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View Full Version : E3 2011: Unedited NCAA Football 12 Gameplay Footage



Paakaa10
06-08-2011, 11:15 AM
Iron Bowl: ALABAMA CRIMSON TIDE VERSUS AUBURN TIGERS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW4T3J-7nY8

In this E3 video AJ takes on NCAA Football 12 Producer Ben Haumiller in 1 quarter of unedited HD gameplay.

Big Ten Showdown: OHIO STATE BUCKEYES VERSUS NEBRASKA HUSKERS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTgRQ6bbEBQ

In this E3 video AJ takes on NCAA Football 12 Producer Ben Haumiller in 1 quarter of unedited HD gameplay.

SOUTH CAROLINA GAMECOCK offense against CLEMSON TIGERS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpK3buKNI1o

In this E3 video NCAA Football 12 developer Ben Haumiller showcases some of the Gamecock offense and their power running game.

Paakaa10
06-08-2011, 11:38 AM
So yeah, there's some NCAA Football 12 footage from E3 for you guys.

illwill10
06-08-2011, 11:47 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW4T3J-7nY8

Great vid.

NaptownMVP
06-08-2011, 12:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW4T3J-7nY8&feature=player_embedded#at=231

Paakaa10
06-08-2011, 12:20 PM
Two specific moments I really like in that gameplay video:


At 2:06 or so when the Alabama running back gets cleaned up on the consecutive hit tackle by the Auburn defender. These hits are so brutal in the game sometimes, and you definitely get a smile on your face when you're playing on defense and get the chance to clean someone up like that.
At 2:52 on the 3rd and 8 play for Alabama's offense; watch the coverage of the :360x: receiver. The defense is playing zone so the defender passes him off with the hand sign before bumping him just past the line of scrimmage. This leaves the defensive back to pick up the receiver but AJ isn't able to make the player switch quick enough to gain good position on the play. The replay does a pretty good job of showing this interaction as well.

The only bummer for me here is that it's hard to display how some of the AI traits have been improved when you have a game between two users. Ah well.

EDIT: Please note that my time references are playtime in the video and not time on the game clock.

Paakaa10
06-08-2011, 12:23 PM
Delete.

morsdraconis
06-08-2011, 12:23 PM
LOVE seeing blocks on the outside actually work and loved seeing on the end around him get close to a defender occupied by a block and that defender not warp off of the block and tackle him.

Jaredlib
06-08-2011, 12:27 PM
That video shows some great plays. I like how the zone D looked on the scoring play...it looked realistic to me. the safety jsut got beat fair and square, thats how it should be.


Gotta admit guys....the d-line pass rush from the front 4 looks non-existant. Big time stonewalling going on....

NaptownMVP
06-08-2011, 12:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW4T3J-7nY8&feature=player_embedded#at=231

In this E3 video, EA SPORTS Live Team member AJ takes on NCAA Football 12 Producer Ben Haumiller in one quarter of unedited HD gameplay of Auburn vs. Alabama. After watching the video, share your thoughts with the community.

***

You can view the page at http://www.thegamingtailgate.com/forums/content.php?453-E3-2011-4-Minutes-of-NCAA-Football-12-Gameplay-Footage

morsdraconis
06-08-2011, 12:37 PM
Yeah, the pass rush wasn't much of anything without blitz, but, that's just how it is. They've already said, there's no way they're ever going to make the pass rush truly realistic because most people wouldn't be able to handle 3-4 seconds in the pocket to make plays (that and the way receivers run routes so slowly, you'd never be able to do anything besides slants before getting sacked).

Paakaa10
06-08-2011, 12:38 PM
Delete.

umhester04
06-08-2011, 12:47 PM
Thankfully, sliders can fix the Defensive Line problem

I OU a Beatn
06-08-2011, 12:51 PM
Not online they can't.

Gotmadskillzson
06-08-2011, 12:52 PM
Ben is one blitz happy guy.........

umhester04
06-08-2011, 12:54 PM
Also the commentary really should be a focal point for next years game, way too many dead spots.

NaptownMVP
06-08-2011, 12:54 PM
Sorry. I didn't see the thread in this forum. Some of the other videos had been posted in the other forum, so I just searched through there.

Paakaa10
06-08-2011, 12:57 PM
Good thing for this crowd here is that I didn't see any of those scary bull rushes or diving catches in that video :D. Just kidding, guys.

illwill10
06-08-2011, 01:06 PM
"


pastapadreBryan Wiedey





got a full game of NCAA 12 in. More subtle in terms of improvements but plays a bit cleaner than Madden.

12 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply"

th3 last tiger
06-08-2011, 01:25 PM
As a bit of a playbook nut, I notice that a few plays listed as offset. Any guesses as to what that is? My gut feeling is that they added an offset halfback looks for inside zone plays out of the shotgun. Additionally note the new formation @ 5:20 in the video where it is an H-back look out of the shotgun.

Tarhead10
06-08-2011, 01:27 PM
Also the commentary really should be a focal point for next years game, way too many dead spots.

I have to agree....This game looks great, but next years focus has to be commentary... This game has already out grown the commentary, and its time for some upgrade especially in between plays when commentators should be talking about info and stats stuff...

Justin66
06-08-2011, 01:27 PM
still not much a pass rush guess that will never be fixed they also did not run a read option with auburn to see if thats fixed.

Jaredlib
06-08-2011, 01:29 PM
Is Ben just not very good at the game? Honestly

Pig Bomb
06-08-2011, 01:43 PM
Is Ben just not very good at the game? Honestly

He's not good.... it's typical though...many in the business of making these games are so busy working on various aspects that they are not able to become as good at the game as we are. This is one reason why sites like TGT are so important...EA needs feedback from hardcore pros who play the game way more than some of the staff ever could.

Jaredlib
06-08-2011, 01:48 PM
Yeah, I hear you there.

Honestly the video shows some good stuff. The tackling in my opinion looks great. I think the d-line needs to be savage and more dynamic but oh well.

Dr Death
06-08-2011, 02:13 PM
One thing I noticed, early in the video, when Ben is on defense, just after they show the :Alabama: mascot, the play-call screen flips to Ask Coach quickly, and in the background of the play-call screen you see :Florida_State:, it then happens again as Ben is trying to change defensive coverages... so my question is this... since we all know Ben is an :Florida_State: fan, when you pick your "favorite" team at the onset, will that always be what shows up in the play-call screen or is it always :Florida_State:?

As far as the commentary, they absolutely need a total overhaul next year. I did notice that he said how many plays and yards the TD drive was, which I believe is new, but the entire commentary has just gotten old. We've heard these same lines now for how many years?

Still want to see more game play, especially HUM vs CPU, and I have to believe they were playing on default settings, as the game looked ridiculously fast to me. I would assume we will have the option, like last year, to adjust game speed.

Jaredlib
06-08-2011, 02:15 PM
Has anyone else pointed out on here that the Alabama QB throws a perfect pass while on the run and a guy hanging off of him

gschwendt
06-08-2011, 02:27 PM
One thing I noticed, early in the video, when Ben is on defense, just after they show the :Alabama: mascot, the play-call screen flips to Ask Coach quickly, and in the background of the play-call screen you see :Florida_State:, it then happens again as Ben is trying to change defensive coverages... so my question is this... since we all know Ben is an :Florida_State: fan, when you pick your "favorite" team at the onset, will that always be what shows up in the play-call screen or is it always :Florida_State:?
It's always Florida State... that's the same image as it is on NCAA11. Just like as he goes to By Formation, it shows an Ohio State player.

xMrHitStickx904
06-08-2011, 02:30 PM
Game looks pretty good. Commentary is definitely old though, probably either play it with just the crowd on, or just have by Beats on. It seems like a polished '11, which is good news, and the consecutive hit tackles adds more to the game as well.

lilheavy
06-08-2011, 02:31 PM
As a bit of a playbook nut, I notice that a few plays listed as offset. Any guesses as to what that is? My gut feeling is that they added an offset halfback looks for inside zone plays out of the shotgun. Additionally note the new formation @ 5:20 in the video where it is an H-back look out of the shotgun.

It could be for the shotgun formation, but I noticed a few weeks back when we started seeing pb videos that there was a under center singleback formation that had the RB offset to the left. The CD guys may be able to shed more light on it.

Dr Death
06-08-2011, 02:41 PM
It's always Florida State... that's the same image as it is on NCAA11. Just like as he goes to By Formation, it shows an Ohio State player.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I OU a Beatn
06-08-2011, 02:42 PM
The shotgun run blocking looks a lot better, so I'm relieved about that. The tackling animations look a lot better as well, and the game looks like it's very fluid. All excellent things. However, I can tell you right now that my number one complaint is still very much an issue. While I can see that zone defense has been improved, it's not nearly good enough. I'm still seeing drags that are wide open. I'm still seeing huge gaps over the middle that can easily be exploited with a slant or post. The pass rush looks as bad as it did last year with virtually zero pressure from the front 4. Ugh.

Anyone know how old this build is and if there's been any changes or tweaks to zone coverage and the pass rush?

Flav
06-08-2011, 02:48 PM
Everything looks really good, just commentary is really really bland. :/

Paakaa10
06-08-2011, 02:52 PM
Added this to the first post as well:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTgRQ6bbEBQ

NCAA Football 12 from E3: 4 Min RAW Gameplay (Night game) Ohio State @ Nebraska

I OU a Beatn
06-08-2011, 03:03 PM
Man defense looks really good. Maybe I'll just sit in cover 0 all game.

skipwondah33
06-08-2011, 03:04 PM
He's not good.... it's typical though...many in the business of making these games are so busy working on various aspects that they are not able to become as good at the game as we are. This is one reason why sites like TGT are so important...EA needs feedback from hardcore pros who play the game way more than some of the staff ever could.

They actually probably the game more but not the way we would for enjoyment but for work of course. It's probably almost sickening for them to play by the time the game releases for us

xMrHitStickx904
06-08-2011, 03:05 PM
2 sacks there in the OSU/Nebraska game, I like that. As far as T. Pryor goes, hopefully they can get him outta the game completely.

I OU a Beatn
06-08-2011, 03:07 PM
I hope they do, too. That's one less headache to worry about online. :D

Kwizzy
06-08-2011, 03:08 PM
2 sacks there in the OSU/Nebraska game, I like that. As far as T. Pryor goes, hopefully they can get him outta the game completely.

I will tell you how that will turn out right now: "We don't have real players in our game."

Paakaa10
06-08-2011, 03:08 PM
2 sacks there in the OSU/Nebraska game, I like that. As far as T. Pryor goes, hopefully they can get him outta the game completely.

That wasn't Pryor in the video; that's QB #2, man! His parents were just unique in terms of how they name their kids, two letters and then a number.

Big difference!

CLW
06-08-2011, 03:08 PM
The shotgun run blocking looks a lot better, so I'm relieved about that. The tackling animations look a lot better as well, and the game looks like it's very fluid. All excellent things. However, I can tell you right now that my number one complaint is still very much an issue. While I can see that zone defense has been improved, it's not nearly good enough. I'm still seeing drags that are wide open. I'm still seeing huge gaps over the middle that can easily be exploited with a slant or post. The pass rush looks as bad as it did last year with virtually zero pressure from the front 4. Ugh.

Anyone know how old this build is and if there's been any changes or tweaks to zone coverage and the pass rush?


Man defense looks really good. Maybe I'll just sit in cover 0 all game.

Yep I am not seeing enough Zone improvement to really make any "significant" difference. The two guys on the sticks really sucked as guys were running open and they didn't make the appropriate read/throw.

It's looking like this is basically NCAA 11.5 which is fine but I am somewhat disappointed in the gameplay as I was really hoping defense would be respectable this year. It clearly will not be judging from that video.

SmoothPancakes
06-08-2011, 03:09 PM
They actually probably the game more but not the way we would for enjoyment but for work of course. It's probably almost sickening for them to play by the time the game releases for us

Agreed. After working on NCAA Football year round, it would be the LAST game I would ever sit down and just casually play. I would play any other game in the history of video games but NCAA if I was on the production team and we had just reached the end of a cycle and hadn't yet started up on the next year's cycle.

I OU a Beatn
06-08-2011, 03:10 PM
Yeah, there was wide open receivers virtually every pass play. I did see some nice man defense, though, so all hope is not lost for me yet. I didn't see them run any zone blitzes, either, so if that's effective...that may be enough to catch people off guard. It's nearly impossible to tell without getting my hands on it, but I wasn't impressed with what I saw from zone defense. It only looked marginally improved.

SmoothPancakes
06-08-2011, 03:12 PM
That wasn't Pryor in the video; that's QB #2, man! His parents were just unique in terms of how they name their kids, two letters and then a number.

Big difference!

It's definitely an original name, I'll definitely give his parents that much. But QB? A little too specific for me. What if the kid ends up sucking too much for QB and can only make it as a RB or WR? Or what if he ends up getting fat and can only be DL or OL? It'd look pretty stupid having a kid named QB #2 playing at offensive guard. BIG risk his parents took there.

;)

CLW
06-08-2011, 03:12 PM
Yeah, there was wide open receivers virtually every pass play. I did see some nice man defense, though, so all hope is not lost for me yet. I didn't see them run any zone blitzes, either, so if that's effective...that may be enough to catch people off guard. It's nearly impossible to tell without getting my hands on it, but I wasn't impressed with what I saw from zone defense. It only looked marginally improved.

100% agreed. It looks like all this talk of zone defense improvements being cosmetic at best only. Unless that video was on varsity or sliders are greatly improved I cannot honestly see calling any more zone coverage than I did in 11 which was < 5%

xMrHitStickx904
06-08-2011, 03:15 PM
I can't tell just how good zones are for real because I'm not the one playing it and making the adjustments, I normally make about 3-4 adjustments before the ball is snapped, they are just running plays without it.

Jaredlib
06-08-2011, 03:18 PM
Well, I admit, the second video is a LOT better than the first. Good to see the pressure but as you guys have already stated, zone defense does not look to be a viable option right now. It may be a tad bit better than in 11 but man seems like the safest bet...

I OU a Beatn
06-08-2011, 03:19 PM
I can't tell just how good zones are for real because I'm not the one playing it and making the adjustments, I normally make about 3-4 adjustments before the ball is snapped, they are just running plays without it.

It doesn't matter, none of the players are dropping to the right spot on the field. Unless you're able to make adjustments to about 6 of the players and manually control them all at once, it's not going to make a difference. It looks to me like the LBs just aren't dropping far enough back. I also thought I read that when a receiver enters a defender's zone, the defender will stick with them until they leave their area, and I didn't see that. There was a ton of underneath routes where the receiver ran where he want and the LB just looked at him and stayed in his zone.

I don't even think difficulty would affect this. Like I said, the players just aren't dropping where they are supposed to be dropping and it seems like they still pay no attention to where the receivers are. You're right in the fact that it might be better once I get my hands on it(no doubt those two playing it are just flat out bad), but I still don't think I can correct something that involves players just blatantly going to the wrong spot on the field.

xMrHitStickx904
06-08-2011, 03:26 PM
It doesn't matter, none of the players are dropping to the right spot on the field. Unless you're able to make adjustments to about 6 of the players and manually control them all at once, it's not going to make a difference. It looks to me like the LBs just aren't dropping far enough back. I also thought I read that when a receiver enters a defender's zone, the defender will stick with them until they leave their area, and I didn't see that. There was a ton of underneath routes where the receiver ran where he want and the LB just looked at him and stayed in his zone.

I don't even think difficulty would affect this. Like I said, the players just aren't dropping where they are supposed to be dropping and it seems like they still pay no attention to where the receivers are. You're right in the fact that it might be better once I get my hands on it(no doubt those two playing it are just flat out bad), but I still don't think I can correct something that involves players just blatantly going to the wrong spot on the field.

I'm noticing the problems with drops too. I think because Drags last year were SUCH a headache that the LB's are sticking closer to the underneath routes than before. In '11, you could run a drag every play and get 10 yards vs any coverage. I think that will stop this year. However, it seems like a mixed bag. In the earlier gameplay videos we saw in may, the LB drops seemed fine. I don't know if it's because of certain route combinations that LB's vary with their drops, but it's not consistent.

xRomo9
06-08-2011, 03:36 PM
Looking at video and seeing these guys play they where on Varsity I would bet JB's Check on it. :) But really as much as I played this game 80 hours believe me zones are there!!!

I OU a Beatn
06-08-2011, 03:40 PM
It may be there against the CPU, but against a capable human player, I can almost bet it's not even remotely close to being there.

Gotmadskillzson
06-08-2011, 03:42 PM
Second video is much better.

WolverineJay
06-08-2011, 04:00 PM
Has anyone else pointed out on here that the Alabama QB throws a perfect pass while on the run and a guy hanging off of him

Yes that is a huge disappointment, the old robo qb needs to just go away already.

ram29jackson
06-08-2011, 04:09 PM
is it difficult for them to make a def. play where the corners are in man but everyone else is in zone ....?

one replay angle looked new overhead and then another was the same as last year...the players still move the same in alot of ways

Tarhead10
06-08-2011, 04:19 PM
One thing I saw I did like was the momentum on kickoffs.. When the runner is gaining that much speed he should bring lots of momentum into the defender and not just stop on a dime... looked good...

beartide06
06-08-2011, 06:40 PM
Demo comes out Tuesday, June 28th. Says it on their facebook page. Here is the link: http://www.facebook.com/easportsncaafootball

Not sure why it is 2 weeks later than last years, but now the wait has gotten even worse because I was not expecting it to release that late.

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-08-2011, 06:55 PM
im loving the fluid look of the game... very very exciting... some zone issues but like stated above (Romo)... i SERIOUSLY doubt that is AA or Heisman... especially since the CE guys have said its a huge improvement...

"E"

Coachdenz
06-08-2011, 08:16 PM
game looks good, one thing I can't stand is the dreads they are way over done for Bama.....way over done. everything else looks look and I'm ready to play it.

rhombic21
06-08-2011, 08:30 PM
I thought the second video looked much better. It was nice to see the DT get a couple sacks, since I don't think I've ever really seen that on NCAA '11.

There are still some issues with zones, but a lot of the stuff I saw was hard to judge because they were either calling zone blitzes that weren't very well disguised, or the user was taking a guy and moving him out of position.

The main issue I have is with QB accuracy. That Alabama video where the QB gets off a perfect pass into the endzone (the play is broken up, but only because the defender is in good position), with multiple defenders closing in on him, throwing off his back foot. And in the Ohio State game, you never really see either QB throwing a pass that doesn't essentially go right on target. And neither of those QBs should have very high accuracy ratings. The only variable is whether there's a defender there to break it up, but basically every pass hits somebody in the hands. Again, you can fix zone all you want (and it looks like they've made some progress, but it's still not where it needs to be), but it's still not going to be right unless you fix QB accuracy. Right now there's no real reason to place a high premium on it either when deciding who to play, which is a shame. Basically any QB with decent accuracy ratings plays about the same.

Also, watching that video made me realize how much I wish they'd let us play night games for online ranked play. Seems to add a lot to the atmosphere. I remember back on NCAA '09 when you had the option to use the real-time weather, and wish they'd do something like that again.

JeffHCross
06-08-2011, 08:33 PM
The main issue I have is with QB accuracy. That Alabama video where the QB gets off a perfect pass into the endzone (the play is broken up, but only because the defender is in good position), with multiple defenders closing in on him, throwing off his back foot.Absolutely agreed. In '11, I hate finally getting pressure on a quarterback, only to see him get off a perfect pass.


Also, watching that video made me realize how much I wish they'd let us play night games for online ranked play.I have no idea one way or the other, but that certainly would be nice. I found myself gravitating toward night games during the events -- they looked so good.

I OU a Beatn
06-08-2011, 08:39 PM
+1 on the online ranked night games. I can't remember what years had it, but playing a night game against a highly ranked player really got my blood boiling. It definitely adds a lot to the atmosphere.

jaymo76
06-08-2011, 10:19 PM
Not a lot of stat overlays. From the community event it sounded like they were frequent... only saw two and they were both common in 11.:(

Jayrah
06-08-2011, 11:13 PM
Not a lot of stat overlays. From the community event it sounded like they were frequent... only saw two and they were both common in 11.:(

Seems like first qtr, first drives of the game... there's not many stats in play now to overlay. Would have to see later qtrs to judge this.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

Jayrah
06-08-2011, 11:40 PM
I thought the second video looked much better. It was nice to see the DT get a couple sacks, since I don't think I've ever really seen that on NCAA '11.

There are still some issues with zones, but a lot of the stuff I saw was hard to judge because they were either calling zone blitzes that weren't very well disguised, or the user was taking a guy and moving him out of position.

The main issue I have is with QB accuracy. That Alabama video where the QB gets off a perfect pass into the endzone (the play is broken up, but only because the defender is in good position), with multiple defenders closing in on him, throwing off his back foot. And in the Ohio State game, you never really see either QB throwing a pass that doesn't essentially go right on target. And neither of those QBs should have very high accuracy ratings. The only variable is whether there's a defender there to break it up, but basically every pass hits somebody in the hands. Again, you can fix zone all you want (and it looks like they've made some progress, but it's still not where it needs to be), but it's still not going to be right unless you fix QB accuracy. Right now there's no real reason to place a high premium on it either when deciding who to play, which is a shame. Basically any QB with decent accuracy ratings plays about the same.

Also, watching that video made me realize how much I wish they'd let us play night games for online ranked play. Seems to add a lot to the atmosphere. I remember back on NCAA '09 when you had the option to use the real-time weather, and wish they'd do something like that again.

Very good post. I can completely agree with this. And again, online ranked or OD user/user or whatever where sliders are useless will have the most issue with these. I don't understand why user/user OD games can't use sliders? I can see ranked games cause everyone would have their own slider set it's impossible, but OD there is one ruler of sliders and they should absolutely be usable. However aside from that the biggest issue for me has always been against the cpu, and my hope is that slight slider tweaks will fix these issues against the cpu, things like the pass rush and qb acc and cpu rush game.

steelerfan
06-09-2011, 03:59 AM
Unless things have been tuned to help offenses in this build (for Casual Guy at E3), I'm positive this is Varsity. Passing was never this easy in the builds I played (I completed 50.7%, IIRC, last month in about 6 games). There was, apparently, a HUGE difference between Varsity and AA. I never played on Varsity, but there were several instances at the last CD where someone would point out an apparent flaw and a dev would ask "are you playing on Varsity?" and the user checked and, sure enough, they were on Varsity. It became a bit of a joke, really.

I wouldn't read too much into these videos. E3 builds are for the masses and things are tuned specifically for it. If you read the NHL 12 hands-on at OS, they clearly state that the E3 build was tuned to show certain aspects of physics (goalie collisions, breaking glass etc) and those things were happening far too often.

I guess my point is, I'd be shocked if this was AA. I'm sure they don't want people to play this build, or watch videos of it, and think "passing is too tough - that guy made the game and he can't do it. How will I do? That's no fun." It's marketing, I'm as certain of it as I can be.

Rudy
06-09-2011, 05:08 AM
I'm not too worried about QB accuracy as an offline gamer because it's always been too high on default and I'll just use the sliders to fix as necessary.

I'm positive zone defenses are better and that statement has nothing to do with watching the videos. The guys here and around the web said it was a lot tougher to the point people like myself were worried about it being over powered. Defenders will bounce back and forth between guys coming in their zone. Lastly, zone defences were SO bad last year that I can't help but think they will be useable this year.

I've read about possible camera angle changes which always make me nervous but it looks pretty similar. Any comments from the community guys?

My biggest complaint is that I still don't see nearly enough momentum for the players. The videos still look too easy to jerk back and forth like NCAA 11. I guess I'll have to wait and see as people are saying it's better but at the same time saying the videos don't do it justice. I don't buy that though. Even though I like MLB 2K11, when I watch a video of it I can clearly tell it's a video game and it doesn't look quite right. When I watch a video of the Show 11 it looks almost real. The player movement and animations look incredibly life like. That's not how I feel when I see a video of NCAA 11 or 12. You'd have to be blind not to know it's a video game. The players just don't move right imo.

Let me add something positive, I didn't see the super leaping LB on some plays. There was a slant over the middle where you just know NCAA 11 would have used the super swat. It was always frustrating to not be able to put the ball in spots you know you should be able to. With better zone defences and super swat gone I'm sure NCAA 12 will be a nice improvement.

rhombic21
06-09-2011, 08:14 AM
I wouldn't read too much into these videos. E3 builds are for the masses and things are tuned specifically for it. If you read the NHL 12 hands-on at OS, they clearly state that the E3 build was tuned to show certain aspects of physics (goalie collisions, breaking glass etc) and those things were happening far too often.


Since NCAA '12 wasn't even shown on the floor, and since it comes out in about a month, I don't see why they would tune it specifically for the masses just for this event.

Kwizzy
06-09-2011, 08:19 AM
I thought the second video looked much better. It was nice to see the DT get a couple sacks, since I don't think I've ever really seen that on NCAA '11.

There are still some issues with zones, but a lot of the stuff I saw was hard to judge because they were either calling zone blitzes that weren't very well disguised, or the user was taking a guy and moving him out of position.

The main issue I have is with QB accuracy. That Alabama video where the QB gets off a perfect pass into the endzone (the play is broken up, but only because the defender is in good position), with multiple defenders closing in on him, throwing off his back foot. And in the Ohio State game, you never really see either QB throwing a pass that doesn't essentially go right on target. And neither of those QBs should have very high accuracy ratings. The only variable is whether there's a defender there to break it up, but basically every pass hits somebody in the hands. Again, you can fix zone all you want (and it looks like they've made some progress, but it's still not where it needs to be), but it's still not going to be right unless you fix QB accuracy. Right now there's no real reason to place a high premium on it either when deciding who to play, which is a shame. Basically any QB with decent accuracy ratings plays about the same.

Also, watching that video made me realize how much I wish they'd let us play night games for online ranked play. Seems to add a lot to the atmosphere. I remember back on NCAA '09 when you had the option to use the real-time weather, and wish they'd do something like that again.

I will be taking a look at this as soon as I get my hands on the game again. In April, the last time I played, I remember my qb making quite a few bad throws & especially on the run. I'm not denying what you saw in the videos, I saw it too, but I had a different experience with the game.

Pig Bomb
06-09-2011, 08:38 AM
I will be taking a look at this as soon as I get my hands on the game again. In April, the last time I played, I remember my qb making quite a few bad throws & especially on the run. I'm not denying what you saw in the videos, I saw it too, but I had a different experience with the game.

I'm guessing they played on the lowest difficulty.... they don't want to show a video of a game where every time they throw it's incomplete...thats not exciting...thats not going to make younger gamers buy the game...they want big plays, highlight plays, and scoring..IMO

JBHuskers
06-09-2011, 08:48 AM
I'm guessing they played on the lowest difficulty.... they don't want to show a video of a game where every time they throw it's incomplete...thats not exciting...thats not going to make younger gamers buy the game...they want big plays, highlight plays, and scoring..IMO

Exactly. This was at least Varsity.

AustinWolv
06-09-2011, 09:21 AM
The shotgun run blocking looks a lot better, so I'm relieved about that.
I noticed this on a couple plays....they even had double-teams where one of the OL would then come off the double and go find a 2nd-level defender, which is very important aspect that was missing in the past.......

The secondary hit at the 2:06 video time mark was pretty sweet, as was pointed out earlier.

AustinWolv
06-09-2011, 09:41 AM
At 4:37 in the B10 game, the man coverage shows the CB reacting, not running the route for the receiver so hopefully that continues to hold true.

Pig Bomb
06-09-2011, 09:46 AM
At 4:37 in the B10 game, the man coverage shows the CB reacting, not running the route for the receiver so hopefully that continues to hold true.

ya EA guys have commented that this was fixed.... thank god!

th3 last tiger
06-09-2011, 10:05 AM
A Questions for any of the guys who have had hands on time with the game. Have they sped up the option animations because that was a big complaint of mine, it always felt like I wasn't able to cut like i wanted to.

steelerfan
06-09-2011, 10:10 AM
Since NCAA '12 wasn't even shown on the floor, and since it comes out in about a month, I don't see why they would tune it specifically for the masses just for this event.

I see your point, but the videos are being seen by the masses.

I OU a Beatn
06-09-2011, 10:22 AM
Unless things have been tuned to help offenses in this build (for Casual Guy at E3), I'm positive this is Varsity. Passing was never this easy in the builds I played (I completed 50.7%, IIRC, last month in about 6 games). There was, apparently, a HUGE difference between Varsity and AA. I never played on Varsity, but there were several instances at the last CD where someone would point out an apparent flaw and a dev would ask "are you playing on Varsity?" and the user checked and, sure enough, they were on Varsity. It became a bit of a joke, really.

I wouldn't read too much into these videos. E3 builds are for the masses and things are tuned specifically for it. If you read the NHL 12 hands-on at OS, they clearly state that the E3 build was tuned to show certain aspects of physics (goalie collisions, breaking glass etc) and those things were happening far too often.

I guess my point is, I'd be shocked if this was AA. I'm sure they don't want people to play this build, or watch videos of it, and think "passing is too tough - that guy made the game and he can't do it. How will I do? That's no fun." It's marketing, I'm as certain of it as I can be.

That's extremely stupid if that's the reason. Why would difficulty affect the drop of the defenders to the wrong spot and depth on the field? I would assume that difficulty would only affect the awareness of the defender and the likelihood of a pass getting knocked down or picked off. If the difficulty causes the defenders to drop to the wrong spot on the field just to make it easier, then that may be the lamest thing I've ever heard.

steelerfan
06-09-2011, 10:30 AM
That's extremely stupid if that's the reason. Why would difficulty affect the drop of the defenders to the wrong spot and depth on the field? I would assume that difficulty would only affect the awareness of the defender and the likelihood of a pass getting knocked down or picked off. If the difficulty causes the defenders to drop to the wrong spot on the field just to make it easier, then that may be the lamest thing I've ever heard.

Um, a 10-year old who can't read coverages has to be able to play too. The only way he'll find an open target is if it's more obvious.

Paakaa10
06-09-2011, 10:32 AM
I see your point, but the videos are being seen by the masses.

To piggyback on this point, none of the hands-on impressions I've read so far from people like Christian McLeod at OS or PastaPadre have called out deficiencies in zone defense play or anything like that. Example from a Twitter conversation:


invzibl: @Bumble14_OS does NCAA CPU ai play tougher and smarter? Does it feel cheap at all?

@Bumble14_OS: @invzibl CPU AI is improved on both sides of the ball.

Aside from reaction to the videos--which I understand because these are the first lengthy glances of the game--I don't think I've seen a preview or impressions piece where people were particularly concerned about zone defense not living up to the early promotional billing.

I OU a Beatn
06-09-2011, 10:35 AM
Yeah, so lower the awareness for the defenders. Why essentially break your game just to make it easier? For the record, I don't think that difficulty level affects how the defenders drop and where they drop on the field. That seems like a set thing that would be done differently depending on the play selected, and is the cause as to why the zone defense looks so bad in the two game play videos posted.

If difficulty does have to do with it, then it's good. It's extremely lame they have it setup that way, but whatever. I personally have to believe that we're going to see similar issues with drop on All American as well, and the issues we see in the videos are still going to be there in the demo.

Paakaa10
06-09-2011, 10:37 AM
Not to mention the comments on zone defense from an E3 attendee--Hellisan at Tradition Sports (http://traditionsportsonline.com/e3-hellisan-is-on-site-for-tsos-coverage)--who has had a very critical and honest view of the game so far:


As the developers have indicated the zones have received a major overhaul. Now that I have played against them for a couple days I can say confidently that you have to attack them much differently. The idea that you can run a slant, drag, or vert (from the slot) and that at some point he will come open really is a thing of the past. Depending upon the coverage any of those MIGHT work however they anticipate the trajectory of the opposing players much better so the less movement is on the route, the more likely it is that it will be covered.

I was able to occasionally run a drag that went past the last defender but other times they kept going with him. Additionally the cpu disguises its coverages much better than before. A lot of times I really didn’t know what the coverage was even if I had trips to one side. If the corner is in zone and his man goes in motion he will shade inside as well, so you can’t just read off the auto motion. I think these changes are a major improvement. You will have to really flood a zone and use the routes that are designed to beat zones such as the drag/stop route (which worked very well because the defender is aligning himself to stay in FRONT of the player’s trajectory). Basically, routes can “beat” zone coverages when you get a guy matched up one-on-one in a zone. An example I have is playing against a cover 3 where one corner was on an island with the other two shading to the left, so as my wide receiver pressed him deep he was essentially in man coverage. When my guy did a double move it fooled him and I got a beautiful touchdown throw out of it. Overall, I struggled much more on offense today on All American. In the running game I had a lot more of guys getting stopped in their tracks instead of plowing for more yards.

I OU a Beatn
06-09-2011, 10:40 AM
That's one guy's impressions versus a video which clearly shows issues with zone coverage. In the first video, there were two or three instances where a drag was being run against a zone coverage, and not once did a defender pick them up. There were also several instances where there were wide open receivers right over the middle past the LBs because the drops were all wrong and not at the correct depth. I also saw a wide open corner route against a cover 2, which yes, should be open, but not to that degree.

steelerfan
06-09-2011, 10:43 AM
Good post, Brian.

steelerfan
06-09-2011, 10:45 AM
That's one guy's impressions versus a video which clearly shows issues with zone coverage. In the first video, there were two or three instances where a drag was being run against a zone coverage, and not once did a defender pick them up. There were also several instances where there were wide open receivers right over the middle past the LBs because the drops were all wrong and not at the correct depth. I also saw a wide open corner route against a cover 2, which yes, should be open, but not to that degree.


I struggled much more on offense today on All American

That says it.

Kwizzy
06-09-2011, 10:45 AM
That's one guy's impressions versus a video which clearly shows issues with zone coverage. In the first video, there were two or three instances where a drag was being run against a zone coverage, and not once did a defender pick them up. There were also several instances where there were wide open receivers right over the middle past the LBs because the drops were all wrong and not at the correct depth. I also saw a wide open corner route against a cover 2, which yes, should be open, but not to that degree.

Ok, we get it, there are some things to be concerned with in the video. We don't know the reason why (difficulty, etc...) You have several people on here plus plenty of others at E3 saying it's much better. All I'm saying is stop acting like it's the end of the world.

Paakaa10
06-09-2011, 10:45 AM
That's one guy's impressions versus a video which clearly shows issues with zone coverage.

To be fair, pretty much every Community Event guy who frequents this forum has been saying similar things about zones being improved ever since we've been given the opportunity to start talking about the game and answering questions. The last build we played of the game would presumably not be a whole lot older than the one that's being played at E3, considering it's been less than a month since the last Community Event.

But we have no idea what build these videos are captured from, and no idea what difficulty level they're being played on.

I understand the concern, and the frustration, and everything else. I just feel like we've--not you specifically, but community in general--had a similar conversation before when people saw the video of bull rushes and diving catches and presumed that both animations would be prevalent to a game-breaking fashion in this year's game. I haven't seen either animation overplayed in video footage or remarked upon in previews and impressions yet.

I OU a Beatn
06-09-2011, 10:47 AM
So is that like a new thing this year then? I do know for a fact that difficulty level never affected the actual spot the defenders go to on the field when in zone in past NCAA games, only the awareness of the defenders. So basically they would go to the exact same spot if you selected the same play, the defender just has a better chance to making a play on the ball if it's a higher difficulty level. It's been that way since I can remember.

So did they actually set it up so difficulty affects the spot in which players drop, or what that just a guess?

Kwizzy
06-09-2011, 10:52 AM
So is that like a new thing this year then? I do know for a fact that difficulty level never affected the actual spot the defenders go to on the field when in zone in past NCAA games, only the awareness of the defenders. So basically they would go to the exact same spot if you selected the same play, the defender just has a better chance to making a play on the ball if it's a higher difficulty level. It's been that way since I can remember.

So did they actually set it up so difficulty affects the spot in which players drop, or what that just a guess?

I don't think anyone here could give you a good answer to that & not be guessing. All we can say is that in our experience with the game, the zones are very much improved.

I OU a Beatn
06-09-2011, 10:55 AM
I've heard that. My question is does the difficulty level affect where the defenders drop on the field? If it does, that would obviously explain the issue if they're playing on Varsity(which they probably are). However, if it's like all the other NCAA games I've played where difficulty level does NOT affect where the players drop on the field, then the difficulty level shouldn't matter. Like you said, EA is probably the only ones who know for sure, but I have a hard time believing they would change something so drastic in a year's time.

Whether people had trouble passing or not is irrelevant when I see holes in coverage like the ones I saw in the videos.

steelerfan
06-09-2011, 10:55 AM
So did they actually set it up so difficulty affects the spot in which players drop, or what that just a guess?

What I know is that the devs could look at any number of plays and immediately tell you if it was AA or Varsity.

psusnoop
06-09-2011, 10:58 AM
Ok, we get it, there are some things to be concerned with in the video. We don't know the reason why (difficulty, etc...) You have several people on here plus plenty of others at E3 saying it's much better. All I'm saying is stop acting like it's the end of the world.

:)):)):))

Good stuff Paakaa10, thanks for getting good information on what the feel of the game is thus far.

Kwizzy
06-09-2011, 11:04 AM
I've heard that. My question is does the difficulty level affect where the defenders drop on the field? If it does, that would obviously explain the issue if they're playing on Varsity(which they probably are). However, if it's like all the other NCAA games I've played where difficulty level does NOT affect where the players drop on the field, then the difficulty level shouldn't matter. Like you said, EA is probably the only ones who know for sure, but I have a hard time believing they would change something so drastic in a year's time.

Whether people had trouble passing or not is irrelevant when I see holes in coverage like the ones I saw in the videos.

I don't know what is or is not affected by difficulty level so I don't know the answer to your question & neither do steeler or Paakaa. But it's entirely possible that that has changed based on the impact each players awareness takes on varsity & how that is factored in to how well they play their zone, including their initial drop. They completely overhauled the zone coverage so I guess my answer is: yes it's possible that the difficulty now affects the drop more than it has in the past, we just don't know for sure. All we can go by is what we've seen. I'd wait to see confirmed AA gameplay before you get too bent out of shape.

I OU a Beatn
06-09-2011, 11:09 AM
I can assure you that I'll never get bent out of a shape over a game. I may point out issues with it, but that's definitely not getting bent out of shape. I was merely curious as to whether difficulty affected the area the defenders drop to in zone. I can never listen to feedback from community day guys as it is. It's not that you don't give great feedback, it's just feedback based on games against the CPU or other sim players. I can only watch videos and give my opinion based off of that.

A perfect example is last year. Several people said the defense was really good, which it was...IF you played by house rules. If you didn't play by those rules, you'd have no problem putting up 70 or so points in the little 8 minute demo we had last year. That's specifically why I'm saying that if zone defenders drop like they do in that video, we're going to have the EXACT same issue we had last year. So yes, in my mind, it's a major cause for concern until I see something to prove otherwise.

Kwizzy
06-09-2011, 11:12 AM
I can assure you that I'll never get bent out of a shape over a game. I may point out issues with it, but that's definitely not getting bent out of shape. I was merely curious as to whether difficulty affected the area the defenders drop to in zone. I can never listen to feedback from community day guys as it is. It's not that you don't give great feedback, it's just feedback based on games against the CPU or other sim players. I can only watch videos and give my opinion based off of that.

A perfect example is last year. Several people said the defense was really good, which it was...IF you played by house rules. If you didn't play by those rules, you'd have no problem putting up 70 or so points in the little 8 minute demo we had last year. That's specifically why I'm saying that if zone defenders drop like they do in that video, we're going to have the EXACT same issue we had last year. So yes, in my mind, it's a major cause for concern until I see something to prove otherwise.

I can understand that, I guess I was just trying to say I wouldn't worry too much until we, at the least, have confirmation what difficulty that was on.

Paakaa10
06-09-2011, 11:15 AM
It's not that you don't give great feedback, it's just feedback based on games against the CPU or other sim players. I can only watch videos and give my opinion based off of that.

Fair enough; I can't lie to you and say that my personal experience at Community Day was focused on testing to see if the game is "cheese-proof" from the stereotypical non-sim online player. My time was either spent against the CPU or playing against guys like steelerfan who are very sim-style in their play type.

Having watched videos of most "random" online games, I definitely have a lot of respect for somebody who can go into that as their primary experience with the game.

I OU a Beatn
06-09-2011, 11:31 AM
Fair enough; I can't lie to you and say that my personal experience at Community Day was focused on testing to see if the game is "cheese-proof" from the stereotypical non-sim online player. My time was either spent against the CPU or playing against guys like steelerfan who are very sim-style in their play type.

Exactly, and that's not a bad thing at all. It's probably a blessing as you guys never face the headache that I force myself to. :D

It's still great that people who haven't played the game yet can ask you guys for information about the game. I am curious as to whether or not difficulty affects how the defenders position themselves in zone defense. If it is setup that way, then the two videos we've seen so far are pretty much pointless since it was most likely played on one of the lower levels.

psusnoop
06-09-2011, 11:46 AM
I actually like the way the MLB reacted to the HB coming out of the backfield on a curl. The MLB kept his responsibility then once the WR crossed behind him he immediately came in and was ready to clean up any dump off that could have happened.

The play is at 1:38 of the second Vid.

psusnoop
06-09-2011, 11:49 AM
Exactly, and that's not a bad thing at all. It's probably a blessing as you guys never face the headache that I force myself to. :D

I try to play about 25 games online before we start our online dynasty each year. It is a complete headache and 1 reason why I can't continue to play from the lobby once the game has been out for a week or two. To many idiots that do not "play" football. I just don't have enough time to dedicate to these idiots and get way much more enjoyment out of playing Online Dynasty with friends.

th3 last tiger
06-09-2011, 03:52 PM
My question wasn't answered before so ill ask it again. To those who have had hands on time with the game, has their been an improvement in the shotgun running game? More specifically have they made a more clear distinction between downhill and more lateral running plays, and secondly have they sped up and made the option read animations smoother?

Kwizzy
06-09-2011, 04:03 PM
My question wasn't answered before so ill ask it again. To those who have had hands on time with the game, has their been an improvement in the shotgun running game? More specifically have they made a more clear distinction between downhill and more lateral running plays, and secondly have they sped up and made the option read animations smoother?

I would say that the largest benefits to the shotgun running game come from two things: A)Improved blocking assignments B)New Wrap Interaction system. Those two things mean that the OLINE executes better and that when you run past a defender who is being blocked he wont suction on to you and make a tackle he shouldn't. So yes the shotgun running game is better, especially for the user. Now I think it has been said by others & we haven't really been able to nail down a solid reason why, but the CPU shotgun run game does still feel a bit underpowered. I thought that the read options were a bit smoother but I am holding out until the final build before I'd say they are "fixed".

th3 last tiger
06-09-2011, 04:15 PM
I would say that the largest benefits to the shotgun running game come from two things: A)Improved blocking assignments B)New Wrap Interaction system. Those two things mean that the OLINE executes better and that when you run past a defender who is being blocked he wont suction on to you and make a tackle he shouldn't. So yes the shotgun running game is better, especially for the user. Now I think it has been said by others & we haven't really been able to nail down a solid reason why, but the CPU shotgun run game does still feel a bit underpowered. I thought that the read options were a bit smoother but I am holding out until the final build before I'd say they are "fixed".

Thanks hopefully they have added new plays as well.

Paakaa10
06-09-2011, 05:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpK3buKNI1o


In this E3 video NCAA Football 12 developer Ben Haumiller showcases some of the Gamecock offense and their power running game.

CLW
06-09-2011, 06:03 PM
Just saw the video and guys were WIDE OPEN and Ben just missed the reads. I am praying he is playing on Varsity or Frosh.

xMrHitStickx904
06-09-2011, 06:10 PM
It's proven that different difficulty levels affect how defenders react, it's obvious to me imo.

xMrHitStickx904
06-09-2011, 06:16 PM
Here is my thing about zones. I feel like we "see" a lot of wide open players. However, that doesn't mean, at least in this years' game that they are actually open.

CLW
06-09-2011, 06:22 PM
Here is my thing about zones. I feel like we "see" a lot of wide open players. However, that doesn't mean, at least in this years' game that they are actually open.

IF these guys only "appear" open then there is a problem with warping/super human breaks by DBs. Either way its not good.

Paakaa10
06-09-2011, 06:22 PM
Just saw the video and guys were WIDE OPEN and Ben just missed the reads. I am praying he is playing on Varsity or Frosh.

I wish there was a better quality of the video so that I could blow it up on-screen and capture from it on the handful of passing plays that Ben attempted. From my perspective, I did not see the "WIDE OPEN" receivers that you mention here. There might be a couple of guys who had a 2-3 yard cushion from their zone coverage defender, but I can assure you--from my playtime--that such a cushion does not necessarily mean that it's a guaranteed completion if you target that receiver.


Here is my thing about zones. I feel like we "see" a lot of wide open players. However, that doesn't mean, at least in this years' game that they are actually open.

When I first started playing the builds at Community Events, it was a bit of a "re-learning process." Zones in NCAA Football 11, to some degree, could be ignored when you were on offense because the defenders reacted so poorly to the play that it wasn't high-risk. Coverage that looks safe in NCAA Football 12 sometimes turns into a deflected pass or an interception.

cdj
06-09-2011, 06:23 PM
Here is my thing about zones. I feel like we "see" a lot of wide open players. However, that doesn't mean, at least in this years' game that they are actually open.

Playing on AA at the Community Events, my personal thought was along your same lines. If you don't get the ball out as soon as they get open - or even before - they won't get the opportunity to catch the ball.

I OU a Beatn
06-09-2011, 06:25 PM
It's proven that different difficulty levels affect how defenders react, it's obvious to me imo.

React, yes. Where they drop on the field, no. The issue is with the defenders dropping to the wrong spot on the field, so unless EA set it for the defender's positions to be affected by the difficulty level this year, then that isn't the issue.

With the Clemson video, there weren't many opportunities to judge the zone coverage as he was picking terrible plays, however, the last one was the PERFECT example - the 4th down play. Watch the RB. What exactly are the two LBs doing? The RB is wide open because the MLB and the OLB decide to do some kind of dance and not even bother covering him. If the dude playing had a clue, that was an easy 15 yard pickup right over the middle.

Also, mark my words, kick offs are going to be a huge issue online. I thought the exact same thing yesterday when I saw the first two videos. There's some gigantic running lanes and as the person in the video showed, if you start out one way and then do a little cut to the opposite side, you basically have to make one or two guys miss and it's off to the races.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I do recall difficulty level affecting the ease of kick off returns, so I'll have to wait and see how the kick off coverage is on All American.

Paakaa10
06-09-2011, 06:30 PM
http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/sczone1-1.png
Here is the play art above.

http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/sczone1-2.png
The play and coverages develop.

http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/sczone1-3.png
The LB receiver may look a bit open here, but if the ball goes to him he's probably not going to hold onto it when the linebacker hits him.

The A and B receivers are covered to the point where it would be very low percentage to throw their way.

The X and Y receivers look a bit open as well, but the defenders are close enough that a pass attempt to either one could just as easily result in a deflection, interception, or the ball being jarred loose if the receiver caught it.

Play Result: QB sacked by the defensive line.

I OU a Beatn
06-09-2011, 06:32 PM
Yeah, all the other plays looked fine to me. I think part of that was because he wasn't necessarily running plays that would be effective against zone coverage, but it does look good. The 4th down play however, looked like anything but good. I mean the RB was wide open and was only open because of the two LBs being in completely wrong positions on the field.

Paakaa10
06-09-2011, 06:34 PM
http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/sczone2-1.png
The play art, again.

http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/sczone2-2.png
The play and coverages develop. The LB receiver is being played very tightly, and the A receiver is about to make a cut so a pass would not be ideal at this stage.

The B receiver is the best option because it would appear that the defensive back is playing back to account for the A receiver since LB is handled.

http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/sczone2-3.png
The pass goes to the B receiver and it takes fancy footwork on the sidelines to stay in-bounds.

Play Result: 5 yard passing gain.

Paakaa10
06-09-2011, 06:36 PM
http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/sczone3-1.png
The play art.

http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/sczone3-2.png
In my mind, the A and X receivers are out almost immediately because coverage is tight on them.

There's a little bit of space for the B receiver, but the Y receiver in the flat is the most available option at this point. Depending on the closing speed of the defender to that side, he may or may not be able to pick up the 5 yards remaining for the 1st Down.

http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/sczone3-3.png
Admittedly, Ben forces the pass to the B receiver here who is being double-covered. As should happen on a bad decision like this, the play is unsuccessful.

Play Result: Incomplete pass.

Paakaa10
06-09-2011, 06:39 PM
http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/sczone4-1.png
The play art for this horribly not-sim 4th-and-5 conversion attempt.

http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/sczone4-2.png
The defense is actually in pretty good coverage position here; in this screencap, the only receiver who looks like he has space at the moment is the Y receiver; and that's just because--due to the quality of the image and the placement of "Y" icon--you can't see the defender tracking him on the flat.

http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/sczone4-2a.png
The icons disappear in this shot because the ball is in the process of being delivered; I do agree with I OU here in his view that the LB receiver will be breaking behind the MLB because the MLB is leaning towards the right and not correctly reading the route for the receiver coming back in. If Ben had waited, I must admit that this would probably have resulted in a 1st Down conversion and then some because there is space in the middle of the field here.

http://pursuitofperfection10.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/sczone4-3.png
When Ben forces the pass to the X receiver, the covering defender just has to step in front of the pass and knock it down to send South Carolina's offense off the field.

Play Result: Incomplete pass; turnover on downs.

Paakaa10
06-09-2011, 06:40 PM
I'm going to go back through those screen capture posts and try to analyze and weigh in based on what I've played so far; if any other Community Event guys would like to do so as well--or if people who haven't played the game would like to help us break down as well--feel free to use the images in your own posts.

I OU a Beatn
06-09-2011, 06:43 PM
Watch 4:15-4:20. Watch what the two Linebackers do and how open the RB gets because of it. That's my only complaint in the video. If you look at your last capture and see #21 at the bottom of the screen...there's no way even close to him and it was because of some weird coverage decision by the two LBs.

Pig Bomb
06-09-2011, 06:46 PM
Yeah, all the other plays looked fine to me. I think part of that was because he wasn't necessarily running plays that would be effective against zone coverage, but it does look good. The 4th down play however, looked like anything but good. I mean the RB was wide open and was only open because of the two LBs being in completely wrong positions on the field.

which happens all the time every Saturday when I watch real football....as long as it's not an every play kinda thing I expect teams to screw up and blow it sometimes

I OU a Beatn
06-09-2011, 06:50 PM
That works in real life, that doesn't work on a game. If a MLB is supposed to take away the middle portion of that field, I expect that to happen. I don't expect him to get totally confused and leave a man wide open for an easy first down on a 4th down play. Besides, it's not once. $50 says if he would've run that play again against the same defense, the exact same thing would've happened. They're AI glitches and they need to be removed.

morsdraconis
06-09-2011, 06:57 PM
Watch 4:15-4:20. Watch what the two Linebackers do and how open the RB gets because of it. That's my only complaint in the video. If you look at your last capture and see #21 at the bottom of the screen...there's no way even close to him and it was because of some weird coverage decision by the two LBs.

The play was some type of Cover 3 out of the 4-3 set. It looked to me that the CPU specifically changed the way that the zones worked on that play because the middle LB should have been more toward the middle part of the field and not so close to the OLB that was covering the TE.

It looks to me that the MLB read the fake of the RB going outside and then coming in by trying to jump the route and therefore got beat by the RB making the break toward the middle of the field.

Paakaa10
06-09-2011, 07:01 PM
Finished my amateur hour play analysis in those posts if anybody cares to read them haha.

Paakaa10
06-09-2011, 07:06 PM
It should be noted that the MLB appears to play the LB receiver differently--despite it being the same route--in Plays #1 and #4.

I OU a Beatn
06-09-2011, 07:09 PM
It looks to me that the MLB read the fake of the RB going outside and then coming in by trying to jump the route and therefore got beat by the RB making the break toward the middle of the field.

Yes, but why is the MLB buying that fake when the outside LB would have the area the RB would go if he carried out with the fake? The MLB should have dropped more towards the middle of the field, and then everyone would have been covered.

morsdraconis
06-09-2011, 07:18 PM
It should be noted that the MLB appears to play the LB receiver differently--despite it being the same route--in Plays #1 and #4.

He still bites on the route fake by the LB receiver. Definitely a fact that the LB receiver is faking the route one way then coming another way.

Not sure how I should feel about that. I think, maybe, in that instance, the MLB should be avoiding even worrying about the LB receiver faking a route since it's going away from his zone coverage section, but, it's, again, clearly a Cover 3 play, this time from I think the 1-5-5 Prowler formation (since the CPU has everyone but one defensive lineman standing up). It's definitely a Cover 3 Zone Blitz play, but, again, I'm not sure what's up with the MLB trying to jump a route that he probably shouldn't be trying to jump.

NatureBoy
06-09-2011, 07:24 PM
Thanks for posting the South Carolina vs Clemson video Paakaa10. It's good to see my Gamecocks got some love at E3.

Geauxlden
06-09-2011, 07:31 PM
Maybe my eyes are fooling me but on the 4th and 5 play it looks like the defense is actually running cover 4 out of a 4-3 base. Part of what makes it look funny is that the safety and the corner on the right side of the screen look like they are too close together. I think the OLB should have the flat while the MLB should have the middle of the field. It looks like the MLB runs to the TE (A receiver) and then passes him off which drags him out of the middle of the field. The OLB covers the RB (LB receiver) but then passes him off because the MLB should be covering the middle. Just my 2-bit analysis based off of the screens.

Paakaa10
06-09-2011, 07:40 PM
He still bites on the route fake by the LB receiver. Definitely a fact that the LB receiver is faking the route one way then coming another way.

Not sure how I should feel about that. I think, maybe, in that instance, the MLB should be avoiding even worrying about the LB receiver faking a route since it's going away from his zone coverage section, but, it's, again, clearly a Cover 3 play, this time from I think the 1-5-5 Prowler formation (since the CPU has everyone but one defensive lineman standing up). It's definitely a Cover 3 Zone Blitz play, but, again, I'm not sure what's up with the MLB trying to jump a route that he probably shouldn't be trying to jump.

I think I messed up, actually, after re-watching Play #1; looks like it's the OLB who covers the LB receiver because the MLB is bringing pressure at the middle of the line. Changes my analysis a little bit.


Maybe my eyes are fooling me but on the 4th and 5 play it looks like the defense is actually running cover 4 out of a 4-3 base. Part of what makes it look funny is that the safety and the corner on the right side of the screen look like they are too close together. I think the OLB should have the flat while the MLB should have the middle of the field. It looks like the MLB runs to the TE (A receiver) and then passes him off which drags him out of the middle of the field. The OLB covers the RB (LB receiver) but then passes him off because the MLB should be covering the middle. Just my 2-bit analysis based off of the screens.

Looks like the OLB drops into a mid-zone to the sidelines and passes the LB receiver off to the MLB, who would be in perfect position to defend the pass if Ben had thrown there instead of to the X receiver on the same timing. It's just the apparent failure of the MLB to recognize his new responsibility on the LB receiver that opens up the potential for that to be a big gain.

Geauxlden
06-09-2011, 07:45 PM
I think I messed up, actually, after re-watching Play #1; looks like it's the OLB who covers the LB receiver because the MLB is bringing pressure at the middle of the line. Changes my analysis a little bit.



Looks like the OLB drops into a mid-zone to the sidelines and passes the LB receiver off to the MLB, who would be in perfect position to defend the pass if Ben had thrown there instead of to the X receiver on the same timing. It's just the apparent failure of the MLB to recognize his new responsibility on the LB receiver that opens up the potential for that to be a big gain.

I have no idea about that MLB's rating or experience, but that kind of stuff does happen in real life. Now if it happens every time it's an issue, but I don't think we can make a solid judgement based off of this limited sample size.

Deuce
06-09-2011, 07:50 PM
I don't think we can make a solid judgement based off of this limited sample size.

+1

rhombic21
06-09-2011, 08:21 PM
Personally, what I think happened is that the LB moved out to guard the guy, and then the QB threw the ball so he stopped covering and shifted his attention downfield. It seemed like it might have just been the timing of those two things happening when they did that caused it to look like there was going to be a huge hole in coverage where the HB went uncovered.

The game comes out in a month. We can debate all this stuff in terms of how zones are, or how the game plays, but there's no real point to it. I haven't seen anything so far that would make me want to not purchase the game. I'm usually pretty critical, but from what I've seen it looks like they've made some reasonable improvements over NCAA '11 that make it a worthwhile upgrade. We'll all have the game soon enough, so at this point the impressions and debate don't really mean anything to me.

rhombic21
06-09-2011, 08:38 PM
Also, when people are looking at the zones to see who is open, you have to take into consideration what the coverage is, because some things are designed to be open against some coverages. Also, if we're talking about zone blitzes, then you'd expect there to be more things open by simple virtue of the fact that the defense is covering with fewer players. Really the whole purpose of a zone blitz is to take advantage of the element of surprise and cause confusion. If the offense identifies the zone blitz correctly pre-snap, then you shouldn't expect it to be effective because there are areas that will be vacated. If you go back and break down the videos, there really haven't been all that many plays with pure zone coverage (i.e. dropping 7 or 8 defenders).

The only problem in a pure zone coverage play that I've seen is with Cover 2, where they still have the CBs playing too aggressive against the flats, and where the defenders in the hook zones over the seams don't get enough depth or force a vertical threat to go wide. You can fix the first issue by hot routing to buzz zones, but the second issue is a little more problematic.

Whenever people are breaking down these defensive plays, I think it's important to keep in mind whether it's a good defensive playcall. That's the real issue here. On NCAA '11 you can call zone defenses that should completely shut certain things down (i.e. cover 4 against 4 verticals), and it still gets wide open. It was frustrating because you could essentially bait your opponent into thinking that you were playing one thing while actually doing something else, and they'd still get the play because your guys weren't anywhere near the appropriate areas. Also, there were some things, like wheel routes, which essentially got open against any zone coverage because defenders wouldn't properly recognize that the wheel route player was entering their area and was their responsibility.

I don't think the standard here should be that zones should never have any openings, that's completely unrealistic. As long as things have improved to the point where good defensive playcalls are rewarded and where people can't just shred zones in the intermediate areas on 3rd and 10-15 everytime, or call 4 verticals or wheel routes and have them be wide open all the time, then I think that's a valuable improvement. Put it this way: if east room lobby players are punting on 4th and 6 because zones aren't a gimmie to take apart, then the improvements will be meaningful.

Also, I have to say that to this point I have been pleasantly surprised by what I have seen from the pass rush. There's still a little too much "all or nothing" to it, in terms of either getting instant pressure or the QB having a completely clean pocket, but it seems like there's a little more teeth to things, especially up the middle. Hard to say for sure without knowing the ratings, but I thought the videos of the Nebraska-OSU game showed a decent amount of pressure, and had two sacks from a DT, which I don't think I've ever seen on NCAA '11. If that was on Varsity and not AA, then that would be an even better sign (but I don't think it's productive to debate about what difficulty setting we're seeing, because there's simply no way to know for sure).

I'm also wondering how the changes in the collision system impact things like blitz pickup, where you have linemen that might have enough of an angle to slow a guy down but not to completely make the block. In previous games you'd see instances where players would warp into the sumo wrestling animation in completely unrealistic situations, which made a lot of blitzes less effective than they should have been. From the videos that I've seen so far, it looks like that might be improved, so that now those situations result in the defensive player essentially getting pushed initially, but not completely stalled/blocked so that the QB has all day.

Rudy
06-09-2011, 09:01 PM
Is it me or does the camera seem a bit lower on passing plays?

I OU a Beatn
06-09-2011, 11:35 PM
It might have had something to do with the QB throwing, but if you watch the full animation of the MLB, that doesn't seem to be the case. It looked to me like he bit on a fake that he shouldn't have bit on, and was in the process of taking his good old time getting back to where he was supposed to have been. It was a bang bang play, but I have to believe the RB would've been wide open there for a first down.

It is pretty well pointless to discuss it. Maybe we're all a bit too eager to get our hands on it for ourselves.

xMrHitStickx904
06-09-2011, 11:42 PM
Also, when people are looking at the zones to see who is open, you have to take into consideration what the coverage is, because some things are designed to be open against some coverages. Also, if we're talking about zone blitzes, then you'd expect there to be more things open by simple virtue of the fact that the defense is covering with fewer players. Really the whole purpose of a zone blitz is to take advantage of the element of surprise and cause confusion. If the offense identifies the zone blitz correctly pre-snap, then you shouldn't expect it to be effective because there are areas that will be vacated. If you go back and break down the videos, there really haven't been all that many plays with pure zone coverage (i.e. dropping 7 or 8 defenders).

The only problem in a pure zone coverage play that I've seen is with Cover 2, where they still have the CBs playing too aggressive against the flats, and where the defenders in the hook zones over the seams don't get enough depth or force a vertical threat to go wide. You can fix the first issue by hot routing to buzz zones, but the second issue is a little more problematic.

Whenever people are breaking down these defensive plays, I think it's important to keep in mind whether it's a good defensive playcall. That's the real issue here. On NCAA '11 you can call zone defenses that should completely shut certain things down (i.e. cover 4 against 4 verticals), and it still gets wide open. It was frustrating because you could essentially bait your opponent into thinking that you were playing one thing while actually doing something else, and they'd still get the play because your guys weren't anywhere near the appropriate areas. Also, there were some things, like wheel routes, which essentially got open against any zone coverage because defenders wouldn't properly recognize that the wheel route player was entering their area and was their responsibility.

I don't think the standard here should be that zones should never have any openings, that's completely unrealistic. As long as things have improved to the point where good defensive playcalls are rewarded and where people can't just shred zones in the intermediate areas on 3rd and 10-15 everytime, or call 4 verticals or wheel routes and have them be wide open all the time, then I think that's a valuable improvement. Put it this way: if east room lobby players are punting on 4th and 6 because zones aren't a gimmie to take apart, then the improvements will be meaningful.

Also, I have to say that to this point I have been pleasantly surprised by what I have seen from the pass rush. There's still a little too much "all or nothing" to it, in terms of either getting instant pressure or the QB having a completely clean pocket, but it seems like there's a little more teeth to things, especially up the middle. Hard to say for sure without knowing the ratings, but I thought the videos of the Nebraska-OSU game showed a decent amount of pressure, and had two sacks from a DT, which I don't think I've ever seen on NCAA '11. If that was on Varsity and not AA, then that would be an even better sign (but I don't think it's productive to debate about what difficulty setting we're seeing, because there's simply no way to know for sure).

I'm also wondering how the changes in the collision system impact things like blitz pickup, where you have linemen that might have enough of an angle to slow a guy down but not to completely make the block. In previous games you'd see instances where players would warp into the sumo wrestling animation in completely unrealistic situations, which made a lot of blitzes less effective than they should have been. From the videos that I've seen so far, it looks like that might be improved, so that now those situations result in the defensive player essentially getting pushed initially, but not completely stalled/blocked so that the QB has all day.

This whole post.

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-10-2011, 01:50 AM
Also, when people are looking at the zones to see who is open, you have to take into consideration what the coverage is, because some things are designed to be open against some coverages. Also, if we're talking about zone blitzes, then you'd expect there to be more things open by simple virtue of the fact that the defense is covering with fewer players. Really the whole purpose of a zone blitz is to take advantage of the element of surprise and cause confusion. If the offense identifies the zone blitz correctly pre-snap, then you shouldn't expect it to be effective because there are areas that will be vacated. If you go back and break down the videos, there really haven't been all that many plays with pure zone coverage (i.e. dropping 7 or 8 defenders).

The only problem in a pure zone coverage play that I've seen is with Cover 2, where they still have the CBs playing too aggressive against the flats, and where the defenders in the hook zones over the seams don't get enough depth or force a vertical threat to go wide. You can fix the first issue by hot routing to buzz zones, but the second issue is a little more problematic.

Whenever people are breaking down these defensive plays, I think it's important to keep in mind whether it's a good defensive playcall. That's the real issue here. On NCAA '11 you can call zone defenses that should completely shut certain things down (i.e. cover 4 against 4 verticals), and it still gets wide open. It was frustrating because you could essentially bait your opponent into thinking that you were playing one thing while actually doing something else, and they'd still get the play because your guys weren't anywhere near the appropriate areas. Also, there were some things, like wheel routes, which essentially got open against any zone coverage because defenders wouldn't properly recognize that the wheel route player was entering their area and was their responsibility.

I don't think the standard here should be that zones should never have any openings, that's completely unrealistic. As long as things have improved to the point where good defensive playcalls are rewarded and where people can't just shred zones in the intermediate areas on 3rd and 10-15 everytime, or call 4 verticals or wheel routes and have them be wide open all the time, then I think that's a valuable improvement. Put it this way: if east room lobby players are punting on 4th and 6 because zones aren't a gimmie to take apart, then the improvements will be meaningful.

Also, I have to say that to this point I have been pleasantly surprised by what I have seen from the pass rush. There's still a little too much "all or nothing" to it, in terms of either getting instant pressure or the QB having a completely clean pocket, but it seems like there's a little more teeth to things, especially up the middle. Hard to say for sure without knowing the ratings, but I thought the videos of the Nebraska-OSU game showed a decent amount of pressure, and had two sacks from a DT, which I don't think I've ever seen on NCAA '11. If that was on Varsity and not AA, then that would be an even better sign (but I don't think it's productive to debate about what difficulty setting we're seeing, because there's simply no way to know for sure).

I'm also wondering how the changes in the collision system impact things like blitz pickup, where you have linemen that might have enough of an angle to slow a guy down but not to completely make the block. In previous games you'd see instances where players would warp into the sumo wrestling animation in completely unrealistic situations, which made a lot of blitzes less effective than they should have been. From the videos that I've seen so far, it looks like that might be improved, so that now those situations result in the defensive player essentially getting pushed initially, but not completely stalled/blocked so that the QB has all day.

again... this whole post...

"E"

psusnoop
06-10-2011, 06:45 AM
Maybe my eyes are fooling me but on the 4th and 5 play it looks like the defense is actually running cover 4 out of a 4-3 base. Part of what makes it look funny is that the safety and the corner on the right side of the screen look like they are too close together. I think the OLB should have the flat while the MLB should have the middle of the field. It looks like the MLB runs to the TE (A receiver) and then passes him off which drags him out of the middle of the field. The OLB covers the RB (LB receiver) but then passes him off because the MLB should be covering the middle. Just my 2-bit analysis based off of the screens.


My eyes see the same cover 4 out of the 4-3 as well Geauxlden.

Pig Bomb
06-10-2011, 07:12 AM
I'm interested to find out how the changes in tackling and on defense will impact an option run based offense [flex or bone] and/or a Power/Maryland I type running team.
Those are the types of offenses I want to run and in years past there have been many plays withing that style that were too easy and cheesy - thus I couldn't [wouldn't] use them.
I want the freedom to call all the option and power runs dangit!

Paakaa10
06-10-2011, 08:19 AM
The game comes out in a month. We can debate all this stuff in terms of how zones are, or how the game plays, but there's no real point to it. I haven't seen anything so far that would make me want to not purchase the game. I'm usually pretty critical, but from what I've seen it looks like they've made some reasonable improvements over NCAA '11 that make it a worthwhile upgrade. We'll all have the game soon enough, so at this point the impressions and debate don't really mean anything to me.

Your two posts on this page of the thread are gold, and I find myself nodding my head in agreement pretty much all the way through each of them.

Being fortunate enough to attend Community Events this year, I know that zone defense is in good shape and the game as a whole is improved over NCAA Football 11. My screen-capture analysis of that South Carolina video from yesterday was merely an exercise to see whether or not a previous poster was correct in saying that receivers were wide open in each of the plays. Of course, none of what was released this week--barely one half of gameplay outside of the broadcast camera videos--is a sufficient enough sample size to really definitively make any points either way.

Really good analysis though; and I'm glad you're seeing things that make the game seem like a worthwhile purchase this year, because I know the developers and the Community Event guys--some who showed up in Orlando with notebooks full of plays and full descriptions of offensive and defensive philosophies--really had a goal this year of bringing--and helping to bring--some fundamental improvements to the game.

PeteyKirch
06-10-2011, 08:22 AM
The only thing that has made me nervous watching the small sample of videos is the CPU cannot run out of Shotgun with any consistent success. Watching that NEB/PSU game yesterday it seemed Brasky was getting stuffed for a 2/3 yard loss every run out of the Shotgun. On the other hand there was the hint of positive news from that RTG #4 Video where the one QB ran for 100+ yards on 15 carries and what not from the stat bar update on the bottom. Hopefully there is a way to give the CPU a better rush attack for these Shotgun Spread teams without over powering the Power Running teams.

Kwizzy
06-10-2011, 08:56 AM
There's still a little too much "all or nothing" to it, in terms of either getting instant pressure or the QB having a completely clean pocket

Agreed Rhombic, nice posts & completely spot on. I have been saying for awhile that part of the problems with the game are that there are too many dramatic win/loss animations. Either the DL comes completely free or he's stonewalled, either the WR is completely stuffed at the line or the CB ends up 10 yds behind, etc... I think this year has made a good step in that diresction with the new collision system & I hope that trend continues.

Sinister
06-10-2011, 10:07 AM
Paakaa10- Did you see the cpu having issues with running out of shotgun at the community events? Is this something that can be tuned before release or does this require tuning update.

Paakaa10
06-10-2011, 11:33 AM
Paakaa10- Did you see the cpu having issues with running out of shotgun at the community events? Is this something that can be tuned before release or does this require tuning update.

I don't want to speak for what can or can't be tuned before release or in a tuning update after the game is in the stores, because I don't have the technical knowledge necessary to understand that and pass along that information 100%.

I can say that the CPU shotgun running seemed to be hit and miss the last time I played the game which was nearly a month ago. Some runs worked, some runs didn't. It was something that I brought up and hopefully there was/is time to make adjustments if they're needed.

I did bring up in this thread, however, the comment from Christian McLeod of Operation Sports on Twitter last night which does sound hopeful:

Bumble14_OS: Played against CPU Baylor in #ncaa12 and got shredded by their option, mobile QB, and run from shotgun. All on All American difficulty.

At the same time, Hellisan at TraditionSportsOnline.com also said this earlier in the week:

My concern remains with the cpu offense. I think we’re going to have to help them out with sliders, or you might see a lot of leagues running Heisman sliders this year. I just never gave up much in the way of points, and especially against teams that run the spread offense, you just don’t see a lot of successful strategy out of them.
...
And not to make this a post full of complaints because I like some things but the read option / newfangled shotgun option offense was just bad. Obviously Auburn no longer has Newton, but ugly things like an intercepted pitch and bad tackles for loss were rearing their ugly heads.

At this point in time we don't know what build was being played at E3 and whether or not it was any further along that what we played at the last Community Event in mid-May.

The biggest thing to take from all this--for me--is that the feedback just needs to come in when the demo is released on June 28th and when the full game comes out on July 12th. If this part of the game is not working correctly, we'll be seeing it and sending word back to the developers and you all can be a part of that process in helping the game get better as well.

Tarhead10
06-10-2011, 12:06 PM
Watching these videos I do like that kickoffs and kick returns seem more realistic than last year.. I like how in the Clemson USC video that there were lanes in the return that u could exploit and take them without being sucked in to coverage, very realistic as if you get those windows of opportunity....

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-10-2011, 06:11 PM
good GOD... the intercepted pitch is still in the game....?? thats pathetic...

"E"

Jayrah
06-10-2011, 06:56 PM
good GOD... the intercepted pitch is still in the game....?? thats pathetic...

"E"

Why? If qb's pitched the ball when the defender was standing right there, that's what's gonna happen... I mean what do you want to see, a knockdown?

That said, I would like to see the option played more realistically on defense, with the defender mirroring and attacking the rb instead of jumping the lane. That's the real problem I guess.

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-10-2011, 07:08 PM
Why? If qb's pitched the ball when the defender was standing right there, that's what's gonna happen... I mean what do you want to see, a knockdown?

That said, I would like to see the option played more realistically on defense, with the defender mirroring and attacking the rb instead of jumping the lane. That's the real problem I guess.

you argued my point for me lol... its a fundamental flaw that is TERRIBLE and seeds bad ideas in my kids thinking they can steal a pitch from mid air... nothing i hate more than a kid saying "but i do it all the time on NCAA/Madden"... :fp::fp: (double facepalm)

"E"

rhombic21
06-10-2011, 08:09 PM
good GOD... the intercepted pitch is still in the game....?? thats pathetic...

"E"

What video are you referring to?

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-10-2011, 08:23 PM
not video... just the comments quoted from Hellisan @ TSO from the last page of this thread...


My concern remains with the cpu offense. I think we’re going to have to help them out with sliders, or you might see a lot of leagues running Heisman sliders this year. I just never gave up much in the way of points, and especially against teams that run the spread offense, you just don’t see a lot of successful strategy out of them.
...
And not to make this a post full of complaints because I like some things but the read option / newfangled shotgun option offense was just bad. Obviously Auburn no longer has Newton, but ugly things like an intercepted pitch and bad tackles for loss were rearing their ugly heads.

just annoying i guess that it is still in the game... when it is such a rare occurrence in real life... but with the smoothness of the game and what seems to be a more accelerated run those things might not happen as much... i just hate to see it there... if anything the defender should clean the pitch mans clock on the ball roll around... but to pick it off mid-air is stupid...

"E"

JeffHCross
06-10-2011, 11:16 PM
just annoying i guess that it is still in the game... when it is such a rare occurrence in real life...To be fair, it's pretty rare for a real-life QB to pitch the ball when there's a defender between him and the HB. I agree that it sucks, but I'm also not sure of the solution short of ignoring user input at that point. (The CPU making the same mistake is a different story.)

WolverineJay
06-11-2011, 12:56 AM
good GOD... the intercepted pitch is still in the game....?? thats pathetic...

"E"

http://www.livestream.com/electronicarts/video?clipId=pla_485d9a2b-c3b7-4a81-90de-2861330c3e35&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumb

Video from E3 2012 Live EA event. The game is being played in broadcast camera mode so no human controlled players, but around the 5:15 mark or so in the video CB #15 of Nebraska intercepts the option pitch and takes it back for a TD. He runs about 95 yards in 10 seconds that's pretty darn fast for a guy who I believe was about 90 Spd in NCAA 11(although he wasn't starting at a dead stop it still seems too fast for me).

JeffHCross
06-11-2011, 01:54 AM
(although he wasn't starting at a dead stop it still seems too fast for me).I'd agree ... though we don't know what the settings were for the vid, do we?

Jayrah
06-11-2011, 04:23 AM
Good to hear that 15-20 dive catches were added. Was worried there might just be a low/mid/high dive.

No questions on the bull rush? :D

LOL at the way they explain player rights.

xMrHitStickx904
06-11-2011, 11:32 AM
now even though it was never as prevalent, the intercepted pitch has always been in the game though as far back as NCAA 03.

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-11-2011, 12:05 PM
ahhhh i dont know... i remember you could cause the fumble but the ability to actually catch the ball was added recent... but anyways... it may not be that bad if we can get real explosive movements off the dive from triple options and explosion to attack on speed option as well... otherwise we will jsut make due in that area of the game... again...

"E"

xMrHitStickx904
06-11-2011, 12:50 PM
what's interesting is that I haven't seen any gameplay of people running an option attack yet. Hopefully the demo has a few flexbone formations so I can get a good feel on how the option blocking is this year.

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-11-2011, 01:10 PM
i think there should be an option team, spread option team, pro style, air raid in the demo... so we can get the flavor of each going in and how it plays especially if the demo is able to be tuned... direct feedback for each type would be available... then the tuning package for the game release will be on par... and should be good to go from week 1 of purchase...

my 2 cents... and hopes

"E"

morsdraconis
06-11-2011, 01:33 PM
i think there should be an option team, spread option team, pro style, air raid in the demo... so we can get the flavor of each going in and how it plays especially if the demo is able to be tuned... direct feedback for each type would be available... then the tuning package for the game release will be on par... and should be good to go from week 1 of purchase...

my 2 cents... and hopes

"E"

I completely agree E. Would be huge to more variation in the offensive types to help with feedback, since it appears that is what they are going for this year.

Jayrah
06-11-2011, 05:48 PM
ahhhh i dont know... i remember you could cause the fumble but the ability to actually catch the ball was added recent... but anyways... it may not be that bad if we can get real explosive movements off the dive from triple options and explosion to attack on speed option as well... otherwise we will jsut make due in that area of the game... again...

"E"

For me the LARGEST issue (actually contributing largely to the way the defense plays it currently) is that the pitch man is too far away, so the ball takes FOREVER to get out to him. Option game is normally a 1x5 relationship, 1 yd behind, 5 away. The pitch man in the game separates to anywhere from 6-7 yards away. The defensive player would actually play this correctly and run right into the outside shoulder of the rb if the relationship was maintained. IMO if they tied the relationship to awareness that would be pretty awesome. A less aware guy would not get the correct relationship all the time, leaving room for things like the intercepted pitch or a pitch that flies right by him on occasion if the qb pitches it and he was too close. In addition if the qb has a high awareness and his pitch man is not in good relationship he maybe should fake the pitch and keep it, and of course if neither is aware then you could have some problems in your option game. Prolly best to just stay to base running until either player is ready from an awareness standpoint. This to me is now the next level of things that is missing in the ncaa football series, the ability for one or both players in direct connection with each other to affect the game uniquely. Each individual player is now much better at it, but the combination of players would be just simply amazing.

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-11-2011, 10:38 PM
i dont know about coupling the pitch relationship (which you are correct standard is 1x5) with awareness... because that is a rule, practiced, repeated, and punished for NOT doing... its not something you are going to forget... NOW, in the theory of what you bring up if they add "option" categories for ratings such as "read" "pitch" for QB and just add an option back rating for a kid who excels in option schemes so maybe he isnt the fastest guy we recruit but in HS he ran the ball in a spread option from the gun and knows it well... vs a kid who played in pro style offense in HS and is used to I formation power plays and counter trey type runs... THAT would be some great additions...

"E"

Jayrah
06-12-2011, 01:32 AM
i dont know about coupling the pitch relationship (which you are correct standard is 1x5) with awareness... because that is a rule, practiced, repeated, and punished for NOT doing... its not something you are going to forget... NOW, in the theory of what you bring up if they add "option" categories for ratings such as "read" "pitch" for QB and just add an option back rating for a kid who excels in option schemes so maybe he isnt the fastest guy we recruit but in HS he ran the ball in a spread option from the gun and knows it well... vs a kid who played in pro style offense in HS and is used to I formation power plays and counter trey type runs... THAT would be some great additions...

"E"

I know :D I ran option as qb in HS.
Yeah somethin like that! That'll work!

illwill10
06-12-2011, 12:51 PM
Can anyone who has played it alreay tell me if Play Action works better than last year

jaymo76
06-12-2011, 01:30 PM
Can anyone who has played it alreay tell me if Play Action works better than last year

+1

morsdraconis
06-12-2011, 01:33 PM
Numerous people have said it works better. Just watch some of the videos. There's plenty of examples of it working just fine.

illwill10
06-12-2011, 01:42 PM
Numerous people have said it works better. Just watch some of the videos. There's plenty of examples of it working just fine.
I watched some vids. I just wanted to see how they felt it work.
I plan on running a Run-Heavy Prostyle Playbook. I want 60-75% of my passes to be PA. If it does work, I can put alot of PA in

illwill10
06-12-2011, 01:43 PM
Also how does the fatigue system work.
By the 3rd quarter, I would lose my 1st and 2nd string HBs to fatigue. It may have been how I had the sub sliders in

jaymo76
06-12-2011, 02:29 PM
This just popped into my head but I wonder if we play as a coordinator in dynasty will will still have the ability to play as other teams throughout the season AND will we be able to play both sides of the ball in those games? Personally I love to play random games throughout the season (eg help Idaho make a bowl). If this option is not available any longer it would be very dissapointing. Does anyone 100% know???

JeffHCross
06-12-2011, 09:39 PM
i dont know about coupling the pitch relationship (which you are correct standard is 1x5) with awareness... because that is a rule, practiced, repeated, and punished for NOT doing... its not something you are going to forgetSo is listening to the snap count in the huddle, or calling the right play ... yet you see people false start and call a different play than the one that was brought in from the sidelines. Option teams that are disciplined like the Service Academies aren't likely to forget their pitch relationship ... but it does happen.

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-13-2011, 11:07 AM
not the same argument... and im not sure where calling the wrong play comes from, unless you are referring to audibles, but even then if i give the ability to audible then it cant be anyones fault but mine as a coach since i trusted him to do so... but back to the pitch, its not the same as snap count, because it is dynamic always changing even in the same play with keeping up with the QB so i dont agree sorry...

forgetting to be pitch man or be in the right place is equivelant to pass blocking on a dive play called to you as RB lok

"E"

Jayrah
06-13-2011, 03:55 PM
No for me pitch relationship is probably closer to being a good or bad route runner as a wr.

JeffHCross
06-13-2011, 08:30 PM
but back to the pitch, its not the same as snap count, because it is dynamic always changing even in the same play with keeping up with the QB so i dont agree sorry... Your argument was that it's something they're not going to forget, because it's preached and practiced and drilled into them. So is listening to the snap count and getting it right. But mistakes do happen, at every level.

The "calling the wrong play" was a reference to a quarterback I once knew that somehow had the inexplicable ability to listen to the play call that came in from the sidelines (via a player, not signals), then turn around to the huddle and call a different play because he forgot. :D

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-13-2011, 10:40 PM
i understand your point... and our back and forth is prob just nit-picking on my part... snap counts always change... but the motion in for a tirple option and pitch relationship never changes... that was my point... but toMAYto / toMAHto... either way you say it someone, somewhere will always forget something...

i just had a spring practice with one (not our starter) who would listen to me tell the play, then i would walk off and he would forget it and call something else... so yes... i get that reference 100% :fp:

"E"

Jayrah
06-14-2011, 12:49 AM
i understand your point... and our back and forth is prob just nit-picking on my part... snap counts always change... but the motion in for a tirple option and pitch relationship never changes... that was my point... but toMAYto / toMAHto... either way you say it someone, somewhere will always forget something...

i just had a spring practice with one (not our starter) who would listen to me tell the play, then i would walk off and he would forget it and call something else... so yes... i get that reference 100% :fp:

"E"

It changes every play due to the qb's read and decision making down the line, actually. It's up to the rb to keep relationship no matter where the qb decides to make a move.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-14-2011, 01:41 AM
but back to the pitch, its not the same as snap count, because it is dynamic always changing even in the same play with keeping up with the QB so i dont agree sorry...

"E"

i already said that... you must have not seen it... but the "relationship" is always going to be "#x#" (i.e. 1x5) that part doesnt change...

"E"

Jayrah
06-14-2011, 06:56 AM
i already said that... you must have not seen it... but the "relationship" is always going to be "#x#" (i.e. 1x5) that part doesnt change...

"E"

I'd just like to see more option at work. Like you said a while ago it's tough to tell what impact the new collision system will have on this.

Is there anyone else who wishes the camera angle changed slightly on option plays so that you could see further down the line?

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

xGRIDIRONxGURUx
06-14-2011, 09:36 AM
yeah i used to play in nothing but overhead cam... for this reason... now that options actually can work near normal... i cant see the force players... =\

"E"