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Keontez
06-23-2010, 05:00 AM
Seeing how I never really fooled around with them in last gen. How do these work, are you able to build formation packages out of these? or will they just be full on substitution.

Say I sub in 2 DEs at DT. Will they stay there no matter what or will they work as a additional formation package?

Thanks in advance.

oweb26
06-23-2010, 06:49 AM
What happens is in ANY given formation you can put whomever you want at any position and go from there, yes they will stay there if you do it from the roster menu and not in game menu when you hit pause.


So lets say in the Weak I formation you like your power back instead of your speedster running that formation, then you will go into formation subs and put him back there instead of your speedster.

Another good thing about it is on kickofff return you dont want your MVP running around making tackles then you simply sub his ass out and put in a scrub.

Jayrah
06-23-2010, 01:50 PM
Apparently this year they've added special teams to the mix as well, so you can set all of your formations the way you like. If you don't want starters out there getting injured during kickoffs, you can not have them in. It's only available in the dynasty menu though, from what I understand, so you'll have to set them during the week. You can still update your depth chart and use packages in game, but it will not stay that way after the game is over.

I didn't use it ever before last season with Madden, and I loved it. Especially defensively, I could bring in situational formations and keep my line fresh. I also rolled packages quite a bit last year with NCAA, so this gives me less hassle in that regard. I need to start reading up on my teams to get a feel for my formation sub packages, actually. It's about that time.

fsuprime
06-23-2010, 04:27 PM
i used to use it all the time to put in the right LBs for nickel and Dime formations, and for special teams back in the last gen series...ill never understand why they had to take it out.

AustinWolv
06-23-2010, 04:40 PM
Very excited about having it back.

Rudy
06-23-2010, 09:10 PM
I used it all the time on the PS2. I used it mainly to have a good rotation for my running backs - big backs in power sets, scat back in multiple WR sets, etc. I also loved using it to rotate guys through my front seven. My stud backup LB would get some time in the nickel. I'd put better pass rushers in certain spots.

One thing that I didn't like about the depth chart changes is how much certain guys would take a hit when moved. A stud OLB should be able to be a rush End in the nickel/dime without too much of a hit. NCAA still has the packages - I'd love to know if they calculate the positional changes the same way as formation subs or if they are more lenient with awareness hits.

ebin
06-23-2010, 11:41 PM
Very excited about having it back.

Yeah, I'm stoked. This will make it so much easier to get backups playing time.

psusnoop
06-24-2010, 12:13 PM
I think this feature is awesome. I love rotating my D-line and this will help with that. I also use it for RB's like Rudy said earlier.

JBHuskers
06-24-2010, 12:20 PM
I never really used it in Gen2, but I will probably dabble in it this year.

psusnoop
06-24-2010, 12:27 PM
I never really used it in Gen2, but I will probably dabble in it this year.

For me it was a chance to get those RS FR a few snaps in a couple of formations that I don't call normally. Like the basic Nickle package, even the 4-4 (though I might dabble a little bit with that this year).

I think one interesting thought is the match up problems that you can create in the games. If before the game I notice a user has his best CB in the top spot, I might make a few situational changes to my best WR and move him around a little bit to create some match up problems. Same works both ways as well. I know some of my friends who hammer their slot wr's all the time are going to get a healthy dose of CB #1 playing the slot WR's just because I know they fear throwing outside the hashes.

Solidice
06-24-2010, 12:30 PM
I like that I'll finally be able to select who will be on special teams. no more WRs who can't tackle on kickoff.

psusnoop
06-24-2010, 12:32 PM
I like that as well. I usually put in 4th and 5th string CB's as well as back up FS and SS's in there too. I usually take out the back up FB too since they always seem to have them in there as well.

AustinWolv
06-24-2010, 01:20 PM
Yep, I like that also. It would be niftier if playing guys in such situations helped their development.

Do you guys change out positions in your 3-4, 4-3, or 3-3 stuff also? For example, go with a big safety at OLB and move to a smaller, more mobile DE/big LB in the 4-3 base to be more flexible?

Solidice
06-24-2010, 01:34 PM
Yep, I like that also. It would be niftier if playing guys in such situations helped their development.

Do you guys change out positions in your 3-4, 4-3, or 3-3 stuff also? For example, go with a big safety at OLB and move to a smaller, more mobile DE/big LB in the 4-3 base to be more flexible?

I normally don't mess with defense too much. I typically run the 4-2-5 defense, so I'll try to get my 2 best LBs on the field in that formation. If I have a fast OLB, I might put him in as one of the SS.

I thought about using the Multiple D playbook, and setting it up like a 3-4 defense. so the 4-3 formations, move one of the DE to the DT spot, then that vacant DE spot move an OLB there. so it would be an 3-4 defense with an OLB in a DE stance. not sure how that would work in the game though. something I'll have to test I suppose.

cdj
06-24-2010, 06:45 PM
I'm just looking forward to being able to recruit deeper and in greater detail with formation subs. Instead of worrying mainly about the 1s, now I can get great run blockers in there for power formations and pass blockers in on shotgun formations, mobile QBs in on certain formations, better run blockers in at WR when running the option, etc. It's great timing (coincidental or otherwise) that we have formation subs back the same year recruiting gets an overhaul as well as the ability to recruit online.

psusnoop
06-24-2010, 07:04 PM
I'm just looking forward to being able to recruit deeper and in greater detail with formation subs. Instead of worrying mainly about the 1s, now I can get great run blockers in there for power formations and pass blockers in on shotgun formations, mobile QBs in on certain formations, better run blockers in at WR when running the option, etc. It's great timing (coincidental or otherwise) that we have formation subs back the same year recruiting gets an overhaul as well as the ability to recruit online.

CDJ, that is a good point about run blockers for such situations. Never thought about that, but it will be cool to go through the boards on the net and see what is available to find some hidden gems.

Jayrah
06-25-2010, 02:32 AM
good point chris. With the ratings making strides this year as well, it will be a chess match for non blue chippers this year as well, to fit them into your system and not lose a position with them on the field. In the past it felt like you would give up that position if a stud wasn't there, and you'd have to compromise. Especially in injury situations. But now we will be able to plug in more players to create a varied multitude of talents and skills at a single position on any given play. That's cool

spiker
06-25-2010, 08:59 AM
I was playing NCAA 09 last night and it sorely needed formation subs. To say this "addition" is long overdue for NG would be putting it mildly.

Kwizzy
06-25-2010, 10:02 AM
Formation subs is a HUGE addition for me for a couple reasons. First, Nebraska tends to rotate several different people @ the same position depending on the situation on both offense and defense. Also, I like to be able to chose who plays on my special teams.

I don't know if this is still true but, in the past a player's "playing time" has been calculated by the number of starts. I would hope that soon (or hopefully already) EA can change this to be calulated by number of snaps played. This would make formation subs even more crucial because then getting your younger player in a couple of formations could help in his retention and development in your dynasty.

gschwendt
06-25-2010, 10:24 AM
I don't know if this is still true but, in the past a player's "playing time" has been calculated by the number of starts. I would hope that soon (or hopefully already) EA can change this to be calulated by number of snaps played. This would make formation subs even more crucial because then getting your younger player in a couple of formations could help in his retention and development in your dynasty.
I believe in the past year or two, they've started calculating snaps played. Now, I don't know if that's how they determine the Playing Time promise or not but I know that talking to one of the devs, they mentioned that they do track snaps played.

morsdraconis
06-25-2010, 10:29 AM
I believe in the past year or two, they've started calculating snaps played. Now, I don't know if that's how they determine the Playing Time promise or not but I know that talking to one of the devs, they mentioned that they do track snaps played.

I hope so. Definitely something to test.

Kwizzy
06-25-2010, 11:31 AM
I hope so. Definitely something to test.

Or ask them... Mods, can one of you use your EA contacts to ask this question in the near future? The playing time promise is a concern, but so are things like development/progression (which should be enhanced by getting more snaps & playing on special teams) & transfers (ie- if a guy is getting plenty of PT just not starting will he transfer?). Thanks!

Keontez
06-27-2010, 04:51 AM
What happens is in ANY given formation you can put whomever you want at any position and go from there, yes they will stay there if you do it from the roster menu and not in game menu when you hit pause.


So lets say in the Weak I formation you like your power back instead of your speedster running that formation, then you will go into formation subs and put him back there instead of your speedster.

Another good thing about it is on kickofff return you dont want your MVP running around making tackles then you simply sub his ass out and put in a scrub.

Hmmm, Im no longer as happy as I once was about this feature. I'd like it better if they included it to where I could create packages and allow me to utilize the regular packages as well. :(

morsdraconis
06-27-2010, 09:16 AM
Hmmm, Im no longer as happy as I once was about this feature. I'd like it better if they included it to where I could create packages and allow me to utilize the regular packages as well. :(

You mean you want to be able to use the formation subs as well as the packages on the play call screen?

You can still do that. Just, on the normal package, it'll have whatever formation subs you made for that formation. You can still sub in your backup QB or whatever as well.

Kwizzy
06-27-2010, 09:19 AM
I think he's talking about being able to create your own packages. I know Haumiler in the past that "custom packages" are something they'd like to add.

Keontez
06-27-2010, 10:41 AM
yeah Custom Packages would be awesome. Think adding a 3-5-3 package that would replace the OLB/SS with true LBs on run downs. Adding a speed package to other formations like the 4-4 or 5-2. I never used them on last gen and I guess I let my imagination get the best of me.

JeffHCross
06-27-2010, 11:44 AM
I believe in the past year or two, they've started calculating snaps played. Now, I don't know if that's how they determine the Playing Time promise or not but I know that talking to one of the devs, they mentioned that they do track snaps played.They said this in one of the chats over the winter. But, at least for linemen in NCAA '10, it's not true at all. You can have backup linemen playing during a dynasty season, but unless they actually get some stats (i.e. Pancakes, Sacks Allowed, or Tackles on special teams), they'll redshirt at the end of the year.

psusnoop
06-29-2010, 12:46 PM
They said this in one of the chats over the winter. But, at least for linemen in NCAA '10, it's not true at all. You can have backup linemen playing during a dynasty season, but unless they actually get some stats (i.e. Pancakes, Sacks Allowed, or Tackles on special teams), they'll redshirt at the end of the year.

That is correct, unless the player (offensive lineman) creates some stats like you stated they'll redshirt. Also if you promise no redshirt the first year for these guys, you need to make sure they get those stats too because I've had atleast 2 guys transfer on me because of no stats that first year.

Gschwendt, I wish we knew for 100% that snaps played were tracked. I think with formation subs, something like this could be pivotal in deciding just how many snaps to give your younger guys throughout games verse the computer and during the season. That would be fun for developmental reasons, which is always fun to track.

Jcoop9
06-29-2010, 02:48 PM
Glad to see formation subs back too.

For anybody wanting to use a two back/two QB system this is going to be a great feature.

Alabama comes to mind w/two great RBs that need carries.

Potatoes002
07-01-2010, 04:09 PM
I like that I'll finally be able to select who will be on special teams. no more WRs who can't tackle on kickoff.

I will probably make my special teams unit Freshman and Sophomore defensive backs to get them some snaps and experience.

ebin
07-02-2010, 12:00 AM
I will probably make my special teams unit Freshman and Sophomore defensive backs to get them some snaps and experience.

I'm planning to do the same. That, and the quicker underclassmen linebackers.

souljahbill
07-12-2010, 07:10 PM
I played around with it today. It's gonna take me awhile to understand it's usefulness.

gschwendt
07-12-2010, 07:32 PM
cdj & I noticed something today. If there is a formation inside a formation, Formation Subs considers them two separate formations. For example, in the Nebraska playbook, they have Ace - Big, however inside that formation are 3-4 plays of Ace - Big Close. If you go into formation subs and change the HB for Ace - Big, it doesn't effect Ace - Big Close... you have to make a separate change for that. Another example would be the Emory & Henry formation in the South Carolina Ace - Big formation. There are only 3-4 plays of it hidden in the Ace - Big formation.

souljahbill
07-12-2010, 07:43 PM
cdj & I noticed something today. If there is a formation inside a formation, Formation Subs considers them two separate formations. For example, in the Nebraska playbook, they have Ace - Big, however inside that formation are 3-4 plays of Ace - Big Close. If you go into formation subs and change the HB for Ace - Big, it doesn't effect Ace - Big Close... you have to make a separate change for that. Another example would be the Emory & Henry formation in the South Carolina Ace - Big formation. There are only 3-4 plays of it hidden in the Ace - Big formation.

I noticed I had 2 kickoffs and was totally confused.

One was kickoff and another was Kickoff-NCAA.

jaymo76
07-12-2010, 09:43 PM
I noticed I had 2 kickoffs and was totally confused.

One was kickoff and another was Kickoff-NCAA.

Yeah, what is the kickoff-NCAA? I was confused by that with the demo???

ram29jackson
07-12-2010, 11:46 PM
can you set up formation subs for an existing team roster long before you go online to play a play a play now game ? Does it save etc ?

gschwendt
07-13-2010, 07:53 AM
can you set up formation subs for an existing team roster long before you go online to play a play a play now game ? Does it save etc ?
No, it doesn't save Formation Subs for use online to my knowledge. The only place it saves them is in dynasty or online dynasty.

baseballplyrmvp
07-14-2010, 12:07 PM
it'd be nice to be able to set your subs for the packages.....and to be able to set your subs for when you sub in your second stringers

AustinWolv
07-23-2010, 01:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tXsPpb8dps

No new news, but worth posting because I love, love that formation subs made it back in.

Rudy
07-24-2010, 10:11 PM
I love using these two. I have goalline backs, different DL combinations, etc.

jaymo76
07-24-2010, 10:54 PM
Most important feature in a football game. I have been yelling at EA for years to fix this omission on next gen. I'm very grateful to see them back. Now we just need custom playbooks...

Keontez
07-25-2010, 06:15 PM
I would rather have custom packages, Formation Subs was a huge fail to me without being able to use custom packages. jmho

JeffHCross
07-25-2010, 07:17 PM
I agree tez. Formation Subs is very nice, but the ability to customize Packages (or create custom packages, I don't really care between the two) would be huge. If you look at it one way, Formation Subs is just the ability to customize the "Normal" package. That's fine, until you need something for just one play ...

steelerfan
07-25-2010, 08:02 PM
I wish you could "reset" one formation in addition to every formation at once. Also, I wish Mass Subs would override Form Subs.

jaymo76
07-26-2010, 12:07 AM
I wish you could "reset" one formation in addition to every formation at once. Also, I wish Mass Subs would override Form Subs.

I totally agree but I suspect the "coding" for this would be very difficult. Oh well.