businesses have millions upon millions riding on stuff working.

4. Your opinion, that's fine. I've been playing dynasty just fine. Is it messed up as the data showed for those who have raced through 5+ seasons? Sure. Indeed. But it isn't unplayable. C'mon, dial down the Johnny Drama-ism stuff.

Like I said, compared to past years, they are doing much better on customer service. It isn't an absolute that they are perfect now, but the evidence is hard and fast of the improvements made, with and without customer feedback. Is it really that tough to give them some credit?

Look, the game is messed up in certain aspects. Especially in the aspects that YOU enjoy. The game is fine or even excellent in other aspects. We all realize that. However, you just bitch that the game sucks on every post. We know, we get it. I'm sure EA knows that some things are messed up. And I can tell you from leading development teams that just listening to bitching isn't exactly inspiring, but solid feedback to help us understand what the customer is seeing, how they use the product, and what they think is important to be fixed goes a HELL of a lot further than 'this product feels cheap, make it feel nicer'.

HuskerBlitz
08-06-2010, 04:40 PM
We need a thumbs-up smilie, ala Facebook for posts like the one above. Wish it could be posted elsewhere, too.

UGA14
08-06-2010, 05:06 PM
Dynasty was playable. No part of the game was "virtually unplayable," it all worked. Maybe not how YOU wanted it to work, but the game worked. It did not freeze up and send Satan out on the tv screen to kill you... it let you play. Sure, your players turned into massive pieces of shiat who were unable to kick 25 yard field goals... but the game was still "virtually playable."

IT IS A GAME.

morsdraconis
08-06-2010, 05:07 PM
We need a thumbs-up smilie, ala Facebook for posts like the one above. Wish it could be posted elsewhere, too.

I completely agree.

Very well articulated on both accounts.

In all the complaints about zones being wrong and I've yet to see videos showing it. Sure, I've seen it in game myself, but without video evidence, it's hard to really show what's wrong.

rhombic21
08-06-2010, 05:31 PM
How many posts were there on this forum and others by people who said they were "waiting for tuner sets to come out" before they would resume their dynasty. I think that's a pretty good indication that dynasty mode was horribly broken. If dynasty mode WASN'T so horribly broken, then that makes me wonder why there were such glowing reactions to the tuner set when it was released earlier this week.

UGA14
08-06-2010, 05:36 PM
I didn't play because I was at the end of a season and knew it was coming. Without it, whatever, I would have played anyways because it's just a game... not a representation of real life. If I wanted that I'd apply to be the AD at Georgia and do this in the real world.

It's a game. I guess I just have bigger things to worry about in my life. When I sit down to play a game I want it to be fun. If 10 years from now everyone's QB is rated 70 instead of 85, I don't really see what the big deal is. If it's still fun, that's all I care about.

HuskerBlitz
08-06-2010, 06:50 PM
How many were scared off from the doom and gloom negative posts they read over and over? Fear breeds fear. Those that probably haven't noticed issues probably began to believe them after hearing horror stories all along.

Either way, a person can be constructive in criticism or they can be negative. They can submit problems they see to EA to review or they can make jokes about EA. A person can read the negative posts and do nothing or a person can get fed up with reading all the negative posts and say something about it.

steelerfan
08-06-2010, 08:13 PM
Done.

Well, that didn't last long... ;)

JeffHCross
08-06-2010, 09:50 PM
indicate that the other posters on this board are completely unwilling to have a discussion which includes criticism of the game.And there are some posters on other sites that are completely unwilling to have a discussion which includes positive comments of the game. You and I both know this to be true. I realize that you get frustrated when people disagree with you, but so do the rest of us. Everyone on this site, everyone willing to go to any website to discuss NCAA, must feel very passionately about the series. There's a reason we're called "the hardcore".

For what it's worth, I always welcome your criticism of the title. Often you and I don't see eye to eye, but every once in a while I think we both make points that forces the other to sit back and think. And that's what I look forward to anytime I join in a discussion, here or elsewhere.

How many posts were there on this forum and others by people who said they were "waiting for tuner sets to come out" before they would resume their dynasty.I made several of these posts, and this had nothing to do with dynasty mode being broken. I was waiting for EA or someone else to say whether or not the tuner set was going to force a restart. That's the only reason I was waiting at all. Didn't want any wasted effort.

jaymo76
08-07-2010, 12:25 AM
And there are some posters on other sites that are completely unwilling to have a discussion which includes positive comments of the game. You and I both know this to be true. I realize that you get frustrated when people disagree with you, but so do the rest of us. Everyone on this site, everyone willing to go to any website to discuss NCAA, must feel very passionately about the series. There's a reason we're called "the hardcore".
For what it's worth, I always welcome your criticism of the title. Often you and I don't see eye to eye, but every once in a while I think we both make points that forces the other to sit back and think. And that's what I look forward to anytime I join in a discussion, here or elsewhere.
I made several of these posts, and this had nothing to do with dynasty mode being broken. I was waiting for EA or someone else to say whether or not the tuner set was going to force a restart. That's the only reason I was waiting at all. Didn't want any wasted effort.

Jeff, you're bolded section is so true. I have grown tired of a lot of in-fighting and name-calling on other sites and now I don't really post anywhere but here. I have have 1200+ posts on a certain site but I hhaven't posted there in months because I'm tired of all the B.S., name-calling, and cheap shots. Whether we are EA homers, 2k fanboys, bandwagon jumpers, Tiburon haters, whatever.... we have one thing in common.... WE POST BECAUSE WE LOVE THIS GAME AND WANT TO HAVE AN AMAZING GAME YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT. I really like this site because I feel everyone has the right to be heard AND respected for their viewpoints. I also love the fact that we can agree to disagree, as long as we do it in a respectul manner...

JBHuskers
08-07-2010, 12:30 AM
Jeff, you're bolded section is so true. I have grown tired of a lot of in-fighting and name-calling on other sites and now I don't really post anywhere but here. I have have 1200+ posts on a certain site but I hhaven't posted there in months because I'm tired of all the B.S., name-calling, and cheap shots. Whether we are EA homers, 2k fanboys, bandwagon jumpers, Tiburon haters, whatever.... we have one thing in common.... WE POST BECAUSE WE LOVE THIS GAME AND WANT TO HAVE AN AMAZING GAME YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT. I really like this site because I feel everyone has the right to be heard AND respected for their viewpoints. I also love the fact that we can agree to disagree, as long as we do it in a respectul manner...

Well said.

steelerfan
08-07-2010, 03:34 AM
we can agree to disagree, as long as we do it in a respectul manner

Yes, yes, yes.

This site has the good vibe that another site I used to post on had in like 2003 or so. Eventually, there were about 10 guys who hated the game (or didn't even play it) that decided what everyone could or could not think about the game. I'd see noobs come in and get flamed for asking basic questions that "everyone should know the answer to". I'd see a "pack mentality" and I'd see it infect the new members. It was childish bullying.

This site has become a breath of fresh air for those of us that are here to learn from each other's experiences and want to get the most out of a game we love (and hopefully, influence positive changes to this and future titles).

Part of the problem, as I see it, is that what happens sometimes is that there are people who think they know it all. They think they're smarter than everybody else and they have completely closed their minds to healthy discussion (not talking about anyone here). It makes me wonder why someone who "knows it all" and who can never see another's view as valid joins a "discussion board". Talk to yourself if you don't care what anybody else thinks!

They get caught up in trying to fit in, in trying to gain approval from the others in the "pack", in trying to use all the latest "I am disappoint" internet jargon, in trying to follow the latest "rickroll". It doesn't interest me.

I'm here for the game.

I'm here because I know there are guys here who love this game as much as I do and I know I can learn something if I let myself. It's up to me.

morsdraconis
08-07-2010, 08:03 AM
The only thing I miss from the other forum is the Xs and Os talk. It's sorely missed here (and I wish we could get those guys to come here, but que sera sera) but everything else here GREATLY makes up for those missed nuggets of real life football talk and strategy.

Rudy
08-07-2010, 08:12 AM
I only read about the progression issues in dynasty mode but they sounded bad and most people agreed to it. That said, how many people were actually playing into their 3rd or 4th year by the time the tuning set came out? I did slow down a little at the end of season one to make sure my recruits got the use of the tuning set so it was important for me to get that fix.

I do think EA needs to rethink how they do the community day stuff. Instead of just having 6 or 7 guys come in and play the game and give feedback, I think they need to make sure a couple of those guys are specialists. Bring one guy in that is an expert in rosters, dynasty stuff and progression. Just have him run season simulations all the time. I'd also love to know if recruiting is different if you do it on a week by week basis versus just simming an entire year at once. I'm not sure how that logic works. Have another guy just focus on sliders - test kick accuracies and length for punts and kickers, how effective blocking sliders work, etc. I think some of the bugs or issues this year (progression) and in the past (sliders of 09 and 10 initially) could have been identified by focusing cd guys in certain areas rather than just looking at the big picture. You do need that but specialized and experienced testers are vital for certain things.

AustinWolv
08-07-2010, 09:50 AM
The only thing I miss from the other forum is the Xs and Os talk. It's sorely missed here (and I wish we could get those guys to come here, but que sera sera) but everything else here GREATLY makes up for those missed nuggets of real life football talk and strategy.

Off-topic:
I'm not a football coach or expert, but I'm hoping to put some vids up as time allows. I doubt it will impress the hardcore, but maybe it will help the rest of the masses....

JeffHCross
08-07-2010, 10:41 AM
The only thing I miss from the other forum is the Xs and Os talk.Agreed, though I've noticed a downward trend in Xs & Os discussion across all forums in recent years. As people are getting older, they're not discussing the breakdown as much, and we haven't replaced that lost knowledge with new minds.

Personally, I love breaking down Xs & Os in real life, but I just can't make myself spend the time in NCAA. I think because I'm already spending too much time on the game as it is.

morsdraconis
08-07-2010, 10:53 AM
I only read about the progression issues in dynasty mode but they sounded bad and most people agreed to it. That said, how many people were actually playing into their 3rd or 4th year by the time the tuning set came out? I did slow down a little at the end of season one to make sure my recruits got the use of the tuning set so it was important for me to get that fix.

I was in the middle of my 3rd season when it was announced so I just waited (coincided with the fact that I was getting a bit burnt out as well) and while there were definite issues with recruits coming in too low, I think progression was perfect but with some testing that I did, starting from scratch with the new tuners, it's even better (high level recruits coming in at around 82-85 progressing 3-6 points a year). People have said that that is too much, but you also have to think that the guys that hit 96+ overall by their junior year are the guys that do amazing things that year and then leave early for the NFL so it works out well in my opinion.


I do think EA needs to rethink how they do the community day stuff. Instead of just having 6 or 7 guys come in and play the game and give feedback, I think they need to make sure a couple of those guys are specialists. Bring one guy in that is an expert in rosters, dynasty stuff and progression. Just have him run season simulations all the time. I'd also love to know if recruiting is different if you do it on a week by week basis versus just simming an entire year at once. I'm not sure how that logic works. Have another guy just focus on sliders - test kick accuracies and length for punts and kickers, how effective blocking sliders work, etc. I think some of the bugs or issues this year (progression) and in the past (sliders of 09 and 10 initially) could have been identified by focusing cd guys in certain areas rather than just looking at the big picture. You do need that but specialized and experienced testers are vital for certain things.

Truthfully, I think the main issue is the testers or lack thereof that EA has working on the game. I'm not sure how they go about testing the game (be it just the engineers and stuff running tests after they're done with the game or what) but whatever direction they've went with testing the game definitely needs to be looked at as an ineffective way of handling it because it's obviously not working.

It was pretty easy to see that between scaling the overall more towards player skills and less towards awareness (which is exactly what they did to make it where recruits come in ranked lower) as well as lowering progression like they did there were going to be issues several seasons down the road in teams dropping in overall across the board. It's unfortunate that this great game had that issue to the point that really ruined dynasties for people for a while, but it's definitely fixed now.

It's just hard not to think that they either aren't testing this stuff thoroughly enough or they just aren't testing it for the right things because it's very hard for me to believe that they aren't testing it at all.


Off-topic:
I'm not a football coach or expert, but I'm hoping to put some vids up as time allows. I doubt it will impress the hardcore, but maybe it will help the rest of the masses....

Sounds awesome man. I look forward to it. I'm certainly no coach or expert either so I'm always willing to learn more.

ram29jackson
08-07-2010, 02:20 PM
Yes, yes, yes.

This site has the good vibe that another site I used to post on had in like 2003 or so. Eventually, there were about 10 guys who hated the game (or didn't even play it) that decided what everyone could or could not think about the game. I'd see noobs come in and get flamed for asking basic questions that "everyone should know the answer to". I'd see a "pack mentality" and I'd see it infect the new members. It was childish bullying.

This site has become a breath of fresh air for those of us that are here to learn from each other's experiences and want to get the most out of a game we love (and hopefully, influence positive changes to this and future titles).

Part of the problem, as I see it, is that what happens sometimes is that there are people who think they know it all. They think they're smarter than everybody else and they have completely closed their minds to healthy discussion (not talking about anyone here). It makes me wonder why someone who "knows it all" and who can never see another's view as valid joins a "discussion board". Talk to yourself if you don't care what anybody else thinks!

They get caught up in trying to fit in, in trying to gain approval from the others in the "pack", in trying to use all the latest "I am disappoint" internet jargon, in trying to follow the latest "rickroll". It doesn't interest me.

I'm here for the game.

I'm here because I know there are guys here who love this game as much as I do and I know I can learn something if I let myself. It's up to me.


....did you say, Rick Roll?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hczaiM3LH0M

JeffHCross
08-07-2010, 02:30 PM
That is the most tolerable Rick Roll ever.

jaymo76
08-07-2010, 06:52 PM
I thought the tuning patch limited DL's blocking passes. Against USC just nowe the DL had 7 or 8 blocks.... I was screaming at my TV... not that it did any good... lol

JeffHCross
08-07-2010, 08:32 PM
I've definitely seen fewer ... maybe two or three total ... since the tuner set. Imagine what USC must have been before the patch ...

HuskerBlitz
08-07-2010, 08:39 PM
Just curious, but are any of you guys firing bullets over the middle? I don't have much of an issue with blocked passes unless I fire a bullet. I lob the ball more when passing over the Dline and always have.

JeffHCross
08-07-2010, 08:44 PM
Oh yeah, I fire nothing but bullets, but I know that's my problem.

That's also how I know it's been toned down :D

Rudy
08-08-2010, 06:00 AM
I never signed any 5* players but my highest rated 4* player was a TE and he came in at an 81. I had a WR come in at 76 and two 4* RBs come in at 75. My 3* guys aren't so good. A lot of them came in around 65 although some were lower rated 3* players. It seemed that the average 4* was around 75 and the average 3* around 65 or so for my class.

morsdraconis
08-08-2010, 09:25 AM
5* guys come in anywhere from 79-86 from my experience.

UGA14
08-08-2010, 12:35 PM
I don't have a big problem with the tips either. I don't throw all bullets, I mix it up depending on the situation and the line.

jaymo76
08-08-2010, 05:03 PM
I don't have a big problem with the tips either. I don't throw all bullets, I mix it up depending on the situation and the line.

Maybe it's my crappy QB but if I don't bullet and do a lob it just floats up there and the god-like DB's swarm...

Sinister
08-09-2010, 09:35 AM
maybe its just my play of that game but its seems like they did something to the db catching i had interceptions when the ball was catchable . i still did see a d lineman one hand catch a high pass intended for my rb, but i can live with that as long as the defense on my side can intercept the ball now.

jaymo76
08-09-2010, 01:19 PM
maybe its just my play of that game but its seems like they did something to the db catching i had interceptions when the ball was catchable . i still did see a d lineman one hand catch a high pass intended for my rb, but i can live with that as long as the defense on my side can intercept the ball now.

Yeah you know what... I was thinking about this. Three games post patch.... er... tuner I have had 2 picks each game and my QB has thrown four pics. It does seem easier to pic the ball. I don't know... maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there... but...

Rudy
09-14-2010, 10:03 AM
Can they use the tuning set to increase the amount of QB scrambles by the cpu or the effectiveness of the cpu at running option plays? These areas need a big time improvement imo. While I doubt these areas will be fixed through a tuning file I would love this to be a heavy emphasis for next year. The spread option offense is one of the biggest differences between the NFL and NCAA. It's extremely important that they fix this area. I think one way to help would be to provide an option run blocking slider. That way we can boost blocking on option run plays without affecting pro style offensive plays. It could be a very simple solution to an area that the NCAA team has failed to get right (or even close).

You would think they could tune this area - any running play labeled option gets a 20 point boost in blocking for the sliders. That seems like a simple calculation. Just do it for the cpu and I think many of us would be really happy.

Sinister
09-14-2010, 10:31 AM
at this point what i think needs tuned is linebacker jumping across the board, qb logic with option and scramblin in mind. I don't see the qb pitch the ball enough on options , qb scramblin to the left they always scramble to the right even if that's where the pressure is coming from.

steelerfan
09-15-2010, 06:24 PM
For comparison's sake, NHL 11 has been out 8 days and has had as many LTPs (3) as NCAA 11.

CLW
09-16-2010, 05:45 AM
For comparison's sake, NHL 11 has been out 8 days and has had as many LTPs (3) as NCAA 11.

Good lord. Was NHL 11 that bad or are you saying the NCAA 11 team isn't as "dedicated"?

Rudy
09-16-2010, 06:30 AM
I'd have to say that three tuning packs in 8 days seems ridiculous. Were these released at the same time and are they all different to cater to different crowds? How are they described and used?

steelerfan
09-16-2010, 10:25 AM
Nope, NHL played well out of the box. The LTPs have mainly addressed exploits online. There are some details in the NHL 11 thread, if you care.

I'm not going to say that any team is more oe less dedicated than another, but NHL does crank out SGotY awards like nobody's business.

Rudy
09-17-2010, 06:03 AM
I don't think it's fair to compare dedication either. I think all developers work hard. But it's certainly fair to compare objectives, goals, options and most importantly results. Effort is great but this isn't kindergarten. I expect good results.

Right now the NCAA team has completely underutilized the tuning sets imo. I think two of them were released at the same time as the patch so I don't even understand the point of those since the patch could have fixed them anyways. There are some areas that clearly need work and I would hope that the cpu running the spread would be one of them. They shouldn't just focus on the online aspects of a tuning file. Even if they can't fix the cpu logic on the option they should be able to boost the blocking on those particular plays. I'd love to know otherwise.

steelerfan
09-18-2010, 02:29 AM
I don't recall any particulars on the NCAA tuners, maybe they were tuning the patches.

Something that is nice in NHL, is that you can toggle through the tuner sets in the slider interface. In other words, you can have them all downloaded and saved but still choose to play with whichever one you like best without deleting any newer ones.

JeffHCross
09-18-2010, 07:12 PM
I don't recall any particulars on the NCAA tuners, maybe they were tuning the patches.

Something that is nice in NHL, is that you can toggle through the tuner sets in the slider interface. In other words, you can have them all downloaded and saved but still choose to play with whichever one you like best without deleting any newer ones.This is one big advantage of the NHL series; the ability to swap between tuners. That is huge for sliders afficianados.

It's definitely not fair to compare the teams based on Tuner Sets. NHL 10 didn't have its third tuner set until January last year. The NCAA team even beat that time period with their Tuner Set 3.

Also, as I look around the Net, it looks like there was a significant backlash against at least one of the Tuner Sets, so it's possible that Tuner Set 3 was put out there to replace Tuner Set 2 or something like that.

jaymo76
09-19-2010, 02:18 AM
You have to think this is the last tuner set... at some point this team has to commit fully to NCAA 12 and I suspect we are about at that point.

Rudy
09-19-2010, 04:30 AM
I don't think we will see another patch but I would bet we would see another tuning set. I hope this time they only make changes to the cpu for offline play (better spread option/shotgun blocking).

JeffHCross
09-19-2010, 08:29 AM
You have to think this is the last tuner set... at some point this team has to commit fully to NCAA 12 and I suspect we are about at that point.Tuner sets aren't a huge commitment from the team, so I wouldn't be surprised if we saw one more tuner set.

Definitely no more patches though.

cdj
09-19-2010, 10:07 AM
I doubt we see any additional patches unless a huge issues emerges, but based on the community event, I'd expect more Tuning Patches throughout the entire year.

Rudy
09-19-2010, 11:36 AM
I really hope they spend some focus on offline play and not just online and progression.

steelerfan
09-22-2010, 01:17 AM
NHL has another LTP scheduled for tonight and Redshirt_EA at OS said there will be another next week.

The most intriguing part of his posts is him saying that he sees a need for another tuning mechanism that would allow the user to mix parts of different LTPs together. For example, if you like one tuner set's shot accuracy and another's pass accuracy, you could use both.

He didn't say (and I seriously doubt) whether that is plausible for NHL 11, but it's something I've thought about with NHL doing so many LTPs. I'd love the option and would like to see it on NCAA's agenda as well.

More tuners and the ability to customize them offline is a dream for many of us!

Rudy
09-22-2010, 05:28 AM
It's amazing that the NHL team is doing all this stuff with tuners and sliders. They are really pushing the envelope while the NCAA/Madden teams seem scared to give the user too much control.

I know they probably worry about people not buying the new game but just charge them for another online pass to keep playing the old game past the release (plus one month) of the new game. That way guys who still want to play Madden 10/NCAA 11 would have to pay them another $10 to keep using their servers if they don't buy the new game.

Sinister
09-24-2010, 01:16 PM
the team did say they are not where nhl is with the tuner updates, but hey at least we have them in NCAA .

Rudy
09-25-2010, 05:17 AM
Madden didn't even include tuner updates at all. Weird how the teams behave differently with that stuff.

cdj
09-26-2010, 04:19 PM
Madden didn't even include tuner updates at all. Weird how the teams behave differently with that stuff.

I'm not sure, but I think they have it. They were able to fix the FG meter issue that popped up after the recent patch with a server side fix, so to me that indicates a tuning file or some sort of update that didn't require a patch. Perhaps Madden 11 downloads the latest file and we never know it?

JBHuskers
09-27-2010, 09:16 AM
I know for a fact that Tiger had it starting with the 10 title, and there was no downloading needed. This could be the case for certain things here on Madden, or maybe the way NCAA does it is just more visible with it's checking of it and you get to see the actual download of it.