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gschwendt
05-03-2011, 11:47 AM
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5181/5640348861_d221ec3b55_b.jpg

NCAA Football 12 Designer Ben Haumiller discusses the changes made to Zone Defense in this year's game while new footage is showcased.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7WDgH5yVVg

CLW
05-03-2011, 11:52 AM
I see how you roll here at TGT. My people shall rise up and overthrow your authoritarian regime! :nod:

gschwendt
05-03-2011, 11:54 AM
I see how you roll here at TGT. My people shall rise up and overthrow your authoritarian regime! :nod:
Well, from now on, I'll just post the videos without actually watching them to see if the content is worthwhile :)

CLW
05-03-2011, 11:59 AM
Well, from now on, I'll just post the videos without actually watching them to see if the content is worthwhile :)

All content from "the fine folks" is worthwhile especially when the video is entitled "Brand New Footage showing changes...". :P

souljahbill
05-03-2011, 12:03 PM
I see how you roll here at TGT. My people shall rise up and overthrow your authoritarian regime! :nod:

I don't know why you even bothered. You should've known they would be on top of a new video or bit of news like Charlie Sheen on a "goddess." :p

gschwendt
05-03-2011, 12:04 PM
All content from "the fine folks" is worthwhile especially when the video is entitled "Brand New Footage showing changes...". :P
Even if it's posted (http://twitter.com/#!/EANCAAFootball/status/65410428267798529) nearly a week after I post it (http://www.thegamingtailgate.com/forums/showthread.php?2104-NCAA-Football-12-Draft-Night-Premiere-(Machinima-Sports-Gamespot-amp-GamerLiveTV))? ;)

CLW
05-03-2011, 12:20 PM
Even if it's posted (http://twitter.com/#!/EANCAAFootball/status/65410428267798529) nearly a week after I post it (http://www.thegamingtailgate.com/forums/showthread.php?2104-NCAA-Football-12-Draft-Night-Premiere-(Machinima-Sports-Gamespot-amp-GamerLiveTV))? ;)

Especially then.

JBHuskers
05-03-2011, 12:21 PM
Especially then.

Don't go to the Madden thread then :D

JBHuskers
05-03-2011, 12:24 PM
In regards to the video....the very first thing people are going to say (I can hear it now) is that the game is broken because zones work properly and their cheese no long works. In many different playthroughs within many different builds, I can say that I have a had a hard time getting a good offense going for the most part. It'll definitely take some adjusting.

psuexv
05-03-2011, 12:27 PM
I can't wait... being successful on offense will actually take some work.

psuexv
05-03-2011, 12:28 PM
In regards to the video....the very first thing people are going to say (I can hear it now) is that the game is broken because zones work properly and their cheese no long works.

True but I'm assuming that if you play on a lower skill level it will still be able to cheese.

psusnoop
05-03-2011, 12:29 PM
In regards to the video....the very first thing people are going to say (I can hear it now) is that the game is broken because zones work properly and their cheese no long works. In many different playthroughs within many different builds, I can say that I have a had a hard time getting a good offense going for the most part. It'll definitely take some adjusting.

Well I think this is fantastic. This is a much needed improvement in an area that will have a direct impact on games. My small ball game just may work well in this years version.

CLW
05-03-2011, 12:30 PM
In regards to the video....the very first thing people are going to say (I can hear it now) is that the game is broken because zones work properly and their cheese no long works. In many different playthroughs within many different builds, I can say that I have a had a hard time getting a good offense going for the most part. It'll definitely take some adjusting.

Yep "Zones = Cheese" will be all we hear when the demo drops. I just hope and pray they don't patch/tune it down. These morons need to learn how to read defenses properly and to take what the zone gives them.

JBHuskers
05-03-2011, 12:34 PM
Yeah....the guys that were at the CD's definitely provided a lot of good feedback on what didn't work or look right, and by the time April rolled around, we noticed a lot of those issues were addressed and for the most part already resolved.

psuexv
05-03-2011, 12:34 PM
Yep "Zones = Cheese" will be all we hear when the demo drops. I just hope and pray they don't patch/tune it down. These morons need to learn how to read defenses properly and to take what the zone gives them.

Do they really though. I mean if your just a random gamer(especially a young kid), do you really care about how real a game plays. I will say that I never really cheesed in my life but when I was in my teens, I just wanted a fun game that I could play.

I've said this for awhile and I think "difficulty" levels should be "realism" levels. Playing on Varsity is a video gamey experience where playing on Heisman the players play like their attributes are rated and the game play is as real as possible.

souljahbill
05-03-2011, 12:35 PM
Since I prefer running over passing, as long as I get some decent blocking, my offense should be ok.

Tarhead10
05-03-2011, 12:37 PM
Im loving the improvements...A corner should be able to react to pass in the flats when in zone, thats the way its suppose to be....Also I like in the first part of the video where the corner reacts to the QB telegraphing the pass to the flats..I also hope they dont change this or tone it down... Its make the game alot more challenging and that only leads to more fun and more playtime for serious gamers..

psuexv
05-03-2011, 12:38 PM
I just hope EA didn't over compensate. Ben says in the video that the skinny post will no longer be there...well sometimes it should. Please don't let it be like curl routes in '10, where they were impossible to hit after '09 where they were a guaranteed route.

JBHuskers
05-03-2011, 12:38 PM
Im loving the improvements...A corner should be able to react to pass in the flats when in zone, thats the way its suppose to be....Also I like in the first part of the video where the corner reacts to the QB telegraphing the pass to the flats..I also hope they dont change this or tone it down... Its make the game alot more challenging and that only leads to more fun and more playtime for serious gamers..

The scores of most users games at the various community days definitely reflected that.

gschwendt
05-03-2011, 12:40 PM
I just hope EA didn't over compensate. Ben says in the video that the skinny post will no longer be there...well sometimes it should. Please don't let it be like curl routes in '10, where they were impossible to hit after '09 where they were a guaranteed route.
Bear in mind that so long as you have complimentary routes, you can still hit various routes. Skinny posts aren't completely gone from the game... you just have to force the defender to make a decision and then read off of that.

JBHuskers
05-03-2011, 12:42 PM
Bear in mind that so long as you have complimentary routes, you can still hit various routes. Skinny posts aren't completely gone from the game... you just have to force the defender to make a decision and then read off of that.

I'm kinda wondering if the route running grade is going to come more into play for who you wanna recruit this year.

Pokes404
05-03-2011, 12:43 PM
The player movement looked a little more fluid in that video. There wasn't quite as much of the twitchy, "humming bird," movement going on there as there was in the first video. That's encouraging.

Now, they just need to eliminate the super-human swats and fix the pass speed/trajectories (so you can actually drop a ball over the linebacker but in front of the safety) and they'll be all set. Still almost 2 months left before the game goes gold.

Tarhead10
05-03-2011, 12:43 PM
I'm kinda wondering if the route running grade is going to come more into play for who you wanna recruit this year.

That would be nice if it would....

psuexv
05-03-2011, 12:45 PM
I'm kinda wondering if the route running grade is going to come more into play for who you wanna recruit this year.

Or if the zone coverage rating will?

morsdraconis
05-03-2011, 12:45 PM
Skinny post plus go route for instance will make the safety choose between one or the other so as long as you have someone else going deep on the other side of the field, there shouldn't be a major issue with the post being open (of course, that's against Cover 2).

psuexv
05-03-2011, 12:47 PM
I'm kinda wondering if the route running grade is going to come more into play for who you wanna recruit this year.

BTW - everything that you and G and everyone that attended CD posts makes me think too hard..... "hmmm, is he trying to say something", "is he F'in with me, what does he really know"

gschwendt
05-03-2011, 12:48 PM
BTW - everything that you and G and everyone that attended CD posts makes me think too hard..... "hmmm, is he trying to say something", "is he F'in with me, what does he really know"
When it comes to gameplay stuff, I'm not intentionally trying to be vague. If it's in Play Now, I'll do my best to answer and discuss it.

Tarhead10
05-03-2011, 12:50 PM
Something also that is a great addition is player recognition... Last year if players were in zone they STAYED in zone, even when a player enter the area with or without the ball.. I see in these videos that the awareness factor comes into play here as it should... Even though your in zone you can still recognize that someone is close and come to cover or even make a play on the ball in the area...

JBHuskers
05-03-2011, 12:51 PM
BTW - everything that you and G and everyone that attended CD posts makes me think too hard..... "hmmm, is he trying to say something", "is he F'in with me, what does he really know"

Hah no f'n with you stuff in this thread...yet

Tarhead10
05-03-2011, 12:56 PM
To any of the CD guys, how was the recognition in zone to stuff like lead draws and other delayed running plays???

Daywalker86
05-03-2011, 12:58 PM
They are really building up to the Dynasty and RTG news , hope it doesn't disappoint

gschwendt
05-03-2011, 12:59 PM
One thing I forgot to mention in our Preview thread, while we were down in Orlando, I called a Cover 2 Zone from Dime 326. With the time running out in the first half, the CPU called four verticals so after the verts ran past the hook zones, they kept carrying them down the field basically keeping a similar small gap between the deep coverage and the short coverage. What ended up happening was that my hook zone defenders were 20 yards down field... obviously last year they would have stopped at their 5-7 yard zone.

psuexv
05-03-2011, 01:03 PM
What ended up happening was that my hook zone defenders were 20 yards down field... obviously last year they would have stopped at their 5-7 yard zone.

Awesome

morsdraconis
05-03-2011, 01:04 PM
The real question is this: Does awareness play a role in how effective the zones are? Does the zone coverage attribute? Does play recognition have any effect on whether or not the defender realizes it's a run or pass play? Or is this another feature where they've minimized the player's attributes by making several pre-programmed setups and whatever happens happens?

Don't get me wrong, improved zone defense sounds awesome, it really does. But, is it just arbitrarily better or did they actually program it correctly by taking into account how good the defenders are rated and not just a few rating making the difference?

Last year, to be a good defense, you only needed 4 good attributes: Speed, Acceleration, Awareness, and Tackle. Everything else was meaningless when it came to the ratings. Didn't matter if the corner was good at man coverage or not, as long as they were super fast and had good awareness, they ran the routes better than WRs did 75% of the time.

Are they really going to be improved because the defenders do what they're supposed to do all the time or are they improved because the rest of their ratings actually matter? That still remains to be seen. I know one thing, I don't like the fact that LBs are able to drop 20 yards back, backpedaling the whole way back (~52secs in the video). That's some seriously unrealistic bullshit. It's great that they're playing inside on that play, but backpedaling that far back, even if it is a DB instead of a LB, is ridiculous. No way the defender should be extending their zones THAT far.

morsdraconis
05-03-2011, 01:05 PM
One thing I forgot to mention in our Preview thread, while we were down in Orlando, I called a Cover 2 Zone from Dime 326. With the time running out in the first half, the CPU called four verticals so after the verts ran past the hook zones, they kept carrying them down the field basically keeping a similar small gap between the deep coverage and the short coverage. What ended up happening was that my hook zone defenders were 20 yards down field... obviously last year they would have stopped at their 5-7 yard zone.

Did they backpedal the whole way?

psuexv
05-03-2011, 01:05 PM
Skinny post plus go route for instance will make the safety choose between one or the other so as long as you have someone else going deep on the other side of the field, there shouldn't be a major issue with the post being open (of course, that's against Cover 2).

And if you notice in the video when he's talking about them it's the LBs that are covering the inside of the posts. Now that can be easily taken advantage of by dragging or slanting your TE, but like I said I just hope it's not over compensated and they always cover the post.... hopefully you hit the TE a couple of times to draw the LB down and then smack the post.

gschwendt
05-03-2011, 01:09 PM
Did they backpedal the whole way?
I'm not positive but I think once the receivers passed them, they did start to turn & bail.

JBHuskers
05-03-2011, 01:22 PM
To any of the CD guys, how was the recognition in zone to stuff like lead draws and other delayed running plays???

I believe they'll start to charge once the ball is handed off or shortly after. As the QB drops back, they are in their normal zone principles. I am just not 100% sure of when the reaction to the run starts.

AustinWolv
05-03-2011, 01:23 PM
Liking what it discussed so far.


I can't wait... being successful on offense will actually take some work.
About damn time.

JBHuskers
05-03-2011, 01:23 PM
And if you notice in the video when he's talking about them it's the LBs that are covering the inside of the posts. Now that can be easily taken advantage of by dragging or slanting your TE, but like I said I just hope it's not over compensated and they always cover the post.... hopefully you hit the TE a couple of times to draw the LB down and then smack the post.

We have brought up the drag route possible problems with the TE...unfortunately the answer to if that is fixed may not be until the demo, unless the May event is still on.

souljahbill
05-03-2011, 01:33 PM
We have brought up the drag route possible problems with the TE...unfortunately the answer to if that is fixed may not be until the demo, unless the May event is still on.

The what event?

psuexv
05-03-2011, 01:36 PM
We have brought up the drag route possible problems with the TE...unfortunately the answer to if that is fixed may not be until the demo, unless the May event is still on.

So you're saying is there may be an issue with the defender covering the middle zone may never grab the TE?

ram29jackson
05-03-2011, 01:40 PM
well, can you pass the ball at all? who cares if the defender takes the inside if you can throw to the receivers outside shoulder ? ..will you be able to throw to outside shoulder? improved zones is great but you still need to find holes in the zones.

How flowing or scripted will the animations/logic be ?

ram29jackson
05-03-2011, 02:08 PM
ya' know.. with all the zone talk, i dont remember you guys talking about how you saw man to man working in the game ?

psuexv
05-03-2011, 02:12 PM
well, can you pass the ball at all? who cares if the defender takes the inside if you can throw to the receivers outside shoulder ? ..will you be able to throw to outside shoulder? improved zones is great but you still need to find holes in the zones.


Well if I'm running a skinny post and the MLB or Nickel has the under coverage on it(like they are showing in the vid), you are not getting a ball in there. Unless you can drop it over the top and in front of the safety(obviously depending on which defenses they are in)

Paakaa10
05-03-2011, 02:18 PM
The what event?

In EA SPORTS' write-up of the Community Events here (http://www.ea.com/ncaa-football/blog/ncaa-football-12-community-day-events), Community Manager Justin Dewiel wrote the following:


All 16 members will be invited back into the studio in May to give one final pass at the game. That means another 30 hours of hands on time for each guy. All told, there will have been at least 1,580 hours logged into providing feedback on NCAA Football 12 before you guys even get your hands on the demo.

souljahbill
05-03-2011, 02:25 PM
In EA SPORTS' write-up of the Community Events here (http://www.ea.com/ncaa-football/blog/ncaa-football-12-community-day-events), Community Manager Justin Dewiel wrote the following:

So, if we start asking a bunch of questions, can a master question list be made in order to take to the final event? Like, what color are the shoestrings at Ball State? The game needs realistic shoestring colors because that's a dealbreaker.

ram29jackson
05-03-2011, 02:25 PM
Well if I'm running a skinny post and the MLB or Nickel has the under coverage on it(like they are showing in the vid), you are not getting a ball in there. Unless you can drop it over the top and in front of the safety(obviously depending on which defenses they are in)

will this be scripted no matter what ratings and highth my receiver has ? thats the nature of my question. Just because the concept is there doesnt mean it needs to work every time ...?

JBHuskers
05-03-2011, 02:28 PM
So you're saying is there may be an issue with the defender covering the middle zone may never grab the TE?

There was we brought it up to be bugged and fixed.

Tarhead10
05-03-2011, 02:29 PM
In EA SPORTS' write-up of the Community Events here (http://www.ea.com/ncaa-football/blog/ncaa-football-12-community-day-events), Community Manager Justin Dewiel wrote the following:

Alright!!! get ready mods for interrogations....hahahaha

JBHuskers
05-03-2011, 02:29 PM
So, if we start asking a bunch of questions, can a master question list be made in order to take to the final event? Like, what color are the shoestrings at Ball State? The game needs realistic shoestring colors because that's a dealbreaker.

Once we get an official word of the event. This time around I'm not going to be able to spend four days of vacation to go, so I'm not sure what I will do for sure.

psuexv
05-03-2011, 02:34 PM
Once we get an official word of the event. This time around I'm not going to be able to spend four days of vacation to go, so I'm not sure what I will do for sure.

I can spike my hair and wear cheesy jewelry and go in your place.

JBHuskers
05-03-2011, 02:41 PM
I can spike my hair and wear cheesy jewelry and go in your place.

:D What. What? When did I start wearing cheesy jewelry?

Tarhead10
05-03-2011, 02:43 PM
I can spike my hair and wear cheesy jewelry and go in your place.


Nice.... :D

souljahbill
05-03-2011, 02:43 PM
:D What. What? When did I start wearing cheesy jewelry?

Are you a pimp?

ryby6969
05-03-2011, 02:44 PM
I like what they are saying about zone defense, but some of the movements have me a little bit worried. The TCU corner at like 1:10 is running sideways faster than the WR he is "covering". My main concern is that foot-planting and acceleration have taken a back seat to some of the animations to make them "react faster" to balls in their zones. I understand it is a WIP, but if there is an event this month if you guys who get to go could check on this it would be greatly appreciated. I just want to make sure that a LB with average ACC is not going to be able to make split second breaks on the ball to pick it or knock it down and be the new "super LB swat" for this year. If he is 5 yards away on a 10 yard pass, the best he should hope for is a big hit to knock the ball loose.

psuexv
05-03-2011, 02:51 PM
:D What. What? When did I start wearing cheesy jewelry?

LOL...sorry I guess that's some type of hall pass in your Twitter pic...

souljahbill
05-03-2011, 02:59 PM
LOL...sorry I guess that's some type of hall pass in your Twitter pic...

LMAO! :D

Good one

JBHuskers
05-03-2011, 03:00 PM
LOL...sorry I guess that's some type of hall pass in your Twitter pic...

Hah, my Madden Gras pass :P

ArkHogs
05-03-2011, 03:37 PM
I finally be able to run 4-2-5 :nod: :clap: :))

WolverineJay
05-03-2011, 04:11 PM
I like what they are saying about zone defense, but some of the movements have me a little bit worried. The TCU corner at like 1:10 is running sideways faster than the WR he is "covering". My main concern is that foot-planting and acceleration have taken a back seat to some of the animations to make them "react faster" to balls in their zones. I understand it is a WIP, but if there is an event this month if you guys who get to go could check on this it would be greatly appreciated. I just want to make sure that a LB with average ACC is not going to be able to make split second breaks on the ball to pick it or knock it down and be the new "super LB swat" for this year. If he is 5 yards away on a 10 yard pass, the best he should hope for is a big hit to knock the ball loose.

100% agreed. From this entire video I can clearly see that the defender backpedals and strafes faster than the offensive guy running his route which is unrealistic, dumb, and arcade football tactics. The speed of your offensive weapons will be negated it seems thanks to the highly unrealistic speed of both backpedaling and strafing.

Also something else caught my eye, at the start of the video the defender in the flat instantly jumps the flat route as soon as the QB starts his throwing motion seems like they amped up play recognition very high.

Rudy
05-03-2011, 06:35 PM
Yep "Zones = Cheese" will be all we hear when the demo drops. I just hope and pray they don't patch/tune it down. These morons need to learn how to read defenses properly and to take what the zone gives them.

Couldn't disagree more. As an offline player if I end up throwing 5 picks a game against a cpu defence that runs a crazy effective zone all day I will be pissed. Zones were useless last year and now I am fairly worried they will be overpowered. The EASY solution is to create a slider to differentiate between zone and man coverage. If they don't and offline people get frustrated and bitch on the forums the dev team will be 100% responsible imo.

Furthermore, how fair is it to say we made zone defence improved but don't improve WR AI at the same time? So defenders will slide back and forth properly to take away receivers but receivers will remain stupid and just sit still and let defenders cover them? Against a zone a good receiver adjusts hit route to the soft spot in the zone and slides away from defenders. They also break up potential INTs. It's already been stated that this hasn't been improved at all. So why zone defence has the potential to be accurate, corresponding offences won't be. This is why I'm so adamant that a separate slider be included.

Rudy
05-03-2011, 06:39 PM
100% agreed. From this entire video I can clearly see that the defender backpedals and strafes faster than the offensive guy running his route which is unrealistic, dumb, and arcade football tactics. The speed of your offensive weapons will be negated it seems thanks to the highly unrealistic speed of both backpedaling and strafing.

Also something else caught my eye, at the start of the video the defender in the flat instantly jumps the flat route as soon as the QB starts his throwing motion seems like they amped up play recognition very high.

Change of direction is still too quick. There isn't enough player weight and momentum in these videos imo.

Dr Death
05-03-2011, 06:50 PM
Furthermore, how fair is it to say we made zone defense improved but don't improve WR AI at the same time? So defenders will slide back and forth properly to take away receivers but receivers will remain stupid and just sit still and let defenders cover them? Against a zone a good receiver adjusts his route to the soft spot in the zone and slides away from defenders. They also break up potential INTs. It's already been stated that this hasn't been improved at all. So why zone defense has the potential to be accurate, corresponding offenses won't be. This is why I'm so adamant that a separate slider be included.

This!!! Every single offensive scheme preaches this and is common football knowledge. It can and should be tied into Awareness... but awareness needs an overhaul too. Last year, SMU, who run the Run & Shoot, had a roster filled w/ WR's who were under 70 in the awareness area in the game. They run this offense in practice every day... I think they understand the concept...

If possible... those of you who go to the May event, please see if they can incorporate WR awareness... because you never see a WR run a pattern into a zone and just stand there w/ a DB standing right beside him like they're sitting at the local bus stop.

I love the fact that zone defense is being addressed... but WR's need to react in real-world manners too.

Coachdenz
05-03-2011, 08:17 PM
all I want is balance, not every team needs to be able to play super zone Defense, if this is the case then I'm happy, but if Piss poor sister U can cover and play zone with the best of them, well I'm going to be a little upset.

Adibesee
05-03-2011, 08:43 PM
Here's a question for those that attended the EA event's - Do you feel they adjusted the trajectory of the ball eonugh so you can realistically drop the ball over Lb and in front of a safety? I think the new zone defense is great, but not if you can't put touch on the ball. IMO is was too dificult, almost random, in previous versions of the game.

I OU a Beatn
05-03-2011, 10:34 PM
all I want is balance, not every team needs to be able to play super zone Defense, if this is the case then I'm happy, but if Piss poor sister U can cover and play zone with the best of them, well I'm going to be a little upset.

This times infinity. Balance is the huge thing here. If they can balance out offense and defense, then they'll have themselves a winner.

xMrHitStickx904
05-04-2011, 02:53 AM
I didn't read all of the pages, so forgive me is this was mentioned before. To me, I think the zones will be as effective as long people can't easily drop back 20 yards, and throw dots perfectly down the field. There has some type of realistic penalty for wreckless QB play. Hopefully defense in general this year does that.

souljahbill
05-04-2011, 07:17 AM
At OS, (http://www.operationsports.com/forums/ncaa-football/480688-zone-defense-video-slow-motion.html)someone posted a video the Zone Coverage video in slo-mo and you can see how much ground the defense covers quickly backpedaling and shuffling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8PkX3IBpQ8&feature=player_embedded

JBHuskers
05-04-2011, 08:48 AM
Smart idea to do so people can break it down :nod:

skipwondah33
05-04-2011, 09:07 AM
all I want is balance, not every team needs to be able to play super zone Defense, if this is the case then I'm happy, but if Piss poor sister U can cover and play zone with the best of them, well I'm going to be a little upset.

They likely will be able to. Sure there may be a speed difference but the result could still be the same. Plus you could always factor in the gameplanning aspect by having the ability to set your team's coverage to aggressive.

kindella2
05-04-2011, 09:22 AM
While i only run zone 5% of the time i do think this is a welcome addition to the game. I hope the announcements he mentioned for RTG and Dynasty are good ones.

I like the new presentation and gameplay so far...keep it coming EA.

Pig Bomb
05-04-2011, 09:28 AM
I have to say... it looks really good!
I did NOT notice defensive players running with their backs to the QB, while running the WR routes before they do- like previous versions of the game.

My only concern is that EA will not be able to make teams that have different levels of skill and ability play differently. In other words, all the teams are going to play the same super zone defense now, no matter what rating they have.

However, I'd take eveyone playing awesome over everyone playing crappy zone D any day!

JBHuskers
05-04-2011, 09:43 AM
I have to say... it looks really good!
I did NOT notice defensive players running with their backs to the QB, while running the WR routes before they do- like previous versions of the game.

My only concern is that EA will not be able to make teams that have different levels of skill and ability play differently. In other words, all the teams are going to play the same super zone defense now, no matter what rating they have.

However, I'd take eveyone playing awesome over everyone playing crappy zone D any day!

There definitely is still room for blown coverage. It just isn't going to be as obvious as it was in the past. You are really going to have to adjust this year, and that is going to be a welcome challenge by many.

Jayrah
05-04-2011, 02:00 PM
I do think this zone video was made IN EARLY STAGES of the game builds. It just doesn't look polished. I mean I see the exact same things you guys see, but the concepts are what we need to search for here I think. The guys that went and have around 100 hrs playing and looking at the game aren't very worried and seem fairly confident that it won't look like this in the final product. I guarantee they would've said something to the devs if the strafing and sliding was as bad as it looks in the vid. The IDEA of the way zone is functioning is what we're looking for here.

I think there are also separate stages of the game that are made on their own, like zone is being made/worked on/taped by one group while the group that is taking out sliding waits for the concepts to be finished before addressing sliding issues. Then you put it together and it takes away a lot of the issues that we're seeing. That's my hope at least, and in a recent Madden blog they talked about how they couldn't wait to put the gameplay together, as if it was made separately and then combined.

steelerfan
05-04-2011, 02:26 PM
One thing I plan to do on my next visit is to play with mismatched teams to see how the pass D is different with lower-tier schools.

psusnoop
05-04-2011, 03:11 PM
One thing I plan to do on my next visit is to play with mismatched teams to see how the pass D is different with lower-tier schools.

Great idea and it would be welcomed by many.

ram29jackson
05-04-2011, 03:56 PM
At OS, (http://www.operationsports.com/forums/ncaa-football/480688-zone-defense-video-slow-motion.html)someone posted a video the Zone Coverage video in slo-mo and you can see how much ground the defense covers quickly backpedaling and shuffling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8PkX3IBpQ8&feature=player_embedded


the Mich State defender and TCU defender still slide alot

souljahbill
05-04-2011, 04:23 PM
One thing I plan to do on my next visit is to play with mismatched teams to see how the pass D is different with lower-tier schools.

Southern Miss has NO defense so you can play with or against them, preferably AT Southern Miss (I really just want to know if we have a generic entrance or not and if our mascot is in.:D).

steelerfan
05-04-2011, 04:41 PM
Southern Miss has NO defense so you can play with or against them, preferably AT Southern Miss (I really just want to know if we have a generic entrance or not and if our mascot is in.:D).

I think I will.

Whether or not I answer your questions is another story. :D

psusnoop
05-04-2011, 04:46 PM
I think I will.

Whether or not I answer your questions is another story. :D

OUCH....:D

souljahbill
05-04-2011, 04:50 PM
I think I will.

Whether or not I answer your questions is another story. :D

:p

Hey, I'm offering my alma mater as a test subject to rip apart to prove a point to the community. Throw me a bone. :D

Keontez
05-04-2011, 04:55 PM
Do they really though. I mean if your just a random gamer(especially a young kid), do you really care about how real a game plays. I will say that I never really cheesed in my life but when I was in my teens, I just wanted a fun game that I could play.

I've said this for awhile and I think "difficulty" levels should be "realism" levels. Playing on Varsity is a video gamey experience where playing on Heisman the players play like their attributes are rated and the game play is as real as possible.

This x1000

Rudy
05-04-2011, 06:31 PM
I do think this zone video was made IN EARLY STAGES of the game builds. It just doesn't look polished. I mean I see the exact same things you guys see, but the concepts are what we need to search for here I think. The guys that went and have around 100 hrs playing and looking at the game aren't very worried and seem fairly confident that it won't look like this in the final product. I guarantee they would've said something to the devs if the strafing and sliding was as bad as it looks in the vid. The IDEA of the way zone is functioning is what we're looking for here.

I think there are also separate stages of the game that are made on their own, like zone is being made/worked on/taped by one group while the group that is taking out sliding waits for the concepts to be finished before addressing sliding issues. Then you put it together and it takes away a lot of the issues that we're seeing. That's my hope at least, and in a recent Madden blog they talked about how they couldn't wait to put the gameplay together, as if it was made separately and then combined.

I hope your right. And I love steelerfan's idea of playing against a poor defence using zone. But don't forget to play with Oregon and against a cpu Oregon. I have to know how effective the cpu offense is while running that. Oregon should be explosive and they have always sucked in the past.

CLW
05-04-2011, 07:17 PM
The defenders do appear to be back pedaling a little too quickly. My guess is that a 10%-25% decrease in the speed of the back pedal compared to spring forwards would make a HUGE difference. However, I'd rather have that than our current state of zone defense = useless.

Jayrah
05-05-2011, 12:43 AM
The defenders do appear to be back pedaling a little too quickly. My guess is that a 10%-25% decrease in the speed of the back pedal compared to spring forwards would make a HUGE difference. However, I'd rather have that than our current state of zone defense = useless.

:D Good Point

JeffHCross
05-08-2011, 02:55 PM
Do they really though. I mean if your just a random gamer(especially a young kid), do you really care about how real a game plays. I will say that I never really cheesed in my life but when I was in my teens, I just wanted a fun game that I could play. It's a cop-out answer, but the real answer to this question is "Both". I mean, think about it. If you're a teenager playing Portal 2 or Ratchet & Clank, you have to figure out how the game works in order to beat it. Sure, there are various ways to beat each game, but at its core you still have to figure out how to play. Sports games should be no different. Should you be required to break down a defense like Peyton Manning? Absolutely not. But being forced to learn Play X doesn't work against Defense A is probably a good thing to require. Maybe you don't pick up on what tips off Defense A at first -- and that can be problematic (one reason I've been advocating a Tutorial Mode of sorts) -- but if you can at least learn that the CB has to be in a certain position for a slant to work, that's a positive.

BTW - everything that you and G and everyone that attended CD posts makes me think too hard..... "hmmm, is he trying to say something", "is he F'in with me, what does he really know"Trust me, that's just as hard on us as it is you. There are several threads here that I'm avoiding simply because I don't want anybody to take my posts as a fan and interpret them as posts as a CD guy with "inside knowledge".

The real question is this: Does awareness play a role in how effective the zones are?Not having explored this in depth on NCAA 12, I'll answer with NCAA 11 knowledge. Even with "broken" zones on 11, ZCV still plays a significant part on how defenders cover within their zone, and whether or not they're in a position to make a play on the ball. And AWR has a big impact on defenders figuring out who they're going to cover -- if you have a really low AWR guy, sometimes he'll jump the wrong receiver on a crossing route. I can't think of any reason that this stuff wouldn't extend to zones on 12, unless they totally reworked the code from the base up.

coogrfan
05-08-2011, 06:39 PM
Southern Miss has NO defense so you can play with or against them, preferably AT Southern Miss (I really just want to know if we have a generic entrance or not and if our mascot is in.:D).


I think I will.

Whether or not I answer your questions is another story. :D

Meh...So Miss finished 2010 ranked 47th in total defense. If you really want to see a bad defense in action you'll take a look at my 103rd ranked Houston Coogs. ;)

steelerfan
05-08-2011, 07:05 PM
Meh...So Miss finished 2010 ranked 47th in total defense. If you really want to see a bad defense in action you'll take a look at my 103rd ranked Houston Coogs. ;)

:)

Who was 120? Maybe I'll give them a look, lol.

JeffHCross
05-08-2011, 07:14 PM
Total Defense: ECU (New Mexico was 119)
Scoring Defense: New Mexico (ECU was 119)

:D Can't go wrong with either of those choices.

steelerfan
05-08-2011, 07:22 PM
Total Defense: ECU (New Mexico was 119)
Scoring Defense: New Mexico (ECU was 119)

:D Can't go wrong with either of those choices.

Hmm, this may take some research, lol. I'd assume UNM's Strength of Schedule was lower.

souljahbill
05-08-2011, 07:22 PM
Meh...So Miss finished 2010 ranked 47th in total defense. If you really want to see a bad defense in action you'll take a look at my 103rd ranked Houston Coogs. ;)

These are the scores of our losses:

41-13 South Carolina
44-43 East Carolina
50-49 UAB
56-50 Tulsa
31-28 Louisville

We also gave up 41 to Houston (fortunately, we scored 59) and 30 to Tulane (we scored 46)

We got lit up like a Christmas tree last year.

JeffHCross
05-08-2011, 08:10 PM
Hmm, this may take some research, lol. I'd assume UNM's Strength of Schedule was lower.Football Outsiders has a totally different way of ranking defense, and this is what they have for the bottom 5: Rice, East Carolina, New Mexico State, Washington State, Eastern Michigan

coogrfan
05-08-2011, 09:35 PM
These are the scores of our losses:

41-13 South Carolina
44-43 East Carolina
50-49 UAB
56-50 Tulsa
31-28 Louisville

We also gave up 41 to Houston (fortunately, we scored 59) and 30 to Tulane (we scored 46)

We got lit up like a Christmas tree last year.

So Miss -- 29.5 pts allowed per game
Houston -- 32.2 pts allowed per game

:sick:

souljahbill
05-08-2011, 09:55 PM
So Miss -- 29.5 pts allowed per game
Houston -- 32.2 pts allowed per game

:sick:

I second that. :sick:
C-USA is definitely an offensive league.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JeffHCross
05-08-2011, 09:55 PM
So Miss -- 29.5 pts allowed per game
Houston -- 32.2 pts allowed per game
New Mexico, 44.33

:sick: :sick: :sick:

psusnoop
05-10-2011, 12:01 PM
New Mexico, 44.33

:sick: :sick: :sick:

So your saying we could get a group of 11 guys from here and put up some points. Nice to know....

Jaredlib
05-10-2011, 01:28 PM
100% agreed. From this entire video I can clearly see that the defender backpedals and strafes faster than the offensive guy running his route which is unrealistic, dumb, and arcade football tactics. The speed of your offensive weapons will be negated it seems thanks to the highly unrealistic speed of both backpedaling and strafing.

Also something else caught my eye, at the start of the video the defender in the flat instantly jumps the flat route as soon as the QB starts his throwing motion seems like they amped up play recognition very high.


In fairness to the devs, it seems like this is a necessary evil considering how exploitable the flat routes could be in NCAA 11

CLW
05-10-2011, 01:36 PM
Or.. just check out Alabama @ Duke for Exhibit A on how bad defense is supposed to look. :smh:

psusnoop
05-10-2011, 01:49 PM
Or.. just check out Alabama @ Duke for Exhibit A on how bad defense is supposed to look. :smh:

:nod: sorry CLW