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View Full Version : 25 New Plays Coming to NCAA Football 12 (Offense)



JBHuskers
03-14-2011, 12:13 PM
In addition to the first screenshot for NCAA Football 12, the EA SPORTS NCAA Football Facebook Page (http://www.facebook.com/#!/easportsncaafootball) has released the first of 25 new plays that are coming to NCAA Football 12.

Over the next five weeks, new offensive plays will be posted on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. New defensive plays will be posted on Tuesday and Thursday.


http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/ncaa12d.jpg

OFFENSE:

Pistol Full House HB Off Tackle (Play Art (http://www.thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/Pistol%20Full%20House%20HB%20Off%20Tackle.jpg)) – The Pistol Full House, aka the Diamond formation, was first unveiled last season by Oklahoma State and was later adopted by other teams across the country. A staple play of the three back pistol set is the HB Off Tackle play.

Shotgun Spread Flex Wk Y-Stick (Play Art (http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/ShotgunSpreadFlexWkYStick.png)) - Another spin on a staple play of the Air Raid offense that’s used by Houston, as well as others. Shotgun Spread Flex Wk Y Stick calls for the halfback to motion out of the backfield to the right. This motion puts him in a spot that allows the Y-Stick concept to develop.

Weak I Normal Y Over Fly Sweep (Play Art (http://www.thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/25NewPlays/20110318-Weak%20I%20-%20Y%20Over%20Fly%20Sweep.jpg)) – Oregon State’s Weak I Normal Fly Sweep has the TE aligned on the line of scrimmage to the split end side of the formation. This creates an unbalanced set to the left with extra blockers for the fly sweep

Shotgun Twin TE Slot PA Slide (Play Art (http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s159/jbennett98/ShotgunTwinTESlotPASlide.jpg)) – This is a play action boot pass that has two deep crossing receivers and one receiver, usually a TE, who slides under the line of scrimmage and in the flat. Oregon likes to use this play once they get near their opponent’s red zone. They’re usually successful at getting the ball to one of the crossing receivers for a big play.

Pistol Spread RNS Switch Smash (Play Art (http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/25NewPlays/20110323-Pistol%20Spread%20RNSSwitchSmash.png)) – Hawaii’s run and shoot offense can now be run from the Pistol formation. The traditional staples such as RNS Switch Smash can now be found in the new Pistol Spread formation. Hawaii and SMU’s playbook also features the run and shoot version of Pistol 4WR Trips.

Pistol Train Triple Option (Play Art (http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/25NewPlays/20110325%20-%20Pistol%20Train%20Triple%20Option.jpg)) - Primarily used as a short yardage power set from the Pistol, the Train formation as it’s called by Nevada gives the offensive a variety of ways to attack the defense in short yardage situations. The Triple Option play is one such play that can be used to attack the defense.

Shotgun Wild Tiger Trey Fight Song (Play Art (http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/25NewPlays/20110328-Shotgun%20Wild%20Tiger%20Trey%20Fight%20Song.jpg)) – Auburn’s offense features a wide variety of unique and imaginative plays. One of the more interesting plays in their offense is Shotgun Wild Tiger Trey Fight Song. In this play the left tackle aligns on the ball on the right side of the formation in a receiver position. The left tackle is used as a decoy to throw off the defensive recognition of the play.

I-Form Twin TE Badger Power (Play Art (http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/25NewPlays/20110330%20-%20I-FormTwinTEBadgerPower.jpg)) – A staple of the Wisconsin power running game, I-Form Twin TE Badger Power is a play that combines elements of both a counter and power play. The Badgers like to send the wing tight end in motion to the weak side and at the snap he becomes the second “puller” on the play. Factor in the fullback and Wisconsin can get three lead blockers at the point of attack.

Shotgun Trio HB Wk PA Husker Y Post (Play Art (http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/25NewPlays/20110401%20-%20Shotgun%20Trio%20HB%20Wk%20PA%20Husker%20Y%20Po st.png)) – Nebraska’s offense is known for generating big plays in the running game. To compliment their explosive rushing attack the Huskers will often use play action passes. Shotgun Trio HB Wk PA Husker Y Post is a play Nebraska uses with great success for getting the ball deep down the field to their tight end for a touchdown.

Shotgun Normal Flex Ark HB Wheel (Play Art (http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/25NewPlays/20110404%20-%20Shotgun%20Normal%20Flex%20Ark%20HB%20Wheel.jpg) ) – Shotgun Normal Flex Ark HB Wheel should be a familiar play to the fans of Arkansas. This is the same play the Hogs used to score a touchdown on the third play of the game against Alabama last season. The concept known as “Shark” in the Arkansas terminology uses a shallow cross/dig combination in the middle of the field and a post/wheel combination on the outside.

Shotgun Wing Trips Wk Tiger Buck Sweep (Play Art (http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/25NewPlays/20110406%20-%20Shotgun%20Wing%20Trips%20Wk%20Tiger%20Buck%20Sw eep.jpg)) – Clemson’s new no-huddle shotgun based offense will strive for balance with the run and pass. A staple run play of the Tigers’ new offense figures to be Shotgun Wing Trips WK Tiger Buck Sweep. The play is an off shoot of the Wing-T Buck Sweep in which both guards pull and lead block for the ball carrier.

I-Form Twins UK Fade Smash (Play Art (http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/25NewPlays/20110408%20-%20I-Form%20Twins%20UK%20Fade%20Smash.jpg)) – I-Form Twins UK Fade Smash is a unique way that Kentucky likes to run the smash concept. In the traditional smash concept the slot receiver runs a corner route. The Wildcats like to use a fade route which gets the slot receiver near the same deep area of the field as if he were running a corner route.

Ace Big Twins Weak Flood (Play Art (http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5270/5609478345_aab19e08a2_z.jpg)) – A three tiered flood concept, Ace Big Twins Weak Food can be used to attack a variety of defensive coverages. The post route is the first read in the progression and if open the ball should be thrown there. The deep out route by the slot receiver combined with the shallow cross route of the tight end creates a hi/lo vertical stretch on the defense.

Shotgun Trips Unbalanced Mizzou Jet (Play Art (http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/25NewPlays/20110413%20-%20Shotgun%20Trips%20Unbalanced%20Mizzou%20Jet.jpg )) - Shotgun Trips Unbalanced Mizzou Jet is a new addition to the Tigers high flying spread offense. The formation calls for the tight end to align on the line of scrimmage and places the split end on the left off the line of scrimmage. With three spread receivers combined with the halfback in the backfield, Missouri can get four blockers at the point of attack on the jet sweep.

NEW! Shotgun Quads Trio Slot Pivot (Play Art (http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/25NewPlays/20110415%20-%20Shotgun%20Quads%20Trio%20Slot%20Pivot.jpg)) – Shotgun Quads Trio Slot Pivot is a play that’s designed to put a horizontal stretch in the underneath coverage of zone defenses. The inside receiver closest to the formation runs a shallow cross while the next receiver to his right runs a pivot route. Those two routes going in opposite directions creates a natural void in zones for the dig route that’s ran by the next receiver over in the formation.

HawkFan
03-14-2011, 12:17 PM
I actually like the design of this play a lot. I use the Nevada playbook in one of my dynasties and while it can be a very good rushing playbook it has very limited types of rushing plays. Not sure you really need a certain type of team to run this play, I mean having a good fullback and a decent backup tailback and it should work fine,

I am very interested in seeing what else they reveal as far as plays go. This is a good start though in my mind.

Solidice
03-14-2011, 12:29 PM
I like the formation. I hope custom formation is in so I could use this formation without having the settle on another team's book.

morsdraconis
03-14-2011, 12:51 PM
Meh. The blocking is so piss poor, that play will never work. You'd have to have a superhuman offensive line to be able to block that play long enough for the back to get clear across the formation.

CLW
03-14-2011, 01:02 PM
Meh. The blocking is so piss poor, that play will never work. You'd have to have a superhuman offensive line to be able to block that play long enough for the back to get clear across the formation.

That's a good point. I like that EA continues to add real life plays/formations. Of course, it doesn't matter if they plays will not work due to how the game plays.

HawkFan
03-14-2011, 02:00 PM
I have been using modified AA sliders from the TGT 360 dynasty for my dynasty with Duke. And I have had nothing over a B- offense and have led the country in rushing once, been 5th twice and top 25 the other two years. I do not have superhuman offensive lines, halfbacks, fullbacks or any position and I can move the ball. Guess it could be different styles of play. What level are you guys playing on?

ryby6969
03-14-2011, 03:21 PM
Meh. The blocking is so piss poor, that play will never work. You'd have to have a superhuman offensive line to be able to block that play long enough for the back to get clear across the formation.

Yeah, if you go against a team with a semi competent D-line this will be blown up in the backfield every time.

HawkFan
03-14-2011, 03:24 PM
Yeah, if you go against a team with a semi competent D-line this will be blown up in the backfield every time.

I'm not so sure about that. I mean I have run flexbone before and ran the wb sweep, and the other wb quick hitter to the outside (can't remember the name right now) that are very similar to this play and they all work pretty well and while not consistently, pretty well, If this play works anything like those two examples I am going to be more than pleased with it.

ryby6969
03-14-2011, 03:30 PM
I'm not so sure about that. I mean I have run flexbone before and ran the wb sweep, and the other wb quick hitter to the outside (can't remember the name right now) that are very similar to this play and they all work pretty well and while not consistently, pretty well, If this play works anything like those two examples I am going to be more than pleased with it.

That is assuming the backs pick up the guys on the outside that they are supposed to. The only way it will work consistently is if they have sped up the hand off animation.

HawkFan
03-14-2011, 03:50 PM
That is assuming the backs pick up the guys on the outside that they are supposed to. The only way it will work consistently is if they have sped up the hand off animation.

I agree with that if it's a standard turn and hand off it's going to be a little inconsistent, but if it's like the flexbone plays I mentioned it should be fine. Because in those plays the quarterback takes the handoff and turns to immediately hand the ball to the carrier. Agree with you that the back have to pick up the outside blocks but it's possible. Just trying to say to look at play art and write it off right away seems a little premature to me. But then again either of us could be right about it or wrong about it.

xRomo9
03-14-2011, 03:58 PM
Nice, I hope the AI blocking is better like others have stated. It starts and ends there before anything else can happen.

whitepony99
03-14-2011, 04:31 PM
I'm still voting for create a playbook with custom plays, I would love to create my own plays.

HawkFan
03-14-2011, 04:40 PM
I'm still voting for create a playbook with custom plays, I would love to create my own plays.

This +1000, I would love create a play and custom playbooks. But if I had to pick one or the other I would pick custom playbooks before custom plays.

morsdraconis
03-14-2011, 05:14 PM
I agree with that if it's a standard turn and hand off it's going to be a little inconsistent, but if it's like the flexbone plays I mentioned it should be fine. Because in those plays the quarterback takes the handoff and turns to immediately hand the ball to the carrier. Agree with you that the back have to pick up the outside blocks but it's possible. Just trying to say to look at play art and write it off right away seems a little premature to me. But then again either of us could be right about it or wrong about it.

I'm not being premature at all. Try to run any HB Counter play out of any Shotgun formation and you will see what I mean. The blocking is atrocious in the trenches. Until they actually fix the game where players block with leverage (and thus get pushed around with leverage as well) this game will be nothing more than an arcade version of NCAA football where you find the plays that work and then abuse the hell out of them over and over again.

gschwendt
03-14-2011, 05:21 PM
I'm not being premature at all. Try to run any HB Counter play out of any Shotgun formation and you will see what I mean. The blocking is atrocious in the trenches. Until they actually fix the game where players block with leverage (and thus get pushed around with leverage as well) this game will be nothing more than an arcade version of NCAA football where you find the plays that work and then abuse the hell out of them over and over again.
Actually, so long as you have two backside blockers in a Shotgun HB Counter, you'll have above average success. For example, run it out of Shotgun - Ace Big or even run it out of Shotgun - Slot and motion the WR and snap it as he is on the OT's back hip.

HawkFan
03-14-2011, 05:36 PM
Actually, so long as you have two backside blockers in a Shotgun HB Counter, you'll have above average success. For example, run it out of Shotgun - Ace Big or even run it out of Shotgun - Slot and motion the WR and snap it as he is on the OT's back hip.

Thank you. Could not agree with this more. In my opinion and that is all it is, you have to be creative like a real football coach is when making some of these plays work. You can use motion and such to help a little. Think about it this way. There is no play in college football that works all the time , every play gets stuffed or fails to work at some point, and some of them do not work at all most of the time, depending on your talent and that of your opponent. I am not talking about being cheesy with it, and finding those five plays that work all the time and abusing them. I wish the game would send you a breakdown of your play calling with percentages of which plays you run and how often you run them, I doubt I would have a play over 10% for the season, I try every play, and not just once, I try them multiple times.

I have met people that say the end around never works and it's a piece of garbage on the game and I have personally used it for four or five touchdowns and probably average over 7 yards a carry with it. Does it get blown up in the backfield from time to time? Sure. Does it get me 2 or 3 yards sometimes. But then others it pops for a 45 yard touchdown.

I think this play will be like that. Like I said, I could very well be wrong, but then again I could very well be right.

onikuno
03-14-2011, 06:10 PM
BOOMER SOONER! OU perfected this formation late last year.

Details
03-14-2011, 06:26 PM
I'm thrilled with the addition of new plays (Madden is due for the same), but it emphasizes the necessity of custom playbooks.

morsdraconis
03-14-2011, 07:01 PM
Actually, so long as you have two backside blockers in a Shotgun HB Counter, you'll have above average success. For example, run it out of Shotgun - Ace Big or even run it out of Shotgun - Slot and motion the WR and snap it as he is on the OT's back hip.

How does any of that prevent the DT from blowing right up the middle in the wide open lane that's created by the pulling guard and getting to the hand off point sometimes before the QB even hands it off?

The only reason why it MIGHT work is if you're playing against someone that actually adjusts their defensive line out of the default setup. Against the computer, that play will NEVER work like it's supposed to.

Kwizzy
03-14-2011, 07:24 PM
How does any of that prevent the DT from blowing right up the middle in the wide open lane that's created by the pulling guard and getting to the hand off point sometimes before the QB even hands it off?

The only reason why it MIGHT work is if you're playing against someone that actually adjusts their defensive line out of the default setup. Against the computer, that play will NEVER work like it's supposed to.

I do tend to semi-agree with you on the blocking, it still needs a great deal of work. I did think last year was a HUGE step in the right direction. I'd like to see more fine-tuning from this point on: make sure the right blocker is coming off the double to get to the second level depending on the play called, make sure blockers aren't indecisive or leaving blocks on Dlineman to get to linebackers when no one else is picking up the Dlineman, etc...

I do like that EA tries to continuously add new plays each year however I would like to see the plays that are currently in the game but don't quite work right get some more attention as well. Most notably WR jailbreak and bubble screens, Play action passes, QB Wraps and Zone Reads to name a few all need a bit of tweaking.

gschwendt
03-14-2011, 07:24 PM
How does any of that prevent the DT from blowing right up the middle in the wide open lane that's created by the pulling guard and getting to the hand off point sometimes before the QB even hands it off?

The only reason why it MIGHT work is if you're playing against someone that actually adjusts their defensive line out of the default setup. Against the computer, that play will NEVER work like it's supposed to.Seriously... just give it a try. I have success against both the CPU & HUM opponents. I haven't dissected it enough to say what happens after the ball snaps.

gschwendt
03-14-2011, 07:33 PM
Seriously... just give it a try. I have success against both the CPU & HUM opponents. I haven't dissected it enough to say what happens after the ball snaps.
I'll try to put together a video of a few different variations of it to give you an idea of what I'm talking about (since I think you said you sold the game).

JeffHCross
03-14-2011, 07:34 PM
Over the next five weeks, new offensive plays will be posted on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. New defensive plays will be posted on Tuesday and Thursday.Well, I'm fairly confident that I'll be obsessively checking on Tuesday and Thursday, and just having low-level interest on MWF.

(since I think you said you sold the game).Saying that after quoting yourself: #winning

jaymo76
03-14-2011, 07:56 PM
Fingers crossed for custom playbooks. It may be a good chance considering that EA is stressing 25 new plays, one play per day. Perhaps they are showing off some of the plays we have to choose from????:nod:

Jayrah
03-14-2011, 08:39 PM
How does any of that prevent the DT from blowing right up the middle in the wide open lane that's created by the pulling guard and getting to the hand off point sometimes before the QB even hands it off?

The only reason why it MIGHT work is if you're playing against someone that actually adjusts their defensive line out of the default setup. Against the computer, that play will NEVER work like it's supposed to.

what pulling guard??? I don't see one.

In my TF league, I have (for the first time) the #1 rushing attack in the country in year 5 week 8 with Texas A&M. I use a variety of shotgun reads, counters, wildcat plays, sweeps, dives, off guard, etc. I use it all, out of the pitt pb, and I am not one to go back to a play a million times "until they stop it"....which would constitute "cheese" in my mind because of the way the game is set up. This new play looks alot like a power left, or the popular fly sweep, just out of the pistol instead of wing t. I would be shocked if this play DOESN'T work the way it's meant to. There is no pulling concept, just a lead sweep.

Very excited to see these new plays implemented, especially the defensive ones. I am hoping for improved blocking concepts as well. But I honestly don't want to say "better" blocking. I think the blocking is very well done in this years game. It can always be better conceptually, but the defense needs to be able to stop you too.

steelerfan
03-14-2011, 09:02 PM
Well, I'm fairly confident that I'll be obsessively checking on Tuesday and Thursday

Wow, it took till this evening for anyone to reference the fact that EA is definitely adding new defensive plays.

And Kwizzy, I agree with you on the blocking on those various screens. It seems like you and I have discussed that before.

morsdraconis
03-14-2011, 09:06 PM
There is a pulling guard in the HB Counter play out of Shotgun (my analogous to the play shown) not the Power Sweep play that they are showing us. And I do agree, it very much does look like a Flexbone play (like Power Sweep), but, the issue is, those plays have the HB very close to the QB when the ball is hiked, not 2 yards to the right of him.



I do still have the game (though I'm sending it out to Amazon for trade in monies tomorrow because I'm just done playing football until MAYBE 12) and I tried it and while, yes, in theory, it will work and does occasionally work, you have to be playing someone that doesn't have a good defense or using sliders that are nice to Shotgun running (aka why run out of shotgun when you can pound it down their throats normally all over the place?) for it to work well.

There's a reason counter plays don't work, and it's simple: the defense doesn't flow to the play, at all (unless they are utterly TERRIBLE, then they might flow to the play). The defense doesn't READ the play. They do four different things: blitz, follow their man, watch the QB, or play their zone. That's why PA doesn't work in the game (unless it's against a human to get them to overcommit with the one player they are controlling) and that's why counters don't work like they're supposed to. When LBs don't hesitate at all when you do a PA play, what's the point of doing the PA to begin with? When LBs don't take two steps in the faked direction of the counter, what's the point of running the counter?

Counters are only run right now because outside running in the game is ridiculously difficult to stop without committing to it so much that the inside run is wide open as well as passing lanes being ginormously wide open because you have to actually blitz players to get them to play their assignments correctly (again, because they don't read run/pass at all).

Pig Bomb
03-14-2011, 11:15 PM
I had great success running out of Pistol last year...I would be pumped to see this in 2012!

Jayrah
03-15-2011, 02:53 AM
I don't want to argue your point Mors, mostly because I felt the same way 3 months ago, but now with more time I honestly don't see what you're talking about evident in this game. I've finally found that the key to this game is "setting up" your plays, with other plays. Not the game's view of "setting up", but actually running 4 and 5 and 6 times to set up a play action, or throwing 3 or 4 times to set up a draw. Also running inside for a while before busting a counter play WILL get the defense flowing to a side. I see it time and time again. Patience is the key though. I'll have a half of getting stuffed over and over again, and then in the second half come out and bust one right up the middle, then a counter, and then a sweep. And then the defense comes up, and I don't even need PA to get a nice play in the passing game.

Like I said though, I've seen what you're talking about, but if you're patient those issues are eliminated. I do have an issue with the blocking though..... Screens (at least a one count needs to be held by the line), and PA (there is almost always a free rusher right up the middle due to a whiffed block on PA, and it drives me NUTS!).

Want to see DEFENSE! There will be 10 NEW defensive plays they say. I would also like to hear that coverage is worked on and general defensive awareness and READ abilities and tendencies have been addressed (that one I do agree on MORS!!!! :))

JBHuskers
03-15-2011, 08:30 AM
Counter plays definitely work....I've had a ton of success out of the Pistol with it.

HawkFan
03-15-2011, 09:22 AM
Couple of things. Counters definitely work. I can not say that I have a lot of success out of the shotgun running counter plays but the other counters out of the formations with the quarterback under center work really well, sometimes borderline too well.

Jayrah you are completely right and thank you for stating it better than ever could. For me anyway it's all about patience and setting things up. I too have had whole halves where I am getting stuffed over and over again with my longest run being around 5 yards. You just have to stick with it and keep pounding away at it and all of the sudden you will bust a run and you can see the tide start to turn.

PA passes are completely different. I agree with you that there seems to be a free guy most of the time because of a whiffed block, but then again if I am playing a defense and see that they are not blitzing the house on me to stop the run and dropping back into coverage instead they can be really effective. I wish I could post some of the plays I have had where I ran play action and been able to cut the defense apart with it. (Anyone who can help me with that would be very helpful) All I can say about offense and the things we are talking about in 11 is set up your plays and good things will come your way.

Onto the new defensive play that was released. I like the idea of it, and it seems that you are going to be able to cover a lot of the field with it. But we all know that there are holes in any zone that if you can be patient and read it that you can exploit. Which is fine because that happens in the college game every Saturday. The thing I find most frustrating and I know it's partly due to my players ratings is that at times they will completely blow off their responsibilities and do something totally different leaving guys wide open. And it would not be so bad if it ever happened to the cpu, but it does not seem whoever I play that they ever have a breakdown.

I am really hoping for an overhaul of defense in next years game so I can avoid, 45-42 shootouts most of the time, and that maybe I can have a chance to have a defense ranked in the top 25 once again.

JBHuskers
03-15-2011, 09:28 AM
PA is broken on 11, simple as that. I quit using it.

Cover 6 is a very nice addition to the defensive playbook for sure!

cdj
03-16-2011, 08:41 AM
http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/ShotgunSpreadFlexWkYStick.png

Shotgun Spread Flex Wk Y-Stick - Another spin on a staple play of the Air Raid offense that’s used by Houston, as well as others. Shotgun Spread Flex Wk Y Stick calls for the halfback to motion out of the backfield to the right. This motion puts him in a spot that allows the Y-Stick concept to develop.

JBHuskers
03-16-2011, 09:11 AM
LOVE this play. Has everything, an out, a slant, a curl, a streak, and a flat.

morsdraconis
03-16-2011, 09:48 AM
But do they have a complimentary play for it? That's the trouble with automotion like that, it's a HUGE tipoff to what the play is; especially because they don't make the player take the same route that they would take when you just put them in motion to that side.

That's what everything was screaming about the Flexbone formation after '10. The automotion was an immediate tipoff to what direction the play was going (and, unfortunately, still is in most formations because the opposite direction plays are blocked so damn poorly).

Then, of course, there's the fact that that play could be completely created with hotroutes so what's the point of taking up a playbook slot with a play that's easily created with hotroutes (and the HB flat doesn't require the automotion in the hotroute setup of the play)?

Kwizzy
03-16-2011, 10:11 AM
I agree on the auto motion issues Mors. I do think they need to do a better job of incorporating these auto motions into other plays where they aren't necessary but wouldn't affect what the goal of that play will be. That way it isn't such a dead give away when that play is run. Like the concept of the play though.

CLW
03-16-2011, 10:12 AM
That stick play is going to be $ especially when on a hash. Example, if you are on the left hash simply hot route :x: to a hook. If it's man the RB most likely is going to outrun the LB out in the flat for a huge gain. If not you still have the slant/streak routes as backups. If itz zone the hooks will likely be open or the slant if timed properly.

Solidice
03-16-2011, 10:15 AM
so that formation will now have a H stick and a Y stick play. I wonder if they did that with other formations as well.

xMrHitStickx904
03-16-2011, 02:05 PM
with the Y Stick play, I love it. Now, if I can get the same look with a screen, and a QB Draw, that's gonna be dangerous for my offense. I look forward to expanding the no-huddle spread from 11. I averaged about 200 + running and about 150 passing, so this play fits perfectly.

whitepony99
03-16-2011, 02:40 PM
There is a y stick play in NCAA 11 in Middle Tennesee State playbook just no auto motion, which I hate anyways. I usually hot route the rb to block when I see him in auto motion.

What about?????????? Auto motion from one back shotgun to 2 back shotgun then you can base zone reads and dives off of it. I got a few good plays that we teach our kids at the high school level that I would love to see in the college game.

As a matter of fact I got 10 variations off of that one formation.

HawkFan
03-16-2011, 02:50 PM
But do they have a complimentary play for it? That's the trouble with automotion like that, it's a HUGE tipoff to what the play is; especially because they don't make the player take the same route that they would take when you just put them in motion to that side.

That's what everything was screaming about the Flexbone formation after '10. The automotion was an immediate tipoff to what direction the play was going (and, unfortunately, still is in most formations because the opposite direction plays are blocked so damn poorly).

Then, of course, there's the fact that that play could be completely created with hotroutes so what's the point of taking up a playbook slot with a play that's easily created with hotroutes (and the HB flat doesn't require the automotion in the hotroute setup of the play)?


Holy cow stop the presses I agree with Mors about a play in the new play thread. :)

The play itself seems to me to be one of those plays that is going to be money against the CPU as I believe JB said it has everything. The automotion though is going to make it a give away against a human that has played the game a lot and knows what plays are in what formations. Though tipping off of this play is going to be a lot harder to defend then the flexbone was back two years ago when the motion almost always gave you the play direction. Because although you know that this play or one similar is coming it's a lot harder to stop a play with five options than one with two options that being a run to one side of the field or possibly a fullback dive.

Now for the agreeing with Mors, While I do not care strongly one way or the other about auto motion I do agree with the fact that if you are going to have plays with auto motion in them each playbook with an auto motion play in it should have a minimum of three plays in that set with the same auto motion to give the player a better chance of hiding their intentions and to give the other player or CPU for that fact somewhat of a decision to make. Not the standard decision they have now of "Oh yeah, here comes such and such a play." And maybe we will see they have added stuff like that in the playbooks this year, I mean they would not have to be new plays. They could be the same plays as last year just with auto motion added to them.

So far I like all three plays and could see myself running them all. I love the fact they are putting stuff out there like this.

steelerfan
03-16-2011, 03:04 PM
I'm not ready to say anything will be $. In 11, maybe this play would be, in 12 who knows? We're all clamouring for defensive improvements. To call a play $ at this stage is to say there won't be defensive improvements. I'm certainly not ready to say that.

I like to look at the plays individually and appreciate them as small additions to the game. To say "this play won't work" or "that play will be unstoppable" comes from our view of 11. This is 12, until I have a retail copy in my hands that tells the whole story, I think it's narrow-minded to assume it will play like NCAA 11.

HawkFan
03-16-2011, 03:15 PM
I did say, seems to be a play that will be money against the cpu. Trust me I want vast defensive improvements over everything this year. I like this years game but I would never stop playing it if the cpu or yourself could play defense and have a 14-13 game sometimes instead of having 42-38 shoot outs all the time.

steelerfan
03-16-2011, 03:24 PM
I did say, seems to be a play that will be money against the cpu. Trust me I want vast defensive improvements over everything this year. I like this years game but I would never stop playing it if the cpu or yourself could play defense and have a 14-13 game sometimes instead of having 42-38 shoot outs all the time.

I wasn't singling anyone out, you just happened to be the last to post before me. You're right, "seems" and "CPU" were a part of what you said, I'm just adding "NCAA 11" to that and saying I won't judge whether these plays will work on 12. I don't have all the facts, or the finished product in hand to make those types of assessments.

HawkFan
03-16-2011, 03:33 PM
I wasn't singling anyone out, you just happened to be the last to post before me. You're right, "seems" and "CPU" were a part of what you said, I'm just adding "NCAA 11" to that and saying I won't judge whether these plays will work on 12. I don't have all the facts, or the finished product in hand to make those types of assessments.

You are right and either do I. Hey at least we have some info coming out that is more than dreadlocks and equipment. LOL

steelerfan
03-16-2011, 04:10 PM
Hey at least we have some info coming out that is more than dreadlocks and equipment.

:nod:

Agreed, buddy.

CLW
03-16-2011, 04:20 PM
You are right and either do I. Hey at least we have some info coming out that is more than dreadlocks and equipment. LOL


:nod:

Agreed, buddy.


SHAME on you both. Dreads are single handidly going to make NCAA 12 the GREATEST video game of all-time.

steelerfan
03-16-2011, 04:32 PM
SHAME on you both. Dreads are single handidly going to make NCAA 12 the GREATEST video game of all-time.

The vocal minority needs a new poster boy. They rode the dreads train as far as they could. :D

HawkFan
03-16-2011, 05:02 PM
So now that dreads are in what's the new thing people are going to be clamoring for? Hmmm maybe I will go to the bowl patches thread and rile some people up. :D

Jayrah
03-16-2011, 05:27 PM
So now that dreads are in what's the new thing people are going to be clamoring for? Hmmm maybe I will go to the bowl patches thread and rile some people up. :D

Mouthpieces.....

HawkFan
03-16-2011, 05:28 PM
Mouthpieces.....

Nice, very nice.

steelerfan
03-16-2011, 05:40 PM
So now that dreads are in what's the new thing people are going to be clamoring for? Hmmm maybe I will go to the bowl patches thread and rile some people up. :D

Tattoos? Eye black with various Area Codes and scripture references? Oh wait, that's outlawed. Faux gold teeth? Smeared eye black that covers the whole cheek? Man, the list is endless. Those poor bastards will never buy the game.

AustinWolv
03-16-2011, 06:04 PM
So now that dreads are in what's the new thing people are going to be clamoring for? Hmmm maybe I will go to the bowl patches thread and rile some people up. :D
ROFL

JeffHCross
03-16-2011, 06:50 PM
So now that dreads are in what's the new thing people are going to be clamoring for? Hmmm maybe I will go to the bowl patches thread and rile some people up. :DYep. Bowl patches and mouthpieces.

baseballplyrmvp
03-16-2011, 07:59 PM
Yep. Bowl patches and mouthpieces.

dont forget the broadcast camera angle :rolleyes:

morsdraconis
03-16-2011, 08:30 PM
The thread title needs (Offense) in it to avoid confusion since the defensive one is named as such.

cdj
03-16-2011, 09:22 PM
The thread title needs (Offense) in it to avoid confusion since the defensive one is named as such.

I see (Offense) on it or am I not looking in the right place?

morsdraconis
03-16-2011, 10:36 PM
Weird... For some reason, it wasn't there when I posted that. It's definitely there now.

gschwendt
03-16-2011, 10:38 PM
Weird... For some reason, it wasn't there when I posted that. It's definitely there now.
Heh... I fixed it in between your request and cdj's post.

morsdraconis
03-16-2011, 10:38 PM
Heh... I fixed it in between your request and cdj's post.

:D

Damn it G! Making me look crazy...

JeffHCross
03-16-2011, 10:48 PM
:D

Damn it G! Making me look crazy...I think he should have let you think it for a while longer.

morsdraconis
03-17-2011, 08:20 AM
I think he should have let you think it for a while longer.

:D

If anything, I thought it was my browser cache acting up (even though I have Firefox set to nothing in the cache to specifically prevent things like that from happening).

Flav
03-18-2011, 09:22 AM
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/189826_10150121676632280_90440037279_6392694_42017 89_n.jpg

Weak I Normal Y Over Fly Sweep – Oregon State’s Weak I Normal Fly Sweep has the TE aligned on the line of scrimmage to the split end side of the formation. This creates an unbalanced set to the left with extra blockers for the fly sweep.

Kwizzy
03-18-2011, 09:22 AM
Play for today is up but I'm at work so I can't get to facebook (except on my phone)... Play is called Weak I Normal Over Fly Sweep. I'm a little confused if the TE is automotioning before the play & then the WR starts in auto motion or what though....?

JBHuskers
03-18-2011, 09:26 AM
Play for today is up but I'm at work so I can't get to facebook (except on my phone)... Play is called Weak I Normal Over Fly Sweep. I'm a little confused if the TE is automotioning before the play & then the WR starts in auto motion or what though....?

Looks like the TE is floating over to the other side of the line after the snap of the ball.

JBHuskers
03-18-2011, 09:28 AM
I'm curious to see the timing of this play, if the WR doesn't move pre-snap it makes sense to me with that TE crossing over to block.

Kwizzy
03-18-2011, 09:35 AM
I'm curious to see the timing of this play, if the WR doesn't move pre-snap it makes sense to me with that TE crossing over to block.

Yeah exactly, If the WR is in motion before the snap and the TE is pulling after the snap: A) how is he gonna make it over there in time to block someone and B) even if he can make it over there in time, what are the odds all of the other lineman hole their blocks long enough for him to get through there without getting held up.

morsdraconis
03-18-2011, 09:54 AM
Could it be an indication that they are incorporating multiple player movement before the snap?

JBHuskers
03-18-2011, 10:08 AM
Yeah exactly, If the WR is in motion before the snap and the TE is pulling after the snap: A) how is he gonna make it over there in time to block someone and B) even if he can make it over there in time, what are the odds all of the other lineman hole their blocks long enough for him to get through there without getting held up.

IIRC sweeps don't have the ball carrier in motion pre-snap, right?

Kwizzy
03-18-2011, 10:11 AM
IIRC sweeps don't have the ball carrier in motion pre-snap, right?

I thought they did but I could be wrong....

JBHuskers
03-18-2011, 10:19 AM
I thought they did but I could be wrong....

I think in Shotgun they do, in Flexbone they don't. But I think the ball is snapped before the WR gets to the TE....

JBHuskers
03-18-2011, 10:20 AM
Even if the WR out paces the TE to the other side...the TE could take care of the LB that could charge in from behind to make the stop.

steelerfan
03-18-2011, 11:01 AM
I'm guessing from the diagram that the TE is pulling and the FL is automotioned. I'd further guess that the FL doesn't get past the TE pre-snap.

But that doesn't jive with what the play description says...

Solidice
03-18-2011, 11:03 AM
IIRC sweeps don't have the ball carrier in motion pre-snap, right?


doesn't the green line mean pre-snap motion though?

hopefully, there is a linked HB dive play from this, similar to the ACE Big version of this play that I think Houston/Oklahoma State's playbook had in NCAA 11(and probably a few others as well)

JBHuskers
03-18-2011, 11:11 AM
doesn't the green line mean pre-snap motion though?

hopefully, there is a linked HB dive play from this, similar to the ACE Big version of this play that I think Houston/Oklahoma State's playbook had in NCAA 11(and probably a few others as well)

On sweeps I can't recall. I think the WR does start but the ball is snapped before he hits the TE on that side....

There would almost have to be a linked play for that dive.

Kwizzy
03-18-2011, 11:58 AM
On sweeps I can't recall. I think the WR does start but the ball is snapped before he hits the TE on that side....

There would almost have to be a linked play for that dive.

And hopefully a PA pass or two off of it as well... :Sceptical Optimism:

Details
03-18-2011, 03:29 PM
The NCAA series seems to "enjoy" football more than the Madden series.

Could be perception. NCAA actually discusses the game of football. I like the addition of new plays.

JeffHCross
03-18-2011, 09:42 PM
But that doesn't jive with what the play description says...That play description makes no sense, no matter what the actual play does.

steelerfan
03-18-2011, 10:01 PM
That play description makes no sense, no matter what the actual play does.

I know, lol. I read it a few times to make sure I didn't lose a word somewhere. Nope!

I'd like to see this play run against the defensive play they gave us yesterday. :nod:

Jayrah
03-19-2011, 10:41 PM
No no no no no no no no. You guys read and saw it wrong. It makes perfect sense. That line is NOT a motion line by the TE. It's just that they're showing you where a TE would "normally" line up....to where he actually is. There shouldn't be a line there, I agree it is confusing. But I DOUBT HIGHLY that it is motion, just a stupid unnecessary line. OSU never uses motion by the TE in that play. It's just a pre-motion and a quick handoff. I hope they get the timing right, it happens very fast.

gschwendt
03-19-2011, 10:51 PM
I can see it being two different ways based on that playart... either the snap is early in the WRs jet motion and thus the TE clears out ahead of the WR or instead the TE shifts over to the other side before the WR starts his motion. I'll be curious to see how well it works and hopefully it has a play that plays off of it to present the same look.

Jayrah
03-21-2011, 12:51 AM
I can see it being two different ways based on that playart... either the snap is early in the WRs jet motion and thus the TE clears out ahead of the WR or instead the TE shifts over to the other side before the WR starts his motion. I'll be curious to see how well it works and hopefully it has a play that plays off of it to present the same look.

A pre...pre shift would be cool, but I still think it's just a line showing the TE from a normal look in that formation to where he IS. If it IS a double motion, I hope that's an option to do in any play. Because double motions are very often used in college football.

JBHuskers
03-21-2011, 08:33 AM
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s159/jbennett98/ShotgunTwinTESlotPASlide.jpg

Shotgun Twin TE Slot PA Slide – This is a play action boot pass that has two deep crossing receivers and one receiver, usually a TE, who slides under the line of scrimmage and in the flat. Oregon likes to use this play once they get near their opponent’s red zone. They’re usually successful at getting the ball to one of the crossing receivers for a big play.

morsdraconis
03-21-2011, 08:39 AM
Ack... These types of plays are so bad... Again, comes down to the fact that the defense almost NEVER falls for the fake, so, again, what's the point of using PA to begin with?

steelerfan
03-21-2011, 08:40 AM
As is a common theme in this thread, the play will be most welcomed (due mostly to the auto-motion) if there is a complimentary run play. Looks good, without knowing if there's a run off of this.

JBHuskers
03-21-2011, 08:42 AM
As is a common theme in this thread, the play will be most welcomed (due mostly to the auto-motion) if there is a complimentary run play. Looks good, without knowing if there's a run off of this.

Yeah I'm liking this play....the run off is probably a HB Sprint or something to that effect.

gschwendt
03-21-2011, 08:44 AM
Ack... These types of plays are so bad... Again, comes down to the fact that the defense almost NEVER falls for the fake, so, again, what's the point of using PA to begin with?
Yeah, but as bad as the Playaction fake was in NCAA11, I imagine they'll make sure that it's at least improved.

baseballplyrmvp
03-21-2011, 08:47 AM
this doesnt feel like a new play. is there a play similar to this, only with a flanker wr running a comeback route instead of the second te?

steelerfan
03-21-2011, 08:48 AM
Yeah, but as bad as the Playaction fake was in NCAA11, I imagine they'll make sure that it's at least improved.

In addition, I've had success, even in 11, with PA Boots. So, I'm optimistic for this play regardless.

steelerfan
03-21-2011, 08:50 AM
this doesnt feel like a new play. is there a play similar to this, only with a flanker wr running a comeback route instead of the second te?

I'm not certain there is, but doesn't different personnel (not to mention different route combinations) automatically make it a new play? ;)

baseballplyrmvp
03-21-2011, 08:56 AM
I'm not certain there is, but doesn't different personnel (not to mention different route combinations) automatically make it a new play? ;)technically yes. but it just seems like i've seen 90% of this play before, as its only swapping out a wr for the motioned te. other than that, the 2 receivers on the one side run the exact same routes. oh well. i'll never use it, so why bitch about it?

morsdraconis
03-21-2011, 09:07 AM
technically yes. but it just seems like i've seen 90% of this play before, as its only swapping out a wr for the motioned te. other than that, the 2 receivers on the one side run the exact same routes. oh well. i'll never use it, so why bitch about it?

It's exactly the same as the Shotgun Wing TE setup that Florida, Mississippi State, and someone else use where the TE that's lined up like that goes in motion for the two plays that they have for that (some shitty run and a PA pass that's asking to get killed). It's basically the exact same setup (TE leaks back across the formation and the WR on the weak side runs the crossing route with the WR on the strong side runs a comeback route or something).

But, it is technically a new play because that formation (Shotgun Twin TE) hasn't had that type of play action setup yet with the TE in motion.

My issue with it all is this: Give me more than two freakin' plays that look like that. No team is only going to run two plays that have that type of motion. Incorporate it into a BUNCH of the plays from that formation: HB Pitch to the strong side, HB counter to the strong side (so that the TE can motion and come back across and block with the LG pulling out for the block as well), some type of passing play to take advantage of that TE being against a LB in the flats without there being any PA, HB Pitch to the weak side with the motioned TE "lead" blocking, etc. Just give me more than TWO plays from that look. PLEASE!

oweb26
03-21-2011, 09:24 AM
Meh. The blocking is so piss poor, that play will never work. You'd have to have a superhuman offensive line to be able to block that play long enough for the back to get clear across the formation.

So I am extrememly late in seeing this, but what I found in my OD was that if you get a pure run blocking O-lineman then your running game will improve dramatically. Now that downside of course is they cant do anything else, so you will have to adjust our line accordingly. I had a beast of an run blocking left tackle, with a really high impact blocking, every game that season both my running back and my QB had over 100 yards just running behind him most of the game.

Kwizzy
03-21-2011, 10:01 AM
Like the look of the new play, Hoping that formation (and play) gets added to Nebraska's playbook this year because that's the formation they use as a wildcat formation.

I absolutely agree that when incorporating ANY automotion they should try to incorporate as many plays as possible that use the same motion. Mors you are 100% spot on about that.

Sinister
03-21-2011, 10:12 AM
I hope the blocking for PA holds up this time, its been hit or miss with the blocking for playaction

Jayrah
03-21-2011, 10:12 AM
My issue with it all is this: Give me more than two freakin' plays that look like that. No team is only going to run two plays that have that type of motion. Incorporate it into a BUNCH of the plays from that formation: HB Pitch to the strong side, HB counter to the strong side (so that the TE can motion and come back across and block with the LG pulling out for the block as well), some type of passing play to take advantage of that TE being against a LB in the flats without there being any PA, HB Pitch to the weak side with the motioned TE "lead" blocking, etc. Just give me more than TWO plays from that look. PLEASE!

EXACTLY! I have an EASY fix to this however for EA to implement, similar to a create a play option, that will make things more exciting from a playcallers perspective, and freshen up the playcalling altogether, even without create a play. *To incorporate a "built in automotion" option into the playcall screen system on standard, non automotion plays*. This would allow you, the playcalling coach, to either:
(a) take any of your players and give them a specific motion action, kind of a create your own motion option OR:
(b) It can be limited to the already built in playbook motions so it's only in YOUR offensive system, but allow the user to take advantage of the automotion feature by putting it on any play in that formation if he so chooses. So basically an on/off switch for that specific motion in any play you desire within the formation.

The other, maybe even EASIER option (because I'm not sure how "easy" an on/off switch is), is to take 3 or 4 or 5 different plays from every formation with one of these auto motion plays and either:
(c) simply incorporate the same automotion into the play as is OR:
(d) create "shadow" plays with the automotion built into one of them, and not built in to the other.

The next important step would to be randomly assigning that within the playcall system of the cpu, so that they get a boost from that as well. Which is why C or D might be more viable immediately.

Jayrah
03-21-2011, 10:39 AM
And since we're talking about the play in general: Based on this new play I am going to add another wishlist type item that would be EASY to implement.

First, here is why: This particular PA play can be a quick-hit-type play or a medial developing play in Oregon's IRL set, but will take forever to execute in the game with the current PA system. There are a million and one PA's in this game that are the same way in all playbooks.

And now, here is how: Outside of goal line situations, there are a lot of plays IRL that have a hard mesh point with the rb and most of them include the rb as a dump route in front of the LBs, a safety valve, or decoy. However, most of the plays where the rb will become a blocker or run a normal route or flat route have a 'soft' or 'sugar' action, where the qb kind of puts the ball or a hand out but doesn't really come close to the mesh point, therefore giving him time to survey the field and get set quickly. This sugar action would be a perfect and important 'addition' for just this type of PA play we are seeing, especially in a blitz situation. EA could even call it "Sugar Action" or SA as opposed to PA to give the playcaller an idea of which one he is seeing and running.

I would really like to see this implemented asap, as it is an easy fix imo. The animation and path of the qb (maybe a step or step and 1/2 difference, just not quite so close to the rb) is all that would need to be addressed. I am sad we didn't think of this earlier, as it would be a HUGE, minor addition, that would really help out the PA game. The qb would still complete the action, but there would be less time involved and give an extra 1/2 second to second, to actually get a pass off cleanly.

JBHuskers
03-21-2011, 11:30 AM
I hope the blocking for PA holds up this time, its been hit or miss with the blocking for playaction

This year it was broken. I know for a fact that we have relayed this fact to the devs for 12. I expect it to be better this year.

CLW
03-21-2011, 11:38 AM
Always welcome more/new plays.

#1 There needs to be a "linked" play to each of these that are different. For this PA pass there needs to be a run play off of it.

#2 The new plays will mean nothing if they don't work due to gameplay/AI. I don't think I have called many PA passes due to the poor pass coverage. It drives me nuts when I call one and I get sacked before I can even fake hand the ball off. Yet I see the CPU pull of PA passes like Peyton Manning.

Solidice
03-22-2011, 06:19 PM
not sure if it was mentioned, but for the Weak I Normal Y Over Fly Sweep play, I'm pretty sure the TE will line up on the left side(FB side) from the beginning. the blocking line is just there to show you where he would normally be in that formation. I want to say I've seen it done like that before in other plays in NCAA 11 and before.

that is how I think it'll be anyway, based on the play description.

JBHuskers
03-23-2011, 08:55 AM
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s159/jbennett98/PistolSpreadRNSSwitchSmash.jpg

Pistol Spread RNS Switch Smash – Hawaii’s run and shoot offense can now be run from the Pistol formation. The traditional staples such as RNS Switch Smash can now be found in the new Pistol Spread formation. Hawaii and SMU’s playbook also features the run and shoot version of Pistol 4WR Trips.

JBHuskers
03-23-2011, 08:55 AM
RNS Switch Smash sounds like a video game :D

baseballplyrmvp
03-23-2011, 09:10 AM
Hawaii’s run and shoot offense can now be run from the Pistol formation.i assume this means that they switched all of the shotgun formations to the pistol in hawaii's pb?

hopefully they have our qb lined up in the pistol at 5 yards deep instead of 4 like nevada. but i doubt they would make that change.

CLW
03-23-2011, 09:52 AM
Nice. I'll def be checking out Hawaii's PB next season if they did indeed switch everything to the pistol.

Jayrah
03-23-2011, 10:40 AM
It says "can be run from the pistol". Does Hawaii run only pistol formations? Just wondering. It seems like that's correct, but the wording is interesting. I would like to see teams that don't have a true, traditional goal line package (like a nevada, or hawaii I think), not have one in the game.

JBHuskers
03-23-2011, 11:17 AM
It says "can be run from the pistol". Does Hawaii run only pistol formations? Just wondering. It seems like that's correct, but the wording is interesting. I would like to see teams that don't have a true, traditional goal line package (like a nevada, or hawaii I think), not have one in the game.

Didn't they switch to it exclusively last year?

baseballplyrmvp
03-23-2011, 07:28 PM
Didn't they switch to it exclusively last year?

ya, hawaii did...even though its a pistol alignment, its the same depth (5 yards) as how they lined up in the gun. its not a 3 or 4 yard snap like nevada's pistol.

and we still have a traditional goalline package though, jayrah. its used very sparingly though....most of the time, the play call is a speed option to the strongside of the formation.

JeffHCross
03-23-2011, 07:41 PM
Browser cache for the loss -- mvp had already answered.

JBHuskers
03-25-2011, 08:49 AM
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s159/jbennett98/PistolTrianTripleOption.jpg

Pistol Train Triple Option - Primarily used as a short yardage power set from the Pistol, the Train formation as it’s called by Nevada gives the offensive a variety of ways to attack the defense in short yardage situations. The Triple Option play is one such play that can be used to attack the defense.

CLW
03-25-2011, 08:52 AM
wow with all these new pistol plays/formations I'm definitely intrigued about the possibility of using it next yr.

Anyone use the Pistol currently care to comment on its effectiveness?

oweb26
03-25-2011, 09:18 AM
I exclusively ran the pistol for most of my dynasty last year, it is an awesoome playbook but I will say its about an entire season learning curve. And get the fastest QB with accel you can find.


JB is it possible to get the play art as the clickable link like earlier instead of embedded into the forum. I cant see them at my job as imbedded pics but I can click it and open the play art. I know this is a very personal request so if its not possible no harm no foul.


Edit: Nevermind I see you are editing your first post with the play art link.

Also don't these plays look like other plays already in the game?

gschwendt
03-25-2011, 09:23 AM
Also don't these plays look like other plays already in the game?
I think it's about half & half showing off new plays and new formations. You're right that a Pistol Triple Option is in the game but the formation itself is new.

morsdraconis
03-25-2011, 10:03 AM
Gotta say, it's about time they actually fleshed out the Pistol like it should be... Looks good. REALLY like the balance of that formation. Interested to see who that is lined up next to the QB (probably a FB, but a TE or 2nd HB would be nasty).

steelerfan
03-25-2011, 10:38 AM
This looks great. My favorite new design so far!

oweb26
03-25-2011, 11:02 AM
Gotta say, it's about time they actually fleshed out the Pistol like it should be... Looks good. REALLY like the balance of that formation. Interested to see who that is lined up next to the QB (probably a FB, but a TE or 2nd HB would be nasty).

A TE next to the QB on a option play would be nothing more than a backside blocker, as a user I wouldnt even respect him as a threat, aslo it looks like it would be your 2nd string TE becasue I would imagine that your starter is on the line. I would assume a FB though, and you can flip in a 2nd RB.

Kwizzy
03-25-2011, 12:29 PM
LOVE this play! I can definitely see Nebraska running something like this too. I hope that some of the pistol formations have found their way into their playbook.

xMrHitStickx904
03-25-2011, 12:38 PM
For the last week or so, i've been running Pistol exclusively, and I'm liking the new formations and setups to keep people off balance. Just make sure you make the right read.

baseballplyrmvp
03-25-2011, 09:40 PM
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s159/jbennett98/PistolTrianTripleOption.jpg
so, on passing plays in this formation, would the left tackle be an elligible receiver?

JeffHCross
03-25-2011, 09:47 PM
I'm guessing it's a Tackle Over formation, MVP.

jaymo76
03-25-2011, 09:55 PM
wow with all these new pistol plays/formations I'm definitely intrigued about the possibility of using it next yr.

Anyone use the Pistol currently care to comment on its effectiveness?

I like the Pistol but I abandoned it after 3-4 games in NCAA 11. I just could not run the ball. I prefer Pistol sets with an RB and an FB but without custom playbooks I could not get the right run game for my liking.

baseballplyrmvp
03-25-2011, 11:32 PM
I'm guessing it's a Tackle Over formation, MVP.

oh....well duh on my part. ya, that makes a lot more sense. :o
thanks

JeffHCross
03-25-2011, 11:36 PM
oh....well duh on my part. ya, that makes a lot more sense. :o
thanksI'm honestly not 100% sure. I was able to find a youtube of Nevada actually running it, and it looked like a tackle on the end. Which would mean he'd be eligible, yes.

So either it's a Tackle Over formation, or it'd probably be a formation where the RT is eligible but rarely goes out for a pass.

Jayrah
03-27-2011, 07:02 PM
I REALLY like this play. Although I rarely, if ever, run with the pistol set, I still love the versatility.

gschwendt
03-28-2011, 08:46 AM
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5095/5568116794_745c0169ce_z.jpg

Shotgun Wild Tiger Trey Fight Song – Auburn’s offense features a wide variety of unique and imaginative plays. One of the more interesting plays in their offense is Shotgun Wild Tiger Trey Fight Song. In this play the left tackle aligns on the ball on the right side of the formation in a receiver position. The left tackle is used as a decoy to throw off the defensive recognition of the play.

JBHuskers
03-28-2011, 09:26 AM
That play is pretty sick!

Kwizzy
03-28-2011, 09:34 AM
This is an example of a play that I don't really understand why it was chosen to be put into the game. I understand that Auburn fans will love and appreciate this detail however I feel that there are enough plays that don't work correctly or are plain missing from the game to be putting in these types of plays that are one offs and a dead give away (game-wise) because of the odd alignment.

Now perhaps I'm way off base here and this took almost no time to incorporate and there are several plays that play off of it however that is my first thought when I read that description. It is a very neat concept for a play however I'm just unsure of why this would be incorporated before more common plays or before other plays currently in the game work correctly. Just my honest opinion.

gschwendt
03-28-2011, 09:34 AM
I just hope (like others have mentioned for other plays) that there is enough corresponding plays so that it's not easy to see what you're running. I imagine that will be the case but still have that concern.

psusnoop
03-28-2011, 09:43 AM
I just hope (like others have mentioned for other plays) that there is enough corresponding plays so that it's not easy to see what you're running. I imagine that will be the case but still have that concern.

I second that.

steelerfan
03-28-2011, 09:57 AM
I second that.

Thirded.

Cool play, needs to have some others from the same alignment.

CLW
03-28-2011, 11:04 AM
Anyone know if the tackle is/can be an eligible receiver in that formation/package?

gschwendt
03-28-2011, 11:08 AM
Anyone know if the tackle is/can be an eligible receiver in that formation/package?
No... he's ineligible because he's covered by the receiver on the outside.

morsdraconis
03-28-2011, 11:10 AM
In the game, I highly doubt it. You'd have to make the A receiver an ineligible receiver somehow and I doubt you'll have that ability.

Truthfully, I understand the concept from a real life standpoint, but I don't see how this play is going to be used in a gameplay standpoint. Obviously, you're losing a blocker to the outside for a SMALL amount of confusion. Is the CPU actually going to be stupid enough to cover the RT outside in man coverage instead of the A receiver? I HIGHLY doubt that. If they do, that's a free receiver every time. Talk about a money play (against the CPU, of course).

gschwendt
03-28-2011, 11:13 AM
The CPU won't cover the RT... they only pay attention to eligible receivers. It's basically like a half emory & henry formation. The one thing I hope that is included is a screen to B receiver.

CLW
03-28-2011, 11:17 AM
No... he's ineligible because he's covered by the receiver on the outside.

That's what I thought but I'm not a rules expert by any stretch of the imagination. LOL was envisioning screen passes to OTs and a scene from Varsity Blues where Billy Bob charges into the endzone with 3 people jumping on him attempting a tackle.

morsdraconis
03-28-2011, 11:21 AM
The CPU won't cover the RT... they only pay attention to eligible receivers. It's basically like a half emory & henry formation. The one thing I hope that is included is a screen to B receiver.

That with a Jet Sweep from LB or X would be great. Or a quick screen to Y (since the RT won't be covered by anyone, putting him in the best spot possible for a solid block on Y's coverage man).

I just don't see how a verticals play is going to be useful with one less blocker in the game... The blocking is already poor with a very simple overload, imagine the sieve that 4 blockers would leave?

Jayrah
03-28-2011, 11:27 AM
Kwizzy and crew, it's quite possible that this was one of the last plays/formations they added, but are not showing us in order of play creation. Also, it has been mentioned that there are more than 25 new plays that have/are being added. Therefore, it is not at all unreasonable to assume that these new formations will have several plays in their package, just as all the other formations do. I don't ever remember a formation being added to ncaa without at least 3-5 plays minimum in its pack. But even if it is a "one off" play, it's still a great addition to the playbook, and shows me that they were looking to spice it up around the spectrum of college football, as opposed to finding one style (like a few years ago with option), and therefore minimizing the amount of playbooks to work with, and leaving the rest for next year. Furthermore, they've now offensively touched on several different team styles of offense, including Hawaii, Nevada, Auburn, Oregon State, and others. This is very encouraging to me, although we don't all feel this way, and that's ok.

Now as for the creation time, how much time in create-a-play did we spend throwing route combos together back in the day? Not a ton if we knew what play we were putting together. Basically you had to set each assignment and that was that. For EA, the new formation itself might have taken a bit of time though, But once that was set the plays were prolly fairly easy. The plays that are currently "broken" are mostly "broken" due to (a) a wrong assignment or a couple within the play or (b) the act of the fundamental play design not working well with the fundamental physics of interaction within the AI. Since the AI is being tweaked each year, they are working on fixing some plays by default (such as the option last season with fundamental blocking changes), and hopefully those wrong assignments get fixed as well. I think we would all, in fact, love to see the "fixed" plays, along with the new plays.

xMrHitStickx904
03-28-2011, 11:28 AM
it's all about realism. will it work most of the time? no. But this isn't a staple play, it's a wrinkle, and as long this wrinkle has a few extra looks, then that's all it needs. we do need more staple pays and formations, but we also need to have the playbook specific wrinkles that separate it from others as well.

Jayrah
03-28-2011, 11:47 AM
That with a Jet Sweep from LB or X would be great. Or a quick screen to Y (since the RT won't be covered by anyone, putting him in the best spot possible for a solid block on Y's coverage man).

I just don't see how a verticals play is going to be useful with one less blocker in the game... The blocking is already poor with a very simple overload, imagine the sieve that 4 blockers would leave?

THIS is the problem. However, maybe more often than not, we would see a 3 down coverage defense against the 5 wide spread set, in which case you may get away with it a fair amount of time. And since it's a "unique" design/wrinkle, it's not necessarily meant to be used more than a couple times a game maximum, so combined with a screen and like a jet sweep, it would be like a Wildcat type play just to create more balance for you and less for the defense. It's designed to work big due to poor defensive alignment, and if not it's going to get demolished, so it's a great risk/reward play design, both IRL and in the game imo. If it's a $ play, that'll be sad though, cuz ppl will overuse it, but I don't see why it wouldn't be defend-able (assuming zones have been worked on). It's just a trips left/slot right play design when all is said and done.

Jayrah
03-28-2011, 11:48 AM
it's all about realism. will it work most of the time? no. But this isn't a staple play, it's a wrinkle, and as long this wrinkle has a few extra looks, then that's all it needs. we do need more staple pays and formations, but we also need to have the playbook specific wrinkles that separate it from others as well.

THIS!

Kwizzy
03-28-2011, 11:51 AM
I think I am completely on the same page with everyone else but I was merely trying to point out one concern I have with plays like this. If this play is well incorporated in to the formation/playbook & there are several plays that play off it (and it took little time to add) then I withdraw my concerns for the most part.

As far as uniqueness of individual playbooks goes, I completely agree that they need to try to incorporate as much of that stuff as possible. I just tend to believe that there are some fairly basic plays, especially in playbooks that involve spread formations (like Auburn), that don't currently work properly and could benefit from the time. I guess what I'm really saying is, why try to get the specifics of Auburn's spread attack right when there are still core elements of EVERY spread that don't currently function as they should.

Again, perhaps the two things are unrelated, and adding this play took absolutely no time away from troubleshooting other plays (or better yet, they already addressed those concerns).

Keontez
03-28-2011, 12:33 PM
The CPU won't cover the RT... they only pay attention to eligible receivers. It's basically like a half emory & henry formation. The one thing I hope that is included is a screen to B receiver.

Not True. I use the flexbone playbook exclusively. In the Flexbone Twins formation, the slot receiver is covered and ineligible but gets covered when the defense playing m/m defense.

JeffHCross
03-28-2011, 06:32 PM
Not True. I use the flexbone playbook exclusively. In the Flexbone Twins formation, the slot receiver is covered and ineligible but gets covered when the defense playing m/m defense.+1, this is true.

Jayrah
03-29-2011, 05:36 PM
Ooo Ooo, I have a thing that I just remembered looking at the playart of some of these plays, and talking flexbone. I would like to see EA implement into their plays, the length of the flat route by my rbs or wrs. If it is stopping at the hash, I want to see a ----| OR ----O OR a curl pattern, instead of a ----> in the playart. I am sick of overthrowing my rb because he is supposed to be running a flat route to the sideline according to the playart, but stops short because his actual route is to the hash marks. My qb throws the playart route, not the intended route. I imagine in flexbone that the flat route is a key component to the pass game.

JBHuskers
03-30-2011, 09:44 AM
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s159/jbennett98/I-FormTwinTEBadgerPower.jpg

I-Form Twin TE Badger Power – A staple of the Wisconsin power running game, I-Form Twin TE Badger Power is a play that combines elements of both a counter and power play. The Badgers like to send the wing tight end in motion to the weak side and at the snap he becomes the second “puller” on the play. Factor in the fullback and Wisconsin can get three lead blockers at the point of attack.

Kwizzy
03-30-2011, 09:59 AM
Like this play a lot! Nebraska did some similar stuff last year with their pistol formations & it really worked out well (see opening play from scrimmage vs Mizzou). Motioning that TE presnap definitely decieves the defense as to where the strength of the formation will end up being. Hopefully this works out similarly in the game.

CLW
03-30-2011, 10:59 AM
that is a NICE power running play

Jayrah
03-30-2011, 12:00 PM
oh my gosh. That's awesome right thure!

JBHuskers
03-30-2011, 12:19 PM
oh my gosh. That's awesome right thure!

Thure or Thurrrrr?

ryby6969
03-30-2011, 12:48 PM
Oh hell yeah!!

Paakaa10
03-30-2011, 12:54 PM
As somebody who loves employing the Power run game, I'm very excited about what this play can do to help supplement my playcalling. Really digging the TE motion pre-snap as well, could definitely be useful in conjunction with "flipping" the play to go to the left instead.

gschwendt
03-30-2011, 01:12 PM
As somebody who loves employing the Power run game, I'm very excited about what this play can do to help supplement my playcalling. Really digging the TE motion pre-snap as well, could definitely be useful in conjunction with "flipping" the play to go to the left instead.
Generally you can't flip plays that have automotion included in them.

steelerfan
03-30-2011, 01:16 PM
Generally you can't flip plays that have automotion included in them.

Good thing. The RG would run into the "pulling" TE if you did, lol.

Paakaa10
03-30-2011, 01:43 PM
Generally you can't flip plays that have automotion included in them.

I didn't mean the right-stick "flip" once you come to the line of scrimmage, because that would--as steelerfan says--screw up the play fundamentally; I mean just "flipping" it in the playbook and throwing a wrinkle because more often than not "Power" run plays go to the right side of the field.

MCdonnieG
03-30-2011, 02:36 PM
Yea out of all the plays that have been released, this is by far my favorite! I mean look at this play.....it's beautiful! I'm a power running type of guy so seeing this only gives me goosebumps! We're now talking about being able to have a lead blocker(FB), a pulling Guard as well as a motioning TE to pick up the scraps backside......Wooo....then add in if you have a explosive RB!! Loving it!!! :drool:

xMrHitStickx904
03-30-2011, 03:19 PM
yup, this is the third and 1 play right here.

morsdraconis
03-30-2011, 04:01 PM
Looks like another money play to me.

Jayrah
03-31-2011, 04:42 PM
Looks like another money play to me.

All plays are money plays in design, thats why defense is formed against them. However, Wisconsin led the nation in rushing last season, so yes, I'd say this play is money "mr skeptical".

morsdraconis
03-31-2011, 06:37 PM
All plays are money plays in design, thats why defense is formed against them. However, Wisconsin led the nation in rushing last season, so yes, I'd say this play is money "mr skeptical".

Until they fix the defense to where it's not impossible to stop a running play unless you know EXACTLY what's coming at you, and power formation like that is pretty much a guaranteed 3+ yards.

Jayrah
03-31-2011, 08:05 PM
Until they fix the defense to where it's not impossible to stop a running play unless you know EXACTLY what's coming at you, and power formation like that is pretty much a guaranteed 3+ yards.

Mmmmhmmm. That's Wisconsin's staple running play. They averaged 5.5 yds a carry and had 48 touchdowns on the ground last season. Yup, that's supposed to get 3+ yds a play. In fact a mere total of 17 schools last season average less than 3.5 yds a carry. Against a Wisconsin type rushing attack, you have to load the box all the time. That's how you give yourself a chance to stop it.

It's not impossible to stop a run play this season, nor is it impossible to stop a great rushing offense for an entire game. Just like in Real Life, you need the players to do it against your particular opponent, and the play call has to be somewhat aggressive. I don't understand why people here have such an issue with offenses working. College football is a generally high scoring game. Could the defense be better? Especially in play variety (already being upgraded significantly), coverage and coverage animations that only end in ints or catches instead of a clean breakup, yes. In fact those last 2 things being improved would eliminate so many completions, which would bring more drives to an end and across the board create lower scoring games. But offenses work, they're designed too. It seems we are getting more tools to stop it more often, so the complaints at this point are unwarranted, especially considering that for 10 we were all disgruntled about how terrible the run game was, remember that?

Jayrah
03-31-2011, 08:10 PM
Thure or Thurrrrr?

Thurrrrr!!!!!!!!

morsdraconis
03-31-2011, 11:27 PM
Mmmmhmmm. That's Wisconsin's staple running play. They averaged 5.5 yds a carry and had 48 touchdowns on the ground last season. Yup, that's supposed to get 3+ yds a play. In fact a mere total of 17 schools last season average less than 3.5 yds a carry. Against a Wisconsin type rushing attack, you have to load the box all the time. That's how you give yourself a chance to stop it.

It's not impossible to stop a run play this season, nor is it impossible to stop a great rushing offense for an entire game. Just like in Real Life, you need the players to do it against your particular opponent, and the play call has to be somewhat aggressive. I don't understand why people here have such an issue with offenses working. College football is a generally high scoring game. Could the defense be better? Especially in play variety (already being upgraded significantly), coverage and coverage animations that only end in ints or catches instead of a clean breakup, yes. In fact those last 2 things being improved would eliminate so many completions, which would bring more drives to an end and across the board create lower scoring games. But offenses work, they're designed too. It seems we are getting more tools to stop it more often, so the complaints at this point are unwarranted, especially considering that for 10 we were all disgruntled about how terrible the run game was, remember that?

It's the normal rubberband fixing that EA has become know for that Jay. First, it's too hard, then it's too easy. For god's sake, if you gave me any team that was fairly decent at running the ball, had an offensive line that actually blocked for a bit, and sliders that weren't Heisman cheating shit, I could run the ball for 500+ yards a game without having to throw the ball once. Believe me, THAT'S not realistic AT ALL. And then, what's the incentive for running the ball in this game when I can throw the ball for 500 yards using a hurry-up offense the whole way and basically be unstoppable as long as my offensive line and WRs are halfway decent? Offense is so far beyond easy in '11, it's disgusting. When you have to hope and pray you can actually stop a dude on defense (and holding a good team to a FG is like winning the fuckin' Super Bowl), there's something wrong with the equation don't ya think?

And this is coming from someone that always was the defense wins championships kind of team builder. Offense will score when I need to, but my defense is going to shut you the fuck down. Good luck trying to do anything like that against someone even halfway decent at the game in '11.

Jayrah
04-01-2011, 02:49 AM
It's the normal rubberband fixing that EA has become know for that Jay. First, it's too hard, then it's too easy. For god's sake, if you gave me any team that was fairly decent at running the ball, had an offensive line that actually blocked for a bit, and sliders that weren't Heisman cheating shit, I could run the ball for 500+ yards a game without having to throw the ball once. Believe me, THAT'S not realistic AT ALL. And then, what's the incentive for running the ball in this game when I can throw the ball for 500 yards using a hurry-up offense the whole way and basically be unstoppable as long as my offensive line and WRs are halfway decent? Offense is so far beyond easy in '11, it's disgusting. When you have to hope and pray you can actually stop a dude on defense (and holding a good team to a FG is like winning the fuckin' Super Bowl), there's something wrong with the equation don't ya think?

And this is coming from someone that always was the defense wins championships kind of team builder. Offense will score when I need to, but my defense is going to shut you the fuck down. Good luck trying to do anything like that against someone even halfway decent at the game in '11.

There's a reason sliders exist. I have had, and seen some GREAT defensive battles in the TF league that I'm in. Like I said, is there more that can be done? Absolutely bro. Absolutely. And I hope it is. I hear ya, I just don't agree 100% that it's so far the other way from before that it's as terrible as you are referring it to be. I actually think the defense last in 11 is a whole lot better than in years past, I can (and do) play very good defensive games against other offensive oriented users. Everybody likes their game to play a little different. That's why sliders exist. Those also work better than in years past imo.

JBHuskers
04-01-2011, 08:27 AM
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s159/jbennett98/ShotgunTrioHBWkPAHuskerYPost.jpg

Shotgun Trio HB Wk PA Husker Y Post – Nebraska’s offense is known for generating big plays in the running game. To compliment their explosive rushing attack the Huskers will often use play action passes. Shotgun Trio HB Wk PA Husker Y Post is a play Nebraska uses with great success for getting the ball deep down the field to their tight end for a touchdown.

baseballplyrmvp
04-01-2011, 08:45 AM
they're early today.

Kwizzy
04-01-2011, 08:46 AM
NICE! Hopefully PA passes actually get some consistent blocking this year. If they do that'll be Kyler Reed (Excuse me... TE#25) for 6 all day! :))

JBHuskers
04-01-2011, 09:13 AM
NICE! Hopefully PA passes actually get some consistent blocking this year. If they do that'll be Kyler Reed (Excuse me... TE#25) for 6 all day! :))

This.

Jayrah
04-01-2011, 12:30 PM
Nice play, i like that formation, its nice to have an explosive play out of it

CLW
04-01-2011, 12:32 PM
Nice play. Of course that presumes your QB isn't hammered as soon as he fakes the hand off. I haven't called a PA pass in nearly 6 months! Even with a good run game going the CPU seems psychic and crushes my QB a split second after the fake hand off.

cdj
04-01-2011, 12:37 PM
In 11, it seems like PA works best if you know who you are going to try and throw to before you even snap the ball. Out of Ace Big Twins (IIRC) there is a PA Pass I liked to call after a turnover. I try and subscribe to the old Hayden Fry school of thought - after a turnover, try and go deep to catch the defense off-guard. After one of the patches/tuning updates it felt like it was even more difficult to pull off than before. I think I ditched it a couple months back.

Coincidentally, today's Omaha World-Herald had an article discussing TE #25 Nebraska tight end Kyler Reed (http://www.omaha.com/article/20110331/BIGRED/703319771) and the offense wanting to highlight him more this season. It goes well with this being the play of the day.

JeffHCross
04-01-2011, 05:13 PM
There are quite a few PA passes that do work in NCAA 11 ... there are just an unfortunate amount that don't.

mundo
04-01-2011, 06:30 PM
I know I am a play behind but I do hope that some of the gap fundamentals on defense are improved to get after that badger play. It would be a lot of fun to be able to play games up front and adjust to that run.

morsdraconis
04-01-2011, 06:39 PM
Not to reiterate too much, but what's the point if the defense doesn't bite on the PA at all? It's a great looking play, but, unless the defense actually bites on it (especially after you've shoved the ball down their throat repeatedly from that formation) what's the point?

steelerfan
04-01-2011, 11:29 PM
There are quite a few PA passes that do work in NCAA 11 ... there are just an unfortunate amount that don't.

Absolutely true.

Jayrah
04-02-2011, 11:31 AM
Not to reiterate too much, but what's the point if the defense doesn't bite on the PA at all? It's a great looking play, but, unless the defense actually bites on it (especially after you've shoved the ball down their throat repeatedly from that formation) what's the point?

There is no point. But again, I dont see this as the problem. The entire defense is NEVER going to jump PA Pass. Certain players are out of position because someone does bite everytime you set PA up the way you describe in 11. This is the goal of PA. Not to find someone wide open, but to catch 1 or 2 players out of position by 1 or 2 steps because they took longer to react. That DOES happen. The problem on PA is the blocking, which doesnt allow your play to develop to a point where you see the space created by the defenders out of position.

morsdraconis
04-02-2011, 12:07 PM
There is no point. But again, I dont see this as the problem. The entire defense is NEVER going to jump PA Pass. Certain players are out of position because someone does bite everytime you set PA up the way you describe in 11. This is the goal of PA. Not to find someone wide open, but to catch 1 or 2 players out of position by 1 or 2 steps because they took longer to react. That DOES happen. The problem on PA is the blocking, which doesnt allow your play to develop to a point where you see the space created by the defenders out of position.

I'm sorry, but no it doesn't. The LBs don't bite AT ALL on PA. They're the ones that should be biting (with the occasional bite by the SS/FS if they are playing the low part of the Cover 3 assignment) but they never do. I've seen it happen once, and it was with a player that was 60 something overall. That's the only time I've ever seen it happen and I run a ball control and PA pass offense quite often.

The only time there is space created is because they're playing shitty zone coverage. There is absolutely no space created from the PA pass otherwise. Against man coverage, there's no space created by the PA, only whatever space is created because your players are better than theirs.

I know you really like the game man and that's fine, but to say that there isn't something fundamentally wrong with the defensive play and how they don't read the play in the backfield at all (thus causing them to react to the PA like they're supposed to) is just silly man. Defenses are taught to flow to the ball but also to keep their assignments. A normal 4-3 defense, the strongside LB and MLB would hesitate for a moment before going back to their coverage on the above PA pass play, but they don't (unless you tell them to play the run for some silly reason). They immediately drop back. It's totally opposite of what it should be. The strongside LB and MLB should be reading run first in the 4-3 (with the weakside LB playing contain as they watch for the bootleg) and flowing toward the direction of the ball.

I mean, the whole reason for doing a PA pass is to get the defense flowing in one direction and taking advantage of that by attacking the areas where they've left open. Take the above PA pass for instance:


http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s159/jbennett98/ShotgunTrioHBWkPAHuskerYPost.jpg


The whole point of the TE attacking like he is, is to put pressure on the seam created by the LBs reading the run first, allowing the TE to get behind the LBs. This play in the game, the TE will almost never be a viable target unless the defense is playing Cover 3 with the FS playing down in the box (and then, it would be a VERY tight fit). The more likely target would be the A or LB receivers coming across because of how horrible zone coverage is and how those routes are man coverage beaters (to an extent).

I guarantee you that if you take a play similar to this play with a run play off of it into a normal play now game, ran the other play a few times and then came out in the PA pass that's off of that run, you'll be lucky to get anything out of it to the TE down the seam. The LBs just don't react like they should. The only time a LB will actually play the run is if they are in man coverage with the RB/FB you're faking the ball to and then it's simply them just following their man, not reading the QB and the play at all.

steelerfan
04-02-2011, 04:18 PM
Again, it hurts my brain every time I read the "this fucking shit won't work" or the "that shit will be money" posts. Why are people unable to enjoy that new plays are being added, and shown to us, without plugging them into NCAA 11? These plays aren't in 11, they're in 12. Until we play a retail copy of 12 (not a demo), how the hell do you know what will or won't work? Forget 11, this is 12. And the "look at EA's history" debate is dumb. The game jumped by leaps and bounds in 11, until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume the same for 12.

JeffHCross
04-02-2011, 06:21 PM
Well said, though you're forgetting the first rule of football gaming: Everything is money/broken until proven stoppable/working.

steelerfan
04-02-2011, 07:19 PM
Well said, though you're forgetting the first rule of football gaming: Everything is money/broken until proven stoppable/working.

Lol.

Jayrah
04-02-2011, 08:29 PM
@Steelerfan - Well said. This was also an argument last year and in many respects I think the complaints of how things weren't going to work because of how '10 acted and the problems that '10 had were proven misleading.

@MorsD - I find it somewhat amusing that at the top of the page you complain about how the running AND passing is way too easy in the game, and there are a ton of $$$ plays, so much so that you could run OR throw for an easy 500 yards. And then, not even a page later you jump on the other train and go off about how the defense doesn't react well enough to throw the ball over the top of them for what would seem to be a guaranteed 6.

I think we're all aware that zones are off in '11. We're also all aware that the PA is screwed up on many PA plays. As Steelerfan said, there's going to be a difference in the way '12 reacts to these plays. Will it be perfect? No. Will it be much, much better? Due to all the complaints about those 2 fundamental flaws in the defense, and the fact that they're so much as putting new defensive plays in the game and paying attention to that side of the ball for the 1st time in 6 or 7 years, I would say yes. But regardless, if you're gonna complain about the way the game is currently, at least have a complaint that stays on the same path. I don't like the flaws any more than you do, and I'm not defending the game based on how much I like it. I like what these plays mean to the new game and also I am still playing the old game. Sometimes I see what you're saying, but it isn't every time, as you claim it to be. I have thrown to my TE for 4 or 5 touchdowns and several other big plays over the top on PA passes due to the safeties, and or the LB that was covering jumping up on a run. I have played many, many games to get there, but it happens. And I wouldn't want it to happen much more than that if it was fixed.

Jayrah
04-02-2011, 10:20 PM
**The LBs don't bite AT ALL on PA. They're the ones that should be biting (with the occasional bite by the SS/FS if they are playing the low part of the Cover 3 assignment)

**Defenses are taught to flow to the ball but also to keep their assignments. A normal 4-3 defense, the strongside LB and MLB would hesitate for a moment before going back to their coverage on the above PA pass play, but they don't (unless you tell them to play the run for some silly reason). They immediately drop back. It's totally opposite of what it should be. The strongside LB and MLB should be reading run first in the 4-3 (with the weakside LB playing contain as they watch for the bootleg) and flowing toward the direction of the ball.

**I mean, the whole reason for doing a PA pass is to get the defense flowing in one direction and taking advantage of that by attacking the areas where they've left open.
[/LEFT]
[/CENTER]

All these are great points. Here's where I WILL agree with you. Flowing to the ball (pseudo labeled as pursuit for the game's sake) doesn't happen the way it should. It is most evident in special teams, where players angle and take straight paths to where they are headed, and then will re-angle once that path changes. There is little "pursuit" going on, as pursuit is more of an awareness of circularly adjusting your path to the ball carriers speed and path. A better version of "pursuit" in the game would really help special teams, in both covering and returning.

This part of the game is magnified when you also add the lack of a "slow read" by non-blitzers in a normal play set, as you were talking about with the LB's pausing. This obviously causes and all or nothing effect, where either they come up and get sucked into the linemen or runner, or you don't get that pausing effect and they go back into their drop in a very timely fashion, considering the play action.

With a slow read, the LB's should slowly slide or "flow" (keeping shoulders parallel to the LOS) 1 or 2 steps in the direction that their "read" takes them, and of course their ability to do this effectively and correctly on a play by play basis should be determined by awareness and pursuit ratings. After a play has been run a couple times, or a good LB gets a sense of where a play is going to go based on play call tendencies, he would then do what they do now and recklessly attack a spot in the LOS that he feels he can get to the ball carrier with, or not be fooled on a PA, in say, an obvious passing situation.

At least I feel like that might be the biggest problem the game is facing in the area of PA, but also the rush game (especially on Power Plays currently), because without that flow, the line easily handles the defense with the extra blocker, and it's "night night sweetheart" as the old Corso would say. :)

steelerfan
04-03-2011, 02:46 AM
I totally agree that PA has it's issues in 11. Chief among them is blocking. There are PA passes that aren't broken though, and there's no way for anyone to accurately say which ones (if any) will work/not work in 12. I guess we'll see in July (well, those of us who are still console gamers at that point will, anyway).

Kwizzy
04-03-2011, 08:53 AM
I would tend to agree with those that say that all PA passes ARE broken in the sense that the cpu does not bite on the fake. I would really like to see EA focus on "tendency memory" of some sort. Until the cpu bites on the fake every once and awhile because you've been running it down their throats, PA really isn't living up to it's potential. Even if they do fix the blocking.

morsdraconis
04-03-2011, 11:30 AM
I would tend to agree with those that say that all PA passes ARE broken in the sense that the cpu does not bite on the fake. I would really like to see EA focus on "tendency memory" of some sort. Until the cpu bites on the fake every once and awhile because you've been running it down their throats, PA really isn't living up to it's potential. Even if they do fix the blocking.

Exactly. The only time the CPU bites on the fake is if you're using the setup play crap (that's horrible conceived). And, even then, because it was so overpowered in '10, they dumbed it down and now they don't even bite on the fake inside of that setup most of the time.



Look, a PA pass shouldn't be a TD every time. And the defense shouldn't bite on it so much that they're completely out of place. But, the PA pass should have some benefit to it if used properly (besides hitting freakin' crossing and drag routes - which are about the only routes that work in a PA pass play because it takes so long to fake the handoff and your QB to spin back around and set his feet), otherwise, what's the point? Right now, you'd better off to just do a passing play from a formation that looks like the same setup of the run that you've been doing than you are to actually do a PA pass from that same setup. Why? Because there's basically no strategic benefit from using the PA pass in this game (unless you're playing against a human player).

Jayrah
04-03-2011, 02:16 PM
Exactly. The only time the CPU bites on the fake is if you're using the setup play crap (that's horrible conceived). And, even then, because it was so overpowered in '10, they dumbed it down and now they don't even bite on the fake inside of that setup most of the time.



Look, a PA pass shouldn't be a TD every time. And the defense shouldn't bite on it so much that they're completely out of place. But, the PA pass should have some benefit to it if used properly (besides hitting freakin' crossing and drag routes - which are about the only routes that work in a PA pass play because it takes so long to fake the handoff and your QB to spin back around and set his feet), otherwise, what's the point? Right now, you'd better off to just do a passing play from a formation that looks like the same setup of the run that you've been doing than you are to actually do a PA pass from that same setup. Why? Because there's basically no strategic benefit from using the PA pass in this game (unless you're playing against a human player).

Yeah I want to see the "sugar" play fake added. It DOES take forever to complete a play action. And screen passes need the 1 count "blocking" scheme instead of the sit down and just wait for a second, allowing the d-line past without interference before going to find someone to block. Those 2 additions would make the offense more realistic and I think change the dynamics of the current offense.

Since we're talking Nebraska with that PA pass too, the fake option needs to accomplish the same thing with the flow of the defense. Something needs to be done about the way that D reacts to the fake option.

morsdraconis
04-03-2011, 06:25 PM
Yeah I want to see the "sugar" play fake added. It DOES take forever to complete a play action. And screen passes need the 1 count "blocking" scheme instead of the sit down and just wait for a second, allowing the d-line past without interference before going to find someone to block. Those 2 additions would make the offense more realistic and I think change the dynamics of the current offense.

Since we're talking Nebraska with that PA pass too, the fake option needs to accomplish the same thing with the flow of the defense. Something needs to be done about the way that D reacts to the fake option.

The fake option is a whole 'nother ball of wax. The way they have the option played by the defense is ridiculous, but definitely the defense flowing one way or another is a big issue, but, the biggest issue is the defensive player's ability to change direction on a dime so often (especially when you try to speed burst away from them). You're basically banging your head against the wall if you want to run a shotgun based running game (yes, I know it still works, but you also can't deny the fact that it doesn't work as well as an under center running game).

Jayrah
04-04-2011, 01:50 AM
The fake option is a whole 'nother ball of wax. The way they have the option played by the defense is ridiculous, but definitely the defense flowing one way or another is a big issue, but, the biggest issue is the defensive player's ability to change direction on a dime so often (especially when you try to speed burst away from them). You're basically banging your head against the wall if you want to run a shotgun based running game (yes, I know it still works, but you also can't deny the fact that it doesn't work as well as an under center running game).

No not nearly as well. For the most part that's the way it is IRL just because of the teams doing it, but yeah with like a Michigan or Florida or Oregon last year, you never woulda got that out of SG in the game.

xMrHitStickx904
04-04-2011, 06:34 AM
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/206396_10150148679352280_90440037279_6514879_55093 54_n.jpg

Shotgun Normal Flex Ark HB Wheel – Shotgun Normal Flex Ark HB Wheel should be a familiar play to the fans of Arkansas. This is the same play the Hogs used to score a touchdown on the third play of the game against Alabama last season. The concept known as “Shark” in the Arkansas terminology uses a shallow cross/dig combination in the middle of the field and a post/wheel combination on the outside.

xMrHitStickx904
04-04-2011, 06:39 AM
Let me tell you, i'm going to love this play. Of course, I don't know how the game is going to end up playing, but the way I see it is this:

I'm probably going to make B do a slant, and smart route it for a quicker release off the line. Then, I'll motion him left before he touches the right hip of A, and here is why: Once the ball is snapped at that point, the slant gets a quicker release, A will get open on the second level of the defense, X is the very last option, and Y with a drag will be deadly.

Here is the fun part : The wheel route. Because I motioned B over, once I snap the ball, the line backer covering him may get held up in traffic due to the slant and the in route, and if he does, the back will be wide open down the sideline for a touchdown.

LOVE IT.


EDIT : Looking at it again, I might keep that deep post route against a Cover 1 defense, it makes the safety choose who to cover, the post or the wheel route.

CLW
04-04-2011, 09:23 AM
Nice play with all kinds of possibilities (particularly if you have "Reggie Bush" like RB)

morsdraconis
04-04-2011, 10:42 AM
Shit, you don't even need a Reggie Bush-like RB. I REALLY hope they fix how incredibly broken trying to cover HB Wheel routes are cause, as of '11, this new play is the epitome of a money play. Only thing that would have a prayer of initially stopping it would be Cover 2 (only to get torched later if you don't get to the QB).

You've pretty much got the defense in a bind no matter what defense they play.

Jayrah
04-04-2011, 11:55 AM
:D:D:D

C00KH4X
04-04-2011, 05:38 PM
Let me tell you, i'm going to love this play. Of course, I don't know how the game is going to end up playing, but the way I see it is this:

I'm probably going to make B do a slant, and smart route it for a quicker release off the line. Then, I'll motion him left before he touches the right hip of A, and here is why: Once the ball is snapped at that point, the slant gets a quicker release, A will get open on the second level of the defense, X is the very last option, and Y with a drag will be deadly.

Here is the fun part : The wheel route. Because I motioned B over, once I snap the ball, the line backer covering him may get held up in traffic due to the slant and the in route, and if he does, the back will be wide open down the sideline for a touchdown.

LOVE IT.


EDIT : Looking at it again, I might keep that deep post route against a Cover 1 defense, it makes the safety choose who to cover, the post or the wheel route.

That play looks legit, Though I would probably smart route B then motion him. In previous games that route when smart routed and motioned would be an unbump or a good quick throw. Either way I can't wait for this game to come out so I can play a college football game again.

psusnoop
04-04-2011, 07:07 PM
That play looks legit, Though I would probably smart route B then motion him. In previous games that route when smart routed and motioned would be an unbump or a good quick throw. Either way I can't wait for this game to come out so I can play a college football game again.


Pumped to see more information, I'm always salivating for info from April till release.

JeffHCross
04-04-2011, 09:28 PM
On the snap, it's possible that Ark HB Wheel will look similar to a Shallow Cross play. That could help with deception, if you're playing another user. If they read a Shallow Cross (and you've been using Shallow Cross heavily in your offense), they might jump the middle routes and leave either the Post or the Wheel wide open.

cdj
04-06-2011, 07:16 AM
http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/25NewPlays/20110406%20-%20Shotgun%20Wing%20Trips%20Wk%20Tiger%20Buck%20Sw eep.jpg

Shotgun Wing Trips Wk Tiger Buck Sweep – Clemson’s new no-huddle shotgun based offense will strive for balance with the run and pass. A staple run play of the Tigers’ new offense figures to be Shotgun Wing Trips WK Tiger Buck Sweep. The play is an off shoot of the Wing-T Buck Sweep in which both guards pull and lead block for the ball carrier.

Kwizzy
04-06-2011, 08:18 AM
I'm all for anything that adds to and/or improves the shotgun running game. Hopefully some of the blocking and CPU decision making in that respect have been addressed.

CLW
04-06-2011, 09:14 AM
That play looks to depend on whether the Center and Two tackles can keep the line and any blitzes up the middle from blowing that play up in the backfield. It's an interesting play but unless the O-line shotgun run blocking has changed I don't see this being a very effective play.

Jayrah
04-06-2011, 01:16 PM
That play looks to depend on whether the Center and Two tackles can keep the line and any blitzes up the middle from blowing that play up in the backfield. It's an interesting play but unless the O-line shotgun run blocking has changed I don't see this being a very effective play.

That's what I saw too. This is the one play so far that I can't see being successful. If the Center was reach blocking right, or the rb were lined up on the other side and received a quick pitch I could see it, but the left DT will blow this up. Interested to see what line improvements/adjustments they have made to 12 to give shotgun run in general a chance.

steelerfan
04-06-2011, 01:20 PM
I would guess that the LT blocks the RE, C blocks the RDT, RT blocks the LDT and TE blocks the LE.

Jayrah
04-06-2011, 01:50 PM
Just realized what the game is missing in the SG game that makes it impossible to run correctly: Seal Blocks and one on one Chipping (Chips exist on dbl teams)! This play requires a seal to the inside by the TE AND a chip block by the RT to get the rb around the corner.

CLW
04-06-2011, 04:51 PM
I would guess that the LT blocks the RE, C blocks the RDT, RT blocks the LDT and TE blocks the LE.

Perhaps but that still leaves 2 GAPING holes that a user controlled MLB could run right through and tackle the RB in the backfield. Perhaps run blocking has improved but if it stays the same this play would not be effective against a HUM opponent.

steelerfan
04-06-2011, 07:46 PM
Perhaps but that still leaves 2 GAPING holes that a user controlled MLB could run right through and tackle the RB in the backfield. Perhaps run blocking has improved but if it stays the same this play would not be effective against a HUM opponent.

If the MLB is already in the gap, yeah, you better audible out. If he's at his usual depth, I'd guess he could only go through clean over the LG at which point he'd be trailing the play already. If he shot through over the RG, he'd probably get hung up with the pulling LG. We'll see.

JeffHCross
04-06-2011, 10:57 PM
Just realized what the game is missing in the SG game that makes it impossible to run correctly: Seal Blocks and one on one Chipping (Chips exist on dbl teams)!You forgot cut blocks too. Teams with slower offensive linemen would probably use cuts on this play for the backside pressure, if they couldn't get there with a chip or seal.

Seal blocks do exist, they're just rare (or seem to be). I've found one HB Toss play that had a wonderful seal on the corner, but I've only found it in one playbook.

Jayrah
04-07-2011, 10:17 AM
You forgot cut blocks too. Teams with slower offensive linemen would probably use cuts on this play for the backside pressure, if they couldn't get there with a chip or seal.

Seal blocks do exist, they're just rare (or seem to be). I've found one HB Toss play that had a wonderful seal on the corner, but I've only found it in one playbook.

Oh excellent points! Cut blocks exist too but not at the line. More randomly out in space.

cdj
04-08-2011, 09:42 AM
http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/25NewPlays/20110408%20-%20I-Form%20Twins%20UK%20Fade%20Smash.jpg

I-Form Twins UK Fade Smash – I-Form Twins UK Fade Smash is a unique way that Kentucky likes to run the smash concept. In the traditional smash concept the slot receiver runs a corner route. The Wildcats like to use a fade route which gets the slot receiver near the same deep area of the field as if he were running a corner route.

Sinister
04-08-2011, 09:58 AM
http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/25NewPlays/20110408%20-%20I-Form%20Twins%20UK%20Fade%20Smash.jpg

I-Form Twins UK Fade Smash – I-Form Twins UK Fade Smash is a unique way that Kentucky likes to run the smash concept. In the traditional smash concept the slot receiver runs a corner route. The Wildcats like to use a fade route which gets the slot receiver near the same deep area of the field as if he were running a corner route.
I would rather the x reciever run stick nod on that route than hitch

ArkHogs
04-08-2011, 10:12 AM
http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/25NewPlays/20110408%20-%20I-Form%20Twins%20UK%20Fade%20Smash.jpg

I-Form Twins UK Fade Smash – I-Form Twins UK Fade Smash is a unique way that Kentucky likes to run the smash concept. In the traditional smash concept the slot receiver runs a corner route. The Wildcats like to use a fade route which gets the slot receiver near the same deep area of the field as if he were running a corner route.

Very nice! I'd look to hit B or A.

CLW
04-08-2011, 11:23 AM
Interesting play. I don't recall many Fade routes in the game this year.

morsdraconis
04-08-2011, 11:43 AM
Interesting play. I don't recall many Fade routes in the game this year.

I don't recall any, but I really didn't delve into all the playbooks this year like years past (partly because of no playbook tool to help sort through the madness).

Jayrah
04-08-2011, 12:15 PM
I don't recall any, but I really didn't delve into all the playbooks this year like years past (partly because of no playbook tool to help sort through the madness).

Yeah me either. If the fade can be thrown correctly (adding a touch lob to the qb repertoire), this will be a nice play, otherwise it kinda defeats the purpose. I'm sure you'll agree on that one ;)

CLW
04-08-2011, 12:36 PM
I don't recall any, but I really didn't delve into all the playbooks this year like years past (partly because of no playbook tool to help sort through the madness).


Yeah me either. If the fade can be thrown correctly (adding a touch lob to the qb repertoire), this will be a nice play, otherwise it kinda defeats the purpose. I'm sure you'll agree on that one ;)

Yeah you guys may be right there may not be ANY fade routes in 11. Of course, I don't think I would use look for one as I find the streak/fade to be nearly impossible to hit. The only times I ever hit a receiver on the streak is when the defense blitzes way too many and the streak receiver just happens to be the guy wide open or if my guy beats the BNR coverage with no safety help up top.

Jayrah
04-08-2011, 07:30 PM
Yeah you guys may be right there may not be ANY fade routes in 11. Of course, I don't think I would use look for one as I find the streak/fade to be nearly impossible to hit. The only times I ever hit a receiver on the streak is when the defense blitzes way too many and the streak receiver just happens to be the guy wide open or if my guy beats the BNR coverage with no safety help up top.

This is why a change in the way the pass is thrown (from an animation standpoint) would be good. Big wr's don't make enough of an impact in this part of the game. Or at least the way they should make an impact. They do, but it's more cheap catches in all parts of the field because of the game than because of their size in the fade/streak game.

JeffHCross
04-08-2011, 08:12 PM
There are some designed fades in NCAA 11, but it's hard to differentiate between them and Go's in the play art. More problematic is that they're thrown (and attempted to be caught) just like a streak, so it doesn't make much realistic difference.

HWill
04-10-2011, 11:10 PM
There are some designed fades in NCAA 11, but it's hard to differentiate between them and Go's in the play art. More problematic is that they're thrown (and attempted to be caught) just like a streak, so it doesn't make much realistic difference.

South Carolina has a goal line fade play out of Ace Slot Formation:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkZH5ThTmlY

HWill
04-10-2011, 11:16 PM
nm

gschwendt
04-11-2011, 08:58 AM
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5270/5609478345_aab19e08a2_z.jpg
Ace Big Twins Weak Flood – A three tiered flood concept, Ace Big Twins Weak Flood can be used to attack a variety of defensive coverages. The post route is the first read in the progression and if open the ball should be thrown there. The deep out route by the slot receiver combined with the shallow cross route of the tight end creates a hi/lo vertical stretch on the defense.

Kwizzy
04-11-2011, 09:48 AM
That's a nice looking play. If the blocking holds up it could really cause some issues for the defense.

JBHuskers
04-11-2011, 09:52 AM
This play definitely has a nice mixture of what I like in routes.

psusnoop
04-11-2011, 10:28 AM
This play looks really good, love the mix as JB mentioned.

morsdraconis
04-11-2011, 11:20 AM
Personally, that play actually looks a little TOO cluttered to one side. Obviously, it'll depend on the timing of the routes, but it looks like if the B receiver decides to run the curl route instead of the out route, it'd be a mess in that area of the field with three defenders very close together at about the same time.

Oneback
04-11-2011, 11:44 AM
Looking at it as its drawn the post and out/curl should break at 15 yards, this would open the drag by the tight end, with the turn route by the other tight end trailing at 10 yards. The HB would be an outlet pass if everyone else were covered.

morsdraconis
04-11-2011, 12:09 PM
I just think the 2nd TE (Y receiver) would be better served to run a slant route or some other type of inside route (In or Slant would do nicely). Then either inside route against man would have defenders running into each other left and right and the slant would be a nice parallel to the corner route by the X receiver. I just think it would give you more options than the turn route (which, never seemed to work as intended in '11 unless the receiver was ridiculously talented and I highly doubt anyone has a ridiculously talented 2nd TE).

Jayrah
04-11-2011, 12:33 PM
Personally, that play actually looks a little TOO cluttered to one side. Obviously, it'll depend on the timing of the routes, but it looks like if the B receiver decides to run the curl route instead of the out route, it'd be a mess in that area of the field with three defenders very close together at about the same time.

Yup I think the same thing to the boundary. I would like to see the Y TE continue out the back side I think. However (like you said depending on timing), this would be a nice play to the open side of the field. Regardless, this is good a 2nd and short play. Just be ready to possibly throw it away if the post doesn't immediately come open if you start on the near hash.

Oneback
04-11-2011, 12:57 PM
I have it from a reliable source that the post and the out/curl will break at 15 yards and that the play art is what is wrong. Which makes things a lot better.

xMrHitStickx904
04-12-2011, 09:05 AM
the TE slant is a nice quick pass, that's my first read. it'll take a hell of a tight end with a high agility rating to get out of his cut quick enough.

cdj
04-13-2011, 09:42 AM
http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/25NewPlays/20110413%20-%20Shotgun%20Trips%20Unbalanced%20Mizzou%20Jet.jpg

Shotgun Trips Unbalanced Mizzou Jet is a new addition to the Tigers high flying spread offense. The formation calls for the tight end to align on the line of scrimmage and places the split end on the left off the line of scrimmage. With three spread receivers combined with the halfback in the backfield, Missouri can get four blockers at the point of attack on the jet sweep.

CLW
04-13-2011, 12:19 PM
Mizzou's playbook has been the dominant playbook I have used in 11. However, I rarely have much success with Jet Sweep plays.

Jayrah
04-13-2011, 02:34 PM
I love that play!

baseballplyrmvp
04-13-2011, 07:47 PM
wouldnt the left tackle have to, theoretically, be an elligible receiver in this formation (emlos rule)? i'm curious how the quick audibles works from this formation- whether the tight end/flanker automatically steps off and the split end steps up; or if the left tackle actually is an elligible receiver and the tight end isnt?

NatureBoy
04-13-2011, 08:20 PM
South Carolina has a goal line fade play out of Ace Slot Formation:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkZH5ThTmlY:D Yep, I know that one well. I use it all the time.

cdj
04-15-2011, 09:30 AM
http://thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA12/25NewPlays/20110415%20-%20Shotgun%20Quads%20Trio%20Slot%20Pivot.jpg

Shotgun Quads Trio Slot Pivot – Shotgun Quads Trio Slot Pivot is a play that’s designed to put a horizontal stretch in the underneath coverage of zone defenses. The inside receiver closest to the formation runs a shallow cross while the next receiver to his right runs a pivot route. Those two routes going in opposite directions creates a natural void in zones for the dig route that’s ran by the next receiver over in the formation.

CLW
04-15-2011, 10:10 AM
O.K. I allready LOVE the Shotgun Quads formation in the Mizzou playbook. That play is a freaking DREAM! About the only thing I MIGHT consider making this play better would be if Y ran out to the flat and A ran the crossing pattern. That would create a likely "rub" against man coverage leaving one of them wide freaking open nearly every play.

Jayrah
04-15-2011, 03:21 PM
That play is awesome! The way the play is described, it gives me hope that they worked on the defensive coverages. That's the type of description I've been waiting for, "creating natural voids" in certain defenses. It could be absolutely nothing, but it seems like this is one play in particular that should give a good reference (when running it several times vs the current coverage systems) as to the issues of the past, and allow the team to do sufficient work on the coverages to make them function in a somewhat realistic manner.

Jayrah
04-15-2011, 03:22 PM
O.K. I allready LOVE the Shotgun Quads formation in the Mizzou playbook. That play is a freaking DREAM! About the only thing I MIGHT consider making this play better would be if Y ran out to the flat and A ran the crossing pattern. That would create a likely "rub" against man coverage leaving one of them wide freaking open nearly every play.

If you made that change those wrs run into eachother and screw up the timing. Guaranteed.

CLW
04-15-2011, 03:25 PM
If you made that change those wrs run into eachother and screw up the timing. Guaranteed.

Nah there are allready plays with similar concepts in the SG Quads and Bunch formations. I think the play is Z Spot or something like that and I just hout route the receiver just to the right to do a drag and/or slant and the receiver to the left goes out to the flat. That combo almost always works to perfection especially against man coverage.

Jayrah
04-15-2011, 03:29 PM
Nah there are allready plays with similar concepts in the SG Quads and Bunch formations. I think the play is Z Spot or something like that and I just hout route the receiver just to the right to do a drag and/or slant and the receiver to the left goes out to the flat. That combo almost always works to perfection especially against man coverage.

I always have those combos snuffed out by route running deficiencies and picking my own players as they come wide open.

xMrHitStickx904
04-18-2011, 04:49 AM
the slant/drag combination is deadly.

SJSUSpartans10
04-18-2011, 01:01 PM
If you're lazy to click through each photo on the NCAA facebook page, here's a video of all 25 plays with descriptions of each play.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV5WrPXcUaE

Jayrah
04-18-2011, 05:15 PM
If you're lazy to click through each photo on the NCAA facebook page, here's a video of all 25 plays with descriptions of each play.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV5WrPXcUaE

Thanks!