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Roy38
07-13-2010, 11:21 AM
One slider I feel that could make a huge impact is the Player Min Speed Threshold. This slider, "raises or lowers the minimum actual in-game speed for players. A low setting will create the greatest speed difference between the slowest and fastest players in the game; a higher setting will narrow the disparity between slow and fast players" as per EA. This slider is located here:

Main Menu > Settings > House Rules > Gameplay Options > Player Min Speed Threshold

gschwendt
07-13-2010, 12:19 PM
I call it the NCAA09 WOGP slider.

Roy38
07-13-2010, 03:55 PM
I'm afraid to ask...what is the WOGP slider?

Roy38
07-13-2010, 03:56 PM
I plan on playing some Exhibition games on different skill levels to determine how much of an impact it can make. This may be "The Slider" to adjust to fine tune the game to our liking. In theory, the slower the setting should provide more disparity between the elite teams and the bottom feeders. It will also help showcase teams and players with speed and will allow them to make a bigger difference (like real life!). My first test will be Army (me) vs. Alabama (CPU) on Varsity skill level, 8 minute quarters, default sliders, with Player Min Speed Threshold (or PMST) set to 40 (default is 50).

Roy38
07-13-2010, 08:25 PM
Teams: Army (me) vs. Alabama (CPU)
Location: Army
Offensive Playbooks: Army and Alabama
Defensive Playbooks: 4-2-5 and Alabama
Skill Level: Varsity (first full game out of the box)
Quarter Length: 8 minutes
Sliders: Default except for PMST (40)

Stats (Army / Alabama):

Score: 34 / 15
First Downs: 15 / 15
Total Offense: 314 / 357
Rushes-Yards-TD: 36-80-3 / 21-114-1
Comp-Att-TD: 12-21-0 / 12-28-1
Passing Yards: 234 / 243
3rd Down Conversion: 6-13 (46%) / 7-11 (63%)
4th Down Conversion: 1-1 (100%) / 0-0 (0%)
2-Point Conv: 0-0 (0%) / 1-1 (100%)
Red Zone-TD-FG: 4-3-1 (100%) / 3-1-0 (33%)
Turnovers: 0 / 4
Fumbles Lost: 0 / 0
Intercepted: 0 / 4
PR Yards: 14 / -1
KR Yards: 56 / 134
Total Yards: 384 / 490
Punts-Average: 4-31.5 / 4-37.8
Penalties-Yards: 0-0 / 2-15
T.O.P: 23:59 / 12:56
Sacks: 1 / 2

Definitely a new breed of football. I didn't have any expectations going in since this was my first full game out of the box. All I wanted to do was play smart, limit mistakes, and grind the clock a little bit. I ended up winning the game, but I felt challenged the entire time. The score really doesn't indicate how close this game was. Turnovers we key to me winning. I got two hard earned interceptions inside my red zone to turn Alabama away from a couple of scoring opportunities. The other two interceptions were CPU bonehead mistakes. The CPU had a beautiful 30+ yard pass for a TD (a diving one at that) over two defenders that was wiped out due to a holding penalty. On the other hand, I did fumble once (I recovered) and had at least three passes that could have been picked off. Without the turnovers...dare I say it...I would've lost on Varsity difficulty for the first time ever. Alabama was noticeably better and faster than Army. After the 1st quarter, I went pretty conservatively defensively just to try to keep them in front of me. If I blitzed and didn't get pressure, they would get a big play. On to the next test...

Roy38
07-13-2010, 10:18 PM
Teams: Army (me) vs. Alabama (CPU)
Location: Alabama
Offensive Playbooks: Army and Alabama
Defensive Playbooks: 4-2-5 and Alabama
Skill Level: Varsity
Quarter Length: 8 minutes
Sliders: Default except for PMST (40)

Stats (Army / Alabama):

Score: 35 / 28
First Downs: 18 / 12
Total Offense: 305 / 312
Rushes-Yards-TD: 32-121-2 / 24-67-2
Comp-Att-TD: 13-23-0 / 15-25-2
Passing Yards: 184 / 245
3rd Down Conversion: 4-10 (40%) / 2-7 (28%)
4th Down Conversion: 0-0 (0%) / 0-0 (0%)
2-Point Conv: 1-1 (100%) / 0-0 (0%)
Red Zone-TD-FG: 4-2-2 (100%) / 2-2-0 (100%)
Turnovers: 1 / 2
Fumbles Lost: 1 / 1
Intercepted: 0 / 1
PR Yards: 0 / 30
KR Yards: 79 / 131
Total Yards: 384 / 473
Punts-Average: 4-42.0 / 4-34.8
Penalties-Yards: 1-6 / 1-5
T.O.P: 22:49 / 14:41
Sacks: 2 / 2

For my second game, I used the same philosophy from game #1 - play smart, limit mistakes, and grind the clock a little bit. Going in, I felt like I could lose the game being that 1) I got a little lucky the first time at Army and 2) The game was played at Alabama with home-field advantage in full effect. Sure enough, this one was one hell of a nail biter. I was ahead by a point mid-way through the 4th quarter, but my offense stalled and I was forced to punt. On Alabama's next series, they went no-huddle leaving me a little out of my of comfort zone. Next thing I know, I give up a huge pass down the sidelines putting Alabama up 28-27 with 3:30 to play. I proceeded to march down the field, score a touchdown and a 2-point conversion to put me up by 7 with 0:23 left and then managed to hang on. Again, I was really tested, but never felt cheated or abused by the CPU which is an awesome feeling. However, I should be getting these results from playing an equal team to Alabama. Army, in no way, shape or form, should not be able to compete with Alabama. I may be able to gain a few yards, even possibly score a touchdown, but never outright win - let alone two games in a row. More testing to come...

Roy38
07-13-2010, 11:52 PM
Changed PMST to (30)...

Teams: Army (me) vs. Alabama (CPU)
Location: Army
Offensive Playbooks: Army and Alabama
Defensive Playbooks: 4-2-5 and Alabama
Skill Level: Varsity
Quarter Length: 8 minutes
Sliders: Default except for PMST (30)

Stats (Army / Alabama):

Score: 35 / 28
First Downs: 12 / 19
Total Offense: 322 / 330
Rushes-Yards-TD: 38-104-3 / 29-105-1
Comp-Att-TD: 13-16-2 / 9-19-2
Passing Yards: 218 / 205
3rd Down Conversion: 3-9 (33%) / 2-9 (22%)
4th Down Conversion: 0-1 (0%) / 0-0 (0%)
2-Point Conv: 0-0 (0%) / 1-1 (100%)
Red Zone-TD-FG: 5-4-0 (80%) / 2-1-1 (100%)
Turnovers: 2 / 3
Fumbles Lost: 2 / 2
Intercepted: 0 / 1
PR Yards: 6 / 9
KR Yards: 99 / 114
Total Yards: 427 / 453
Punts-Average: 4-42.0 / 4-37.5
Penalties-Yards: 1-5 / 1-14
T.O.P: 23:41 / 14:48
Sacks: 0 / 2

For my third game, I used the same blueprint from before. I didn't know what to expect with a bigger speed discrepancy, but saw no difference from previous testing. At one point, I was ahead 28-10 and was feeling a laugher coming on. However, I got my first taste of the CPU making miracle plays to bring them back into the football game. Fumbles, multiple broken tackles, awesome throws into tight spots - the whole enchilada. I managed to keep them at arms length and won the game, but some of the cheapness returned. It helps that I'm learning Army's playbook and I have a good grasp of what Alabama likes to do, but I should still be getting my ass whipped routinely. I could play a perfect game and should still lose by 14+ points. I had a glimmer of hope early on as I was forced to punt the first three times I had the football, but then the floodgates opened and I didn't punt again until the 4th quarter. I think next time I'll dig deeper into PMST and take it to the bare minimum.

Roy38
07-14-2010, 03:28 AM
Changed PMST to (0)...

Teams: Army (me) vs. Alabama (CPU)
Location: Alabama
Offensive Playbooks: Army and Alabama
Defensive Playbooks: 4-2-5 and Alabama
Skill Level: Varsity
Quarter Length: 8 minutes
Sliders: Default except for PMST (0), changed game speed to "Slow", changed penalty sliders (All set to 100 except for "Holding", "Facemask", and "Clipping" set to 55), and tweaked KPW to 35 and KAC to 15.

Stats (Army / Alabama):

Score: 31 / 14
First Downs: 16 / 13
Total Offense: 366 / 372
Rushes-Yards-TD: 33-98-0 / 19-16-1
Comp-Att-TD: 13-23-2 / 16-32-0
Passing Yards: 268 / 356
3rd Down Conversion: 7-12 (58%) / 4-14 (28%)
4th Down Conversion: 0-0 (0%) / 2-2 (100%)
2-Point Conv: 0-0 (0%) / 0-0 (0%)
Red Zone-TD-FG: 4-2-1 (75%) / 3-1-0 (33%)
Turnovers: 1 / 2
Fumbles Lost: 0 / 1
Intercepted: 1 / 1
PR Yards: 2 / 12
KR Yards: 60 / 117
Total Yards: 428 / 501
Punts-Average: 4-40.3 / 3-37.0
Penalties-Yards: 3-25 / 4-60
T.O.P: 21:56 / 14:56
Sacks: 3 / 3

For my fourth game, I tried to be a little more wide-open in terms of offense. I used more downfield passing while maintaining my running game. I noticed no difference in terms of player speed when setting PMST to (0) which should've given me the highest speed differential. I'm beginning to wonder if the slider has any effect at all and if it is broken. The game was close heading into the 4th quarter (I was ahead 10-7). I scored a TD, followed it up with a Fumble Forced and Fumble Recovery for a TD on their next possession, and then got a pressure QB hit turning his errant throw into a pick-6 to go up 31-7 the very next series. I will note that Alabama missed three easy FG's due to my slider tweaking, so the game would've been much closer. I like what I'm getting in terms of offensive production, but these results should be between evenly matched teams - not from one of the worst 1* teams vs. the best 6* team. The penalties were much better, but they were the same penalties that are always called in the history of the NCAA franchise. Last note: Varsity level at default slider settings is fairly easy. If you're looking for a competitive game with a weak team that gives you a chance to win every game, this is the setting for you. Otherwise, the sliders need to be adjusted or a move up in difficulty.

JeffHCross
07-14-2010, 10:22 AM
I'm afraid to ask...what is the WOGP slider?Wide Open Gameplay

JeffHCross
07-14-2010, 10:26 AM
Roy, you said you changed PMST to 0 and changed Game Speed to Slow. Those two could both have an effect. "Slow" may even all-but-neutralize the effect of PMST.

It's also worth mentioning that because of Locomotion's changes to the influence of SPD vs ACC, I don't think differences in SPD are going to be effectively noticable. Probably the only way to really test the slider would be in Practice mode ... running 40 yard dashes, effectively.

Personally, I think Game Speed will have an effect on gameplay this year, but PMST will have practically none.

morsdraconis
07-14-2010, 10:44 AM
Roy, you said you changed PMST to 0 and changed Game Speed to Slow. Those two could both have an effect. "Slow" may even all-but-neutralize the effect of PMST.

It's also worth mentioning that because of Locomotion's changes to the influence of SPD vs ACC, I don't think differences in SPD are going to be effectively noticable. Probably the only way to really test the slider would be in Practice mode ... running 40 yard dashes, effectively.

Personally, I think Game Speed will have an effect on gameplay this year, but PMST will have practically none.

But shouldn't the PMST change the difference in speed where the CPU should have guys running down the field wide open because the defenders don't have enough speed to catch them? Or crossing routes should be more open because the defenders aren't as quick to cover them?

Seems to me pushing PMST to 0, leaving the game speed at normal would result in huge passing plays for the CPU elite team.

Maybe, instead of playing against Alabama, play against a team that's more likely to attack down the field, like Texas.

Roy38
07-14-2010, 11:22 AM
Roy, you said you changed PMST to 0 and changed Game Speed to Slow. Those two could both have an effect. "Slow" may even all-but-neutralize the effect of PMST.

It's also worth mentioning that because of Locomotion's changes to the influence of SPD vs ACC, I don't think differences in SPD are going to be effectively noticable. Probably the only way to really test the slider would be in Practice mode ... running 40 yard dashes, effectively.

Personally, I think Game Speed will have an effect on gameplay this year, but PMST will have practically none.

I wouldn't think changing the game speed would have any effect on player attributes. I think of game speed like using a DVD player - I can advance the movie frame-by-frame or watch it in fast forward. I do agree that locomotion, in particular acceleration, minimizes the effect of overall speed. I assumed PMST would allow for better separation. If my 80 Speed CB with 90 Acceleration is matched up on a WR with 95 Speed and 90 Acceleration, the WR should beat the CB easily and noticeably. However, in my testing, I'm not seeing the difference expected.

Roy38
07-14-2010, 01:56 PM
But shouldn't the PMST change the difference in speed where the CPU should have guys running down the field wide open because the defenders don't have enough speed to catch them? Or crossing routes should be more open because the defenders aren't as quick to cover them?

Seems to me pushing PMST to 0, leaving the game speed at normal would result in huge passing plays for the CPU elite team.

Maybe, instead of playing against Alabama, play against a team that's more likely to attack down the field, like Texas.

I'm not sure that's the answer. Alabama did test me deep and over the middle often, but my defenders hung with them frequently. Even when Alabama had a one-on-one matchup with no safety help, my defenders stayed with them stride for stride. If they did catch a deep pass, I was in position to make the tackle. Granted, Alabama doesn't have burners at WR, but they are better than any CB that I could throw at them. I should be extremely uncomfortable running a Cover 0 defense against them and I never felt that way once.

From my offensive prospective, I was able to complete a few deep throws of my own. I was getting enough separation to make comfortable throws all over the field. I did generate a few big plays - for instance I ran a play where my B-Back ran a streak down the center of the field. Alabama called a defense to double my outside WR's with both safeties which left my B-Back one-on-one against a LB. He got great separation, I got time in the pocket, made a beautiful throw, and hit him in stride. However, I didn't score as the LB did make up ground and tackled him for a 55 yard gain.

JeffHCross
07-15-2010, 06:54 PM
But shouldn't the PMST change the difference in speed where the CPU should have guys running down the field wide open because the defenders don't have enough speed to catch them?Yes, and no. I can't remember the exact numbers from the Locomotion discussions, but there's a distance between the line of scrimmage and when the players will reach full speed. In normal gameplay, you're not going to have many plays where the players are racing 100% throttle down the field. And certainly you're not going to notice speed differences unless you're controlling them.

So, unless you're breaking running plays out into the open often, or running 40 yd dashes in practice, you're not going to see much effect, imo.

Or crossing routes should be more open because the defenders aren't as quick to cover them?Crossing routes would be all about acceleration and agility. Top speed isn't going to have an influence there.

morsdraconis
07-15-2010, 07:19 PM
Played around with the Min Speed Threshold some on Heisman in practice with WVU as both teams.

Edited Brunetti to have 99 throwing accuracy and power (best case scenario stuff)

Put Tevon Austin (94 spd and 96 acc) in at WR2 against the slowest DB WVU has on the roster (64 ovr FS Darwin Cook with 86 spd and 88 acc) and ran streaks with Austin with no help coverage (one on one coverage).

The throw is always no pressure not lofting it up (just a solid mid throw).

And I'm not noticing ANY difference at all on Heisman. At 50 and at 0, Cook still occasionally gets beat, but never gets absolutely blown away like you think he should with a disparity of 8 points in speed and acceleration.

So, next, I edit Cook to only have 80 speed and acceleration and leave the speed threshold at 0.

Even with this setting, sure, Tevon always beats him (if you take control of him and hit speed burst) but it's still not the drastic difference in speed that you would expect 94/96 and 80/80 to represent.

Leads me to believe that Heisman is giving the CPU unnatural boosts in speed.


Next, I try it on Freshman with the final setup to see if there's any difference.

And I FINALLY see the separation that you would think as it's finally a 5 yard separation or so between them. But it's on FRESHMAN difficulty...

Next I push the pass coverage slider up to 100 to see if there's a difference.

And no, there's no difference between the two, even with the slider all the way up.

Next, I put the speed difference slider back at 50 to see if it's just the difficulty change making the difference.

And it appears to not make a bit of difference at 50. Still beating him by 5 yards of separation on Freshman difficulty.

Next I up it to 100 on the slider to see if there's any difference at all.

And it too doesn't make a difference.

So, from this we've learned two things:

1 - Difficulty causes a DRASTIC change in the abilities of the players on the field.

2 - The speed min/max threshold slider APPEARS to do nothing at the moment.

JeffHCross
07-15-2010, 07:24 PM
Sadly, none of that surprises me, mors. Good info to have though.

morsdraconis
07-15-2010, 07:25 PM
Additional information:

Tried the last setup (100 CPU Pass Coverage, 100 Min Threshold slider, same players and play setup) but on Varsity, All-American, and Heisman.

Varsity: 4 yards of separation

All-American: 3 yards of separation

Heisman: 2 yards of separation



Conclusion: Difficulty most definitely has a drastic effect on the ability of the player to keep up with faster players.

AustinWolv
07-15-2010, 09:08 PM
Good experiment.

The difference between a 4.4 and 4.7 guy at the 40 yard mark is about 11 feet.

Somewhat related and for a laugh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU_3encGVP4

Roy38
07-15-2010, 09:52 PM
Additional information:

Tried the last setup (100 CPU Pass Coverage, 100 Min Threshold slider, same players and play setup) but on Varsity, All-American, and Heisman.

Varsity: 4 yards of separation

All-American: 3 yards of separation

Heisman: 2 yards of separation



Conclusion: Difficulty most definitely has a drastic effect on the ability of the player to keep up with faster players.

Did you mean (0) or (100) for Player Min Speed Threshold? Huge difference there - if it's working! In theory, setting PMST to (0) should yield the greatest separation while (100) should tighten them up.

Roy38
07-15-2010, 09:59 PM
I try it on Freshman with the final setup to see if there's any difference.

And I FINALLY see the separation that you would think as it's finally a 5 yard separation or so between them. But it's on FRESHMAN difficulty...

Do we dare look at Freshman difficulty and play with sliders (putting on mad scientist hat...) for dynasty purposes? :D

jaymo76
07-15-2010, 11:02 PM
I would love to hear from the EA developers on this as to what their goals/purposes were. Simply to add the "feature" but not discuss its nature nor effectiveness seems a little silly IMO. I moved mine to 45 and then 40 and saw no real difference so for the sake of argument I just put it back to 50 and I suspect that is where it will stay for now.

morsdraconis
07-15-2010, 11:16 PM
Did you mean (0) or (100) for Player Min Speed Threshold? Huge difference there - if it's working! In theory, setting PMST to (0) should yield the greatest separation while (100) should tighten them up.

Toward the end, I had it at 100 Min/Max (so the difference shouldn't be as much) and was still seeing little to no separation on Heisman compared to greater separation Freshman with the same settings. The slider didn't appear to be doing anything to dictate the separation, the difficulty was.

Kingpin32
07-16-2010, 12:44 AM
I used this slider for Madden 09. It definitely shows who has elite speed in the league, and I always played with it on 0, so if a person had 99 speed, a person with 90 speed wasn't going to catch up to him.

Roy38
07-20-2010, 09:41 PM
Toward the end, I had it at 100 Min/Max (so the difference shouldn't be as much) and was still seeing little to no separation on Heisman compared to greater separation Freshman with the same settings. The slider didn't appear to be doing anything to dictate the separation, the difficulty was.

I'm not following you...if you had the PMST slider set to (100), there would be little separation between the players anyway. If the slider was set to (0), you should see even more separation between the players - if it's working properly. Maybe it's how you're wording it, but it's confusing me!

I do understand that difficulty level has an effect on player separation. Player separation gets narrower as difficulty level increases. In theory, PMST set to (0) should widen those gaps back up.

JeffHCross
07-20-2010, 10:48 PM
I'm not following you...if you had the PMST slider set to (100), there would be little separation between the players anyway. If the slider was set to (0), you should see even more separation between the players - if it's working properly. Maybe it's how you're wording it, but it's confusing me!He's basically saying that whether it was at 0 or 100, on Heisman there was little to no separation, whereas on Freshman there was greater separation.

I still think that the Locomotion changes nullified any impact this slider would have had. I'm very intrigued to see if Madden 11 has any PMST slider impact, because on Madden 10 it did have some impact. I'm guessing that will be nullified on Madden 11 just like NCAA.

morsdraconis
07-21-2010, 12:27 AM
He's basically saying that whether it was at 0 or 100, on Heisman there was little to no separation, whereas on Freshman there was greater separation.

Actually, there appeared to be no differential at all with the slider on down the field coverage. Apparently this slider does absolutely nothing for coverages and pretty much only affects speed out of the backfield relative to the defender and RB/QB getting separation from the line of scrimmage without being ran down by 320 pound defensive lineman.

AustinWolv
07-21-2010, 08:16 AM
There is a thread about this on OS with actual numbers.......

Roy38
07-21-2010, 10:18 AM
He's basically saying that whether it was at 0 or 100, on Heisman there was little to no separation, whereas on Freshman there was greater separation.

I still think that the Locomotion changes nullified any impact this slider would have had. I'm very intrigued to see if Madden 11 has any PMST slider impact, because on Madden 10 it did have some impact. I'm guessing that will be nullified on Madden 11 just like NCAA.

Gotcha. I had a feeling this is what he meant, but wanted to make sure.

Roy38
07-21-2010, 10:23 AM
Actually, there appeared to be no differential at all with the slider on down the field coverage. Apparently this slider does absolutely nothing for coverages and pretty much only affects speed out of the backfield relative to the defender and RB/QB getting separation from the line of scrimmage without being ran down by 320 pound defensive lineman.

I agree. PMST appears to only effect the player with the football, which is a shame. This slider had potential to be a major game changer, but in reality, it's wasted space.

morsdraconis
07-21-2010, 10:27 AM
There is a thread about this on OS with actual numbers.......

Care to link to/quote the numbers from that thread?

I'm interested but I hate their forum layout cause it takes 3 years to find something.

AustinWolv
07-21-2010, 10:47 AM
http://www.operationsports.com/forums/ncaa-football-sliders/428499-game-speed-threshold-testing-statistics.html


I ran 40 yard dash in practice mode with offense only with >90 speed and acceleration vs 80 speed and acceleration. I tested this from a standstill with a stopwatch. Real world values were gathered from the NFL combines published numbers for all LB and RB. I used LB and RB because this coverage in the flats is the main issue. I tested for Default settings and normal speed, slow speed with default threshold and 0 and 100 threshold.

See the table below:

Real
world
Default Slow 100
thresh
0
thresh
HB 4.53 4.53 4.88 4.48 4.34
LB 4.69 4.72 5.11 4.68 4.9


The results show that the default sliders are accurate for RB 40 times but not for LB though actually not very far off. Slow speed setting markedly leads to unrealistic values for both thoug it maintains the 0.2 sec difference. I do not recommend slow if you want real world values, but it maintains the balance and should not effect gameplay. The 100 threshold slider did not actually narrow the gap anymore but did improve the LB speed (I noticed acceleration was having the biggest impact; I also suspec the HB values may not be accurate, median was still 4.55). 0 threshold had a massive impact on decreasing HB time and increasing LB time widening the gap to 0.6 sec difference. Increasing the threshold value towards 100 should result in more realistic 40 times and hence linebacker coverage in the flats. Tonight I will perform testing at 60/70/80/90 to find best value with 20 measurements each.

Summary: Speed should be normal for realistic running times, Threshold slider at 50 is actually


Here are the finished results. I finally decided to perform the test from the 35 yard line since there is no block and jump like in real 40 time and this gave close to reealistic HB and LB times. I used a LB with 80 stats for accel and speed and HB with 90 accel and 90 speed. 40 time mostly reflects acceleration so unsure of this impact on deep routes but I feel they need to adjust acceleration for this game as this stat is a bit overpowered currently.

Real NFL statistics:
average time LB: 4.7 sec
average time HB: 4.5 sec
average time WR: 4.5-4.6 sec
average difference LB and HB: 0.2 sec

NCAA football stastics:
Slider HB LB Diff
\50 4.341 4.760 -0.419
60 4.332 4.639 -0.307
70 4.326 4.614 -0.288
80 4.345 4.577 -0.232
90 4.377 4.584 -0.207
100 4.356 4.524 -0.168


You can easily see that this followed a very nice progression of about 0.4-0.5 decrease int he gap per 10 change in the slider. My 40 times are not realiable since they are estimates of times so the most important factor is the difference between the HB and LB. You can see that the NFL combine statistics would require a slider setting of 90 to be accurate. However, it is well know that college defenses are slower than NFL which is a main difference therefore the likely gap for NCAA should be around 0.250. I am going to set my sliders at 75 which will likley give a gap of around 0.250 and if my values for HB and LB were off by 0.15 (diff between real HB and my stats) the linebacker speed would be around 4.7 (4.60 + 0.15).

Summary: Slider settings between 70 and 80 should give real world 40 times to players and allow LB to cover both WR, TE, and HB. Hopefully this will improve coverage on crossing routes and flats.

Next: Will subjectively examine the impact of 0, 50, 75, 100 on flats and crossing routes against man and zone coverage.


After subjective testing I have found the following to be true:

1. Coverage of crossing and drag routes is poor as these are almost 100% effective against man coverage.

2. Zone coverage is relatively uneffected by this though I noted less gains with LB closing more quickly.

3. This is insanely hard. LB can remain in fairly close coverage of even wide recievers downfield so big gains are remarkably reduced. Downfield passing seems extremely difficult. This can be fixed by reducing the pass coverage slider and a setting of 40 seemed to open up passing a bit more. Unfortunately this is for human. The CPU seemed to not have much difficulty finding open recievers still (on short routes). I have ultimately decided to go with a slider setting of 70.



This is on AA. The developers have stated for several years that the game is not intended to be sim on Heisman as the CPU has unrealistic completeoin % and decision making etc... on this level. They have previously stated that AA is the level they shoot for making realistic.

jaymo76
07-22-2010, 12:17 AM
No offense, but after reading through all the info I will leave the threshold at 45 (at set it at this on day one) and continue to play on slow. I'm happy with the way I have the game playing and I am getting lost in the details. I kind of wish the threshold wasn't in the game as EA has zero meaningful feedback on it.

Rudy
09-14-2010, 10:16 AM
Any consensus on this? I haven't messed with this slider at all and just curious if people think this is one area that should be left alone.

jaymo76
09-19-2010, 02:11 AM
Any consensus on this? I haven't messed with this slider at all and just curious if people think this is one area that should be left alone.

Still have mine at 45 and at this point I don't see any reason to change it. I like how the speed is and have no complaints. My .02c

morsdraconis
09-19-2010, 02:59 AM
Still have mine at 45 and at this point I don't see any reason to change it. I like how the speed is and have no complaints. My .02c

I found some sliders with 15 as the setting is it's pretty damn good in my opinion. Speed actually means something again and it greatly helps with being able to run the ball outside again (without it being cheap).

Rudy
09-19-2010, 04:29 AM
I may experiment by lowering this a bit but I play on Slow. I think that has an effect too right?

morsdraconis
09-19-2010, 09:46 AM
I may experiment by lowering this a bit but I play on Slow. I think that has an effect too right?

Oh yeah, most definitely. I play on Normal so there's definitely a difference.

JeffHCross
09-19-2010, 08:56 PM
Oneback's sliders run with it at 15, I believe. I've had both fast players and "okay" speed players on my team. The ones that should be caught get caught, the ones that shouldn't are able to escape once they get into the open field. 15, at least on Normal, seems very good. I would think 15 on Slow would be about the same, as well.

tko27
09-20-2010, 10:03 AM
Oneback's sliders run with it at 15, I believe. I've had both fast players and "okay" speed players on my team. The ones that should be caught get caught, the ones that shouldn't are able to escape once they get into the open field. 15, at least on Normal, seems very good. I would think 15 on Slow would be about the same, as well.

Hey guys, long time lurker first time poster. I play with my speed threshold on 15 and find it to work great. I have even played with it at 10 and like that as well. I think this helps separate the good/great teams from the average teams. I got sick of playing at 45 and seeing my bad teams (Ohio, Western Mich, SMU) keep up with or even outrun the good teams (Texas Tech, Ohio State, Michigan State). With a lowered speed threshold the separation between faster players and average speed players is noticable and an actual advantage for better teams.

My biggest complaint was the fact that my corners with 85 spd and 82 acceleration were keeping up with and defending passes on their 90+ spd 90+ acc receivers. This should not happen. Lowering the speed threshold to 10/15 opens this up and makes a big difference, especially on streak routes and in the open field.

Rudy
09-20-2010, 03:48 PM
TKO, what difficulty do you play on? I've read more on this lately and the default threshold changes by difficulty. On Varsity there is a much bigger gap than Heisman. Default 50 on AA is more like 25 on Heisman or maybe 75 on Varsity (rough numbers). I'm going to try threshold @25 on Heisman, maybe even 0, and see how it plays.

tko27
09-20-2010, 04:06 PM
TKO, what difficulty do you play on? I've read more on this lately and the default threshold changes by difficulty. On Varsity there is a much bigger gap than Heisman. Default 50 on AA is more like 25 on Heisman or maybe 75 on Varsity (rough numbers). I'm going to try threshold @25 on Heisman, maybe even 0, and see how it plays.

Thats interesting Rudy, I had no idea it was different for each difficulty level. I play all of my games on Heisman, which is probably why people who play on AA say to keep it at 50. I also play on game speed Slow. When I play on 45/50 on Heisman there is almost no separation between average players and great players. Unless you lower it to 20 or lower you won't really see much of a difference, or at least a realistic difference. I think 10 or 15 is perfect, and even 0 isn't bad.

Rudy
09-20-2010, 04:14 PM
I was reading this thread on OS and saw this guy's test (he sounds reasonable enough). http://www.operationsports.com/forums/ncaa-football-sliders/432687-varsity-vs-aa-vs-heismann-explained-along-threshold-effects-testing.html

Setting Threshold HB LB Diff
Varsity 0 4.11 4.63 0.52
50 4.02 4.49 0.47
100 4.03 4.35 0.3
Heisman 0 4.31 4.8 0.48
50 4.3 4.62 0.325
100 4.16 4.35 0.19

He said All American was in the middle but in his testing between the RB (90 speed) and LB (80 speed) there was a 0.47 second 40 yard time difference at default Varsity, 0.40 for AA (just used middle) and only 0.33 on Heisman. Default Heisman was equivalent to 0 on Varsity. So I figure default AA would be about 25 on Heisman.

I'm playing on Slow with Heisman as well and haven't played with this but I do think I need a great separation to distinguish the scat backs and fast WRs. I'll try 15 tonight if I get a chance and see how that plays.

tko27
09-20-2010, 04:40 PM
Let me know what you think. Honestly I've had great results on 15, 10(probably my favorite), and 0. If you don't feel like you get what you want on 15, try 10. If u don't like 10, try 0. I think you will like any of these better than what you have been playing with.

Rudy
09-20-2010, 06:26 PM
I will. I'm going to try and get my dynasty game with Michigan against Illinois tonight. I think I'll try 10 then and see how much of a difference I see. Will this affect the pass coverage? I've read some people say you need to tweak some sliders to account for changes.

morsdraconis
09-20-2010, 08:00 PM
I will. I'm going to try and get my dynasty game with Michigan against Illinois tonight. I think I'll try 10 then and see how much of a difference I see. Will this affect the pass coverage? I've read some people say you need to tweak some sliders to account for changes.

It will definitely affect pass coverage. How significantly? Not entirely sure.

Rudy
09-21-2010, 04:48 AM
I played one game at 10. I didn't see a huge difference in gameplay which I'm happy about. I did notice my fast WRs getting behind the secondary a little more. I'm going to leave it at 10 for awhile and see how I like it. This may help when running the spread.

I don't know how much this should affect coverage because DBs vs WRs that are the same speed should not be affected. A faster DB should actually be better. What will hurt is when the cpu tries to run too many LBs out there against the spread and have them cover WRs which is stupid anyway and something I saw FAR too much last night. Illinois kept running out base defenses against 3 and 4 WRs and they were also using a ton of double CB blitzes and other stupid stuff. I had to pass 70% of the time and hit some big plays in a 37-7 route. They do blow but I wanted to work on running the option but their personel and defensive calls made that very hard.

AustinWolv
09-21-2010, 09:29 AM
I tried it at 20 last night on Heisman with slow gamespeed. My 98 speed running back became a real weapon if he got into open field as he should be. I enjoyed the settings greatly. I agree with Rudy that I saw my fast and quick WRs get downfield a bit more realistically versus slower CBs. My WR was a 94 speed guy with 86 accel, and it was his accel that got him a couple steps on the CB 40 yards downfield who had 80 accel and 92 speed. My RB was getting run down routinely on 50 threshhold on Heisman, so I'm liking the 20 much better. Will have to play a couple more games against various competition to see if that is good to go or maybe if I want to close the gap a bit to 25. I also liked the 20 since the read option opened up a touch more as well.

tko27
09-21-2010, 11:34 AM
I'm glad you saw a difference Rudy. For the longest time I followed others slider sets and used their settings, but was always unsatisfied with the amount of separation my faster WRs/RBs would get against inferior opponents. I finally saw the difference I wanted when I dropped down to 15 and have kind of settled in on 10 at the moment. It does make for a disadvantage at LB sometimes, but if you recruit LBs well enough with speed and play smart (don't isolate a LB with man coverage on a WR) then that disadvantage is minimal. LBs with decent speed can match up with most TEs perfectly. Be a smart coach and don't leave your weaker players covering better/faster guys.

As for you Austin, have you tried dropping it down to 10? Or even 15? I think you may find it a little closer to real life than 20/25. But that is just me, everybody is different. I guess the most important thing is to find the setting you like best and play with it. Some people love 45 or 50. Hey, if that works for them then all the power to them.

Rudy
09-21-2010, 04:08 PM
Maybe I'll split you guys and use 15 on my next game. I have Northwestern next.

tko27
09-21-2010, 05:02 PM
Maybe I'll split you guys and use 15 on my next game. I have Northwestern next.

Let me know what you think. Post your reactions after the game when you get a chance.

AustinWolv
09-21-2010, 06:05 PM
As for you Austin, have you tried dropping it down to 10? Or even 15? I think you may find it a little closer to real life than 20/25. But that is just me, everybody is different. I guess the most important thing is to find the setting you like best and play with it. Some people love 45 or 50. Hey, if that works for them then all the power to them.
Haven't tried 10 or 15 yet.
I think I'm going to toy with 20 for at least another game and check how plays are working out, as that long TD on the streak to the WR that I mentioned looked pretty good.....WR had 2-2.5 yards at the catch point on the CB......and then I'll try 15 perhaps for a couple games. Don't want to drop it too far down to make it too much like an arcade game where speed trumps everything.

Rudy
09-22-2010, 05:25 AM
Played my game this morning. 15 seemed good. Too hard to tell in a couple quick games but I do like the threshold dropped on Heisman. The fast players come alive more.

CLW
09-29-2010, 10:04 AM
I think I'm going to drop mine down to 15 on Heisman. That seems to be the "magic" number most people are using.

Rudy
09-29-2010, 03:54 PM
Quite frankly, I kind of like 0 on Heisman. I'm going to be trying that for the next while.

jaymo76
11-07-2010, 05:55 PM
Thread has been updated lately but any "news" on threshold. I have used 45 from the beginning but I feel the need to tinker. I have a speed back 5* and the guys gets run down by LB's far too often. What is the current consensus?

Rudy
11-08-2010, 05:35 AM
I like it at 0 for Heisman.

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
11-08-2010, 09:04 AM
if im not on heisman... i play at 0, and game speed very fast, its the only way you can get a realistic spread option game... otherwise on heisman fast game speed and 10... i work and work and work to try and match the numbers of the real ducks.... and its tough but thats about the only way i can have it set up to SORT OF mimic the real life counterparts...

"E"

jaymo76
11-08-2010, 10:27 PM
Hmmm... maybe I will try zero tonight. I played a game at 25 and found no difference between that and 50, 45, or 40.

Rudy
11-09-2010, 05:36 AM
They are subtle differences Jaymo. I think you have to really change it to see a big difference. Remember that the base threshold is different for each difficulty as well.

jaymo76
11-11-2010, 02:48 PM
Well I have played three games on AA with ZERO as the threshhold. I don't know how I feel about it. I find that the run game and speed backs for the hum and cpu teams are really strong. It's good to see the run game back with zero threshold. As Ohio against OSU the backkup RB for Ohio St. had a 9.1 ypc avg! My D was brutal. However, the downside to the zero threshold has to be the ease of the user passing game. My Ohio QB, a junior with avg. skills at best went 23-29 for 389 yards and three TD's and Ohio beat OSU 38-27. The slant routes are money for 10+ yards everytime as the LB's and DB's just can't cover. As well, you get real seperation on the long ball. It kind of reminds me of an 06 (ps2) and an 09 (ps3) hybrid. Now my user passing is set at 15. I need to test out moving the cpu pass covg. way up. What are people using for cpu pass covg.?

jaymo76
11-11-2010, 06:26 PM
Just played the number 1 ranked game in my dynasty. I took Arizona St (10) to Baton Rouge to take on LSU (16). What a game! I won 33-31 on a last minute drive for a 30+ yard field goal. LSU's starting RB scorched me for a 13.5 ypc avg and well over 150 yards. However, I lowered cpu QB to 10 and the cpu QB was still lights out. I have moved my pass covg back to 50 to help in this area. I will say however that I now believe ZERO is the best threshold setting. The game played very much like it used to before any of the patches.

jaymo76
07-18-2011, 12:34 PM
Just to revive this thread, what is the consensus of the threshold this year? Last year I used ZERO but I'm not feeling it this year. I currently am using 30 threshold and find it offers a fair balance

umhester04
07-18-2011, 01:36 PM
Just to revive this thread, what is the consensus of the threshold this year? Last year I used ZERO but I'm not feeling it this year. I currently am using 30 threshold and find it offers a fair balance


I agree with you jaymo, I am currently bouncing back and forth between 25 and 30. I actually can't really put my finger on what the difference is but there definitely is a difference between these numbers. Unless of course I am paranoid.

Rudy
07-18-2011, 03:51 PM
I'm still using 0 on Heisman which I like.

roccogator
07-20-2011, 08:37 AM
Got mine set at 30 on AA. Started with 0, tried 43, but 30 feels good to me. I will play a couple of games tonight at 35.

What difference are you guys seeing between 30 and 35?

ussr8219
07-27-2011, 01:40 AM
so what does the Game Spped have to do with the Game- Hence very slow slow normal and fast? im lost on that one. play mine on heisman, PSTH 0, game speed normal. i appreciate the help, or knowledge. thanks rick.

jaymo76
07-27-2011, 12:39 PM
so what does the Game Spped have to do with the Game- Hence very slow slow normal and fast? im lost on that one. play mine on heisman, PSTH 0, game speed normal. i appreciate the help, or knowledge. thanks rick.

It's just how FAST all players move during the game. The threshold determines how much of a difference there is between fast and slow players within your game speed. Personally I love slow as it seems more realistic. This year my threshold is 30 though last year I went with zero. In truth I find the threshold speed to be a little more accurate this year.

ussr8219
07-27-2011, 01:13 PM
thank you jaymo. im glad i found this website. ill be trying that out.