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View Full Version : Gschwendt- no, I am so disgusted, and sorry to see this - Indian nicknames changed



ram29jackson
10-05-2010, 06:10 PM
Didnt pay attention to this till now but I just realized Arkansas State changed their team name to red Wolves ...?

I was looking at my Phil Steele college preview and only just noticed this.

I am disgusted by teams/schools giving in to these small interest groups to get rid of Indian mascot/team names !!

they give up too easy. They need to follow in the steps of that school in North dakota ( Sioux)

and the Redskins and realize these small interest groups are no real threat.

same goes for ULM, Marquette, St Johns, Rutgers etc.

steelerfan
10-05-2010, 06:21 PM
Umm, wow. I'm fairly certain that Tommy had nothing to do with the original name and I doubt he came up with the new one either.

Here.....

Have a :reeses:

It's the perfect combination of chocolate and peanut butter. :P

ram29jackson
10-05-2010, 06:27 PM
Umm, wow. I'm fairly certain that Tommy had nothing to do with the original name and I doubt he came up with the new one either.

Here.....

Have a :reeses:

It's the perfect combination of chocolate and peanut butter. :P


I wonder if Reeses sales went up a little after the game was out for a while ? :P who said I blamed Tommy:P?

I'm just saying, if this were my favorite team. I would hate them changing their name .

steelerfan
10-05-2010, 06:31 PM
I wonder if Reeses sales went up a little after the game was out for a while ? :P who said I blamed Tommy:P?

I'm just saying, if this were my favorite team. I would hate them changing their name .

I just hope there aren't any Nittany Lions with their panties in a wad. :D

ram29jackson
10-05-2010, 06:44 PM
I just hope there aren't any Nittany Lions with their panties in a wad. :D


they probably dont notice because the team isnt doing thaaat well.

Penn State has decided to stick to grooming this young QB and the team is young/inexperienced again.

the D is still decent though, at least.



Long Live Indian Team Names !!!!!!!!!

JeffHCross
10-05-2010, 10:18 PM
It was two years ago that they changed ...

They didn't change due to the special interests group, it was the NCAA ban (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2125735).

ram29jackson
10-05-2010, 10:43 PM
It was two years ago that they changed ...

They didn't change due to the special interests group, it was the NCAA ban (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2125735).


an NCAA ban brought about by bowing to special interest groups of course.

theres no excuse for it, the NCAA is another politically correct, sissified organization. Just Pathetic.

an entire nation of division 1 schools without Indian names is the beginning of the end of recognizing Indian history

cdj
10-05-2010, 10:52 PM
an entire nation of division 1 schools without Indian names is the beginning of the end of recognizing Indian history

That's been my thought on it as well. The effort to be 'sensitive' may backfire in the long run.

Earlier this decade (http://www.seattlepi.com/levesque/106471_leve30.shtml), some newspapers quit publishing the logo of the (Cleveland) Indians and the (Washington) Redskins and would not mention team nickname. One of those papers was a local rag, the Lincoln Journal-Star. :smh:

morsdraconis
10-05-2010, 10:56 PM
It's total bullshit but the only people complaining about Indian names are barely fuckin' Indian to begin with (like the cunt that's been bitching about the Redskins name for the past 10 years or some shit). The courts have NEVER held up these lawsuits, yet, to prevent public slandering, teams have folded to these unbelievable idiots. Luckily, the Redskins haven't yet and I hope they never do. It's stupid bullshit with absolutely NO insensitive connotation anymore at all.

JeffHCross
10-05-2010, 11:34 PM
It was two years ago ... this ship has sailed, folks. Yes, the NCAA is politically correct. Most of America is now.

ram29jackson
10-06-2010, 01:28 AM
It was two years ago ... this ship has sailed, folks. Yes, the NCAA is politically correct. Most of America is now.


Haha, theres 120 1A schools and I live on the West coast, so it took me a little while to notice this RECENT change :P.

ship having sailed or not this is still very pathetic.
I could care less about what ever percentage of America may be what ever level of politically correct.

I'm am only concerned with intellectually correct honesty. Saying that an Indian team name or mascot is offensive or harmful to Indian culture is just incredibly dumb on multiple levels. And the fact that institutions of learning are the ones giving in makes it more ridiculous.

Indian team mascot names are practically the last common link to people learning about the tribes etc that earlier lived on this land mass. They are killing their own history by doing this.

I'm not mad,angry or arguing with you jcross. Just typing my thoughts.
This just brings me momentary sadness:(

ram29jackson
10-06-2010, 01:32 AM
That's been my thought on it as well. The effort to be 'sensitive' may backfire in the long run.

Earlier this decade (http://www.seattlepi.com/levesque/106471_leve30.shtml), some newspapers quit publishing the logo of the (Cleveland) Indians and the (Washington) Redskins and would not mention team nickname. One of those papers was a local rag, the Lincoln Journal-Star. :smh:


I would have thought Nebraska Americans had more common sense. I am sad again

CLW
10-06-2010, 12:50 PM
My wife's alma matter (Southeast Missouri State) also had to change its name due to the Indian nickname issue to Redhawks.

Now when the Alumni people call looking to hit up Dr. CLW for a donation, she tells them she will donate when they change the name back to Indians.

steelerfan
10-06-2010, 01:18 PM
my wife's alma matter (southeast missouri state) also had to change its name due to the indian nickname issue to redhawks.

Now when the alumni people call looking to hit up dr. Clw for a donation, she tells them she will donate when they change the name back to indians.


:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d

steelerfan
10-06-2010, 01:19 PM
Most of America is now.

No, most of America is forced to be.

skipwondah33
10-06-2010, 01:47 PM
What was the facination of teams being called Indians anyway? I wonder if there is research that shows more teams used the nickname Indians or reference to, than any other (ex animals, etc)

ram29jackson
10-06-2010, 02:40 PM
..go after the Santa Cruz Banana slugs, not indian / Tribe names

ram29jackson
10-06-2010, 02:41 PM
My wife's alma matter (Southeast Missouri State) also had to change its name due to the Indian nickname issue to Redhawks.

Now when the Alumni people call looking to hit up Dr. CLW for a donation, she tells them she will donate when they change the name back to Indians.



:nod:

JeffHCross
10-06-2010, 08:23 PM
What was the facination of teams being called Indians anyway? I wonder if there is research that shows more teams used the nickname Indians or reference to, than any other (ex animals, etc)It evokes a mental image of a fierce warrior. Same reason Michigan State is the Spartans, USC is the Trojans, etc.

I think CLW will be interested in this:

As World War I ended, Duke's Board of Trustees, then called the "Trinity College Board of Trustees", lifted their quarter century ban of football on campus leading to an interest in naming the athletic teams. The team was then known as the Trinity Eleven, the Blue and White, or the Methodists (as opposed to the Baptists of nearby rival Wake Forest University). Because of the ambiguity, the student newspaper, the Trinity Chronicle (now called The Chronicle) launched a campaign to create a new mascot. Nominations for a new team name included Catamounts, Grizzlies, Badgers, Dreadnaughts, and Captains. The Trinity Chronicle editor narrowed the many nominations down to those that utilized the school colors of dark blue and white. The narrowed list consisted of Blue Titans, Blue Eagles, Polar Bears, Blue Devils, Royal Blazes, and Blue Warriors. None of the nominations proved to be a clear favorite, but the name Blue Devils elicited criticism that could potentially engender opposition on campus. That year, the football season passed with no official selection.

ram29jackson
10-06-2010, 08:40 PM
....Dreadnaughts.....? interesting

we are ships with no fear........:dunno:



yep, allot of teams just used religious names as well back than or skulls and crossbones in front of jerseys.

ram29jackson
10-06-2010, 09:14 PM
Duke is/are the guys in the dark jerseys. Do you suppose thats a really dark blue ?

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/ram29jackson/OLD%20SCHOOL%20FOOTBALL/Aa1DUKE.jpg

cdj
06-12-2012, 10:20 PM
N.D. Vote Lets School Scrap Fighting Sioux Nickname

Voters have approved a measure that lets the University of North Dakota dump its controversial Fighting Sioux nickname.

The vote sends the matter back to the state's Board of Higher Education, which is expected to retire the moniker and American Indian head logo.

The NCAA has deemed the nickname hostile and abusive and has placed the university under postseason sanctions.

Advocates for retiring the nickname say the issue is hurting the athletic department in recruiting and scheduling. Supporters of the name say coaches and administrators are exaggerating the harmful effects and don't believe the NCAA sanctions are a big deal.

The group that collected petitions for the ballot measure has said it will pursue another vote in the fall to make Fighting Sioux part of the state constitution.

Link (http://www.npr.org/2012/06/12/154891999/n-d-vote-lets-school-scrap-fighting-sioux-nickname?ft=1&f=1014&sc=tw)

ram29jackson
06-12-2012, 10:34 PM
N.D. Vote Lets School Scrap Fighting Sioux Nickname

Voters have approved a measure that lets the University of North Dakota dump its controversial Fighting Sioux nickname.

The vote sends the matter back to the state's Board of Higher Education, which is expected to retire the moniker and American Indian head logo.

The NCAA has deemed the nickname hostile and abusive and has placed the university under postseason sanctions.

Advocates for retiring the nickname say the issue is hurting the athletic department in recruiting and scheduling. Supporters of the name say coaches and administrators are exaggerating the harmful effects and don't believe the NCAA sanctions are a big deal.

The group that collected petitions for the ballot measure has said it will pursue another vote in the fall to make Fighting Sioux part of the state constitution.

Link (http://www.npr.org/2012/06/12/154891999/n-d-vote-lets-school-scrap-fighting-sioux-nickname?ft=1&f=1014&sc=tw)

bunch of bullcrap!!!!!!! I thought they already won this case,so to speak ?

contraversial? yeah, sure it is, if you are a liberal pussy .

hurts recruiting ? great, kids are being taught to be dumb asses now. " you have an indian name? I dont think i can go there now? " waahh waahh. So freaking pathetic

cdj
06-12-2012, 10:51 PM
ram, I agree on your point on it being "controversial." That seems to be a buzzword the media puts in on any topic where there is debate or discussion. I can see the differing viewpoints on this issue (though I think they should keep the name), but I wouldn't say it is 'controversial'. They've had the "Sioux" nickname since 1930, for crying out loud. ("Fighting" was added in 1960.) The measure passed 67%-33%.

ram29jackson
06-12-2012, 11:06 PM
ram, I agree on your point on it being "controversial." That seems to be a buzzword the media puts in on any topic where there is debate or discussion. I can see the differing viewpoints on this issue (though I think they should keep the name), but I wouldn't say it is 'controversial'. They've had the "Sioux" nickname since 1930, for crying out loud. ("Fighting" was added in 1960.) The measure passed 67%-33%.

it is the media...well, the parts that are trying to push an agenda anyway.

Ive said this before but SI and others do articles about this and go to reservations and the indians dont give a damn. And they/Indians walk around in Chiefs and Redskins t shirts.
You get rid of Indian mascot names and you help in getting rid of Indian history. Their idea will backfire on them.

morsdraconis
06-13-2012, 01:46 AM
it is the media...well, the parts that are trying to push an agenda anyway.

Ive said this before but SI and others do articles about this and go to reservations and the indians dont give a damn. And they walk around in Cheifs and Redskins t shirts.
You get rid of Indian mascot names and you help in getting rid of Indian history. Their idea will backfire on them.

:+1: x :infinity:

This shit just pisses me off so much. It's utterly retarded that the NCAA is being so politically correct with this shit when every team that has these nicknames are actually sanctioned by group they are representing. Yes, representing.

Total and complete bullshit.

psusnoop
06-13-2012, 07:14 AM
Completely agree Mors. I'm growing tired of hearing about this stuff.

souljahbill
06-13-2012, 07:30 AM
I'm not a fan of Indian names, especially the Redskins. If there were a team called the Blackskins with the head of Shaka Zulu or something, you better believe black people would throw a fit. Same thing for Cleveland. If they were the Cleveland Negros with a caricature of a black person in blackface or something, even I would be offended and I've been called the N word by white people before and was never upset by it (I actually find it amusing that someone would hand me the intellectual advantage over them on a platinum platter like that).

texacotea
06-13-2012, 07:32 AM
Should we lose Cowboys also?

souljahbill
06-13-2012, 07:53 AM
Should we lose Cowboys also?

Kinda different. Cowboys are not a group of defeated people who had their land taken, either through manipulation or violence, and subjugated to live to on the shittiest land in America.

I'm not saying the use of Indian names is right or wrong. If the Seminole people are fine with FSU tomahawk chopping and Chief WhatsHisName spear dropping and all that because it keeps their name relevant, that's fine. They like it, I love. I'm just saying that as another minority group that has a checkered past in this country, I totally understand Natives not wanting to be represented in this fashion. The intention may be to give props and recognition to these people but we all know that its not about intention but about perception.

morsdraconis
06-13-2012, 09:59 AM
I totally understand Natives not wanting to be represented in this fashion. The intention may be to give props and recognition to these people but we all know that its not about intention but about perception.

It's not the Native American people doing this shit. The crazy bitch leading the "fight" against the Redskins name is 1/64th Native American. I'm fuckin' 1/64th Native American and I'm sure as hell NOT a Native American. This shit is ridiculous and it's retarded people just wanting money. NOTHING more.

souljahbill
06-13-2012, 10:19 AM
It's not the Native American people doing this shit. The crazy bitch leading the "fight" against the Redskins name is 1/64th Native American. I'm fuckin' 1/64th Native American and I'm sure as hell NOT a Native American. This shit is ridiculous and it's retarded people just wanting money. NOTHING more.

I'm not familiar with this case but this lady is suing for financial compensation because of the name? If so, that is ridiculous and does every Native American a disservice. Still in all, however, of all the Indian names, Redskins is the worst.

JeffHCross
06-14-2012, 11:34 PM
when every team that has these nicknames are actually sanctioned by group they are representing. Yes, representing.As far as I'm aware, every team that has had the proper nation come out in support of the nickname has been allowed to keep it. And I'll disagree that every team that has (or had) an Indian nickname was representing the nation in question.


Redskins is the worst.Agreed.

morsdraconis
06-15-2012, 10:15 AM
As far as I'm aware, every team that has had the proper nation come out in support of the nickname has been allowed to keep it. And I'll disagree that every team that has (or had) an Indian nickname was representing the nation in question.

Agreed.

The fight song doesn't say "Hail to the Redskins" for nothing ya know...

souljahbill
06-15-2012, 12:48 PM
The fight song doesn't say "Hail to the Redskins" for nothing ya know...

I'm 100% sure the redskins being hailed are the football players and not Native Americans.

ram29jackson
06-15-2012, 03:09 PM
I'm 100% sure the redskins being hailed are the football players and not Native Americans.

thats unimportant.

If they start equating redskins to something like the word nigger to get rid of it, thats fine as long as they keep some form of a indian mascot name to replace it.
N. Dakota's logo is just a indian head. how the hell is that offensive to a group of people?
gee..indians had to live off the fat of the land and protect themselves against other tribes and white men and youre mad for being depicted as savages?
By definition they were savages LOL

most of this started because some woman holds a grudge because as a child, some person made fun of her. Ever since then she has held a grudge and has to get rid of indian team mascot names etc.
She fails to realize that by naming teams indians or any other tribe name, that is the biggest compliment in the world
and is helping in people recognise early american history. If you actually wanted to make fun of something or hated it, why would you name your team after it ?
Syracuse use to be the Orangemen...now theyre just Orange.....
and their rival, Rutgers was the Redmen
St. johns Redmen
Marquette Warriors
....all because of some bitter woman.

Tarhead10
06-15-2012, 04:50 PM
All of this crap is totally ridiculous and just plain stupid... Most Indian tribes are probably proud of the names.. You dont hear the seminoles in florida crying about Florida St bearing there name, hell they have one riding a horse at the beginning of all home games....

JeffHCross
06-15-2012, 09:16 PM
The fight song doesn't say "Hail to the Redskins" for nothing ya know...Please say not serious...


You dont hear the seminoles in florida crying about Florida St bearing there nameWhich is why they're still Seminoles. If the Seminole tribe (and Illini, and others) hadn't come out in support of the school, they would have been required to change their name years ago.

SCClassof93
06-16-2012, 02:46 PM
Still have not found the right NOT to be offended. Why people give complete strangers, much less sport organizations so much power over them to get offended blows me away. Don't like a team name? Find something else to worry about and do with your time.

morsdraconis
06-17-2012, 09:14 PM
Please say not serious...

The name was originally coined by the team to owner their coach, William Henry "Lone Star" Dietz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Henry_Dietz) who was 1/2 Indian (mother was Sioux).

There's a tribe called the Tachi-Yokut tribe that actively voted against their state (California) from voting to eliminate the usage of the word as a mascot name for schools.

Wikipedia fails to mention that one, VERY SMALL, but monetarily loud group is pushing all this bullshit through.

JeffHCross
06-18-2012, 09:17 PM
Alright, misunderstood what you were meaning with quoting the line.

cdj
09-07-2012, 09:22 PM
When the Eastern Michigan University football team takes the field for its home opener this weekend, members of the school marching band will be sporting uniforms emblazoned with two of EMU's former logos, including one the school dropped 21 years ago amid criticism it was demeaning to Native Americans.

The Ypsilanti school will still be the Eagles - the nickname and mascot it adopted in 1991 when ditched the Hurons nickname. But EMU added its Hurons and Normalites logos to the uniforms band members will be wearing for Saturday's game against Illinois State, in the hopes that doing so will foster greater unity among its current and former students, including some who never got over the 1991 change.

"We still have Normalites who went to Michigan State Normal and are alive and wear their Normalite logo with pride," school President Susan Martin said, referring to period from the school's 1849 founding as Michigan State Normal College until 1929, when two students won a school contest by proposing "Hurons" as the new mascot. "We have many, many Hurons who are still Hurons in their heart to this day. And, of course, we have been the Eagles for 20 years.

"It's showing respect to the past but embracing the fact that we are all together under the block E and love Eastern," she told The Detroit News (http://bit.ly/NfTrVJ ).

Critics contend that it's racist and demeaning for schools to use American Indian nicknames and mascots, and for years, the NCAA has been pushing schools to abandon them, threatening sanctions against schools that don't comply or don't get the blessing of the tribe whose name they're using.

Billy Friend, the chief of the Oklahoma-based Wyandotte Nation, a federally recognized band that was once in Michigan and known as Hurons, said the tribe embraces EMU's move.

"Our stance has always been we didn't see it as anything but an honor to the Hurons and Wyandottes," said Friend. "We never saw it as demeaning."

But others criticized EMU's decision.

"I don't like native people being used as mascots in any situation," said American Indian Services Director Fay Givens, who supported the 1991 change.

On Saturday, the band's uniforms will include a cap that has EMU's "Eagles" nickname on the back, and a jacket emblazoned with a large "E" on the front. The two former logos - the Normalite logo is a capital "M" with the word "Normal" inscribed on it - won't be easy to spot, as they appear under the jacket.

Drum major Adam Sniezek, 21, of Dearborn Heights, said he's honored to carry on the school's traditions.

"We're such a united family," Sniezek said. "It's so special we can carry on the traditions of our alma mater."

http://www.cbssports.com/general/story/20093934/emu-brings-back-indian-logo-despite-criticism

ram29jackson
09-09-2012, 02:06 AM
I don't like native people being used as mascots in any situation," said American Indian Services Director Fay Givens, who supported the 1991 change

a moronic statement based on nothing valid

SmoothPancakes
09-09-2012, 03:34 AM
a moronic statement based on nothing valid

As rare as it occurs, I completely agree with you. :D

gigemaggs99
09-09-2012, 07:37 PM
I guess everyone is entitled to their opinions...I grew up watching the likes of the Indians (Cleveland), Washington Redskins, Chicago Blackhawks, etc.. etc...I watched them b/c they played sports, not because they were representing a nation of people. Are you serious? Do you only watch the Houston Rockets b/c your a NASA supporter? Do you Only watch the 49ers b/c you like gold?

Equating a team name with racism or slander is just plain silly. Ask those people that are complaining what a first down is, or what icing is, or anything sports related. They just want to complain, and again it's a free country, let them complain. Change your name just b/c that's silly in my opinion.

Maybe it's the military in me, we are all equal. In the Marine Corps, maybe they do it on purpose, we had 90 guys in my platoon at boot camp, we had almost an equal 1/3 black, white, hispanic mix + asian....notice hispanic and asian are the only red-underlined words, maybe b/c they are also languages....anyways that's besides the point (different tangent)....the point is, we were taught to look after each other as Marines. I can stop a bullet just the same as any other human, it doesn't matter what your skin color is. If you're an American and you like sports, I say cheer for YOUR team no matter what the name. I'd be proud to sport a Chicago Blackhawks hat, I like the team name.

If you wanted to spend all your time fighting stupid battles you could go on a rampage about the Carolina Hurrincanes. Don't hurricanes hurt people, cause massive destruction, aren't they "harmful"....I guess the answer is YES when you're talking about mother-nature but you're talking about a HOCKEY team. Same with the Blackhawks and all others, it's a hockey team, if you want you can spin it and tangent correlate it to the most negative thing in the world, then whine about it and someone somewhere will take you up on the lawsuit...then here we go....

The only people that think things like the Indians are a bad name are people that have nothing but negative thoughts. It's their loss that they think so shallow.

Thanks for listening, just my 2 cents.

SCClassof93
09-10-2012, 06:48 AM
I guess everyone is entitled to their opinions...I grew up watching the likes of the Indians (Cleveland), Washington Redskins, Chicago Blackhawks, etc.. etc...I watched them b/c they played sports, not because they were representing a nation of people. Are you serious? Do you only watch the Houston Rockets b/c your a NASA supporter? Do you Only watch the 49ers b/c you like gold?

Equating a team name with racism or slander is just plain silly. Ask those people that are complaining what a first down is, or what icing is, or anything sports related. They just want to complain, and again it's a free country, let them complain. Change your name just b/c that's silly in my opinion.

Maybe it's the military in me, we are all equal. In the Marine Corps, maybe they do it on purpose, we had 90 guys in my platoon at boot camp, we had almost an equal 1/3 black, white, hispanic mix + asian....notice hispanic and asian are the only red-underlined words, maybe b/c they are also languages....anyways that's besides the point (different tangent)....the point is, we were taught to look after each other as Marines. I can stop a bullet just the same as any other human, it doesn't matter what your skin color is. If you're an American and you like sports, I say cheer for YOUR team no matter what the name. I'd be proud to sport a Chicago Blackhawks hat, I like the team name.

If you wanted to spend all your time fighting stupid battles you could go on a rampage about the Carolina Hurrincanes. Don't hurricanes hurt people, cause massive destruction, aren't they "harmful"....I guess the answer is YES when you're talking about mother-nature but you're talking about a HOCKEY team. Same with the Blackhawks and all others, it's a hockey team, if you want you can spin it and tangent correlate it to the most negative thing in the world, then whine about it and someone somewhere will take you up on the lawsuit...then here we go....

The only people that think things like the Indians are a bad name are people that have nothing but negative thoughts. It's their loss that they think so shallow.

Thanks for listening, just my 2 cents.

+1 Good post. Common sense and liberty have no agenda, but sadly this kind of stuff does;cultural engineering, money and vote buying.

ram29jackson
11-12-2012, 04:06 PM
oohh shut up already.
not football related but...


Victoria's Secret apologizes for Native American-inspired look


http://thelook.today.com/_news/2012/11/12/15113674-victorias-secret-apologizes-for-native-american-inspired-look?lite

bdoughty
11-12-2012, 05:00 PM
http://i.imgur.com/xcSOO.gif

morsdraconis
11-12-2012, 05:01 PM
oohh shut up already.
not football related but...


Victoria's Secret apologizes for Native American-inspired look


http://thelook.today.com/_news/2012/11/12/15113674-victorias-secret-apologizes-for-native-american-inspired-look?lite

:smh:

This fuckin' VERY SMALL MINORITY group representing "native americans" is getting completely out of hand. The bitch that runs the organization is like 1/64th Indian. Fuck her and her COMPLETELY political agendas.

ram29jackson
11-12-2012, 05:26 PM
:smh:

This fuckin' VERY SMALL MINORITY group representing "native americans" is getting completely out of hand. The bitch that runs the organization is like 1/64th Indian. Fuck her and her COMPLETELY political agendas.

1/64 LOL

and something to do with someone insulting her once when she was a little girl.
She's been on the war-path ever since.

ram29jackson
11-12-2012, 05:28 PM
http://i.imgur.com/xcSOO.gif

I pitty the foo' who doesnt like indian squa lingerie

steelerfan
11-12-2012, 05:33 PM
1/64 LOL

and something to do with someone insulting her once when she was a little girl.
She's been on the war-path ever since.

I don't think you can say, "war-path" anymore.

565

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

SCClassof93
11-13-2012, 09:17 AM
I don't think you can say, "war-path" anymore.

565

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

War-path :D

ram29jackson
11-14-2012, 02:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA0bTp677gk

ram29jackson
05-21-2013, 03:47 PM
http://conservativeintel.com/2013/05/15/journalist-disappointed-that-real-indians-arent-offended-about-the-redskins-name/#


The recent wave of left-wing discussion panels calling for the Redskins to change their name seems to have died off, but not everyone has given up hope. Paul Woody of the Richmond Times-Dispatch identifies himself as someone who would like to see it change. To bolster his case, he went and spoke to leaders from three different Virginia tribes of Native Americans.

Give Woody credit for bringing back the results, because none of the Native Americans he spoke to are offended by it.

http://conservativeintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/redskins.png

ram29jackson
07-03-2013, 05:45 PM
old school logos I found here
http://logoshak.com/~asgsport/shak.html

http://imageshack.us/a/img560/7533/c0j.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/560/c0j.gif/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)http://imageshack.us/a/img542/5641/1qr.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/542/1qr.gif/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

ram29jackson
09-11-2013, 11:20 PM
oh shut up

http://ictmncdn1.tgpstage1.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_header_image/public/article_media/nepean-redskins-feat.jpg


http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/09/03/deejay-ndn-files-human-rights-complaint-against-redskins-football-team-151134



Am I a Redskin?" his daughter asked.

Campeau is better known as Deejay NDN, member of and frequent spokesman for Canadian electronic dance music act A Tribe Called Red. The complaint is directed at the Nepean Redskins, an Ottawa, Ontario-based organization that fields club football teams for youth players who are nine to 19 years of age.

"The players call each other 'redskins' on the field," Campeau said. "How are they going to differentiate the playing field from the school yard? What's going to stop them from calling my daughter a redskin in the school yard? That's as offensive as using the n-word."

Assembly of First Nations National Chief Shawn Atleo has voiced his support for Campeau's move. "I support this action because the term 'redskins' is offensive and hurtful and completely inappropriate," he said, according to a Canada Newswire report. "First Nations are too often exposed to racism and discrimination and I do not want to see any young Indigenous child hurt because their peers use this term in the mistaken belief that it is acceptable. This complaint to the Human Rights Tribunal speaks to the broader need for greater public awareness, education and understanding about First Nations people and our shared history and priorities. Our preference always is to work together to reach respectful outcomes and it is unfortunate that this step must be taken as a last resort. It is time to banish the term 'redskins.'"

Campeau has waged a steady campaign against the Nepean club's name from his @deejayndn Twitter account, and has proposed a plan to change the name without inconveniencing the team. "I've offered to volunteer DJ and to help raise funds to offset costs, as have other artists and musicians, as the uniforms have to be replaced every year or two anyway," he said. "I've proposed many different options to change this offensive, hurtful and non-inclusive situation. It's


Read more at http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/09/03/deejay-ndn-files-human-rights-complaint-against-redskins-football-team-151134

cdj
09-23-2013, 09:09 PM
I'm not sure how many of you read Uni-Watch, but they have been hardcore advocates for the removal of the Redskins moniker - if not all references to Indians/Native Americans.

Buried in today's "Redskins Watch," it mentions where the idea to change Washington's R helmet logo to that of an Indian profile:

"According to a placard that Tommy Turner saw at FedEx Field, the idea of changing the ’Skins helmet logo from an “R” to an Indian profile in 1971 came from the President of the National Congress of American Indians (http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3688/9878175523_83b3f75edf_z.jpg)."

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3688/9878175523_83b3f75edf_z.jpg

psuexv
09-23-2013, 10:08 PM
I'm not sure how many of you read Uni-Watch, but they have been hardcore advocates for the removal of the Redskins moniker - if not all references to Indians/Native Americans.

Buried in today's "Redskins Watch," it mentions where the idea to change Washington's R helmet logo to that of an Indian profile:

"According to a placard that Tommy Turner saw at FedEx Field, the idea of changing the ’Skins helmet logo from an “R” to an Indian profile in 1971 came from the President of the National Congress of American Indians (http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3688/9878175523_83b3f75edf_z.jpg)."

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3688/9878175523_83b3f75edf_z.jpg

:smh: insensitive bastards

ram29jackson
09-23-2013, 10:27 PM
:) damn right !!!!!!!!!

Walter
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/helenair.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/83/e83f28c6-b322-56e4-b159-a618f75a4ad5/e83f28c6-b322-56e4-b159-a618f75a4ad5.preview-300.jpg

it was an indian who asked for an indian head in the first place !!!!!!


uni watch needs to change how it puts its stories in et. Its so messy and hard to find anything

ram29jackson
10-01-2013, 05:28 PM
so um, why aren't the Indians mad at the State of Oklahoma ?


Oklahoma is based on Choctaw Indian words which translate as red people (okla meaning "people" and humma meaning "red"). Recorded history for the name "Oklahoma" began with Spanish explorer Coronado in 1541 on his quest for the "Lost City of Gold." Oklahoma became the 46th state on November 16, 1907.

http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/Oklahoma/Oklahomanameorigin.html

ram29jackson
10-01-2013, 05:50 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9689220/redskins-name-change-not-easy-sounds

I just don't quite know how to tell my father-in-law, a Blackfeet Indian. He owns a steak restaurant on the reservation near Browning, Mont. He has a hard time seeing the slap-in-the-face part.

"The whole issue is so silly to me," says Bob Burns, my wife's father and a bundle holder in the Blackfeet tribe. "The name just doesn't bother me much. It's an issue that shouldn't be an issue, not with all the problems we've got in this country."

And I definitely don't know how I'll tell the athletes at Wellpinit (Wash.) High School -- where the student body is 91.2 percent Native American -- that the "Redskins" name they wear proudly across their chests is insulting them. Because they have no idea.

"I've talked to our students, our parents and our community about this and nobody finds any offense at all in it," says Tim Ames, the superintendent of Wellpinit schools. "'Redskins' is not an insult to our kids. 'Wagon burners' is an insult. 'Prairie n-----s' is an insult. Those are very upsetting to our kids. But 'Redskins' is an honorable name we wear with pride. … In fact, I'd like to see somebody come up here and try to change it."

Boy, you try to help some people …

steelerfan
10-01-2013, 05:54 PM
so um, why aren't the Indians mad at the State of Oklahoma ?

http://www.nigc.gov/Reading_Room/List_and_Location_of_Tribal_Gaming_Operations.aspx

ram29jackson
10-02-2013, 03:20 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/rick-reilly-go-fish/post/_/id/1272/rick-reilly-mailbag-sept-25-2013

My inbox flowed red this week after my column on the flap over the Washington Redskins name. You’d have thought I shot a boxful of kittens. Or saved a boxful. Some thought I should be fired. Some thought I should be elected. Some called me racist. Some thanked me for honoring a race.

I still don’t know whether “redskin” is a racist term, I just know that on many Native American reservations, they don’t think so. Three reservation high schools I spoke with, in fact, use “Redskins” as their team name and wear it with pride.

This whole Redskins thing is an exposed nerve. It triggers passion on every topic from race relations to political correctness. Everybody and their cabbie seems to want to weigh in on it, sometimes like anvils through bay windows.

I’ve even felt strongly both ways. In 1991, for Sports Illustrated, I wrote that it was time to change the name. But in the 22 years since, I’ve grown to understand that it’s not up to me. It should be an issue decided by Native Americans, not this sudden wave of almost entirely white, politically correct sports writers.

For some of you, if even one person is insulted, that’s enough to dump it. For others, it’s a non-issue that only smokescreens so many real problems Native Americans have. For still others, it’s just further proof that I should bathe in quicksand

CLW
10-08-2013, 05:30 PM
Obama weighs in and says everyone against these name changes are a bunch of racists bastards that should have voted for Romney.

Redskins respond:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2013/10/06/obama-washington-redskins-football-lanny-j-davis/2931859/

ram29jackson
10-08-2013, 07:01 PM
Obama weighs in and says everyone against these name changes are a bunch of racists bastards that should have voted for Romney.

Redskins respond:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2013/10/06/obama-washington-redskins-football-lanny-j-davis/2931859/

all he said was the words- I would THINK about changing it- and of course that translated to ;he supports that the name should be changed. He was just kissing up to his fan base without really saying anything and he cant get re-elected so who cares?

ram29jackson
10-09-2013, 07:05 PM
Dan Snyder says "Kiss my tomahawk"

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9797628/dan-snyder-defends-washington-redskins-name

morsdraconis
10-09-2013, 07:54 PM
It's as simple as this, if the NFL and this bullshit VERY SMALL but INCREDIBLY STUPIDLY VOCAL MINORITY makes the Redskins change their mascot and team nickname, I will not watch a second more of NFL football, ever.

And, for the facts, I DON'T GIVE A SHIT if this stupid vocal minority thinks it's offensive. I DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM. WE DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM. Every year we celebrate Columbus Day is another year that we don't give A FLYING FUCK about Indians, their ancestors, their fuckin' customs, or any of that shit. It's all bullshit and I'm just fuckin' sick of it all.

Deuce
10-09-2013, 08:09 PM
In this day and age the redskins are just screwed. There is no way for the team to keep their name. It's not going to go away and more and more people are going to jump on the 'change the name bandwagon'. Snyder should just change the name to the Washington Vanillas...but then people who like chocolate will bitch. :fp:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

steelerfan
10-10-2013, 03:01 AM
In this day and age the redskins are just screwed. There is no way for the team to keep their name. It's not going to go away and more and more people are going to jump on the 'change the name bandwagon'. Snyder should just change the name to the Washington Vanillas...but then people who like chocolate will bitch. :fp:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

Why it gotta be Vanilla?

CLW
10-10-2013, 07:03 AM
Why it gotta be Vanilla?

b/c Deuce is racist. :nod:

steelerfan
10-10-2013, 07:34 AM
b/c Deuce is racist. :nod:

Agreed.

I vote that we unofficially (of course) petition the Washington Redskins to refrain from changing their name to the Washington Vanillas,

morsdraconis
10-10-2013, 08:12 AM
:D

Deuce
10-10-2013, 09:33 AM
Cracker ass crackers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

souljahbill
10-10-2013, 10:24 AM
Cracker ass crackers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

The Washington Crackers

Deuce
10-10-2013, 01:13 PM
The Washington Crackers

:D


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

ram29jackson
10-10-2013, 01:34 PM
http://www.teamjimmyjoe.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/New-Redskins-Logo.jpg

ram29jackson
10-15-2013, 01:55 PM
http://wtvr.com/2013/10/14/virginia-tribes-with-unusual-reaction-to-redskins-name-controversy/



The Cheroenhaka Tribe, derived from the Iroquois Indians, is one of 11 tribes recognized by the Commonwealth of Virginia, however they have never received federal recognition.

“Why would my president say that (Redskins) is offensive to him?” Brown argues. “What’s offensive to me is that we have 11 state recognized tribes and he hasn’t done one thing to get those tribes federally recognized, but the tribes out west are federally recognized. We were the ones who had first ethno-historic contact with the colonials.”

Brown was an outspoken critic in 2007, when the NCAA ruled that The College of William & Mary had to get rid of their logo that included two tribal feathers. The college appealed the decision, but was denied.

Brown, whose daughter attended William & Mary, says he was upset by the decision because the college was one of the first U.S. schools to educate Native Americans.

“I had no problem with it, because it’s part of my history,” Brown says. “ When you take away my history, you take away my people.”

morsdraconis
10-15-2013, 07:52 PM
And, yet again, the REAL Indians are pissed that these things are changing, yet the 1/16th fakers are the ones that are making a big stink about it because they see $$$ in their eyes instead of actually giving a shit about it for their "people".

SmoothPancakes
10-15-2013, 08:10 PM
And, yet again, the REAL Indians are pissed that these things are changing, yet the 1/16th fakers are the ones that are making a big stink about it because they see $$$ in their eyes instead of actually giving a shit about it for their "people".

That sounds about right to me.

ram29jackson
10-18-2013, 09:29 PM
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/hail-to-the-redskins-nfl-must-save-name-image-legacy/25861/


It was common at the time for teams in the upstart NFL to adopt the names of the more established local baseball teams, especially since the baseball clubs often hosted the NFL teams’ home games.
•Chicago was home to baseball’s Cubs. So combative George Halas one-upped them and renamed his young team the Bears in 1922.
•New York City in the 1920s was home to three baseball teams, including the National League Giants. The Mara family adopted the name Giants when they founded their NFL franchise in 1925. Both teams played in the same famed Polo Grounds.
•The NFL’s Pittsburgh Steelers began life as the Pittsburgh Pirates in 1933.

The new NFL team in Boston in 1932 followed that tradition when it adopted the same name, same red color scheme and same feathered Indian head logo of Saint Tammany, while playing in the same Braves Field.

The Boston Football Braves lasted only one year. They moved to Fenway Park, the home of the American League’s Red Sox, the following season.

The young NFL franchise suddenly faced a branding conundrum, an indentity crisis.

They could no longer keep the name Braves. Yet they wanted to continue the tradition of red in the Boston uniform, now dating across two sports, three sports leagues and more than five decades. They wanted to keep alive the franchise’s Native American heritage and image. And they wanted to pay tribute to their new home-field hosts, the Red Sox.

The name Redskins was a perfect fit on every front: tradition, history, patriotism, home-team tribute and even color scheme. It also afforded the franchise an opportunity keep alive the distinctive Tammany Hall Indian head logo. (You can see the evolution of Redskins logos here at Chris Creamer's SportsLogos.net.)

Hell, the name Redskins was not just perfect. It was brilliant. The name was seen at the time (and is still seen by the American public in general and the Native American community in particular) as all sports names are seen: as a tribute, not an insult.

Critics of the Redskins name routinely point out that team owner George Preston Marshall was a racist. Evidence seems to indicate he was. And they use this fact as the foundation of their belief that the name Redskins must also be racist. But as a friend posted on Facebook: "Someone please tell me a SINGLE good reason a team would select a derogatory name to call themselves. There isn't, they didn't, get over it."

Boston didn’t quite work out for the team, of course. Marshall moved the franchise to Washington D.C. before the 1937 season. They drafted an amazing ballplayer out of TCU that year named Sammy Baugh, the Pigskin Messiah.

The Redskins won the NFL championship that very same 1937 season and began a long, storied history in the nation’s capital – a history under assault right now.

The Redskins are the only team in the nation's most popular sport that pays tribute to the original Americans and to the history and spirit of a forgotten figure in our national history. It's a tribute everytime the Redskins take the field to a “sainted” Native American holy man beloved by the young nation in our struggling early days.

It’s only fitting that the Redskins play today it in the nation’s capital, in the city named for the Father of His Country: the words Washington Redskins joined side by side, much the way Americans saw themselves at the nation’s founding, a unique blend of transplanted European and native American forging a new culture and a new kind of nation on the world stage.

It's important that Americans rally to support the Redskins, to keep this legacy alive.

Hell, if we change the name of the Redskins, we might as well change the name of Washington D.C.

ram29jackson
10-18-2013, 09:30 PM
https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmsports/peter-king-and-chris-russo

Escobar
10-25-2013, 03:22 PM
It’s only fitting that the Redskins play today it in the nation’s capital, in the city named for the Father of His Country: the words Washington Redskins joined side by side, much the way Americans saw themselves at the nation’s founding, a unique blend of transplanted European and native American forging a new culture and a new kind of nation on the world stage.

This is the part that makes me laugh. Chief Tamanend helped establish peace in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (not very close to Boston). The American nation was forged basically by saying this is our land now, you can go fuck yourselves. How can you honor a society/culture by calling them a derogatory term??? I can understand the other teams not changing their names, because they are named after actual tribes (Illini, Seminoles, Chippewas), but the Redskins is a derogatory term for Native Americans. If they really wanted to honor Chief Tamanend (not Tammany Hall as the article suggests. Tammany Hall was a political regime that arose in New York City), why didn't they name their team "Lenni-Lenape" after his tribe. Both sides are using misinformation to push their agenda.

I am going to create a team with the name (Peckerwoods, Sambos, or Chinks) with their respective logos and watch how many complaints or requests to change the logo I receive...funny I found this during my research (Chink(U.S.) a derogatory term used towards people of perceived Asian descent. Until the 1980s a U.S. school used the term as a sports mascot.)

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110712232558/characters/images/5/59/WoodyWoodpecker.jpghttp://www.gamasutra.com/db_area/images/feature/4140/bogost_2.jpghttp://www.jaehakim.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Chink-in-armor-300x3001.png

ram29jackson
10-25-2013, 08:26 PM
This is the part that makes me laugh. Chief Tamanend helped establish peace in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (not very close to Boston). The American nation was forged basically by saying this is our land now, you can go fuck yourselves. How can you honor a society/culture by calling them a derogatory term??? I can understand the other teams not changing their names, because they are named after actual tribes (Illini, Seminoles, Chippewas), but the Redskins is a derogatory term for Native Americans. If they really wanted to honor Chief Tamanend (not Tammany Hall as the article suggests. Tammany Hall was a political regime that arose in New York City), why didn't they name their team "Lenni-Lenape" after his tribe. Both sides are using misinformation to push their agenda.

I am going to create a team with the name (Peckerwoods, Sambos, or Chinks) with their respective logos and watch how many complaints or requests to change the logo I receive...funny I found this during my research (Chink(U.S.) a derogatory term used towards people of perceived Asian descent. Until the 1980s a U.S. school used the term as a sports mascot.)

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110712232558/characters/images/5/59/WoodyWoodpecker.jpghttp://www.gamasutra.com/db_area/images/feature/4140/bogost_2.jpghttp://www.jaehakim.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Chink-in-armor-300x3001.png

there is absolutely no proof anywhere that Redskins is a widely used and abused negative term of any kind. You cant get Indians to agree on it so it must not be a big deal.

souljahbill
10-25-2013, 10:58 PM
You cant get Indians to agree on it so it must not be a big deal.

Calling me the N word doesn't offend me but it's still offensive.

And I doubt anyone hanging out with or talking to a Native would call them a "Redskin."

ram29jackson
10-25-2013, 11:22 PM
Calling me the N word doesn't offend me but it's still offensive.

And I doubt anyone hanging out with or talking to a Native would call them a "Redskin."

just because its a term that sounds stupid to someone doesn't mean its some tragic ,angry racist term. I can walk into a mall and yell Redskins !! and nothing is going to happen to me :D and no one is going to care.

souljahbill
10-25-2013, 11:49 PM
just because its a term that sounds stupid to someone doesn't mean its some tragic ,angry racist term. I can walk into a mall and yell Redskins !! and nothing is going to happen to me :D and no one is going to care.

I don't care if you call a bunch of non-Natives Redskins. Go up to an actual native and say, "What up, Redskin?" If it doesn't faze them, good. If they look irritated, just say, "Don't be offended by that name. It's a tribute to your heritage." Hopefully you'll get lucky and the guy won't punch you in the face.

bdoughty
10-26-2013, 12:22 AM
just because its a term that sounds stupid to someone doesn't mean its some tragic ,angry racist term. I can walk into a mall and yell Redskins !! and nothing is going to happen to me :D and no one is going to care.

Try that at an Indian casino or a reservation. Then get back to us with the results.

P.S. How about removing large pictures from quotes.

ram29jackson
10-26-2013, 01:00 PM
I don't care if you call a bunch of non-Natives Redskins. Go up to an actual native and say, "What up, Redskin?" If it doesn't faze them, good. If they look irritated, just say, "Don't be offended by that name. It's a tribute to your heritage." Hopefully you'll get lucky and the guy won't punch you in the face.


Try that at an Indian casino or a reservation. Then get back to us with the results.

P.S. How about removing large pictures from quotes.


still not the same like I already stated. there are high schools near indian reservations that use the nickname so how the hell can you be offended being called one ? and if anyone is offended it wouldn't be any more of a problem then calling someone "hey dumb fuck" to their face. But it wouldn't/cant be equated to some " oohhh so many years of hate and oppression from you evil white devil"

souljahbill
10-26-2013, 01:39 PM
still not the same like I already stated. there are high schools near indian reservations that use the nickname so how the hell can you be offended being called one ? and if anyone is offended it wouldn't be any more of a problem then calling someone "hey dumb fuck" to their face. But it wouldn't/cant be equated to some " oohhh so many years of hate and oppression from you evil white devil"

Like me and bdoughty said, put your money where your mouth is. Go around calling Natives "Redskins" since they don't care and let us know the results.

bdoughty
10-26-2013, 03:36 PM
Like me and bdoughty said, put your money where your mouth is. Go around calling Natives "Redskins" since they don't care and let us know the results.

He does not get it. Comparing a High School with the Redskin name versus actually calling an Indian a "Redskin" is yet another horrible example. Here is a tip for you Ram, words themselves are not offensive, the nature in which they are used can make them offensive. I am pretty sure most teams did not come up with Redskin as a mascot to be offensive. That said, the word has been used in a negative connotation far more often than you allow yourself to think.

ram29jackson
10-27-2013, 02:54 PM
He does not get it. Comparing a High School with the Redskin name versus actually calling an Indian a "Redskin" is yet another horrible example. Here is a tip for you Ram, words themselves are not offensive, the nature in which they are used can make them offensive. I am pretty sure most teams did not come up with Redskin as a mascot to be offensive. That said, the word has been used in a negative connotation far more often than you allow yourself to think.

you cant have it both ways. Its either a problem or it isn't. And since Indians name their team Redskins it means its not a problem.

bdoughty
10-27-2013, 06:35 PM
you cant have it both ways. Its either a problem or it isn't. And since Indians name their team Redskins it means its not a problem.

You can have it both ways, had you taken the time to read what you quoted.

Look Ram, it is a black man with a Confederate flag (http://gawker.com/heres-the-flag-crazy-senate-intern-email-everyone-in-d-816714302). Since a black man fought to have this in his dorm, it means it is not a problem.

http://i.imgur.com/ztX8Nfq.jpg


Look Ram, this Jewish Female was a Nazi Collaborator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stella_K%C3%BCbler). Since a Jewish person captured other Jewish people for the Nazi party, it means it is not a problem. Now we can have swastika in Teambuilder. You can get to making the Heil Hitler team you have long dreamed of.

http://i.imgur.com/KywspaG.jpg

souljahbill
10-27-2013, 08:48 PM
you cant have it both ways. Its either a problem or it isn't. And since Indians name their team Redskins it means its not a problem.

:fp:

Black people call each other the N word ALL THE TIME so CLEARLY it must not a problem by your logic. Feel free to start dropping the N word around black people. If someone raises a fuss, be sure to tell them that they can't have it both ways. I'm sure they'll understand.

cdj
10-27-2013, 11:17 PM
I can see where some might think the name/logo is culturally insensitive (I personally disagree, but to each their own), but the actual history and reason for the name and logo seem to get ignored everywhere in this debate.

Was the term "Redskin" not offensive in 1933 to Lone Star Dietz? (I know his history is shady, but at the time I don't think that was even on the radar.) Was it not offensive in 1971 to Walter Wetzel when he pressured the franchise to change from the R logo back to the the head of an Indian chief? My experience has been that insults toward Indians are usually not skin-related, but typically with some stereotypes (that the football team does NOT perpetuate, BTW).

What really gets me is how the debate is for the name/logo to be completely changed. In this era of "teachable moments," why isn't the call for the team (& society) to increase awareness of Indian/Native American history? It sure seems like the ultimate endgame (intended or otherwise) is to get them out of sight, out of mind and forget their history. Though, I can see why federal politicians might want that, but not the average citizen.

bdoughty
10-28-2013, 12:34 AM
I can see where some might think the name/logo is culturally insensitive (I personally disagree, but to each their own), but the actual history and reason for the name and logo seem to get ignored everywhere in this debate.

Was the term "Redskin" not offensive in 1933 to Lone Star Dietz? (I know his history is shady, but at the time I don't think that was even on the radar.) Was it not offensive in 1971 to Walter Wetzel when he pressured the franchise to change from the R logo back to the the head of an Indian chief? My experience has been that insults toward Indians are usually not skin-related, but typically with some stereotypes (that the football team does NOT perpetuate, BTW).

What really gets me is how the debate is for the name/logo to be completely changed. In this era of "teachable moments," why isn't the call for the team (& society) to increase awareness of Indian/Native American history? It sure seems like the ultimate endgame (intended or otherwise) is to get them out of sight, out of mind and forget their history. Though, I can see why federal politicians might want that, but not the average citizen.


Just for the record, I am fine with the Redskins, the name and logo in this case was not meant as a slur. What I am not fine with are people like RAM who can only see things one way and have blinders on or the generally left leaning pasty-white PC crowd jumping in on the issue because they think being white means you should feel guilty for being born that way. Also throw in politicians, because they generally suck and lawyers as they like to muddy the waters.

We can't sit here on a message board and try to assume what every Native American thinks about the term since the very minute the White Man stepped on what is now American soil. The few Natives I know probably would not care wold not care one way or the other (in regards to the Washington Redskins), they have bigger worries. They probably would not take very kindly to being called one by a stranger. Context is the key, pretty simple stuff.

Once again I would only ask that if you do not think "Redskin" is offensive or culturally insensitive, go find a few Natives and call them one. It is like the Pepsi/Coke challenge, only with people throwing fists at your face instead of a delicious Coke or Pepsi.

Context.

cdj
10-28-2013, 07:44 AM
Just for the record, I am fine with the Redskins, the name and logo in this case was not meant as a slur. What I am not fine with are people like RAM who can only see things one way and have blinders on or the generally left leaning pasty-white PC crowd jumping in on the issue because they think being white means you should feel guilty for being born that way. Also throw in politicians, because they generally suck and lawyers as they like to muddy the waters.

We can't sit here on a message board and try to assume what every Native American thinks about the term since the very minute the White Man stepped on what is now American soil. The few Natives I know probably would not care wold not care one way or the other (in regards to the Washington Redskins), they have bigger worries. They probably would not take very kindly to being called one by a stranger. Context is the key, pretty simple stuff.

Once again I would only ask that if you do not think "Redskin" is offensive or culturally insensitive, go find a few Natives and call them one. It is like the Pepsi/Coke challenge, only with people throwing fists at your face instead of a delicious Coke or Pepsi.

Context.

I don't know if I completely agree with that. Are you saying Indians are easily offended and always ready to engage in a fight? Isn't that an unfair stereotype? :o ;) We have to be careful in assuming how people will react.

I would defer to an earlier article posted in this thread:

Walt “Red Hawk” Brown, chief of Virginia’s Cheroenhaka Nottoway Tribe, says he embraces Native American symbols and words being incorporated into this country’s social fabric and doesn’t find the term “Redskins” offensive.

“It doesn’t refer to me as a native person,” Brown says, “It refers to the players.”

The team name isn't saying we should call Native Americans "Redskins." AFAIK, it was a name/term used by Native Americans and borrowed/used/whatever by a football team when it changed cities to try and honor/recognize/remember Indians. Again, it goes back to their history and an opportunity to highlight that history potentially being thrown away.

I see where the "call them it to their face" argument comes from, but I also think it is a strawman. As far as we know, the name wasn't picked in an attempt to make that the primary terminology for Native Americans, so why make that the new argument?



Back to that article though:

While Brown acknowledges that the Redskins name could be considered offensive, particularly by Western and Canadian tribes, he says he considers the Redskins name an honor- not a slur.

“It’s a great honor,” Brown says.

I'd be interested in knowing why he thinks a couple specific tribes might find it offensive and why he does not at all. Getting that kind of journalism isn't easy, however.

bdoughty
10-28-2013, 09:13 AM
I don't know if I completely agree with that. Are you saying Indians are easily offended and always ready to engage in a fight? Isn't that an unfair stereotype? :o ;) We have to be careful in assuming how people will react.

The only way to know would be to test the theory and I know that is not something I would attempt.

souljahbill
10-28-2013, 12:51 PM
The main problem, as far as I can tell, it that this country has a long history with racism. One that is still prevalent today. If the team were the Washington Indians, Washington Tribe or the Washington Natives, I don't think anyone would have a probably with that. Now, I know that it's not meant to be a racist term but it does seem derogatory so why bother having a name that's questionable? Tribe or Natives seems to be a LOT more honorable to the people and culture than Redskins. Perception becomes reality in the court of public opinion so while Redskins may not be intentionally offensive, it definitely can sound offensive.

Years ago, it was ok to call people midgets and retarded. Not all people were using those words to offend but they were taken to be offensive. Now we don't use them. While I do agree that the US is WAAAAY more PC than it should be, I do believe that being PC has brought about a certain amount of civility that was absent in respect to people that were/are different.

ram29jackson
10-28-2013, 04:03 PM
You can have it both ways, had you taken the time to read what you quoted.

Look Ram, it is a black man with a Confederate flag (http://gawker.com/heres-the-flag-crazy-senate-intern-email-everyone-in-d-816714302). Since a black man fought to have this in his dorm, it means it is not a problem.

http://i.imgur.com/ztX8Nfq.jpg


Look Ram, this Jewish Female was a Nazi Collaborator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stella_K%C3%BCbler). Since a Jewish person captured other Jewish people for the Nazi party, it means it is not a problem. Now we can have swastika in Teambuilder. You can get to making the Heil Hitler team you have long dreamed of.

http://i.imgur.com/KywspaG.jpg

using individuals from cheesy internet news stories does not compare to multiple entire tribes not having a problem with a mascot/nickname.High school and college kids get off on shock value and trying to be cool in any way they can. LOL Its a bad individual example.

LOL and talking about a Nazi sympathizer doesn't have crap to do with this topic either.

nothing Ive said is one sided. When you quote an Indian/indians not having a problem with the name, that covers both sides. Quoting a white liberal who has a problem with the name is what would be considered one sided.

ram29jackson
10-28-2013, 04:43 PM
:fp:

Black people call each other the N word ALL THE TIME so CLEARLY it must not a problem by your logic. Feel free to start dropping the N word around black people. If someone raises a fuss, be sure to tell them that they can't have it both ways. I'm sure they'll understand.


it must in fact clearly not be a problem anymore when black people can use it with each other. That's right, you still cant have it both ways.
what this tells me its ok to be a hypocrite. This is in fact the ultimate in hypocrisy. The fact is, like I already stated, the N word doesn't even compare to Redskins. So...I cant go to one of those high school football games and yell " Go Redskins" because I'm white LOL.

bdoughty
10-28-2013, 08:20 PM
The fact is, like I already stated, the N word doesn't even compare to Redskins. So...I cant go to one of those high school football games and yell " Go Redskins" because I'm white LOL.

Your have to be kidding me, you can't even comprehend the difference between yelling "Go Redskin" at that HS Football game and walking up to a Native American and saying "Hey Redskin."

http://i.imgur.com/UmbXnnQ.jpg

souljahbill
10-28-2013, 08:52 PM
Your have to be kidding me, you can't even comprehend the difference between yelling "Go Redskin" at that HS Football game and walking up to a Native American and saying "Hey Redskin."

http://i.imgur.com/UmbXnnQ.jpg

Do as I did. Just quit and pray there are no little Rams running around.

bdoughty
10-28-2013, 09:02 PM
Do as I did. Just quit and pray there are no little Rams running around.

I pray there are no little kids running around the neighborhood where he lives.

souljahbill
10-28-2013, 09:12 PM
I pray there are no little kids running around the neighborhood where he lives.

I was thinking more along the lines of his house specifically. More minds that'll follow that "higher order of thinking" that we, mere mortals, can't comprehend.

ram29jackson
10-28-2013, 10:05 PM
Your have to be kidding me, you can't even comprehend the difference between yelling "Go Redskin" at that HS Football game and walking up to a Native American and saying "Hey Redskin."

http://i.imgur.com/UmbXnnQ.jpg

no, I can comprehend the difference. The problem for you is that its not a valid argument against anything.

bdoughty
10-28-2013, 11:02 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of his house specifically. More minds that'll follow that "higher order of thinking" that we, mere mortals, can't comprehend.

I can't comprehend RAM having sex with a female. Especially based on his personal DAY Z Video Channel

A little NSFW, thanks RAM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnSbRxcdiPs

Escobar
10-28-2013, 11:50 PM
Ram where did you grow up, because you seem to not have been exposed to any type of multicultural experiences. And I'll take my dad's aunt and uncle (100% Blackfoot Cherokee) as Native Americans who were not too fond of being called Redskins. It's probably less offensive as calling Native American's injuns, but similar to having the team called the Washington Scalpers. Although, I think the main problem now is more the use of the logo than the team name. They were forced to change the helmet logo to an arrow a while back, then all of a sudden were allowed to use the face logo again. Can't remember why though.

CDJ, I think the reason the West and Canadian tribes might have a problem with the name more than the Eastern tribes may be, because the Western and Canadian tribes interaction with white people came later in time, so more hostility might have arisen between the two cultures. Or them being forced to move off their land a la the "Trail of Tears". The same reason why there seems to be (although less recently) a different reaction toward whites from blacks in the south, and blacks in the north. The blacks in the south had to historically deal with more trouble/discrimination/harsh racism than the blacks in the north.

ram29jackson
10-29-2013, 03:04 PM
what ever? Something will or wont happen tomorrow...

SCClassof93
10-30-2013, 08:37 AM
what ever? Something will or wont happen tomorrow...

http://img.pandawhale.com/52417-Godfather-confused-gif-3Bw2.gif

SCClassof93
10-30-2013, 08:43 AM
Just to weigh in......racist/racism is the most ignorantly misused word(s) in America. We have had/have an issue with bigotry not racism. (I am well aware that many may indeed think that their race is superior genetically to others - racism. Most however just don't like/hate those that are different - bigotry)

On the issue of the Redskins......find it offensive? Don't watch them. Just like anything else do not partake and vote with your money. However, forcing private entities/individuals to comply with your hurt feeling (even if correct) is not liberty.

steelerfan
10-30-2013, 09:51 AM
think that their race is superior genetically to others - racism

don't like/hate those that are different - bigotry

Fuck! All this time I thought I was just a bigot. :(

SCClassof93
10-30-2013, 09:55 AM
Fuck! All this time I thought I was just a bigot. :(

http://weirdlywiredworld.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/good-question-thats-racist.png

ram29jackson
10-30-2013, 01:42 PM
hehehehehahahaha

ram29jackson
10-30-2013, 04:10 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9903563/oneida-nation-meets-nfl-leadership-seek-washington-redskins-name-mascot-change

Goodell wasn't even at the meeting. He's busy

souljahbill
10-30-2013, 06:14 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9903563/oneida-nation-meets-nfl-leadership-seek-washington-redskins-name-mascot-change

Goodell wasn't even at the meeting. He's busy

Wow! You mean there are Natives who find a mascot name offensive and not a tribute to their heritage? Whodathunkit?

bdoughty
10-30-2013, 06:43 PM
Wow! You mean there are Natives who find a mascot name offensive and not a tribute to their heritage? Whodathunkit?


Do as I did. Just quit and pray there are no little Rams running around.

If you speak about it, he will come.

ram29jackson
11-02-2013, 02:01 PM
NFL will meet with Oneida Indian who backs Redskins name
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/11/01/oneida-indian-nfl-washington-redskins/3354339/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+UsatodaycomNfl-TopStories+%28USATODAY+-+NFL+Top+Stories%29


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD_wXgWzTgQ&feature=youtu.be

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/30/anti-redskins-activist-confronted-by-tribe-advocate-at-press-conference/



The Daily Caller previously reported that Halbritter, a 1/4 Indian and Obama crony, is not a legitimate member of the Oneida Indian Nation, according to U.S. Census rolls and geneological documents.

“I asked him, ‘how are you qualified to be a spokesperson for the Native American people? You’re talking about civil rights and you’re throwing away my client’s civil rights,”" Assemblywoman Claudia Tenney told The Daily Caller.

Tenney’s legal client Melvin Phillips, 76, is a full-blooded Oneida who will be evicted from his ancestral land if a deal struck between Halbritter, New York governor Andrew Cuomo, and a New York Oneida County executive goes through. Halbritter previously evicted his own aunt Maisie, who opposed his tribal leadership.


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/30/anti-redskins-activist-confronted-by-tribe-advocate-at-press-conference/#ixzz2jW4s8rgw

souljahbill
11-07-2013, 05:07 AM
Same concept, different group of people. And guess what, the people being "honored" find it kinda offensive.

Click me (http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/07/us/california-arab-team-mascot/index.html)

morsdraconis
11-07-2013, 06:15 AM
You know why the Seminole tribe doesn't have an issue with Florida State doing all the WAY more offensive stuff in their name than any other indian based sports team does? Because Florida State fuckin' PAYS them and gives people of their tribe free scholarships to their university. Funny how a few million dollars occasionally can make things not so offensive anymore.

gschwendt
11-07-2013, 07:36 AM
Same concept, different group of people. And guess what, the people being "honored" find it kinda offensive.

Click me (http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/07/us/california-arab-team-mascot/index.html)
That's about like Pekin, IL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pekin,_Illinois). From wikipedia...

The school teams were known as the Pekin Chinks from the 1930s until 1980 when the school administration changed the nickname to the Dragons. The team mascots were a male and female student dressed as Chinese persons wearing traditional Chinese attire. An earlier attempt was made by a visit of Chinese American groups to change the name from Chinks during the 1974–1975 school year; this was voted down by the student body. The event received national attention.

SCClassof93
11-07-2013, 09:30 AM
The real problem is "offended" folks..............why anyone would give another so much power over them to offend...............

ram29jackson
11-07-2013, 01:07 PM
The real problem is "offended" folks..............why anyone would give another so much power over them to offend...............

basically...if the name got changed it will do nothing to advance or help this particular tribe in any way ,shape or form.
The Redskins calling themselves the Redskins has done nothing to oppress or stop or hurt indian history or its advancement of its people in any way. If it happened, when its all over we would go on ignoring Indians as we always have and now they lose a reference point in the process.

its evident the Oneida guy is doing it for his own political gain anyway.

SCClassof93
11-07-2013, 02:00 PM
basically...if the name got changed it will do nothing to advance or help this particular tribe in any way ,shape or form.
The Redskins calling themselves the Redskins has done nothing to oppress or stop or hurt indian history or its advancement of its people in any way. If it happened, when its all over we would go on ignoring Indians as we always have and now they lose a reference point in the process.

its evident the Oneida guy is doing it for his own political gain anyway.

No way!!! People do things for their own gain or money??? Say it ain't so;)

cdj
11-05-2015, 07:26 AM
662257683567898624

Adidas had to find something to do since they won't be making NBA uniforms in a couple years and college teams keep leaving them.

CLW
11-05-2015, 10:36 AM
662257683567898624

Adidas had to find something to do since they won't be making NBA uniforms in a couple years and college teams keep leaving them.

Yep - with the exception of the school that celebrates a "win" over :Duke:

cdj
11-30-2015, 07:26 PM
Not an indian name, but 'Rebels' will stay at UNLV:

UNLV President Len Jessup says the school needs to keep “Rebels” as its nickname after new research concluded it’s not a reference to the Confederacy.

Jessup issued a statement Monday saying the name embodies UNLV’s entrepreneurial spirit. He also said there is overwhelming support for the nickname and the “Hey Reb!” mascot.

Some have called for the name and mascot to be changed, saying the character appears to be a Confederate soldier.

Controversy grew this summer after an apparently racially motivated mass shooting at a Charleston, South Carolina church. Democratic Sen. Harry Reid said in the aftermath that regents should re-examine the Rebel nickname.

A 60-page historical report released this month by UNLV Chief Diversity Officer Rainier Spencer says the origins of the mascot aren’t rooted in the Confederacy.


It must be a rough life to only be concerned about and demanding changes to mascot names and logos.